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Goodbye Jesus

Confessions of an unTrue Scotsman


TheRedneckProfessor

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Perhaps you're right.  Maybe I didn't accept the true doctrine.  Maybe I didn't adhere to the proper instruction, or attend the one holy church.  Maybe I never knew the real jesus; or held the correct belief.

 

Maybe I just never did christianity right.

 

But, you know what?  I did my dead-level best for more than 30 years to serve the lord according to my understanding and ability.  I left for the mission field with $150, a one-way ticket, and a pocketful of faith.  I sacrificed a marriage, gave up a career, lost friends, family, and even a home.  If, after going through all of that, I still didn't get it "right," then I ain't overly interested in ever trying to get it "right" no more.  Because, quite obviously, "right" is too far out of reach to ever be attainable by an average guy like me.  Matter of fact, if going through all of that for jesus still wasn't good enough, then jesus can kiss my lily white ass.

 

I ain't mad at nobody.  Didn't nobody from the church ever use or abuse me more than I'd tolerate or could handle.  I don't even want to sin.  But there comes a time, once I've give my all and ain't got no more to give, when I got to set back and settle up accounts to see what I've got in return.  And, I'll tell you this for free, if a man gives his all and gets nothing in return, he won't keep his body and soul attached to one another for too long.  Like a wise man once told me, "if what you're doing isn't working, you got to do something different."

 

That's why I don't rightly give a damn if you think I never was a true christian.  I know I was truer than you'll ever be and it still wasn't good enough.  But, tell you what, if I make it to hell before you, I'll save you a seat.

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There are many tasks, endeavors and subjects worthy of time...and they have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.

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So I’m not a christian anymore.  How does that prove, or even suggest, that I never really was one to start with?  Does my dad’s retirement mean he was never a True Engineer?  A girl goes to rehab and gets herself clean and sober, so obviously she was never a real alcoholic in the first place?  Tiger Woods was never a real golfer now that he doesn’t hit the links quite as often anymore?

 

 What kind of logic is that?  Just because someone stops doing something doesn't mean they never did it to begin with.  Or never "was" whatever they've stopped "being." That’s nothing short of a straight-up denial of reality and facts.  Surely, if christians have an omniscient god at their disposal they can come up with a better argument than this.

 

 

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And what is the measure of a "true" christian?  By what standard is someone's true-ness measured? The bible?  The doctrine?  That feeling you get in your special place whenever jesus whispers sweet nothings in your ear?  I had all of that, too; and more. 

 

But by the same standard, I was never "true."  How, then, can anyone ever be certain?  If the standard gives false positive as often as it obviously does, then either the standard is too far out of calibration to be reliable, or the standard is simply of no use whatsoever.  Why trust something so faulty?  

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Facts. Nothing bounces off beliefs and quoted verses quite like facts. A bible verse says something, and no matter if it is demonstrably wrong, believers will cling to it as deep truth. I think that is why the current swamp of stupid has grown so damn large in our culture. Believers are used to believing ridiculous fables as "the real truth", and the PT Barnums realized they could make a lot of money selling them more fables. Sadly, then the believers elect other believers to positions of power to force the stupid on the rest of us. That has also been happening for thousands of years. Someone back in the day realized that to counter ex-believers, all they had to do was include a single "They were never really among us", and it worked. 

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     Quit justifying your lives.  Especially to people who don't actually care about you.  Fuck'em.

 

          mwc

 

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16 minutes ago, mwc said:

     Quit justifying your lives.  Especially to people who don't actually care about you.  Fuck'em.

 

          mwc

 

I feel you on that.  The purpose here is not to justify; but, rather to provide counter-arguments and expose flaws in the No True Scotsman fallacy.

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I feel you on that.  The purpose here is not to justify; but, rather to provide counter-arguments and expose flaws in the No True Scotsman fallacy.

     Maybe, but, to steal from Wikipedia:

Quote

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

     So the solution is to get the person making the fallacy to acknowledge that a true xian can actually do the thing they claim is out of bounds.  So, if you're not a true xian because of your church can someone ever go to that church and be a true xian?  If so, then it's not the church.  And so on down the line.  No point trying to cut the whole thing off at the pass until you know where it is and it changes for each xian that comes by.

 

     As far as I'm concerned telling someone that I did this or that and I was a true xian regardless is pointless since they already said those things don't qualify so fall on deaf ears.  I could care less.  From my point of view no one that was Catholic was a true xian.  Full stop.  There was no getting around it.  From the start of time until I stopped believing that there was not a single, solitary person, that was both Catholic and a true xian.  They were not compatible.  So listing off all the things you did that made you a true xian would have been an exercise in futility.  Nowadays, anyone who says they're xian is xian as far as I'm concerned even if it's the craziest thing I could possibly imagine and totally contradicts everything I might thing xianity actually is (like they worship caterpillars or something).  There are now only true xians as far as I'm concerned.  I could care less since the whole thing is self-identified like a favorite color.

 

     The TL;DR here is have fun if you feel this is time better spent than ignoring this fallacy.

 

          mwc

 

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On 3/16/2022 at 7:27 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What kind of logic is that?  Just because someone stops doing something doesn't mean they never did it to begin with.  Or never "was" whatever they've stopped "being." That’s nothing short of a straight-up denial of reality and facts.  Surely, if christians have an omniscient god at their disposal they can come up with a better argument than this.

 

We can throw them an example. Jordon Peterson has gone off his rocker and I saw it coming. He was growing increasingly subjective and emotional in interviews. Despises the communists who he associates with atheism. And now he's all over youtube with this, "I'm no longer atheist," mantra being paraded around by christian sources. 

 

Do these same christians believe that Jordon Peterson never was a true atheist??? 

 

And if they do, then he never converted from anything - no dramatic conversion story can apply.

 

So STFU with the "I used to be atheist," claims. All of them. Every christian that is going around claiming that they used to be atheist and suddenly saw the light and converted to christianity, never were "true atheists" by their own logic. Never really converted. And must be LYING to everyone when they claim that they were truly atheist prior! They must have always believed in the christian god somewhere inside regardless of what they thought or claimed. No change could have happened from truly being atheist to truly being christian. 

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On 3/16/2022 at 4:27 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

So I’m not a christian anymore.  How does that prove, or even suggest, that I never really was one to start with?  Does my dad’s retirement mean he was never a True Engineer?  A girl goes to rehab and gets herself clean and sober, so obviously she was never a real alcoholic in the first place?  Tiger Woods was never a real golfer now that he doesn’t hit the links quite as often anymore?

 

 What kind of logic is that?  Just because someone stops doing something doesn't mean they never did it to begin with.  Or never "was" whatever they've stopped "being." That’s nothing short of a straight-up denial of reality and facts.  Surely, if christians have an omniscient god at their disposal they can come up with a better argument than this.

 

 

 

^^This is a good debate retort. 

 

Jesus hung on the cross then left. Guess he never was a TRUE savior. lol

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The cover picture here is an iconic surf image. World famous.

 

Greg at some point stopped surfing = never was a true surfer?

 

 

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As I age, I have a lot of regrets to look back on.  Just know now, might as well swing the bat, tell people how you feel, or not.  Do good bc it makes you feel good.  Understand none of us are just at any moment.  Eat good food if possible and don't kick the cat if you can help it.  

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Good to see you around again Ed.

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8 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

As I age, I have a lot of regrets to look back on.  Just know now, might as well swing the bat, tell people how you feel, or not.  Do good bc it makes you feel good.  Understand none of us are just at any moment.  Eat good food if possible and don't kick the cat if you can help it.  

No True Scotsman would agree with this.  😆

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10 hours ago, Krowb said:

Good to see you around again Ed.

Thanks!

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yeah, Ed. Glad to see you back. Of all the Christians that have come here, you have provided some of the better logic and related comments. 

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I first came to this forum in 2013 when a Google search told me some in this forum were discussing my cosmological theory and maybe one of my newly released papers. Upon joining, another member, myself, a newbe, and others also continued discussing my theory and other cosmologies. After several pages of conversation with him and others, he said he preferred another cosmology and finally left the discussion. Soon thereafter another member, BAA, (Mark), became aware that I didn't believe in the  BB model. He also know that I became an atheist as a teenager and never suffered during my Christian days or thereafter, and therefore could never understand the ex-Christians here. 

 

Because of my knowledge of all areas of science and math beyond the knowledge of most members, I agreed that when posting theory in the science vs, religion forum, that I would present both the pros and cons of it, not just a one sided opinion. I agreed. He died in a car accident soon thereafter and I have been here ever since trying to uphold my agreement.

 

My confession is that I had a great time as a Christian, but a better time as an atheist -- upon fully studying and understanding the fairy tales of religion.  I still go to different types of churches sometimes to mix with the friendly folk and nearly always have a good time.

 

Now it's time for a funny story. I had been an atheist for more than a decade when, for several years every Friday evening I went to a Chinese Christian home-study group to avoid going to a bar every Friday night, a habit I was trying to break. I met a Chinese woman who invited me to come to her church. So I went, sang the songs from the hymnal, did the requested readings for the group and for maybe a year or longer came back to do the same thing over and over again. The fun started when a married woman asked me in a small group of women what I actually believed. I told her that I don't like tell explain beliefs to a group but that I could tell her personally in private. I think she was afraid there could be a sexual implications with me in private, but even if not, she wouldn't go in private with a single man being a married woman. So she simply said that she couldn't go at that time.

 

I think she told the other women her story so that no one ever asked me again about my personal beliefs, and I continued going there for maybe another year thereafter to stay out of the bars Friiday night.   Maybe it scared her and the other women, but it was all good fun to me.

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19 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

,,,,,,,,,,,don't kick the cat if you can help it.  

 

 

'Kick the a cat' are words and behavior of German origin. The French words and behavior to help the cat sounds much better: 'pet sa pussy' , or more formally 'caresser la chatte'

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