Observing the Christians

[midniterider]

Working with the geriatrics now who attend church. 

 

I remain quiet and destroy their arguments in my head. Satan was brought up a couple times and how he can get into your church via your words. Sounds to me like people have more power than Jesus. It's reminiscent of the satanic panicky type people I went to church with back in the day.

 

It's interesting what these people say. They just make shit up. lol

 

I'll post more as it comes in. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I had a long talk with a building contractor Saturday who has been working next door for months.  I have  thought he was probably some kind of Christian.  (No cussing doing on) He was ranting that God is punishing people because we are "embracing" the homosexuals.  When I told him I didn't see what homosexuality had to do with world problems, that led to more religious discussion.  He belongs to a very small independent group (never told me what they are called)  that seems to have made up their own doctrine.  He doesn't believe in the trinity and thinks the bible has mistakes in it because the Catholics screwed it up (which we agreed on) but he thinks god is punishing the world because of our sins.  

 

He didn't know how to respond when I told him I prayed to God years ago to help me determine the truth about religion, and that eventually led me out of religion.  

[midniterider]

If the bible has mistakes then maybe verses mentioning homosexuality could be incorrect. 

[pantheory]

This is a funny story that I think somewhat relates to the topic, watching religious folk and their thinking.

 

Years ago during the cold war I made most of my money in the field of Engineering. I had a number of contracts  for a period of time, usually a year, sometimes a shorter and sometimes a longer contract. But when I didn't have an Engineering contract, I would do construction contracting work as well as short term scientific work. This work rarely lasted longer than a month. During one stint I was looking for primarily roofing repair jobs which usually would last no longer than a couple of weeks. Much of the work is advertising and selling your services to get the work. I wasn't just the contractor, I usually did some or most of the work myself.

 

I was advertising in a local flyer called the Penny Savor. I would go to the places answering my adds. Upon going to one home, I saw as the door opened much religious material on the walls, statures etc. Things like pictures of a crucified Christ maybe the virgin Mary, don't remember exactly what now, but it was obviously religious so I tried to be careful in my sales pitch concerning my vocabulary and language. Upon making my presentation, the owner had a funny look on his face and seemed apprehensive.

 

At that same time my co-worker dropped some things off the truck requiring clean-up, then swore up a blue streak using the very worst cuss and swear words one could image. It was loud and easy for the owned to hear. Immediately following that the  owner signed the contract saying "you guys really are roofers." I realized then that before that incident he thought that I was some kind of a con-man, but upon hearing the swearwords realized that we were "real roofers," according to his idea of construction workers, and that we could do his job. I've told this story for many years thereafter for many laughs -- look and sound the part if you want the job,

 

 

[TABA]

37 minutes ago, midniterider said:

If the bible has mistakes then maybe verses mentioning homosexuality could be incorrect. 

 
I think this is how liberal Christians approach the Bible: choose which passages they accept and which they don’t.  
 

Of course all Christians are selective in which parts of scripture they follow.  The difference is liberals say the Bible is not infallible, whereas fundamentalists have to insist that the stuff they don’t like doesn’t mean what it actually says.  

[Joshpantera]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:06 PM, TABA said:

 
I think this is how liberal Christians approach the Bible: choose which passages they accept and which they don’t.  
 

Of course all Christians are selective in which parts of scripture they follow.  The difference is liberals say the Bible is not infallible, whereas fundamentalists have to insist that the stuff they don’t like doesn’t mean what it actually says.  

 

None of this stuff is ever thought out very well. That's the main problem. The liberal hasn't thought out very well what the implications of a fallible bible mean to the credibility of the bible. The conservative hasn't thought out very well just how pinned against the ropes they are with literalism.

 

On 4/4/2022 at 3:26 PM, midniterider said:

If the bible has mistakes then maybe verses mentioning homosexuality could be incorrect. 

 

Lately I've been reconsidering all of this against the 21st century idealist philosophy. Consciousness experiencing itself through all metabolizing life forms from across a dissociated boundary.

 

As a spiritual view it's absolutely all inclusive to homosexuals, transgender, everything. How could it not be? If consciousness perceiving itself through eyes of a man wants to change that perception to that of a women (and vise versa), so fucking what? It's a real non-issue through the lens of idealist philosophy.

 

Let consciousness do as it will. And consider it all part of the natural act of existence itself running all of the various lenses of perception that nature so choses. Life is natural. Perception is natural. Consciousness is natural. None of this qualifies as unnatural. And the deeper issue is that regardless of any issues of procreation, what's happening with people wanting to experience their individuated conscious perceptions through a different lens is just as natural as any procreating options. Nature itself is acting all of this out through the existence of intelligent life. It's just an interesting perspective to put a lot of these social issues up against. The philosophy is very libertarian in that way. People have every reason to pursue their own path and pave their own ways. And deserve the freedom to do so! 

 

 

 

 

[alreadyGone]

On 4/4/2022 at 4:06 PM, TABA said:

 
I think this is how liberal Christians approach the Bible: choose which passages they accept and which they don’t.  
 

Of course all Christians are selective in which parts of scripture they follow.  The difference is liberals say the Bible is not infallible, whereas fundamentalists have to insist that the stuff they don’t like doesn’t mean what it actually says.  

 

I've posted here several times...

Over the final few years I was a believer, I began to notice that all truly devout believers with whom I spoke, particularly and especially minsters, will at some point declare "see, that's where the church in America has it wrong... I've read the bible cover to cover, and I can tell you that what it really says is..".

 

I have to believe that if they could all see and hear each other, some would be forced to admit that if the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and if God is true to his promises, then there would not be so much confusion over the scriptures among those who pray and study as much and as fervently as they..

 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

I just started a dayshift position where I work and will probably have more opportunity to observe christians myself. I'll post on this thread anything I find interesting. There is one in particular I want to watch. He is really proud of his native American heritage but at the same time seems to be fairly religious in his conversation. I'm interested to find out if he mixes shamanic teachings with Christian teachings or if he is part of a native American Christian church. If so. What do they believe? Maybe he can tell me. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Good to see you again @DarkBishop.

[nontheistpilgrim]

I've just returned from a week in Malta. It is easy to dismiss all the pomp as ignorance and superstition (and it is). But it is very 'real' and meaningful to so many people. Easter parades with grown men carrying heavy religious icons; Last Supper displays that must have taken days to construct; flags, expensive Baroque churches (beautiful but at what cost?); and so on - It makes me cross.

What makes me smile but feel sad? I recalled that some years ago, when travelling on a bus, we reached the top of a fairly steep hill; I saw a woman cross herself. Last week on the plane returning to UK I sat next to a Maltese woman (who actually seemed quite nervous for much of the flight) cross herself as the engines revved for take-off.

What can you say? It's important to them and if it does no harm to others .... well, one could argue that, of course.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:16 AM, nontheistpilgrim said:

It's important to them and if it does no harm to others .... well, one could argue that, of course.

 

We could probably all argue that LoL .  But arguing very rarely makes a difference. If the world stays in its current state or better for a couple hundred more years. (Meaning that we keep our technology and access to information as we do now or more so) then I think church will keep dwindling. 

 

I feel religion is holding us back so much as a society now. Unfortunately I'll never see what mankind will end up accomplishing when we finally completely break free of religion. But I do like to meditate on the possibilities from time to time. 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

We could probably all argue that LoL .  But arguing very rarely makes a difference. If the world stays in its current state or better for a couple hundred more years. (Meaning that we keep our technology and access to information as we do now or more so) then I think church will keep dwindling. 

 

I feel religion is holding us back so much as a society now. Unfortunately I'll never see what mankind will end up accomplishing when we finally completely break free of religion. But I do like to meditate on the possibilities from time to time. 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I feel religion is holding us back so much as a society now.

 

Yes it is.  I believe the core concept of original sin is a big problem.  See the discussion in the forum, EX-CHRISTIAN LIFE, and the thread, "ex-christian and addiction".

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Well. I am greatly disappointed with the Christian I wanted to observe. He was really into his native American heritage so I hoped he would be different than the classic fundamentalists in my area. That wasn't the case. Once he found out I wasn't Christian he started proselytizing. Well.. no first he started acting like I was an idiot for not believing in the Bible. Even got another Christian to join him in the argument. Which was very one sided since they continually cut me off when I would try to argue some points from my perspective. Later he tried to proselytize. Showing me Jesus memes relating to my situation etc. It spilled over on lunch break later, and then he didn't have his buddy. He had made the comment. "They haven't found the missing link yet. Why are there still monkeys if we came from monkeys". Finally I was able to tell him it wasn't monkeys we came from but other primates and humans evolved from a common ancestor that no longer exists. 

 

I started looking up the human fossil record then and said. "Hey there's your missing link. Oh heres another missing link. Look here.... here is another. He started to get irritated then lol. "

 

Anyway. I was really hoping he was gonna be different but no. Just a classic brainwashed fundy. 

[◊ Krowb ◊]

Thanks for the followup DB.  Lately, I've watching youtube videos on all the science concepts that were never taught in my private, Christian, K-12 school.  The "why are there still monkeys" is timely for me based on my recent video history.  Evolutionary biology is fascinating; though of course, I find a lot of things fascinating. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

51 minutes ago, Krowb said:

Lately, I've watching youtube videos on all the science concepts that were never taught in my private, Christian, K-12 school. 

I was educated in the A Beka curriculum.  My post-highschool understanding of "science" essentially boiled down to "god did it."  Why does water freeze from the top down?  god did it to protect the fish and fries living in the pond.  Why do certain molecules have an affinity toward one another and are capable of forming strong bonds?  god designed them that way to sustain his creation.  Why does splitting an atom create a megaton explosion and unleash immeasurable force and destruction?  god wanted America to be his instrument of judgment against those wicked Japanese civilians in Hiroshima who reject his divine love in order to follow the twisted and distorted philosophies of Shinto and the Buddha.  Lousy Nips.  

 

 

[alreadyGone]

People certainly have the right to believe as they will.

I believe however that any widely-held doctrine which encourages and even requires human beings to deceive themselves or open themselves to being intentionally deceived by others is inherently negative and harmful.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

On 5/2/2022 at 2:28 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I was educated in the A Beka curriculum.

 

Me too!  And here I always envisioned you as an old man.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

32 minutes ago, Krowb said:

 

Me too!  And here I always envisioned you as an old man.

Why does everybody always think that?

[TABA]

5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Why does everybody always think that?

 

[alreadyGone]

I'll offer this additional thought, as a direct response to the original question posed by this thread... "what harm does it do?".

 

Christian believers almost always believe that God or his angels, watch over them and over their family and those close to them. They often pray for God's protection for those they love.

 

I've seen many examples of Christian believers who put themselves at risk in some way, doing that which they choose to do, being where they choose, being at some place or in some situation which puts them at risk, in the firm belief that no harm can come to them, being under 'divine protection'.

 

Then when the crippling accident happens, or the rape, or assault, some situation or occurrence which might otherwise have been prevented by making different choices, a minister will be quick to tell you that God does not owe anyone anything.

 

This is where self-deception (God loves me will not allow harm to come to me) is harmful.

And it's as common as dirt.