Guilt, just like that

[Aibao]

I would like to take a break from reading religious articles and books. The more so because it made me neglect my studies. I repeat the subject properly ... But it will be hard to get back to "normal" now because of the guilt that has awakened in me since I started plunging into Christian themes again ....

 

I feel guilty for the very fact that I have specific interests (e.g. fashion, makeup, clothes, books, science, Asian culture), and according to Christianity only what you do for God and people is of value. At the time when I was a Christian, I tried to meet these requirements. To this day, I remember reading the Bible and listening to sermons all day, and the feeling of guilt did not disappear, but deepened, because the sermons touched upon such problems as: sin, human immorality, inability to do good, selfishness, etc.

 

I got involved in people's affairs and did not refuse anyone (unless it was something immoral), having less and less time for myself. When I wanted to do something I liked, I had to be careful not to let these things take all my attention, which only belonged to Jesus, which made me feel guilty every time and devoted more and more time to religious matters (e.g. reading the Bible, praying, attending not only for services, but also for youth and prayer groups, running a kids club, etc.) The pastor tried to explain to me that I should not take everything literally and relate to myself that I have value in God's eyes, that I can have hobbies and I should be happy about it - but I couldn't, because after a while I heard a sermon about the need to sacrifice and I perceived every plan or dream of mine as selfish and meaningless, worthless.

 

I was exhausted by it all. My mother started to fear for my health, in the church they started to mock me a little: "Are you alive at all? What's wrong?" I was surprised that no one noticed that I was serious about the teachings of Jesus and that despite my reluctance and internal suffering, I was able to give everything to God and even give my life for faith. In fact, I wanted to die at times. Life was becoming a torment - of course years later I learned that this meant that I was not a real Christian, otherwise serving Jesus would be pure joy and fulfillment for me. Sermon after sermon, alternating - one in which God gives you friends, good weather, food, meets your needs and requests, gives you a hobby and glad that you are happy, he died for you so that you could live forever in happiness the other sermon - you do not enough, you will never be perfect for God, God looks at you differently only because of Jesus, without Jesus you cannot do anything, you go to hell, but you do not even know it, because you are blind, not enough time you sacrifice to God, your problem is selfishness etc etc etc ......

 

In the end, I was so confused by these contradictory sermons and my life of constant dedication to others and Jesus (I also add that I am an introvert) that this was the first reason I chose to depart from this religion.
Now, when I read the religious arguments again, all those horrible feelings and memories come back. Oddly, after leaving religion, my guilt returned - in the end, I stopped my hobbies and even my studies. I only do what I need to do: work-related things to support myself. And when I manage to earn more money, I spend it on charities (it's a good thing, I don't regret it, but I feel guilty when I give little or not at all), for things that I don't need (out of desperation or what?) And try not to use of these things because I feel guilty and blame myself for greed).

 

My question: were you guys the same? Because I have met people who are content to serve God. Have you enjoyed your service? If not, how did you deal with the fact that you do what you want with the warning in your head that you will be punished by torture after death? It is impossible to live like this. And uncertainty about the existence of God only makes matters worse because you don't know what to expect after death. Happy is the one who is not born and has no such problems. I'd rather someone murder me with cruelty than go through psychological religious torments .... who didn't? I feel sorry for everyone who is going through or going through this ...

[pantheory]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:25 AM, Aibao said:

I would like to take a break from reading religious articles and books. The more so because it made me neglect my studies. I repeat the subject properly ... But it will be hard to get back to "normal" now because of the guilt that has awakened in me since I started plunging into Christian themes again ....

 

I feel guilty for the very fact that I have specific interests (e.g. fashion, makeup, clothes, books, science, Asian culture), and according to Christianity only what you do for God and people is of value. At the time when I was a Christian, I tried to meet these requirements. To this day, I remember reading the Bible and listening to sermons all day, and the feeling of guilt did not disappear, but deepened, because the sermons touched upon such problems as: sin, human immorality, inability to do good, selfishness, etc.

 

I got involved in people's affairs and did not refuse anyone (unless it was something immoral), having less and less time for myself. When I wanted to do something I liked, I had to be careful not to let these things take all my attention, which only belonged to Jesus, which made me feel guilty every time and devoted more and more time to religious matters (e.g. reading the Bible, praying, attending not only for services, but also for youth and prayer groups, running a kids club, etc.) The pastor tried to explain to me that I should not take everything literally and relate to myself that I have value in God's eyes, that I can have hobbies and I should be happy about it - but I couldn't, because after a while I heard a sermon about the need to sacrifice and I perceived every plan or dream of mine as selfish and meaningless, worthless.

 

I was exhausted by it all. My mother started to fear for my health, in the church they started to mock me a little: "Are you alive at all? What's wrong?" I was surprised that no one noticed that I was serious about the teachings of Jesus and that despite my reluctance and internal suffering, I was able to give everything to God and even give my life for faith. In fact, I wanted to die at times. Life was becoming a torment - of course years later I learned that this meant that I was not a real Christian, otherwise serving Jesus would be pure joy and fulfillment for me. Sermon after sermon, alternating - one in which God gives you friends, good weather, food, meets your needs and requests, gives you a hobby and glad that you are happy, he died for you so that you could live forever in happiness the other sermon - you do not enough, you will never be perfect for God, God looks at you differently only because of Jesus, without Jesus you cannot do anything, you go to hell, but you do not even know it, because you are blind, not enough time you sacrifice to God, your problem is selfishness etc etc etc ......

 

In the end, I was so confused by these contradictory sermons and my life of constant dedication to others and Jesus (I also add that I am an introvert) that this was the first reason I chose to depart from this religion.
Now, when I read the religious arguments again, all those horrible feelings and memories come back. Oddly, after leaving religion, my guilt returned - in the end, I stopped my hobbies and even my studies. I only do what I need to do: work-related things to support myself. And when I manage to earn more money, I spend it on charities (it's a good thing, I don't regret it, but I feel guilty when I give little or not at all), for things that I don't need (out of desperation or what?) And try not to use of these things because I feel guilty and blame myself for greed).

 

My question: were you guys the same? Because I have met people who are content to serve God. Have you enjoyed your service? If not, how did you deal with the fact that you do what you want with the warning in your head that you will be punished by torture after death? It is impossible to live like this. And uncertainty about the existence of God only makes matters worse because you don't know what to expect after death. Happy is the one who is not born and has no such problems. I'd rather someone murder me with cruelty than go through psychological religious torments .... who didn't? I feel sorry for everyone who is going through or going through this ...

 

Albao, I'm going to give you some advice as a person who knows how to be generally happy, Of course there will always be diversions such as me worrying about my adult kids, their happiness and success, but they too are usually happy because that was how they were raised. As an atheist, I have my own morals, They start by following the laws of the land, similar to what Jesus said according to the Bible: " render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's."

 

Follow the laws of the land, pay taxes, etc.,  which is easy to do  in the US and many countries where the government generally represents the majority of the people of that country.  Beyond that I preach that one should develop worthy goals that are somewhat flexible. Shoot high. Your highest goal should be to achieve your greatest potential that you believe is achievable, which should also include trying to help family members reach their own goals when possible, helping friends, and others etc. 

 

Hobbies are great for happiness sake,  but they should not take away from the pursuit of your goals. As a young adult, you should concentrate on your education and possible future profession. Lofty professions could be a doctor, nurse, teacher, social worker etc. Any profession that involves a service to others is good for your self worth when you take pride in your work.  Jesus was a carpenter, and if he really existed, and was a good man according to the Bible, then one would expect he took pride in his carpentry work also, as well as his preaching. Providing quality or less expensive goods and services for others, can help others be happy, and make you happy too if your intent is to do your best work, as well as making necessary money.  If you finally decide religion is your major goal, then be a big part of the many good things done in the name of religion, not the contentious details of it.

 

Spend time on yourself and what makes you happy: fashion, makeup, clothes, reading books, science, Asian culture, sex, making money, etc, but don't develop an all-consuming love for any of these that could stop you from your primary goal. Using Illegal drugs is a selfish pursuit that is also very risky as to happiness in the long run, so they should be avoided in the first place or stopped in the name of wisdom. It really doesn't mater much about what you did or didn't do  in the past. If one does not continue making obviously foolish decisions and mistakes, your fearfulness in general will subside. The ultimate key here is:  by taking your major attention away from yourself by seriously trying to help others, you will make more and better friends, family members, friends, a significant other, etc  In time any guilt will fade and you will be at your happiest and conscience-free state-of-mind. Once one graduates to this state of mind, few if any will ever be fearful of an afterlife.

 

 

[Aibao]

On 4/17/2022 at 10:54 PM, pantheory said:

The ultimate key here is:  by taking your major attention away from yourself by seriously trying to help others, you will make more and better friends, family members, friends, a significant other, etc  In time any guilt will fade and you will be at your happiest and conscience-free state-of-mind. Once one graduates to this state of mind, few if any will ever be fearful of an afterlife.

 

 

Thank you for your suggestion and advice, unfortunately I'm the complete opposite. I don't like to be involved in social matters, so the professions you mentioned are difficult for me. My mother was a nurse - she repeatedly reminded me not to try this profession, although it may of course work for some, but my mother had a tendency to experience the patient's pain and suffering so deeply that at home she was emotionally exhausted and she cried, besides then she worked in a heavy ward where people were lying and in a coma. She had to undergo surgery from lifting the patients. But okay, there are people who like this profession and I admire it, but it's not for me. So if I could have a job unrelated to people, I feel condemned and guilty again .... I was actually distracting myself and trying not to focus on myself when I was a believer - I felt guilty when I wanted to do something for myself or show some form of love for myself and it was then that I was unhappy .... only then did I start to read a lot about psychology and the importance of self-love and self-respect. Yes, I love to be alone with myself, sometimes I meet my friends, but now, when I am stuck in religious problems, I feel guilty, even without religion - because secular ideals are similar to religious ideals: it is also serving people, which I don't like, I have enough since I burned out as a Christian, and in those days I had the impression that people were already using me for everything, because my job is to serve people. I should not admit to such things here (I feel like a confession, maybe someone will start to perceive me negatively, but I want to be honest) the more that I receive help from you, and this is it - if someone needed such help from me ( consolation, giving advice), I am able to do it, e.g. recently a friend confided in me about his problems, we wrote texts almost every day, in the end I managed to console him enough to make a specific decision. Similarly with my friend - I could listen to her troubles for a long time, we met and I felt good that she felt better when she could confide in me. I also like giving people gifts and seeing them happy, but I can't imagine working with people or that people or doing something for others or not doing it affect my value - although that's actually what it is ... But I can't imagine working as someone type social worker. I've always wanted to be a translator, but it's a difficult path, I don't know how long I'll keep trying .. Maybe there's something wrong with me, I'm selfish, because I can't do what I should: I don't fit anywhere, neither in religion nor in this world. ..but thank you for your answer about me, I can see that everyone is trying to speak to me, but it is so hard for me to understand anything. I can only ask why are you guided in your life by Christian ideas if you are a non-believer? Finally, you mentioned the lack of fear of the afterlife if you live by certain ideals. But you're an unbeliever, aren't you? So why live by such ideals (unless they are your own ideals and your value system, not imposed by religion)? Are you subconsciously also afraid that there may be a hell? This is what I mean, just in case you have to live like this, because maybe if I don't live like this, I will go to hell ... and living in such uncertainty is torture for me, because if I break my rule (e.g. I force myself to work as a social worker, to avoid hell just in case, but then I will change my career to a completely different job, not related to people), I may already have concerns that I will end up in hell and feel guilty just like in religion. This is my point of view, but maybe I misunderstood you so sorry and thank you for your answer.

[pantheory]

Albao,

 

Almost any kind of profession you might choose requires education and training. Both involve social interactions. As you know, the longer you go to a college or university in a technical field, the more money you will make. You should look for a type of employment that you think you would really  like. One where the demand for your services will be high. Eventually you might get married, if so, social skills will also be important.

 

If you don't think you have good social skills, you can read up on it and start practicing it as part of your beginning education. In my opinion the only way you or most anyone will ever be happy is to learn acceptable social skills and take attention away from oneself to some extent developing friends and becoming familiar with social-norm behavior with the kind of people you want to be with and be like.

 

I promise, you will be happier when you take more interest in other people, friends, maybe a club, group, society etc.. Take online tests of you aptitudes and personality. If you like education and studying, one of the highest paying and most rewarding fields today is the medical field, like your mother. Medical research, for instance, requires little social interaction. This field, like accounting, is for people who work well alone. Ask your mother's advice concerning your desires, skills, and personality, Tell her the kind of job you may want to have, then ask for her opinion. There are countless professions and jobs out there.  I'm sure there will be some that you may read about that will sound interesting to you.

 

Much of your self testing and research can be done online. Once you have ideas concerning what kind of job or profession you might want to consider, then you could make a plan and look for guidance. Nearly all schools have guidance counselors. There are also trade schools and education that you might be interested in.  Part of any education is to learn to fit into society and work with others.

 

Hopefully you may want to go to college (university) where you could meet a person with similar, non-conflicting interests and goals to share your life with -- and maybe get married and have children someday.

 

Stay completely away from illegal drugs. The downside from drugs lead many to increased fears, paranoia, permanent physical and mental problems, or worse.

 

Of course you must be confident in your abilities to achieve your goals, and must put a great effort into your education.  But  For you to be much happier, you will have to take some attention away from yourself and learn to love and care for others also. With your education, work etc.,  and the welfare of others on your mind, your fears about religion and hell will fade away -- and happiness will take its place. Trust me.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[pantheory]

22 hours ago, Aibao said:

 ....I can only ask why are you guided in your life by Christian ideas if you are a non-believer? Finally, you mentioned the lack of fear of the afterlife if you live by certain ideals. But you're an unbeliever, aren't you? So why live by such ideals (unless they are your own ideals and your value system, not imposed by religion)? Are you subconsciously also afraid that there may be a hell? This is what I mean, just in case you have to live like this, because maybe if I don't live like this, I will go to hell ... and living in such uncertainty is torture for me, because if I break my rule (e.g. I force myself to work as a social worker, to avoid hell just in case, but then I will change my career to a completely different job, not related to people), I may already have concerns that I will end up in hell and feel guilty just like in religion. This is my point of view, but maybe I misunderstood you so sorry and thank you for your answer.

 

 

Hi Albao,

Yes, I am a confirmed atheist. But I have nothing at all against religion. I think of all religions like Greek mythology, something of humor. I would bet my immortal soul (which is a joke to me) against a six pack of beer that there is no God, no heaven and no hell. I think such religious beliefs are totally ridiculous fairy tails, for the purpose of following family-belief tradition. So obviously, my rules of life are totally separate from religion. Because of my education, I understand and realize that humans are just another animal, a member of the biological Family the Great Apes. I have no uncertainty concerning atheism, but also realize the possibly that some academic teachings can also be wrong, not only religions.

For those who keep learning truths of  a better life, luck will follow Like everybody else in society, I must live by its rules and learn from others. Since I live in the US, I first pay attention to the laws of the land. In a democracy the people, or their representatives, make the rules (the laws) which I try to follow since I don't particularly like to pay fines or go to jail, although I've been there more than once. Like countless others, I've learned pretty good social skills and have a "sense of humor" that I continually work on. Making others and myself laugh is a lot of fun for me and others -- which I consider part of my social-skills. I am very friendly to almost everyone including complete strangers. I am also one of the leaders of a local charity. Learning to be happy might also be considered a social skill, since few can be really happy alone. I am a retired scientist who still continuously works long days, weeks, or even months totally alone --never talking to anyone. I can also sometimes by the life of the party with great ease. But socializing skills, for me, was something learned. My morals are similar to the society where I was raised with a few exceptions I like the golden rule and think of it regularly, but I live by the negative golden rule which says " Don't do unto others as you would not want them to do unto you"

You should learn your own way. Make your own rules and morals for yourself in accord with the society you live in. One of the most important things to learn concerning others is to feel empathy for them. You don't have to ask too much of yourself or be a social worker to make new friends, to be a better friend, to be better with your family, or help others if you can. If you start thinking of others as much as you think of fallacious ideas of an afterlife. your life will be much happier and your fears will subside. Try it, what do you have to lose other than fear, apprehension, and dissatisfaction ?

 

 

[Aibao]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:40 PM, pantheory said:

 

Hi Albao,

Yes, I am a confirmed atheist. But I have nothing at all against religion. I think of all religions like Greek mythology, something of humor. I would bet my immortal soul (which is a joke to me) against a six pack of beer that there is no God, no heaven and no hell. I think such religious beliefs are totally ridiculous fairy tails, for the purpose of following family-belief tradition. So obviously, my rules of life are totally separate from religion. Because of my education, I understand and realize that humans are just another animal, a member of the biological Family the Great Apes. I have no uncertainty concerning atheism, but also realize the possibly that some academic teachings can also be wrong, not only religions.

For those who keep learning truths of  a better life, luck will follow Like everybody else in society, I must live by its rules and learn from others. Since I live in the US, I first pay attention to the laws of the land. In a democracy the people, or their representatives, make the rules (the laws) which I try to follow since I don't particularly like to pay fines or go to jail, although I've been there more than once. Like countless others, I've learned pretty good social skills and have a "sense of humor" that I continually work on. Making others and myself laugh is a lot of fun for me and others -- which I consider part of my social-skills. I am very friendly to almost everyone including complete strangers. I am also one of the leaders of a local charity. Learning to be happy might also be considered a social skill, since few can be really happy alone. I am a retired scientist who still continuously works long days, weeks, or even months totally alone --never talking to anyone. I can also sometimes by the life of the party with great ease. But socializing skills, for me, was something learned. My morals are similar to the society where I was raised with a few exceptions I like the golden rule and think of it regularly, but I live by the negative golden rule which says " Don't do unto others as you would not want them to do unto you"

You should learn your own way. Make your own rules and morals for yourself in accord with the society you live in. One of the most important things to learn concerning others is to feel empathy for them. You don't have to ask too much of yourself or be a social worker to make new friends, to be a better friend, to be better with your family, or help others if you can. If you start thinking of others as much as you think of fallacious ideas of an afterlife. your life will be much happier and your fears will subside. Try it, what do you have to lose other than fear, apprehension, and dissatisfaction ?

 

 

Now I understand your answers better. Thank you for the explanation and tips: this is a big problem how to live again after leaving religion, because everything in secular life begins to feel guilty (in fact, I even found a question on Quora like: is beauty, wealth and power a sin?) numerous answers such as: no, but you cannot put it in first place before God, because it will be an idol then - but somewhere in Paul's letter (? I don't remember well) it is written not to even do what may lead us to sin - it is better not to get rich, not to look good, not to pursue a high position at work, etc., etc. - as a result, I did it (I tried not to do things that I like and give me pleasure, instead The Bible and in prayer - it didn't end well for me, I started to loathe God even). I think so sometimes, if people did not make "idols", i.e. a scientist with passion would not devote himself to science, where would the world be today? Everyone from 2,000 years on would only have to pray and read the Bible and possibly do something for society, but in such a way that it would be in harmony with God and not be an idol.

[pantheory]

2 hours ago, Aibao said:

Now I understand your answers better. Thank you for the explanation and tips: this is a big problem how to live again after leaving religion, because everything in secular life begins to feel guilty (in fact, I even found a question on Quora like: is beauty, wealth and power a sin?) numerous answers such as: no, but you cannot put it in first place before God, because it will be an idol then - but somewhere in Paul's letter (? I don't remember well) it is written not to even do what may lead us to sin - it is better not to get rich, not to look good, not to pursue a high position at work, etc., etc. - as a result, I did it (I tried not to do things that I like and give me pleasure, instead The Bible and in prayer - it didn't end well for me, I started to loathe God even). I think so sometimes, if people did not make "idols", i.e. a scientist with passion would not devote himself to science, where would the world be today? Everyone from 2,000 years on would only have to pray and read the Bible and possibly do something for society, but in such a way that it would be in harmony with God and not be an idol.

 

Glad to hear from you again Albao. I know you are young, and because of this you are just starting out in life. If you become an atheist like me you can make up your own rules of life and morals. For me, my morals are not much different from christian morals. My main credo is to follow the laws of the land, and "don't do unto others as you would not want them to do unto you." Christianity has sex morals, many of which I don't believe or follow. For me, masturbation is great for both men and women. fornication is great if both parties are careful and seriously consider that no one will get hurt. Always use birth control to protect both parties, and don't take chances because usually it will be the woman who gets hurt more. I don't believe in it for myself, but homosexuality in private is not my interest or concern. I don't believe that sex with a minor or married person is moral for me. But as an atheist you can make up your own moral rules that you know you can follow and live by. I hope that your rules will try not to hurt anyone including yourself.

 

I don't think guilt should ever be part of your life unless you intentionally hurt someone.  And forget all those heaven and Hell stories that were invented primarily for children and weak minded folk IMHO.

 

all the best of luck for your future, pantheory

[Aibao]

Thank you