Babies make moral judgments

[Orbit]

Theists often say God or religion is the basis for morality. New research suggests morality is inborn.

 

"A stare down is a much less developed form of punishment, but if the authors are right, it could be the earliest sign of a moral compass in children, one that is possibly more inherent than learned."

 

Article here: https://www.sciencealert.com/babies-judge-and-punish-unfair-social-behavior-at-a-young-age-study-finds

[☆ pantheory ☆]

6 hours ago, Orbit said:

Theists often say God or religion is the basis for morality. New research suggests morality is inborn.

 

"A stare down is a much less developed form of punishment, but if the authors are right, it could be the earliest sign of a moral compass in children, one that is possibly more inherent than learned."

 

Article here: https://www.sciencealert.com/babies-judge-and-punish-unfair-social-behavior-at-a-young-age-study-finds

 

Babies can be judgemental (moral), but I think they learn it from their mom's and their surrounding culture since different cultures have completely different morals than others. Think of past cultures of cannibalism and slave-based cultures such as Sparta, war-based cultures, Gods of war, Honor-killing cultures, killing and torture based cultures, human sacrifice cultures, baby sacrifice cultures, etc. In biology man is simply a social mammal like chimps, dogs, elephants, dolphins, etc. For such pack animals the understanding and care for others of your same kind can be important. The understanding of some of this likely has a genetic basis in humans and other pack animals. 

[walterpthefirst]

This will be seized upon by theists who assert that what happened in Eden is historical fact.

 

Adam and Eve were created without a moral compass and acquired one upon tasting the fruit of the forbidden tree.

 

So, of course all babies have a moral compass.

 

 

But, if Adam and Eve had no moral compass, how could god expect them to choose to do good and not eat from that tree?

 

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

It appears, according to the Genesis mythology, that Adam and Eve were never children.  They were created as adults.  

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, sdelsolray said:

It appears, according to the Genesis mythology, that Adam and Eve were never children.  They were created as adults.  

 

Quite so.

 

My point was, that because Adam and Eve acquired a moral compass and because everyone is descended from them, everyone therefore has a moral compass.

 

Including babies, because they too are made in god's spiritual image, just as Adam and Eve were.

 

Which is why Christians who hold to a literal reading of scripture will seize upon the ScienceAlert article as confirming the Eden narrative as historical fact.

 

My apologies for not being clearer.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[duderonomy]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, walterpthefirst said:

This will be seized upon by theists who assert that what happened in Eden is historical fact.

 

Adam and Eve were created without a moral compass and acquired one upon tasting the fruit of the forbidden tree.

 

So, of course all babies have a moral compass.

 

 

But, if Adam and Eve had no moral compass, how could god expect them to choose to do good and not eat from that tree?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this about science v. religion or about the social construct of a so called "moral compass"?

 

How do you know what God 'expected' Adam and Eve to do?

 

Edited to add: Just thickening the soup a little.

[walterpthefirst]

I was playing devil's advocate, Duderonomy.

 

Taking the position of the (biblical literalist) theists who would view what Orbit posted as confirmation about their beliefs.  Nothing to do with science vs religion.  And if the words moral compass are contentious, they can just be swapped for knowing right (good) from wrong (evil).  According to scripture Adam and Eve were created unable to know right from wrong, but acquired the knowledge of these things when they tasted the forbidden fruit.  And since (according to scripture) we are all descended from Adam and Eve, of course babies have know right from wrong.

 

My question about what god was expecting of Adam and Eve was rhetorical.

 

Being all knowing, god knew what they would do before he created them.  But that wasn't really my point.  My point was, why would god set up a test for his innocent children that required them to know right from wrong and then create them without the ability to know right from wrong and pass the test?  Isn't that just setting them up to fail?

 

And why would god allow a powerful angel (Satan) to influence the outcome of the test when god knew beforehand that he would do this?  The argument that god couldn't intercede simply is contradicted by scripture.  

 

2 Peter 2 : 4

 

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

 

When Satan sinned in heaven he was cast out and allowed to enter Eden and tempt Eve.  So why didn't didn't god immediately put him with the other angels in chains of darkness, where he could cause no trouble?  God had the power and the foreknowledge to do keep Satan out of Eden, but he didn't.  Perhaps god was setting them up to fail?

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

[☆ pantheory ☆]

1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said:

I was playing devil's advocate, Duderonomy.

 

Taking the position of the (biblical literalist) theists who would view what Orbit posted as confirmation about their beliefs.  Nothing to do with science vs religion.  And if the words moral compass are contentious, they can just be swapped for knowing right (good) from wrong (evil).  According to scripture Adam and Eve were created unable to know right from wrong, but acquired the knowledge of these things when they tasted the forbidden fruit.  And since (according to scripture) we are all descended from Adam and Eve, of course babies have know right from wrong.

 

My question about what god was expecting of Adam and Eve was rhetorical.

 

Being all knowing, god knew what they would do before he created them.  But that wasn't really my point.  My point was, why would god set up a test for his innocent children that required them to know right from wrong and then create them without the ability to know right from wrong and pass the test?  Isn't that just setting them up to fail?

 

And why would god allow a powerful angel (Satan) to influence the outcome of the test when god knew beforehand that he would do this?  The argument that god couldn't intercede simply is contradicted by scripture.  

 

2 Peter 2 : 4

 

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

 

When Satan sinned in heaven he was cast out and allowed to enter Eden and tempt Eve.  So why didn't didn't god immediately put him with the other angels in chains of darkness, where he could cause no trouble?  God had the power and the foreknowledge to do keep Satan out of Eden, but he didn't.  Perhaps god was setting them up to fail?

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

 

Bible scolers have read between the lines of Genesis sayin that God liked his creation of Eve and wanted to check out the possibilities, but Satan also saw his chance when God was nappin and Adam was busy checkin out some stuff.

 

The first born Cain, knew nothin of moral judgement, but the second born Abel became a tender of Sheep, and became good at moral judgements as a baby.

[duderonomy]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:28 PM, Orbit said:

New research suggests

 

Old research asserts.

[duderonomy]

"New research suggests morality is inborn."  This sounds a lot like the Apostle Paul in the first couple chapters of Romans.

 

Now that I think of it, thanks for doing my work for me Orbit if we are going to give credit to those that encourage thought and eschew indoctrination. 

 

[duderonomy]

On 7/25/2022 at 1:23 PM, pantheory said:

 

Bible scolers have read between the lines of Genesis sayin that God liked his creation of Eve and wanted to check out the possibilities, but Satan also saw his chance when God was nappin and Adam was busy checkin out some stuff.

 

The first born Cain, knew nothin of moral judgement, but the second born Abel became a tender of Sheep, and became good at moral judgements as a baby.

 

 

Well that's clear as mud, isn't it.

[☆ pantheory ☆]

14 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

Well that's clear as mud, isn't it.

 

I was hoping for a "ha ha ha" while staying on topic. I know it was as clear as mud but was "praying" that somebody would think that it was funny 

[duderonomy]

8 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

I was hoping for a "ha ha ha" while staying on topic. I know it was as clear as mud but was "praying" that somebody would think that it was funny 

 

 

The Almighty always answers "prayers" pantheory.  They say it's either Yes, No, or Wait.  I hope you share your testimony when your prayer is answered!

[☆ pantheory ☆]

16 hours ago, duderonomy said:

 

The Almighty always answers "prayers" pantheory.  They say it's either Yes, No, or Wait.  I hope you share your testimony when your prayer is answered!

 

If you believe in religion that's fine. But I haven't prayed for 63 years. That was the last time I was a Christian. Being an agnostic is fine IMO, And I'm certainly not against religion either; Some of the finest folk in the world are religious. But all religions are exactly the same as Greek mythology or the belief in Santa Clause to me. There is neither proof nor logic for any of it IMHO.  Whatever you really believe, cheers

[duderonomy]

7 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

If you believe in religion that's fine. But I haven't prayed for 63 years. That was the last time I was a Christian. Being an agnostic is fine IMO, And I'm certainly not against religion either; Some of the finest folk in the world are religious. But all religions are exactly the same as Greek mythology or the belief in Santa Clause to me. There is neither proof nor logic for any of it IMHO.  Whatever you really believe, cheers

 

 

I think we spoke past each other.  Cheers to you as well!

[☆ pantheory ☆]

9 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

 

 

I think we spoke past each other.  Cheers to you as well!

 

Sorry, I'm a little dull witted in perceiving that kind of stuff sir.   cheers again