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Goodbye Jesus

Suffering for the Sins of the World


TheRedneckProfessor

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43 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

You keep trying to pin my anger on some alleged failure in comprehension and then applying that to some relative standard.  And then to boot, adding authority to your stance.  

 

For example, here you are promoting your ability to control your position in the face of evil, yet evil is a bad thing?  Not to mention the lack of Bible literacy.  Let me share as I have before.  My dear ole father shared this same kind of moronic intellectualism that creates the hostility that I have for those that use the device.  It's a trigger.  I won't deny that, and should work to correct, but I wouldn't be too proud that you think that mechanism is something to behold.  

I ain't trying to pin a god damn thing on you, son.  YOU attacked me.  I'm just trying to help you understand why.  And if our intellectualism is such a trigger for you, why do you keep trying to refute it with your own, emotionally modified, intellectualism?

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As someone participating in this thread I'd just like to ask if the label of intellectualism is being applied to me in any way?

 

If that label relates only to the content of the Edgarcito - Professor dialogue then please forgive this intrusion and carry on.

 

Just seeking a little clarity.

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

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3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I ain't trying to pin a god damn thing on you, son.  YOU attacked me.  I'm just trying to help you understand why.  And if our intellectualism is such a trigger for you, why do you keep trying to refute it with your own, emotionally modified, intellectualism?

I guess I just don't understand why, when we are speaking of why, that maybe evil was placed in the path of humanity to teach and understand the feeling of overcoming it.  Instead, you just seem adamant and fixed that placing evil there in the first place was/is not worth any of your consideration or respect because you are permanently sure in your authority. 

 

Your "why" has value, but not the one you're placing on it.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

I guess I just don't understand why, when we are speaking of why, that maybe evil was placed in the path of humanity to teach and understand the feeling of overcoming it.  Instead, you just seem adamant and fixed that placing evil there in the first place was/is not worth any of your consideration or respect because you are permanently sure in your authority. 

 

Your "why" has value, but not the one you're placing on it.  

 

 

None of this has anything to do with why you would rather attack my character than defend your god.  It is a misdirect, nothing more.

 

Are you sure you understand your behavior and the motivation behind it?

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35 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

None of this has anything to do with why you would rather attack my character than defend your god.  It is a misdirect, nothing more.

 

Are you sure you understand your behavior and the motivation behind it?

My father's arguments were arrogant and authoritative.  Yours in this case, is the same.  Your assumptions are likely not as astute as you would have yourself believe.

 

And thrusting that on someone with arrogance is not the best character option imo.  In that, it reminds me, triggers my "don't do that, it hurts me"/ defensive approach.  

 

I truthfully don't agree with belittling someone with that demeaning argumentative style, yet I employ that occasionally to make the offender consider their offense.  More times than not now, I understand the basis and choose whether I wish to use it, but sometimes not.  Every now and then, I just get tired of people who can't reason very well and let them know they can't.  I won't name names.

 

Hoping this satisfies your inquiry.  

 

But yeah, I don't believe it's good character on your part and also believe I understand why the way I react to it.  Unless you have a differing opinion.

 

  

 

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On 9/6/2022 at 3:18 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I choose my own integrity over this kind of abuse.

 

59 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

My father's arguments were arrogant and authoritative.  Yours in this case, is the same.  Your assumptions are likely not as astute as you would have yourself believe.

It's interesting that this was the statement that set you off.  Do you really find personal integrity to be arrogant and authoritative?  Or are you projecting subconscious insecurities of your own?  Is there, perhaps, something deeper within your own self that finds another person's integrity offensive?

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23 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

It's interesting that this was the statement that set you off.  Do you really find personal integrity to be arrogant and authoritative?  Or are you projecting subconscious insecurities of your own?  Is there, perhaps, something deeper within your own self that finds another person's integrity offensive?

You may believe at this point in your life that it’s personal integrity.  I see your stance as immature…as in, not having attained the wisdom yet.  I’m sure I have insecurities… doesn’t everyone.  My own integrity fails but I don’t believe I have an axe to grind due to someone displaying integrity.  But I do find my perception of integrity not in the form you believe you have displayed.  Because God created evil makes God evil and evil is bad and that’s the ONLY logical answer and you’re an idiot to believe otherwise… and my integrity and resolve say so.  True integrity makes room for others “ integrity “.  Do better.

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59 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

You may believe at this point in your life that it’s personal integrity.  I see your stance as immature…as in, not having attained the wisdom yet.  I’m sure I have insecurities… doesn’t everyone.  My own integrity fails but I don’t believe I have an axe to grind due to someone displaying integrity.  But I do find my perception of integrity not in the form you believe you have displayed.  Because God created evil makes God evil and evil is bad and that’s the ONLY logical answer and you’re an idiot to believe otherwise… and my integrity and resolve say so.  True integrity makes room for others “ integrity “.  Do better.

So, you'd still rather attack me than defend god.  And you still have no idea why...

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29 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

So, you'd still rather attack me than defend god.  And you still have no idea why...

Why what, that God uses evil? 

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12 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Pardon the intrusion sir, carry on....

 

Not at all!  In fact I didn't realize that you and the Prof had become so close in my recent absence.

 

Totally my bad Christian for missing the personal minutiae that the Gospel obviously requires be explained to lost sheep.

 

It is you that must carry on!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Why what, that God uses evil? 

No.

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43 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No.

You’re not going to hurt my feelings for god's sake.  Say what you need to say.  

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56 minutes ago, duderonomy said:

 

Not at all!  In fact I didn't realize that you and the Prof had become so close in my recent absence.

 

Totally my bad Christian for missing the personal minutiae that the Gospel obviously requires be explained to lost sheep.

 

It is you that must carry on!

 

 

Lol, well fuck, Walter is bitching bc the gospel is limited in its spread, the Prof can’t see or understand that evil might be used as a test from the numerous scriptures that describe so, so indeed sir, I must play Johnny fkn Appleseed and plant another few trees of knowledge….but dammit, they know, just ask them.

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5 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Lol, well fuck, Walter is bitching bc the gospel is limited in its spread, the Prof can’t see or understand that evil might be used as a test from the numerous scriptures that describe so, so indeed sir, I must play Johnny fkn Appleseed and plant another few trees of knowledge….but dammit, they know, just ask them.

 

Perhaps you'd like to step into the shoes of those who died before the gospel reached them, Ed?

 

And then tell us if you think god's test was fair on you?

 

And tell us if you understood that you were being tested by god?

 

And also tell us what kind of choice you ever had?

 

Would you do that please?

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8 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

You’re not going to hurt my feelings for god's sake.  Say what you need to say.  

If I was worried about hurting your feelings I'd have done it already. 

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Do you really imagine yourself as planting seeds here, @Edgarcito?  This thread alone demonstrates otherwise, without even looking at the other threads in which you've involved yourself over the years.  And, so far in this thread, you've done nothing more than 1. attack my character and 2. offer the lame excuse that god uses evil to teach us a lesson.  So, lets discuss the problems with your actions.

 

1.  Attacking me does nothing to justify your god's indifference to the suffering of the world.

  • My personal integrity has nothing to do with god's indifference
  • Whether I am arrogant or not has nothing to do with god allowing evil
  • The intellectual view I have taken on since leaving emotionally-driven, faith-based delusion has nothing to do with god allowing children to starve to death
  • Whether I am angry or not does not absolve your god for creating evil, calling it "good", and unleashing it upon humanity
  • By your own worldview, I am fallen, sinful, and finite; thus, constrained by such limitations, I can do little to alleviate the suffering of the world (though I do what I can).  god is not constrained by ANY of these limitations; so what's his excuse?
  • You'd rather attack me than defend god precisely because you know there is no defense for a being who has the power to prevent evil but refuses to do so.

2.  god allows evil to teach us a lesson (maybe)

  • Sure, there are scriptures that would support this idea; but there are also scriptures that would support the idea that god is just a dick who enjoys letting people suffer.
  • What do you presume god is trying to teach the 10-year-old girl sold into sexual slavery and raped on a daily basis?
  • What lesson do you presume god has for the little boy starving to death?
  • god presents himself as an all-loving heavenly father; but his refusal to intervene in the suffering of the world demonstrates that this is a lie.  A loving father would do anything he could to prevent his children from suffering.
  • god presents himself as "good"; but his refusal to prevent evil always and in every way favors those who commit evil, never the innocent who suffer from it.  god's committed favoritism toward evil demonstrates that god himself is evil.
  • god's ways are not our ways and he's mysterious and shit.  No.  There is nothing mysterious about having the ability to prevent evil but refusing to do so.  It only seems mysterious because you're unwilling to admit that god is just a dick.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I really am an asshole and that god really is just teaching us a lesson.  When I look at the world and see the suffering of people who did nothing to deserve it, and consider that they are just collateral damage because god has decided that a select few deserve to overcome evil while the majority suffer, am I really being an asshole to reject such an elitist, narcissistic, and indifferent ambivalence toward starving children?  Even if I were an asshole, my own integrity (which, per your definition, should make room for others) would compel me to take the side of the suffering innocents and rail against the injustice of the sadistic monster who had the power to prevent it but refused to do so.

 

So, how exactly has your behavior in this thread planted any seeds?  How have you even come close to justifying the evil god allows in this world?  You've done nothing but display your own delusion and ignorance.  And you had the fucking gall to call me arrogant?

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Do you really imagine yourself as planting seeds here, @Edgarcito?  This thread alone demonstrates otherwise, without even looking at the other threads in which you've involved yourself over the years.  And, so far in this thread, you've done nothing more than 1. attack my character and 2. offer the lame excuse that god uses evil to teach us a lesson.  So, lets discuss the problems with your actions.

 

1.  Attacking me does nothing to justify your god's indifference to the suffering of the world.

  • My personal integrity has nothing to do with god's indifference
  • Whether I am arrogant or not has nothing to do with god allowing evil
  • The intellectual view I have taken on since leaving emotionally-driven, faith-based delusion has nothing to do with god allowing children to starve to death
  • Whether I am angry or not does not absolve your god for creating evil, calling it "good", and unleashing it upon humanity
  • By your own worldview, I am fallen, sinful, and finite; thus, constrained by such limitations, I can do little to alleviate the suffering of the world (though I do what I can).  god is not constrained by ANY of these limitations; so what's his excuse?
  • You'd rather attack me than defend god precisely because you know there is no defense for a being who has the power to prevent evil but refuses to do so.

2.  god allows evil to teach us a lesson (maybe)

  • Sure, there are scriptures that would support this idea; but there are also scriptures that would support the idea that god is just a dick who enjoys letting people suffer.
  • What do you presume god is trying to teach the 10-year-old girl sold into sexual slavery and raped on a daily basis?
  • What lesson do you presume god has for the little boy starving to death?
  • god presents himself as an all-loving heavenly father; but his refusal to intervene in the suffering of the world demonstrates that this is a lie.  A loving father would do anything he could to prevent his children from suffering.
  • god presents himself as "good"; but his refusal to prevent evil always and in every way favors those who commit evil, never the innocent who suffer from it.  god's committed favoritism toward evil demonstrates that god himself is evil.
  • god's ways are not our ways and he's mysterious and shit.  No.  There is nothing mysterious about having the ability to prevent evil but refusing to do so.  It only seems mysterious because you're unwilling to admit that god is just a dick.

For the sake of argument, let's say that I really am an asshole and that god really is just teaching us a lesson.  When I look at the world and see the suffering of people who did nothing to deserve it, and consider that they are just collateral damage because god has decided that a select few deserve to overcome evil while the majority suffer, am I really being an asshole to reject such an elitist, narcissistic, and indifferent ambivalence toward starving children?  Even if I were an asshole, my own integrity (which, per your definition, should make room for others) would compel me to take the side of the suffering innocents and rail against the injustice of the sadistic monster who had the power to prevent it but refused to do so.

 

So, how exactly has your behavior in this thread planted any seeds?  How have you even come close to justifying the evil god allows in this world?  You've done nothing but display your own delusion and ignorance.  And you had the fucking gall to call me arrogant?

Let me ask you a simple question.  You say I don't know why I behave the way I do.  Do you?

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46 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Let me ask you a simple question.  You say I don't know why I behave the way I do.  Do you?

I know that neither your behavior nor your motivation behind it are an explanation for god allowing children to starve, let alone a justification for it.  I know that asking this question is your attempt to misdirect the conversation onto an emotionally-charged, but ultimately irrelevant, subject matter.  And I know that you're welcome to speculate about the singing of the caged bird on your own time.

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9 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I know that neither your behavior nor your motivation behind it are an explanation for god allowing children to starve, let alone a justification for it.  I know that asking this question is your attempt to misdirect the conversation onto an emotionally-charged, but ultimately irrelevant, subject matter.  And I know that you're welcome to speculate about the singing of the caged bird on your own time.

We've already talked about where we are in the story.  Not going to repeat that as you are stuck on this one point, why doesn't God act.  I didn't misdirect, you weren't apparently listening the several times.  The interesting thing is having been here long enough, I've witness old members return that are not quite as stuck as they used to be....as you are now.  Thankfully, I don't believe I am either.  And btw, fuck you and your caged bird reference.

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32 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

We've already talked about where we are in the story.  Not going to repeat that as you are stuck on this one point, why doesn't God act.  I didn't misdirect, you weren't apparently listening the several times.  The interesting thing is having been here long enough, I've witness old members return that are not quite as stuck as they used to be....as you are now.  Thankfully, I don't believe I am either.  And btw, fuck you and your caged bird reference.

No.  You keep asserting that we are where you insist we are in the story, without offering any compelling reason to believe the story is actually true and real.  And when your favorite character in your little fantasy is called into question, all you can do is offer lame excuses and attack people's character.  It's not my fault you continue to mindlessly sing; I've left the cage door open for you too many times to count.

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And, yeah, @Edgarcito, fuck me for being stuck on this one point.  But the idea that god is evil is a point that I think deserves a thorough investigation.  After all, this is the god who is supposedly in control of everything.  This is the god who presumes the authority to judge all of us.  This is the god who presents himself as both loving and omnipotent.  To discover, or even suspect, that he might not be exactly what we've been led to believe should be of utmost importance to every intellectually honest and morally responsible person. 

 

But, integrity and morality are offensive to you; and now we know why.  

 

You'd rather tell yourself pretty little stories about god teaching us lessons and being mysterious and having his reasons and blah-the-blahty-fuck-blah.  Pathetic and mindless sheep.  You can't even address the points I've made about the point of god being evil, let alone the actual point that god is evil.  You'd rather attack the character of someone with the integrity and morality to side with the suffering innocents against the monstrosity of a god too indifferent to lift a finger.

 

Because you lack the integrity and morality to question it yourself.  

 

So the idea that someone else has the balls you wish you had drives you half-insane.  For all your intellectual clap-trap and word-salads about grace and god damn relationships, when genuinely pushed to take a good hard look at your god's behavior (and how it mirrors your own) all you can do is lash out and attack like the cornered animal you are.  Still just a scared little boy; and angry because daddy is so smart.  So you hide yourself behind comforting lies and lash out from the protection of your walls. 

 

Fuck me?  No.  Fuck anybody who can summarily dismiss the suffering of starving children, raped and abandoned, and smugly claim that it's all just part of a loving god's plan.

 

This is why you can't face the facts, Ed.  This is why you refuse to deal with the truth.

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And, yeah, @Edgarcito, fuck me for being stuck on this one point.  But the idea that the god is evil is a point that I think deserves a thorough investigation.  After all, this is the god who is supposedly in control of everything.  This is the god who presumes the authority to judge all of us.  This is the god who presents himself as both loving and omnipotent.  To discover, or even suspect, that he might not be exactly what we've been led to believe should be of utmost importance to every intellectually honest and morally responsible person. 

 

But, integrity and morality are offensive to you; and now we know why.  

 

You'd rather tell yourself pretty little stories about god teaching us lessons and being mysterious and having his reasons and blah-the-blahty-fuck-blah.  Pathetic and mindless sheep.  You can't even address the points I've made about the point of god being evil, let alone the actual point that god is evil.  You'd rather attack the character of someone with the integrity and morality to side with the suffering innocents against the monstrosity of a god too indifferent to lift a finger.

 

Because you lack the integrity and morality to question it yourself.  

 

So the idea that someone else has the balls you wish you had drives you half-insane.  For all your intellectual clap-trap and word-salads about grace and god damn relationships, when genuinely pushed to take a good hard look at your god's behavior (and how it mirrors your own) all you can do is lash out and attack like the cornered animal you are.  Still just a scared little boy; and angry because daddy is so smart.  So you hide yourself behind comforting lies and lash out from the protection of your walls. 

 

Fuck me?  No.  Fuck anybody who can summarily dismiss the suffering of starving children, raped and abandoned, and smugly claim that it's all just part of a loving god's plan.

 

This is why you can't face the facts, Ed.  This is why you refuse to deal with the truth.

You don't agree with the plan and are calling God a prick for the plan.  But what you've done to rectify your disagreement is quit.  Hoping you're letting redneck jr. pick for himself because your definition of integrity sucks.

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18 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

You don't agree with the plan and are calling God a prick for the plan.  But what you've done to rectify your disagreement is quit.  Hoping your letting redneck jr. pick for himself because you definition of integrity sucks.

Redneck Jr. does have that option; precisely because, as a loving father, I make sure he isn't starving to death abandoned in the streets.  

 

And, no, I don't agree with the plan.  If god's plan involves starving children to death like gutter rats, then fuck god.  I have too much integrity and too much morality to support such a plan, or worship such a beast.  What does it say about you that you would worship him (and then dare to question my character)?

 

Of course, another possibility is that god simply doesn't exist; and that's why there doesn't appear to be any kind of moral, rational plan in place.

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23 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Redneck Jr. does have that option; precisely because, as a loving father, I make sure he isn't starving to death abandoned in the streets.  

See, you can't keep your god damn plan consistent even with your son.  Teach him YOUR plan because you're so god damn smart.  Real INTEGRITY is picking ONE and then working through the parts you discover because you AREN'T God and understand the answer already.  Don't be so fuckin stupid.

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