Suffering for the Sins of the World

[TheRedneckProfessor]

10 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I gather now you are saying children don't have the option of free will.  

Oh my bleeding christ on a fuck stick, Ed.  What part of sexual SLAVERY makes you think invoking "free will" is an appropriate response for this analogy?  Do you not understand how fucking slavery works or are you just that blinded by your delusion that you believe a 10-year-old girl would volunteer herself for that kind of life?

[Edgarcito]

12 minutes ago, midniterider said:

I think I would be angry if I had to make up excuses why god does evil things...and try to explain how evil is actually somehow good...so my imaginary bully won't send me to hell....when i know in my heart of hearts that my explanation is complete bs. 

You do you M.  You don't know my internal drive.

[Edgarcito]

9 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Oh my bleeding christ on a fuck stick, Ed.  What part of sexual SLAVERY makes you think invoking "free will" is an appropriate response for this analogy?  Do you not understand how fucking slavery works or are you just that blinded by your delusion that you believe a 10-year-old girl would volunteer herself for that kind of life?

Either you believe me or not....

[TheRedneckProfessor]

And what, @Edgarcito?  Are you going to say those kids deserve to go to hell for not believing in the same god who refuses to feed them or save them from rape?  Next you'll be telling us she wanted to be raped because of her clothes and that look in her eye. 

 

Blaming the victim is not going to absolve your god, Ed.  He is evil and there's no defense for it.  Period.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Either you believe me or not....

I don't.  Now what?

[Edgarcito]

4 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I don't.  Now what?

Well you would be mistaken.  Now what leads us back to whether A&E were given an innate quality of free will.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

23 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Well you would be mistaken.  Now what leads us back to whether A&E were given an innate quality of free will.

Changing the subject is not going to absolve your god of the evil he allows.  Nor is it going to absolve you of attempting to blame a 10-year-old sex slave for the evil she suffers.  Adam and Eve and free will don't have a god damn thing to do with it.  This goes back to god's free will, by which god freely chooses to allow children to starve to death and be sold into sexual slavery.  

 

Your god is evil, Ed.  Appealing to our finite free will isn't going to change that.  Because god's free will is infinite, not limited like ours.  god literally can choose anything and everything he wants without any kind of repercussions.  And he chooses to let babies die starving, raped, and abandoned in the streets. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

52 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

DB just called Revelation a failed promise. 

Well it is. Its an early christian prophecy about what he thought was going to happen to Nero for persecuting the church. They thought back then that it was the end. They were witnessing their fellow Christians being tortured and killed in horrible ways. Possibly even the very Ceasar that killed Paul and Peter. 

 

When you stop trying to put revelations in the future it actually makes sense. Bart Ehrman has a new book out about it that i need to read. Might be a good one for you too Ed. 

[Edgarcito]

23 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Changing the subject is not going to absolve your god of the evil he allows.  Nor is it going to absolve you of attempting to blame a 10-year-old sex slave for the evil she suffers.  Adam and Eve and free will don't have a god damn thing to do with it.  This goes back to god's free will, by which god freely chooses to allow children to starve to death and be sold into sexual slavery.  

 

Your god is evil, Ed.  Appealing to our finite free will isn't going to change that.  Because god's free will is infinite, not limited like ours.  god literally can choose anything and everything he wants without any kind of repercussions.  And he chooses to let babies die starving, raped, and abandoned in the streets. 

There were essentially two statements in Genesis.  First, they were given freedom and instruction.  You are free to "eat" this but instructed not to eat that.  She ate that and then the cosmic function was they are not allowed eternal due to the previous choice.

 

Wouldn't we prefer evil to be finite than eternal?  Wouldn't observation of evil provide motivation for a decision?  Wouldn't sacrifice?

 

There is stuff we don't know on many levels and avenues.    

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

14 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

There were essentially two statements in Genesis.  First, they were given freedom and instruction.  You are free to "eat" this but instructed not to eat that.  She ate that and then the cosmic function was they are not allowed eternal due to the previous choice.

 

Wouldn't we prefer evil to be finite than eternal?  Wouldn't observation of evil provide motivation for a decision?  Wouldn't sacrifice?

 

There is stuff we don't know on many levels and avenues.    

 

 

 

 

None of which is relevant to the point at hand.  The fact still remains that god used his own free will to place the tree in the garden, and issue the command, knowing already the outcome he had determined would occur.. So, you're right back to where Walt took you the other day.  Your god's omniscience merely reveals yet another layer of his evil nature.  He put the tree in the garden, already knowing exactly how many little girls were going to be raped as a result, and how many little boys would starve to death in consequence. And he still chose to plant the tree.

 

Your god is evil, Ed.  Trying to blame it on Eve isn't going to absolve your god of what he is legitimately guilty of.  Eve did exactly what god knew, and had already determined, that she would do.  Rendering whatever "test" you want to pretend we're experiencing completely unnecessary and meaningless.  Every child that dies, hungry, cold, and abandoned, is a deliberate choice that god made the minute he put that tree in the garden.  Evil exists because god wants it to exist; and that makes god evil.

[Edgarcito]

11 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

None of which is relevant to the point at hand.  The fact still remains that god used his own free will to place the tree in the garden, and issue the command, knowing already the outcome he had determined would occur.. So, you're right back to where Walt took you the other day.  Your god's omniscience merely reveals yet another layer of his evil nature.  He put the tree in the garden, already knowing exactly how many little girls were going to be raped as a result, and how many little boys would starve to death in consequence. And he still chose to plant the tree.

 

Your god is evil, Ed.  Trying to blame it on Eve isn't going to absolve your god of what he is legitimately guilty of.  Eve did exactly what god knew, and had already determined, that she would do.  Rendering whatever "test" you want to pretend we're experiencing completely unnecessary and meaningless.  Every child that dies, hungry, cold, and abandoned, is a deliberate choice that god made the minute he put that tree in the garden.  Evil exists because god wants it to exist; and that makes god evil.

We disagree and likely always will.  I don't want to play for a team that gives its word and then backs out.... certainly in light that none hold all the answers.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't want to play for a team that gives its word and then backs out.

Does anyone else find this statement hilariously Ironic?

[midniterider]

Christian logic:  God told the ten year old girl not to choose sex slavery.

 

But right after that God watched some guy drag her into his van and drove off with her, tied and gagged.

 

Shame on that 10 year old girl!

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

43 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

There is stuff we don't know on many levels and avenues.    

 

So, then, let us focus on what we do know:

 

1. We know that evil exists

2. We know that an all-powerful god would have the ability to prevent evil.

3. We know that an all-loving god would have the willingness (and desire) to prevent evil.

4. Therefore, because evil exists, we know that an all-loving and all-powerful god does not exist.

5. This is how we know that your god, Ed, the god of the bible, does not exist.  

 

Because evil does exist, a god who is both omnipotent and omnibenevolent cannot, must not, exist.  There may be an all-loving god; but, if so, he isn't powerful enough to prevent evil.  Contrariwise, there may be an all-powerful god; but he isn't loving enough to prevent evil.

 

This option makes a lot more sense than either of the alternatives you and I have offered.  Because your alternative is a god who is so powerful that a petty, street-level pimp can thwart his divine plan; and so loving that he blames the 10-year-old sex slave for bringing evil upon herself and then throws her into hell for rejecting his "love."  The alternative I've offered is a god who is simply evil.

 

No god at all would certainly satisfy Occam's Razor in this situation, wouldn't you agree?

[midniterider]

2 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Does anyone else find this statement hilariously Ironic?

 

It's a display of Presumptuous authority and arrogance.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

15 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't want to play for a team that gives its word and then backs out....

You mean like jesus supposedly suffering for the sins of the world, but then allowing little kids to starve to death because... sin?  A team like that would suck, I agree.

[walterpthefirst]

20 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Speculation on your part Whezzy.  You don't what's going on beyond our perception and speculate according to the conclusion your mind has drawn....  You will be in this non-believer mindset until you one day are not.  Or you might remain there forever..

 

No sir, that's where you are wrong.

 

What I've written is based entirely upon scripture.  If that's not the way things go according your notion of god's 'test' then you are deviating from scripture and putting your own personal spin on things.

 

According to the bible salvation is ONLY possible through the blood of Christ and not via satisfying a 'test' of Edgarcito's making.

[walterpthefirst]

20 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Remembering that one transgression is no different than another.  Next.

 

And all transgressions are forgiven ONLY through the blood of Christ, not by satisfying the conditions of a 'test' made up by Edgarcito.

[walterpthefirst]

20 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

See, this is the shit that pisses me off.  You have been here how many years?  Even in the OT, how many were counted as righteous?  It does seem as though it ultimately is and will be an absolute situation with God.

 

Yet here you are playing games with the misunderstanding and lack of cognitive ability.  

 

Just say no to commenting if you can't pick up your game.  Thanks in advance from ALL of us.

 

And it is god who sets the terms (the blood of Christ) not Edgarcito and his 'test'.

[walterpthefirst]

3 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Well you would be mistaken.  Now what leads us back to whether A&E were given an innate quality of free will.

 

Invalid example.

 

God allowed their freedom of choice to be influenced by Satan, when he could have restrained him and allowed Adam and Eve to make a TRULY free choice.

 

Jude 6

 

6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 

 

2 Peter 2 : 4

 

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

There were essentially two statements in Genesis.  First, they were given freedom and instruction.  You are free to "eat" this but instructed not to eat that.  She ate that and then the cosmic function was they are not allowed eternal due to the previous choice.

 

Wouldn't we prefer evil to be finite than eternal?  Wouldn't observation of evil provide motivation for a decision?  Wouldn't sacrifice?

 

There is stuff we don't know on many levels and avenues.    

 

 

But we DO know that god could have allowed Adam and Eve a truly free choice to obey him, but he didn't.

 

The bible says so.

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

We disagree and likely always will.  I don't want to play for a team that gives its word and then backs out.... certainly in light that none hold all the answers.

 

And I'm glad that I no longer play for the team that writes off suffering children with such callous and cold-hearted disregard.

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

21 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

And it is god who sets the terms (the blood of Christ) not Edgarcito and his 'test'.

 

Deuteronomy 4:2

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

 

Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

 

Deuteronomy 12:32

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

 

[Edgarcito]

37 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

But we DO know that god could have allowed Adam and Eve a truly free choice to obey him, but he didn't.

 

The bible says so.

Gonna need to see this one Walter please sir.

[walterpthefirst]

22 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Gonna need to see this one Walter please sir.

 

I've already shown you, Ed.

 

God could have restrained Satan in chains of darkness as he did with the other rebellious angels.

 

See Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2 : 4.

 

But he let Satan into Eden to corrupt and influence Eve and Adam.

 

So they didn't make a truly free choice.

 

Which is exactly what the Prof has been telling you.

 

God has the power to prevent evil - but he just lets it happen.