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Goodbye Jesus

Your father's DNA


aik

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10 hours ago, older said:

  

I'm not asking god to bow down on his knees. What I want to see is for this alleged god to stop being a cruel asshole and use his powers to stop all the bad shit that he knows is happening and allows to happen even though he has the power to stop it.

My dear friend. He is already doing it and leads to it. He stopped evil in my life and in lives of everyone who belived. We know it because we believe and obtained it. Faith without evidence is not right. God never gives faith without evidence. But faith is the must to meet God, to know him and to have evidence from Him.

 

I very much agree with you and understand what you are saying.

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35 minutes ago, aik said:

Faith without evidence is not right. God never gives faith without evidence.

This is not accurate, according to scripture. 

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  Hebrews 11:1

 

Faith is the evidence; and it is the only evidence there is.  In other words, because there is no evidence, faith is required.  

 

35 minutes ago, aik said:

But faith is the must to meet God, to know him and to have evidence from Him.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith Romans 12:3

 

According to scripture, faith is not something we can choose to have.  Rather, it is something god gives us.  Is it god's choice as to whether or not a person will even have any faith at all; and more than that, god actually chooses how much or how little faith he will give a person.  If I have no faith, it is because god chose not to give me any.  This is not through any fault of my own.  This is god's deliberate choice.  Same as Esau, Pharoah, and many others.

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

In other words, because there is no evidence, faith is required.  

wrong. not because there is no evidence. Faith leads to the evidence, or faith bears evidence. or faith shows evidence.

 

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith

Well, when you try to cut off a verse out of the Bible, you will lose yourself. The Bible shows that a man chooses his way and that God gives the faith. I will try to speak close to your language. That a man acts according to his faith by his choise, and God gives evidence which strengthens his faith. 

 

There are passages in the scripture where it describes that the decsiples first believe Jesus, then Jesus did something, and again it is said 'the decsiples believed Him after seeing it'. At first Jesus told something, then people who listened believed Him, then Jesus for example made a miracle, then the same people believed in Him. 

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On 11/25/2022 at 8:35 PM, walterpthefirst said:

 

Thank you, aik.

 

My four questions will be waiting for you.

 

1.

On what date did the world change from being flat to being a sphere?

 

2.

Why does Revelation 7 : 1 say that the world has four corners, just like a flat square?

 

3.

Were you relying on science when you said that the Sun shines at night?

 

4.

But Jesus did not provide the building you and your family live in.

Jesus does not supply you with electricity, clean water, gas, food, medicine and the Internet.

Jesus does not employ you and pay your wages.

Jesus has done none of these things.

But science supplies you with everything you need to live a healthy and comfortable life.

Science enables your employers to give you work.

Science enables you to save money in the bank.

Science enables you to read these words on your screen.

 

Has Jesus himself, in person, given you the things listed above?

 

 

 

 

 

1. Never changed. It was a sphere.

 

2. There is not written 'like a square'. It is only said four corners. Well I don't really understand why it is said corners. But we sometimes say a phrase 'i went to the end of the world', or even we have north, south, west and east. I cannot interprete this word used here actually, but maybe it refers to north and south and so on. It is to my opinion.

 

3. Yes. 

 

4. All things you listed is not the case for life. but for comfort. I am thankful to God for scientific inventions, for education of people, for development of human knowledge. Because God's wisdom teaches how to do something. If we are humble and love to study, we will have success. But if we think that we know everything and do not need to develop, then we stop developing. Humbleness also is from God. Not everyone has it. 

 

But Jesus gives life, which is not depended on education of a person, or his property. The meaning of the life is not the property nor education nor gadgets. The core meaning of the life is knowing God through Jesus Christ, it gives life not only to you, but also to those who surround you.

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On 11/25/2022 at 10:12 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Per your own standard, Buddhism is not a religion. 

I did not say that. Show me please.

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1 hour ago, aik said:

1. Never changed. It was a sphere.

 

 

 

If the shape of the world never changed and always was a sphere, how was it possible for Satan to take Jesus to a very high mountain where all the kingdoms of the world could be seen?

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27 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

If the shape of the world never changed and always was a sphere, how was it possible for Satan to take Jesus to a very high mountain where all the kingdoms of the world could be seen?

I don't know. I really can't imagine it. 

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23 minutes ago, aik said:

I don't know. I really can't imagine it. 

 

And yet on Friday you did know this.

 

 

Yes, Bible is true saying that at the certain moment, in the certain situation devil when tempted Jesus he could show Him all the kingdoms of the world from the top of a mountain. But it doesn't ever say that we any time can climb the mountain and see all the kingdoms of the world.

 

 

So, today you say that the world has always been a sphere.

 

But on Friday you said that all of the kingdoms of the world could be seen from a mountain top.

 

Your two statements cannot both be true.

 

 

Which one is true, aik?

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

And yet on Friday you did know this.

 

 

Yes, Bible is true saying that at the certain moment, in the certain situation devil when tempted Jesus he could show Him all the kingdoms of the world from the top of a mountain. But it doesn't ever say that we any time can climb the mountain and see all the kingdoms of the world.

 

 

So, today you say that the world has always been a sphere.

 

But on Friday you said that all of the kingdoms of the world could be seen from a mountain top.

 

Your two statements cannot both be true.

 

 

Which one is true, aik?

 

 

 

Walter, do not try to catch me. I do not know how it was shown to Jesus.

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5 hours ago, aik said:

wrong. not because there is no evidence. Faith leads to the evidence, or faith bears evidence. or faith shows evidence.

You're welcome to assert whatever you like; but if it goes against scripture, then it goes against scripture.  And this assertion goes against scripture. 

 

5 hours ago, aik said:

The Bible shows that a man chooses his way

The bible also shows that god predestines who will be saved and who will be destroyed in eternal hellfire.  The bible contradicts itself.  Why would you trust it?

 

5 hours ago, aik said:

and that God gives the faith

Exactly.  Nothing I do or choose will change god's mind concerning the amount of faith, or lack thereof, that god gives me.

 

 

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5 hours ago, aik said:

I did not say that. Show me please.

No.  We already had that conversation and I already showed you.

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4 hours ago, aik said:

Walter, do not try to catch me. I do not know how it was shown to Jesus.

 

But you do believe that god's Word is inerrant and never leads to contradiction or error.

 

So you are ducking the question because it threatens your belief in the inerrancy of the bible.

 

Noted.

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:04 PM, aik said:

Look, sister. God never showd Himself to be untrustworthy. I read the Bible and I see that what Jesus said is true in my life, and upon the testimonies in lives of others. Words of Jesus are truthful, whatever He promised it came true. There is nothing in the Bible that could make me doubt in God's word. I don't know what kind of fallacies you are talking about.

 

Nothing in the Bible doesn't sound impossible? Matthew 27, a bunch of dead people got out of their graves and walked around Jerusalem. Nobody else mentions this except for Matthew. I don't think so...this isn't the kind of thing that happens and nobody writes about it. 

 

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On 11/25/2022 at 12:13 PM, aik said:

Yes, Bible is true saying that at the certain moment, in the certain situation devil when tempted Jesus he could show Him all the kingdoms of the world from the top of a mountain. But it doesn't ever say that we any time can climb the mountain and see all the kingdoms of the world.

 

Lmao....ridiculous 

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On 11/26/2022 at 12:02 AM, aik said:

The problem you mention in the first part of you post is real. And we also fight against such a lie, that is made by men but the Bible never teaches deny medicine, or science whether in general or particular. But actually we can see that not always science is able to solve the problems. But God's power is overwhelming.  And that is why we have miracles by the power of God. What refers to 1.1 millions, i don't think that all of them are victims of pervert teachings of pastors, but some of them can be. 

 

To the second part of the post I gave an answer, in the view of links. But please note, I watched your links from the start till the end. Please do the same. And I also ask you do not be quick to answer, think first. I really was not afraid, just I had no time to give an answer all the questions here referred to me. Please excuse me. 

 

@aik I have tinnitus and the most annoying, restless leg syndrome. If you pray for me, and both of those conditions that plague me are healed, I'll come back to Christianity. 

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23 hours ago, aik said:

My dear friend. He is already doing it and leads to it. He stopped evil in my life and in lives of everyone who belived. We know it because we believe and obtained it. Faith without evidence is not right. God never gives faith without evidence. But faith is the must to meet God, to know him and to have evidence from Him.

 

I very much agree with you and understand what you are saying.

Hi AIK:

Thanks for your thoughtful response. You claim that your god is stopping evil, but an allegedly loving god would not allow such things to happen in the first place. Some of the children in the photos I posted were affected in the womb, well before they would have any chance to find faith. And there are those who are dying of starvation today but are too young to know anything about any gods. And there are some in the photos of the concentration camp who had lots of faith but were tortured regardless. Adults who pray daily are still being set upon with unspeakable horrors. There is no way any existing god can meet the Christian definition of their god, and the evidence shows that any god who claims to love his creations is either lying or impotent.

 

I'll make the same request that Hierophant made above. I have cancer. If your god is real, and it loves me, and it can do anything it wants, I ask it to prove it within the next ten minutes by healing my cancer and to tell me it's done so (it's been 14 years and it hasn't paid any attention to it yet....). And if it heals me, I pledge to your god to dedicate every waking minute of the rest of my life to its service. And if it doesn't love me, I dare it to strike me dead. It's 21 minutes after the hour as I write this. I'll give it ten minutes to prove its existence and I'll make a final post then with the results.

 

 

 

 

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H again, AIK. It's now been 24 minutes, so your god has had plenty of time to prove its existence and I'm still here and the same as I was 24 minutes ago. 

 

I'm going to say goodbye now and leave this thread. I've enjoyed our conversation and I thank you for making me think. And even though we disagree on some fundamental issues about the world, I hope that we might meet some day and perhaps share a cold beer and our appreciation for the good things in life.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Hierophant said:

 

@aik I have tinnitus and the most annoying, restless leg syndrome. If you pray for me, and both of those conditions that plague me are healed, I'll come back to Christianity. 

You will have it according to your faith

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7 hours ago, older said:

Hi AIK:

Thanks for your thoughtful response. You claim that your god is stopping evil, but an allegedly loving god would not allow such things to happen in the first place. Some of the children in the photos I posted were affected in the womb, well before they would have any chance to find faith. And there are those who are dying of starvation today but are too young to know anything about any gods. And there are some in the photos of the concentration camp who had lots of faith but were tortured regardless. Adults who pray daily are still being set upon with unspeakable horrors. There is no way any existing god can meet the Christian definition of their god, and the evidence shows that any god who claims to love his creations is either lying or impotent.

 

I'll make the same request that Hierophant made above. I have cancer. If your god is real, and it loves me, and it can do anything it wants, I ask it to prove it within the next ten minutes by healing my cancer and to tell me it's done so (it's been 14 years and it hasn't paid any attention to it yet....). And if it heals me, I pledge to your god to dedicate every waking minute of the rest of my life to its service. And if it doesn't love me, I dare it to strike me dead. It's 21 minutes after the hour as I write this. I'll give it ten minutes to prove its existence and I'll make a final post then with the results.

 

 

 

 

You will have it according to your faith

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I am asking you to intercede on my behalf. I am relying on your faith to make it happen.

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12 hours ago, aik said:

You will have it according to your faith

 

Why doesn't God just heal without requiring faith? 

 

People will help other people without even being asked. I bet you do as well. 

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16 hours ago, Hierophant said:

I am asking you to intercede on my behalf. I am relying on your faith to make it happen.

I prayed for you and I got only this for you. So it is what you have now.

 

By the way about intercession. Could you tell me please who is your pastor and what is the name of your church you attended to?

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6 hours ago, aik said:

I prayed for you and I got only this for you. So it is what you have now.

 

By the way about intercession. Could you tell me please who is your pastor and what is the name of your church you attended to?

 

I haven't been to church since 2016/2017

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3 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

I haven't been to church since 2016/2017

did you repent? were you then baptised in water?

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4 minutes ago, aik said:

did you repent? were you then baptised in water?

 

Yes. Repented and baptized in Iraq in 2004. I got baptized again in 2014 or 2015 because I kept having doubts about my salvation and wanted to make sure I did it with better knowledge of what I thought it meant to be a follower of Christ.

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