Peanut Gallery for "What Is Evidence / How Do We Know What Is Real?"

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 hours ago, Rev R said:

I ended up REALLY curious here so I'd like to open the question up to all the Ex-C's. When you were bringing religion to the unwashed masses, what was your claim to speak with the authority of God or Christ? 

I genuinely believed that the holy spirit would always speak through me exactly what the person needed to hear.  There's a scripture verse or three that talks about the holy spirit giving us the words and the power.  Something about being ready in season and out of season to give account for the faith.  So, pretty much, whatever popped into my head was assumed to be what the holy spirit wanted said to whatever heathen, apostate, or heretic I was "witnessing" to. 

 

But, quite often, the "holy spirit" couldn't find suitable answers to the questions and issues raised during the conversation.  It wasn't his fault, of course; how could he be expected to know everything, being omniscient and all.  No, it just meant I needed to study harder, learn more, spend more time seeking his wisdom; and then he would really be able to use me.

 

Seems a bit silly now.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

10 hours ago, Rev R said:

I ended up REALLY curious here so I'd like to open the question up to all the Ex-C's. When you were bringing religion to the unwashed masses, what was your claim to speak with the authority of God or Christ? 

For me, after a few years, I felt I had been called to preach Gods word. To lead lost souls to Christ. I had many a sleepless night when I was really digging into the Bible. I thought God was giving me dreams and visions. I never thought I had the ability to Prophesy or anything. But like the good professor I also thought that the Holy Ghost was speaking through me. As any preacher should feel.

 

I never received a formal theological education. I really wish I had. I probably would have started figuring out all the bullshit sooner. But the churches I went to felt that preachers shouldn't have to be educated by anything other than the Holy Ghost. I never knew why they were so adamant about not going to college to preach. 

 

I'm curious now if maybe they saw people lose their faith because of college and decided that it must not be good for a preacher to go...... 

 

Colleges don't teach what the gospel assembly taught anyway. I had to learn all that from the elder pastors of the church. But I'm going down a rabbit trail now so I'll end this post before I go to far lol. 

 

DB

[TheRedneckProfessor]

My denomination firmly believed in the baptism and indwelling of the holy spirit.  In fact, that doctrine is number one on their list of 16 fundamental truths; it comes even before jesus being the son of god.  So, for me, the only authority I needed to present the gospel with power and passion was the fact that I had been baptized in the holy spirit with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues.  

 

Now, the physical evidences of the fruits of the spirit being manifested in my life were a different story, altogether.  Patience, compassion, peace...?  That shit was for losers.  I was anointed.  That's all that mattered.

[walterpthefirst]

45 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

My denomination firmly believed in the baptism and indwelling of the holy spirit.  In fact, that doctrine is number one on their list of 16 fundamental truths; it comes even before jesus being the son of god.  So, for me, the only authority I needed to present the gospel with power and passion was the fact that I had been baptized in the holy spirit with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues.  

 

Now, the physical evidences of the fruits of the spirit being manifested in my life were a different story, altogether.  Patience, compassion, peace...?  That shit was for lovers.  I was anointed.  That's all that mattered.

 

With all due respect Prof, how did your denomination interpret 1 Corinthians 13 : 8 - 12 ?

 

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 

10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

My denomination taught that the gifts of the spirit were only for this world, but the fruit of the spirit were for all eternity.

 

The justification for this being all that Jesus said about bearing fruit, especially John 15 : 1 - 8 and also verse 17.

 

1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 

4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

 

Verse 6 referred to the quality of a person's spiritual fruit being the factor that determines if they go to hell or not.

 

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 

 

Verse 17 was compared with 1 Corinthians 13 : 8.

 

If tongues will be stilled but the fruit of the spirit lasts, we interpreted this to mean that the gifts were temporary but the fruit lasted forever.

 

I'm just curious here, btw.

 

Thank you,

 

Walter. 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

49 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

With all due respect Prof, how did your denomination interpret 1 Corinthians 13 : 8 - 12 ?

There are two different Greek words translated as "tongues" in English: "glossilalia", which means any type of articulate sound, and "dialektos", which more specifically refers to language.  "Languages" will pass away; but not the articulations of the holy spirit.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Don't look too closely at that explanation, @walterpthefirst; it will fall apart, if you do.

[walterpthefirst]

8 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Don't look too closely at that explanation, @walterpthefirst; it will fall apart, if you do.

 

Umm... ok.

 

I won't look.

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Don't look too closely at that explanation, @walterpthefirst; it will fall apart, if you do.

 

1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

Umm... ok.

 

I won't look.

 

 

 

 

Here's why it falls apart: the Greek word in 1 Cor 13:8 was a derivative of "glossilalia," which means Paul is not referring to languages, but to articulations.  But don't tell Pastor Tom, okay?

 

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

Ok Prof, thanks for that.

 

[aik]

Merry Christmas to everyone, and have joyful holiday time, dear friends. See you soon again. I pray God he saves you souls and keeps you safe and sound. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, aik said:

 

 God he saves you souls and keeps you safe and sound. 

 

I appreciate the thought, but I will trust my house, my best judgement, the neighborhood, and the police to keep me safe and sound.  Have a good holiday!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, aik said:

 

This is what you say. The Bible tells us that only the remnant will be saved, not the majority, my friend. Who is the remnant? 

Rom.8:30  And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.

 

Rev. 17:14 and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones

 

"predestined, called, justified and glorified". on the other side "called, chosen and faithful". Not everyone. "Here is the faith of the saints" So the faith is to be tested. 

 

 

Aik, to me, predestination sounds like God decides ahead of time who he will save.  How does that play out in the scheme of life?  Does God chose ahead of time who he will take with him, IF that person decides to follow him?  And what happens if a person is NOT on that list, but decides to he wants to follow God??  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Honestly, that is the most convoluted idea about predestination I have ever heard.  I'm going to have to sleep on that answer.

[Myrkhoos]

@aik

 

There is no "the Bible says". There is only "this my interpretation of the Bible". As you are not a Bible scholar ( you have no deep knowledge of the original Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, plus the various important early translations in Syriac, Coptic, Latin, etc, no education in Ancient Levant cultures, no studies in general translation and linguistics, no knowledge of manuscript quantity and quality, etc), your interpretation is, by definition, at most superficial, at best informed by your personal experience, which has meaning ONLY for you.

    So anything you say about the "Bible as such" I honestly do not even have a good reason to even consider. But this applies to many here as well, including myself. No offence to anyone.

     I read what people have to say about their experience with the Bible here as a testimony about their belief system and how it was constructed.

     So there is no "what the Bible teaches about salvation" , it will be what @aik teaches about salvation. 

     And what you teach is just the same emotionally intense type of belief system one can see with people of every faith and even fanclubs, in my opinion. There is no there, there, just hyped up emotions which you can get a soccer( football game). It's not supposed to be this precise system of philosophy, it's a south american soap opera, a telenovela. I have a degree in Screenwriting so I am talking as a "specialist" here. South American soap operas are intentionally built to be wildly over the top, incredible, escapist fantasies, often filmed with lots of bright colours, many close ups and cliff hangers with starwars like dramatic music. Especially women in my country watched them, "religiously", even though they were technically silly. But that was the point. Overblown silliness to compensate for the drudgery of normal life. A drug. 

.   And essentially this is what I feel you are describing to us. Your drug addiction and drug fueled fantastic fables. No argument is ever going to reach you because 1. You are not in the state to receive arguments. 2. You do not care about arguments, only filling some psychological void in your heart. And I cannot help you there. What I can say is I'm not interested in the drug you're selling and take that as you wish. I hope you find a better way of dealing with reality than the outright denial and replacement with self-harming fantasies that you seem to be indulging right now. I know this will not persuade you, nor I am expecting and wanting an answer, this is more for eventual lurkers and other members here. 

[Myrkhoos]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:22 AM, Weezer said:

Honestly, that is the most convoluted idea about predestination I have ever heard.  I'm going to have to sleep on that answer.

Convoluted ideas = most of Christianity is today :)))

[midniterider]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:05 PM, aik said:

So inheritance belongs to Jesus only, because only He deserves to inherit the Kingdom. So here we can see that no one else can be called to be a real heir of the Father save Jesus.

 

How do you inherit something from a being who never dies? 

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

How do you inherit something from a being who never dies? 

 

An excellent point, midniterider.

 

Hebrews 7 : 14 - 17.

 

14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 

15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 

16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 

17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.

 

If Jesus has an indestructible life then he cannot die.

 

Yes, his physical body on earth died on the cross, but his spirit did not.

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

aik is making himself scarce lately.

[midniterider]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

aik is making himself scarce lately.

 

He is quivering with fear because of our bulletproof logic.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Aik, did you get the story of my religious journey in your email?

[aik]

22 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Aik, did you get the story of my religious journey in your email?

Weezer i haven't met it. If you sent it to me i will check by search of what i have. Which date was it?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

It was sent January 8th.