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Goodbye Jesus

Defending God: Believe in God no matter what religion says


Art D

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Here is a long article I'm working on which may someday become a book.

It has a lot of useful info for someone leaving Christianity who doesn’t want to leave God, too.

Comments welcome.  Here's how the book opens.

 

“Defending God? Why would God need defending? Because religion tells enormous lies about God.:

 

Download:

 

https://www.adamford.com/DefendingGod - Arthur Dadamo.epub

 

https://www.adamford.com/DefendingGod - Arthur Dadamo.pdf

 

 

 

 

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That is a lot of material. I did read some and found interesting material but what I saw was just about Christianity and their god or gods however you look at it. My question is are you talking about Defending (the Christian) God: believe in (the Christian) God no matter what (the Christian) religion says or is the scope of your writing broader than this? If not what about the other 2/3s of the people on earth who have no particular interest in Christianity? Are they just not to be given much weight when thinking about a "God/Gods"? I'm wondering how you say "God" but don't seem to include the Gods that historically and even today are believed in by the overwhelming majority of humanity.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-exec/ 

This is from 2012 Pew Research Center but these percentages change very slowly.

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I find fault mostly with Christianity but then describe a way forward that someone of any religion might follow.

Some material in the second half applies to many religions, as do the "Regressive/Progressive" sections.

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If god is all powerful and can do anything he wants to do, he could do his own defending.  It would be easy these days with mass media.  I have been waiting for god to us his super power to break into all mass media at once and explain himself to everybody at once.  That would clear things up real quick.  But it has yet to happen.  Good luck with your book.

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On 2/4/2023 at 6:05 AM, Art D said:

 

Although I'm a pure atheist and view all religions as no better or logical than Greek mythology, I think your writings fill a gap that many religious folk would like to hear and read. I agree that many educated folk of the world realize how ridiculous the biblical texts of the Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. are, but they still get a lot of comfort out of praying, the belief in an afterlife of some kind for their relatives and themselves -- so good luck on your continued writings. :)

 

Also, you have only 10 postings here as a new member. I hope you will continue posting here for a long time and will enjoy conversations with our members.  Cheers and welcome.

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@Art D, can you summarize your thesis in a few paragraphs? Thanks, F

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I see three gods. 
1. The creator god. As an agnostic I do not dismiss a creator something. This god no longer is involved in this world project. 
 

2. God the father. How can Christians believe they are gods children and still have the need to worship. If you are a god go get something other than others like you and have them worship you. Dogs or cats or monkeys. 
 

3. The god that needs to be worshipped. What a cruel controlling destructive concept. This bully needs to be removed from your life. 

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14 hours ago, ficino said:

@Art D, can you summarize your thesis in a few paragraphs? Thanks, F

 

Nice to see you again ficino. Haven't seen your postings for awhile now. Don't let COVID or global cooling keep you away.   Have a good one. :)

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On 2/5/2023 at 12:21 PM, pantheory said:

 

 I think your writings fill a gap that many religious folk would like to hear and read. I agree that many educated folk of the world realize how ridiculous the biblical texts of the Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. are, but they still get a lot of comfort out of praying, the belief in an afterlife of some kind for their relatives and themselves -- so good luck on your continued writings. :)

 

Thanks. Trying to fill the gap is exactly what I'm trying to do.

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On 2/8/2023 at 9:08 PM, ficino said:

@Art D, can you summarize your thesis in a few paragraphs? Thanks, F

God exists. Religions are flawed attempts to relate to God. Flawed in that religions contain myths and, often, silly fairy tales. When someone realizes religion's flaws, they may 1) turn to atheism; 2) rationalize away religions' flaws; 3) leave religions' nonsense behind and advance towards truth, to where God becomes the teacher.

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4 hours ago, Art D said:

Thanks. Trying to fill the gap is exactly what I'm trying to do.

 

Art D, Although your writings will bring joy to some, but to all you are selling a fantasy. I am a pure atheist, an animal, just like you and every other human on Earth IMO. Selling religion to folks is like selling Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny to children. It' brings happiness to a point, but you might want to realize that in the long run some will cry when they find out such imaginary things don't exist, such as Santa, the Ester Bunny, and God(s) of any kind. I view your work as a fiction writer, but fiction that many would like to hear and read like a preacher.  I believe many will agree with you, and it seems to me that your fiction is better than most organized religions.  :)

 

 

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17 hours ago, Art D said:

God exists. Religions are flawed attempts to relate to God. Flawed in that religions contain myths and, often, silly fairy tales. When someone realizes religion's flaws, they may 1) turn to atheism; 2) rationalize away religions' flaws; 3) leave religions' nonsense behind and advance towards truth, to where God becomes the teacher.

I will admit it is hard to give up the idea of there not being some kind of a "creator" that started this whole HUGE, COMPLEX universe.  It is hard to imagine all this JUST "HAPPENED."  And perhaps god is a concept.  Like the "energy", "force", "spirit" of life.  Anything that promotes life, quality of life,  and existance of all living things??  Perhaps there is something to "consciousness", or of "being" that we with our primitive minds do not yet understand.  It definitely is a mystery, and I am not sure anyone will ever figure out where all this "stuff" came from.  I have heard  energy cannot be created or destroyed.  If that is so, then something HAS always existed.  But where did the matter come from?  VERY INTERESTING STUFF!  I am glad you are thinking and writing about it.  Society desperately needs some kind of healthy, evidence based "spirit" or ideology to hold humanity together.

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Pantheory: there’s the idea of God as a person, separate from the universe, who created it. And then there’s the idea of God as an impersonal entity which is the basis of the universe. An analogy: the universe is like an image on a monitor and God is the light. God as ultimate ground of existence. Does your pure atheism rule out both types?

 

Weezer: “Society desperately needs some kind of healthy, evidence based "spirit" or ideology to hold humanity together.” Probably true. But even if it did not need it, a simple search for truth might lead to a ideology that serves that purpose.

 

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On 2/10/2023 at 10:15 PM, Weezer said:

 

On 2/11/2023 at 5:28 AM, Art D said:

Pantheory: there’s the idea of God as a person, separate from the universe, who created it. And then there’s the idea of God as an impersonal entity which is the basis of the universe. An analogy: the universe is like an image on a monitor and God is the light. God as ultimate ground of existence. Does your pure atheism rule out both types?

 

 

 

Science cannot prove the non-existence of a God of any kind. But like unicorns and leprechauns, there also is no objective evidence IMO to support any of their existences.  

 

Although I really like your writings compared to most religious material, you might someday realize that there is no objective evidence IMHO to support the existence of a God of any kind. And to me, believing in God is like believing in Santa -- something to believe in outside of facts, to provide comfort of thought. Best wishes and cheers to you  anyway :)

 

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On 2/11/2023 at 7:28 AM, Art D said:

 

Weezer: “Society desperately needs some kind of healthy, evidence based "spirit" or ideology to hold humanity together.” Probably true. But even if it did not need it, a simple search for truth might lead to a ideology that serves that purpose.

 

In 60 years of searching for religious truth my conclusion about god is in my signature at the bottom of this post.  Since we have no "hard" evidence of him/her/it, I decided him/her/it is a concept we have in our individual minds.  And I believe the ideology needed to hold humanity together is in loving neighbor as self.  Jesus may or may not have existed, but that statement in my mind is profound.  It is an improved version of the golden rule, and is profound and scientifically sound, but has been ignored for ages.  Human egos ignore it.  To me, that is religious or moral truth.  

 

What is your idea of truth?

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1 hour ago, Weezer said:

In 60 years of searching for religious truth my conclusion about god is in my signature at the bottom of this post.  Since we have no "hard" evidence of him/her/it, I decided him/her/it is a concept we have in our individual minds.  And I believe the ideology needed to hold humanity together is in loving neighbor as self.  Jesus may or may not have existed, but that statement in my mind is profound.  It is an improved version of the golden rule, and is profound and scientifically sound, but has been ignored for ages.  Human egos ignore it.  To me, that is religious or moral truth.  

 

What is your idea of truth?

 

A couple of concepts in my mind of a god I coud believe in, is, (1) that which promotes "good".   Or (2) that which gives or promotes life, and "life to it's fullest" (quality of life for the whole of society).  And with that line of thinking is the concept of everyone having a potential of "god" within themselves.  They have to have the will for life and chose to use it for the promotion of life to its fullest.  To do that, everyone has to ask a question.  Is what i am about to do, or say, going to, in the long run, benefit the whole of society?  Or is just because that is what my selfish ego wants?  

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1 hour ago, Weezer said:

 

A couple of concepts in my mind of a god I coud believe in, is, (1) that which promotes "good".   Or (2) that which gives or promotes life, and "life to it's fullest" (quality of life for the whole of society).  And with that line of thinking is the concept of everyone having a potential of "god" within themselves.  They have to have the will for life and chose to use it for the promotion of life to its fullest.  To do that, everyone has to ask a question.  Is what i am about to do, or say, going to, in the long run, benefit the whole of society?  Or is just because that is what my selfish ego wants?  

I toy around with a modified version of pantheism at times.  My version is based on the harmony that is built into ecosystems, out of evolutionary necessity, wherein every part of the ecosystem has a proper place and a proper role.  When everything is in its place and performing its function, there is balance and harmony.  Even the predators are an integral part of that balance; without them certain prey species would overpopulate and strip the ecosystem of its resources, and, therefore, its balance also.

 

"Good" exists, or is achieved, by being in one's own place and playing one's own role.  "Evil", then, is imbalance, disharmony, caused by being in the wrong place and/or doing the wrong things.  All of the things that are in the right place and doing the right things create a gestalt, wherein the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  This gestalt is "god"; or, more precisely, "harmony." 

 

Obviously this is not something I would worship or pray to.  My "religion", if I had one, would simply boil down to living in harmony within my own ecosystem and thus contributing my part to the gestalt.

 

I've got an extra pair of hip waders you can borrow if that shit just got too deep for you.  😆

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

I've got an extra pair of hip waders you can borrow if that shit just got too deep for you.  😆

 

Actually I believe you are "spot on."  But I think we are both, in a sense, in the same boat.  And probably in the same boat with a lot of people. Intellectually we know what we "should" do, but our red neck (I'm literally an Okie from Muskogee) egos kick in and say "to hell with that---be tough---stand up for your rights (and wants)---it's eye for eye and tooth for tooth",---and the Hatfields and McCoys are at it again.  Our intellect and our emotions/ego are not always in sync.  At least my intellect is in frequent battle with my ego.  My younger daughter once told me I was the king of sarcasm.

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

I've got an extra pair of hip waders you can borrow if that shit just got too deep for you.  😆

 

Actually I believe you are "spot on."  But I think we are both, in a sense, in the same boat.  And probably in the same boat with a lot of people. Intellectually we know what we "should" do, but our red neck (I'm literally an Okie from Muskogee) egos kick in and say "to hell with that---be tough---stand up for your rights (and wants)---it's eye for eye and tooth for tooth",---and the Hatfields and McCoys are at it again.  Our intellect and our emotions/egos are not always in sync.  My younger daughter once told me I was the king of sarcasm.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for answering, Art D. I can't demonstrate or even make a rhetorical attempt at persuading someone that there is no Ground of Being (with capital letters). I don't see reason to hold that there is One such ground, if there is one, or that the GoB is a single entity.

 

Have you gotten into Aquinas' Five Ways? Or other twists he gives to cosmological arguments? If so, do you have views on their validity and/or soundness?

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On 2/10/2023 at 7:49 AM, Art D said:

God exists. Religions are flawed attempts to relate to God. Flawed in that religions contain myths and, often, silly fairy tales. When someone realizes religion's flaws, they may 1) turn to atheism; 2) rationalize away religions' flaws; 3) leave religions' nonsense behind and advance towards truth, to where God becomes the teacher.

 

I can appreciate the attempt to separate the concept of God away from religion, but you're right out the gate with "God Exists."

 

This obviously can't be the God of flawed religions and silly fairy tales by way of your own logic. 

 

That puts the Biblical myths off the table. But the eastern myths are full fledged religions too, so that would seem to take them off the table. 

 

You've removed 1) western mythological 'dualism' and 2) eastern mythological 'non-dualism' while cutting off religions, myths, and fairy tales. 

 

So, what does that leave for your premise that God exists? 

 

The very term, "God," is born of these same said 'religions, myths, and silly fairytales.'  

 

 

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On 2/10/2023 at 6:49 AM, Art D said:

God exists. Religions are flawed attempts to relate to God. Flawed in that religions contain myths and, often, silly fairy tales. When someone realizes religion's flaws, they may 1) turn to atheism; 2) rationalize away religions' flaws; 3) leave religions' nonsense behind and advance towards truth, to where God becomes the teacher.

 

Why do you insist on calling this "concept", "energy", "being", or what ever it is, God?  Can you describe it?  And do you have evidence for she/he/it's existance?  I'm not saying that something does not exist that our primative brains don't understand yet, but why insist on calling it "God"?  

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18 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

Why do you insist on calling this "concept", "energy", "being", or what ever it is, God?  Can you describe it?  And do you have evidence for she/he/it's existance?  I'm not saying that something does not exist that our primative brains don't understand yet, but why insist on calling it "God"?  

 

It would be nice if he tries to confront our questions. 

 

That's the biggest glaring question of all: 

 

Why call primary Consciousness, Energy, Being, Reality, Existence, the ALL, Source, God???

 

If God is a symbolic concept - which is academically demonstrable - then there's no chance that it could refer to anything other something else, something that the symbol entitled "God" points at. Which necessarily can't be literally, the symbol used to do the pointing at something else.

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I question if he is the one hanging onto "God", or he doesn't want to scare off his readers by using other terminology.  I am reading some stuff by Paul Wallis and he also holds onto the God term.  He is an ex-Anglican minister from England.  He has some very interesting views about how the Old Testament narcissistic, vengeful god came about, which make sense, but otherwise has some far out ideas.  He wrote the series of books,  ESCAPING FROM EDEN.

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