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Goodbye Jesus

The Soul Hypothesis


Reverend AtheiStar

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http://www.reverendatheistar.com/proving_a_negative2.htm

 

Next on the list is the "soul," or more correctly, the soul hypothesis. If this hypothesis of human consciousness and animation can be disproved then the afterlife disappears and we, as species, can be shown to be totally natural organisms who operate as organic machines. Without this "soul," there is neither a need for saving from a negative scenario, nor the striving for a positive, and the entire religious scheme falls apart! By showing the soul hypothesis is utter nonsense we can effectively remove the vital link between people and their imaginary creations: gods and goddesses.

 

Let's begin by defining what exactly is meant by this "soul." What is it? Dictionary.com defines "soul" as being "the animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity."

 

Now let's look at the word "brain." The same site defines this term as "the portion of the vertebrate central nervous system that is enclosed within the cranium, continuous with the spinal cord, and composed of gray matter and white matter. It is the primary center for the regulation and control of bodily activities, receiving and interpreting sensory impulses, and transmitting information to the muscles and body organs. It is also the seat of consciousness, thought, memory, and emotion."

 

Now, can anyone see the similarities between the two terms? They both are supposed to be involved in thoughts, actions, emotions, and though the above definition doesn't say so specifically, the source of consciousness, as well. Primitives, not knowing anything about the brain, assigned all these responsibilities to this "soul" because they knew no better. Scientists, armed with CAT scans, MRIs, extensive experience with brain surgery, findings from psychology and psychiatry, have been able to piece together the truth about what the brain does. Where does this leave the soul?

 

Our new understanding of the functions of the brain put the soul squarely where it belongs: within the context of mythology. It has been relegated to the same realm as ghosts, goblins, fairies, leprechauns and other fictional creations from the mind of man.

 

This same understanding has also totally annihilated the so-called Near Death Experience! They can be shown to just be a product of our brains as they can be reproduced in the lab. These experiences have been demonstrated to be creations of the mind in three ground breaking experiments. In one, Dr. Karl Jansen was able to reproduce all the features of this experience with an intravenous administration of 50 - 100 mg of ketamine. The second was an experiment done by neurologist Olaf Blanke of Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland. Blanke found that electrically stimulating one brain region — the right angular gyrus — repeatedly triggers out-of-body experiences. The third was conducted by neuroscientist Michael Persinger, in his laboratory at Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario. He found he could induce all these perceptions in subjects by subjecting their temporal lobes to patterns of magnetic fields.

 

NDEs also tend to be religion-specific. They follow the expectations of the subject and are bound by their culture. This has been demonstrated in numerous studies (Osis, 1975, Pasricha, 1986, Schorer, 1985-86, Kellehear, 1993). This means that whatever mythology they have been programmed to believe and the culture they've grown up in will manifest itself in what they see. If they have been taught to be believe in karma and a large pantheon of gods and goddesses, well, this is precisely what they experience. If they have been taught about devils, angels, and fluffy white clouds, however, then this is theirs. It's all dependent on the beliefs and experiences of the subject.

 

Albert Einstein, arguably one of the most intelligent men ever to live, was quoted, in his obituary in the New York Times, as having had said "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms." He, as a scientist, could see plainly that this "soul" was nonsense.

 

What about the people who say that the brain is where the soul resides? What if it is the "ghost in the machine?" What if this "soul" acts like a little person in a control room throwing switches and pressing buttons? What if, indeed. Where is the evidence for such a proposition? Why would it be needed? The brain, with all it's various interlocking components, functions fine without the need for any supernatural intervention.

 

Our consciousness is a product of a living brain. Does a heart need a "soul" in order to beat? Does a liver need a "soul" in order to detoxify the blood? Does a stomach need a "soul" in order to digest food? Do white blood cells need a "soul" in order scavenge our body for pathogens? If none of these organs needs assistance, then why should the brain be any different?

 

The "ghost in the machine" can also be shown to be illogical as it would suffer from an infinite regress. If the brain requires an internal, but separate, "operator" because our consciousness allegedly cannot be explained by the brain itself, then this operator must be subject to the same rule. What drives it? How can it be conscious? The operator must have an operator to operate it! That operator, in turn, would also need an operator and so on and so forth. It would never end.

 

Besides not being needed to explain any of the phenomena of consciousness, this "soul" is likewise not needed to explain how we are alive. To see just how obvious this is, one need only look at our reproductive system. Living sperm is created inside the testicles. Living eggs are created within the ovaries. A sperm joins with an egg and a living embryo is produced shortly thereafter. Now, where exactly would this "soul" be needed? Where in this process would an infusion of life be required? Not anywhere that I can see. You add life to life and you get life. Could it be any simpler?

 

Now that we can see that this "soul" isn't needed to explain anything, let's move onto the aspects of it's mythology that are completely nonsensical by asking a few pointed questions. Why, if this "soul" can supposedly do everything a brain can do in the alleged afterlife (whichever one), then why is a brain needed in the first place? Following this same logic, why, when a person acquires a brain injury doesn't this "soul" take over? Why does Alzheimer's matter? How can anyone be mentally retarded? Are humans the only one with this "soul?" Why or why not? If they aren't, does this mean that, along with all the multicellular animals on the planet, single-celled organisms have it, too? Why or why not? If this is granted, then it would have to mean that our own cells, such as skin, intestinal, liver, muscular, would also have to have this "animating principal." If not, then why? If everything has this soul, does this mean that each has it's own afterlife? Is there a Heaven and Hell for bacteria? Are winged sperm greeted in paradise by 72 eggs? Do flies get judged for their actions?

 

All these questions are vitally important because they expose just how flawed and unintelligent the whole theory is. Believers, when confronted with such an interrogation, should be forced to think about why they believe in something so ridiculous. Hopefully, it will lead to an unraveling of the entire mythological system and this person will be freed.

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Excellent article, Reverend AtheiStar! Glory!

 

Our new understanding of the functions of the brain put the soul squarely where it belongs: within the context of mythology. It has been relegated to the same realm as ghosts, goblins, fairies, leprechauns and other fictional creations from the mind of man.

 

Amen, Brother! My Invisible Friend - who happens to be a leprechaun - is REAL, though!

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Excellent article, Reverend AtheiStar! Glory!

 

Our new understanding of the functions of the brain put the soul squarely where it belongs: within the context of mythology. It has been relegated to the same realm as ghosts, goblins, fairies, leprechauns and other fictional creations from the mind of man.

 

Amen, Brother! My Invisible Friend - who happens to be a leprechaun - is REAL, though!

 

 

Oh shit! Really? I hope you're using your wishes wisely! lol...

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Oh yes, very wisely! lol...

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:)Reverend AtheiStar, this is a very interesting approach. However, you seem to be assuming that nothing exists beyond these abilities to be perceived by our 5 senses. Some people believe that all knowledge and existence is not bound within these perameters. Do we have access or the ability to access ALL there is? Personally, I think not... at this time.

 

I consider the soul as probably our brain, as what combines the 'spirit' and the body... which creates a living soul/brain. We now know that the spirit is probably NOT what animates life, by the likelihood of the theory of abiogenesis as the process that gave life its persistent catalytic stimulated interactions. Consciousness and awareness may be another matter. :wicked:

 

IF there is a spirit dwelling in our body... then it uses this body as a vehicle to experience life here. It's ability to interact with this world would therefore depend on the working functions of its vehicle, much the same way you would depend on your computer to communicate with us right now. If your computer has a virus, or other problems which inhibit its function, does this mean YOU do not exist?

 

The one mistake, IMO, that religion makes it to think they have the absolute truth. *sigh* I think that our discovery of our spiritual aspects should be evolving much the same way science is. Additionally, I think that EVERYONE will end in the same place of peace and joy.

 

Are you familiar with Brian Weiss, who was head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach? He wrote a book called Many Lives, Many Masters that documents his surprised interaction during therapy... using hypnosis... when a patient spontaneously went into a past life. She did this over and over again! You can find more about that here.

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:) Reverend AtheiStar, this is a very interesting approach. However, you seem to be assuming that nothing exists beyond these abilities to be perceived by our 5 senses.

 

No, I'm really not. You're assuming that I am assuming this. There are wavelengths of light, for instance, that cannot be seen by the naked eye.

 

Some people believe that all knowledge and existence is not bound within these perameters. Do we have access or the ability to access ALL there is? Personally, I think not... at this time.

 

No, we don't. There's plenty we don't know. That doesn't mean that the soul can survive scientific scrutiny, though. You do not need to "know all" in order to disprove this fanciful delusion. One way is to merely provide a much better explanation for what the soul is trying to. Emotions? Not the product of a ghost in the machine! It's been well documented by modern science that emotions are the product of a complex interplay between the brain, chemicals and the rest of the body. Here's an excellent aticle on what love can be broken down to:

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/science_of_love.htm

 

I consider the soul as probably our brain, as what combines the 'spirit' and the body... which creates a living soul/brain.

 

Soul/brain? What's that? Some kind of mythological chimera? The brain is alive because of the blood and nutrients the arteries surrounding it provide. It continues living through cell division and repair. Where does this "soul" fit it? It's not needed. It's completely uneccesary!

 

We now know that the spirit is probably NOT what animates life, by the likelihood of the theory of abiogenesis as the process that gave life its persistent catalytic stimulated interactions. Consciousness and awareness may be another matter. :wicked:

 

We know that consciousness and awareness are products of the brain just as breathing is a function of the lungs, pumping blood is the function of the heart and purification is the product of the liver and kidneys. Here's an excellent article on the subject:

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/the_mind_..._brain_does.htm

 

Note the title! :)

 

IF there is a spirit dwelling in our body... then it uses this body as a vehicle to experience life here. It's ability to interact with this world would therefore depend on the working functions of its vehicle, much the same way you would depend on your computer to communicate with us right now. If your computer has a virus, or other problems which inhibit its function, does this mean YOU do not exist?

 

I really don't see the logic in your analogy.

 

The one mistake, IMO, that religion makes it to think they have the absolute truth. *sigh* I think that our discovery of our spiritual aspects should be evolving much the same way science is. Additionally, I think that EVERYONE will end in the same place of peace and joy.

 

Actutally, science is constantly debunking and disproving the charlatans that take advantage of the emotions of people who have had to suffer through losing a loved one. We will not end up in a place of peace and joy. We end up in a place of nothing, or nonexistence. No worries, no anything. Imagine the eternity before you were concieved. It will be the same afterward.

 

Are you familiar with Brian Weiss, who was head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach? He wrote a book called Many Lives, Many Masters that documents his surprised interaction during therapy... using hypnosis... when a patient spontaneously went into a past life. She did this over and over again! You can find more about that here.

 

Sounds like another conman. How much does his book(s) retail for? How much does he charge his patients? How much does he charge to appear at a convention where his books are hawked? This guy is no better than those psychic hotline people who always seem to go bankrupt.

 

You're assuming hypnosis is real. That is your first mistake. This pseudoscience has been debunked quite throughly by the good folks at Bullshit! Just like the psychics on tv, it's for entertainment purposes only. To take it seriously would be a mistake.

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Imagine the eternity before you were concieved. It will be the same afterward.

I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born, and it bothered me not at all. It will be the same after I die. Glory!

 

Are you familiar with Brian Weiss, who was head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach? He wrote a book called Many Lives, Many Masters that documents his surprised interaction during therapy... using hypnosis... when a patient spontaneously went into a past life. She did this over and over again! You can find more about that here.

I am familiar with the book. I have read it, though it's been a few years back. At the time, I was impressed with it because I had a belief in reincarnation. But now I have to agree with Rev. AtheiStar's assessment. When we die, we die. That's it. Lights out. What's so bad about nonexistence, though? There is nothing bad in not living!

 

"Grow accustomed to the belief that death is nothing to us, since every good and evil lie in sensation. However, death is the deprivation of sensation. Therefore, correct understanding that death is nothing to us makes a mortal life enjoyable, not by adding an endless span of time but by taking away the longing for immortality. For there is nothing dreadful in life for the man who has truly comprehended that there is nothing terrible in not living. Therefore, foolish is the man who says that he fears death, not because it will cause pain when it arrives but because anticipation of it is painful. What is no trouble when it arrives is an idle worry in anticipation. Death, therefore -- the most dreadful of evils -- is nothing to us, since while we exist, death is not present, and whenever death is present, we do not exist. It is nothing either to the living or the dead, since it does not exist for the living, and the dead no longer are." - Brother Epicurus, Ancient Greek Philosopher

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Our consciousness is a product of a living brain. Does a heart need a "soul" in order to beat? Does a liver need a "soul" in order to detoxify the blood? Does a stomach need a "soul" in order to digest food? Do white blood cells need a "soul" in order scavenge our body for pathogens? If none of these organs needs assistance, then why should the brain be any different?

 

What is the life that grows these organs? And why should they all co operate to produce a living being?

What is this mysterious force we call "life"?

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What is this mysterious force we call "life"?

That's the key question.

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No, we don't. There's plenty we don't know. That doesn't mean that the soul can survive scientific scrutiny, though. You do not need to "know all" in order to disprove this fanciful delusion. One way is to merely provide a much better explanation for what the soul is trying to. Emotions? Not the product of a ghost in the machine! It's been well documented by modern science that emotions are the product of a complex interplay between the brain, chemicals and the rest of the body. Here's an excellent aticle on what love can be broken down to:

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/science_of_love.htm

:)Reverend AtheiStar, which came first... the chicken or the egg? How do we know it isn't that once this process was initially induced by a response from love... that it is now 'anchored' into our brain area with its metabolic process now installed... much like the bell ringing for Pavlov's dog and there is now no food, yet salivation persists when the bell rings? You say the chemical reactions create the response... yet, how do we know it is not the other way around?

 

Soul/brain? What's that? Some kind of mythological chimera? The brain is alive because of the blood and nutrients the arteries surrounding it provide. It continues living through cell division and repair. Where does this "soul" fit it? It's not needed. It's completely uneccesary!

 

I know, I know my friend... that is the body's participation/influence on the brain. IMO, there is a 'spiritual' influence also... AND yes, emotions are a big part of this.

 

We know that consciousness and awareness are products of the brain just as breathing is a function of the lungs, pumping blood is the function of the heart and purification is the product of the liver and kidneys.

 

Again, this is just the hardware we must cater to that keeps the vehicle running. Even Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs says that we seek the level of self actualization. IF the body was totally driven by mere chemical stimulus... and evolution guided its direction entirely... then we would not have people that are philanthropist, self sacrificing, or compassionate to a fault. Why are we hardwired to perpetuate 'life' beyond ourself, and a better one for others to come... if it is our only time now that would count for us? Why would we care, according to those chemical reactions responsible for everything?

 

We will not end up in a place of peace and joy. We end up in a place of nothing, or nonexistence. No worries, no anything. Imagine the eternity before you were concieved. It will be the same afterward.

 

You do admit, this can only be your opinion... right? No one KNOWS! Again, there may be situations that go beyond our 5 senses.

 

Sounds like another conman. How much does his book(s) retail for? How much does he charge his patients? How much does he charge to appear at a convention where his books are hawked? This guy is no better than those psychic hotline people who always seem to go bankrupt.

 

C'mon Reverend... you can't say that about EVERYONE that doesn't fit into your hypothesis. This guy had everything to lose!!! He was the head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai... NOT the Christian only rules hospital of the Bible belt! Please! He jepardized his whole career, that was impressively successful, with the release of this story! It was something he could not contain within himself with a clear conscience.

 

You're assuming hypnosis is real. That is your first mistake. This pseudoscience has been debunked quite throughly by the good folks at Bullshit! Just like the psychics on tv, it's for entertainment purposes only. To take it seriously would be a mistake.

 

You obviously don't know what hypnosis is! The average person naturally goes into a state of hypnosis on the average of every 90 minutes. If hypnosis is debunked psuedoscience... please tell the forensic department of every major police department in the country! Tell that to many, many major psychologist/psychiatrist that use it to find suppressed memory. I know a counselor that used hypnosis to gain access to suppressed memory and said that he gets about 1 in 15 clients that spontaneously goes into a past life! Past life regression is now becoming the cutting edge of psychology! More here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression

 

I'm curious as to what you'd have to say about another site I found today and used it on another thread. Considering that you think that hypnosis is debunked, this may be another one of those studies that doesn't agree with your theory... yet seems to have been done in your scientific style.

 

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/a...cts/v13n2a1.php

 

BTW, I have the utmost respect for your scientific mind... you're certainly much more accomplished in the concrete evaluations, outcomes, and understandings than most people! You certainly know more than I, it's just that I don't think anyone knows everything. :shrug::)

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**

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What is the life that grows these organs? And why should they all co operate to produce a living being?

What is this mysterious force we call "life"?

 

It's not a force, it's a product. All living organisms, properly thought of, are nothing more than organic robots. Does a car need a "soul" to run? Does a computer? Does a watch? How about something complex like an autonomous robot? No, no, no, no, no. Just as they don't, we don't. By adding the extra, artificial "soul" or "life force" we unnecessarily add something that there's absolutely no need for.

 

 

What is this mysterious force we call "life"?

That's the key question.

 

I think it's more of a statement than a question. It's completely loaded. It's mysterious. Spooky! It's a "force." Eeeeek! I say it's neither.

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Hey Mr. ReverendSexystar,

 

So, you came in again as me. Well, I didn't know you loved me so much you wanted to be me :wicked:

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:) Reverend AtheiStar, which came first... the chicken or the egg?

 

A better question would be which came first, the egg layers or placentals. We know from the fossil record, it was the egg layers. Or which came first the chicken or the dinosuar. Since birds evolved from small therapod dinosaurs, it'd be the dinosaur. But your question is more appropriate to ask had I taken a small square coated with LSD or inhaled a large bong full of marijuana smoke as it's obviously designed to be unaswerable. It's meant to make your head spin as you rotate the equation in your mind.

 

How do we know it isn't that once this process was initially induced by a response from love... that it is now 'anchored' into our brain area with its metabolic process now installed... much like the bell ringing for Pavlov's dog and there is now no food, yet salivation persists when the bell rings? You say the chemical reactions create the response... yet, how do we know it is not the other way around?

 

<yawwwn> Because of the evidence. If you can prove to me your position, then you would have some standing. But since it's merely conjecture, it's within the realm of the imagination. Why not go deeper since we're day dreaming? What if we're in The Matrix? What if we're really nothing but programs inside a computer like in The Thirteenth Floor? What if, what if, what if? This can be fun but without proof I can't take you seriously.

 

I know, I know my friend... that is the body's participation/influence on the brain. IMO, there is a 'spiritual' influence also... AND yes, emotions are a big part of this.

 

Evidence, please. Why is this "spirit" needed? Why, when the whole system works fine without it?

 

Again, this is just the hardware we must cater to that keeps the vehicle running.

 

The hardware is us. The brain is the one thing you could remove from the body that would remove the person. You take off your arm, you've just lost an arm. You take off a leg, you've lost a leg. But the brain contains all that is you.

 

I'll ask this again. If this spirit can survive after death and think without brain, why do we even have a brain? Why does brain damage matter? Why does Alzheimers? If you would just critically analyze the "soul hypotheis" you'd see it just doesn't make any sense.

 

IF the body was totally driven by mere chemical stimulus... and evolution guided its direction entirely... then we would not have people that are philanthropist, self sacrificing, or compassionate to a fault. Why are we hardwired to perpetuate 'life' beyond ourself, and a better one for others to come... if it is our only time now that would count for us? Why would we care, according to those chemical reactions responsible for everything?

 

We wouldn't have these types of people because you say so? lol... I fail to see where you provided evidence for your position. All I see is you throwing out basely assumptions.

 

You do admit, this can only be your opinion... right? No one KNOWS! Again, there may be situations that go beyond our 5 senses.

 

Have you seen the definition of "know?" Anyone can "know" as it just means to "percieve with clarity" or to "believe without doubt." It's only a form of belief. You don't have to be correct, but you can "know!"

 

Again, there are situations that go beyond our five sense. This doesn't mean that the imaginary soul is real. There's no need for it. It's an extra step. Are you familar with Occam's Razor? It slices the "soul hypothesis" to shreds!

 

C'mon Reverend... you can't say that about EVERYONE that doesn't fit into your hypothesis.

 

I didn't. I've just seen many, many, many conmen in this field of exploitation. They seem to flock to it. And why not? Believers like this are so gullible! It's a conman's dream! Follow a simple formula and they fork out the cash!

 

This guy had everything to lose!!! He was the head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai

 

How exactly does he have everything to lose in a society that worships bullshit like this? He has everything to gain! He has everything to lose if he rejected it and went the other way. Atheists are America's Most Hated, sweetheart, not believers. They rule the country and dominate just about everything. If anything, he's completely insulated against successful attacks because he's a believer and in a high position! You have it completely backwards.

 

NOT the Christian only rules hospital of the Bible belt! Please! He jepardized his whole career, that was impressively successful, with the release of this story! It was something he could not contain within himself with a clear conscience.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bullshit! He pretended that that was the case just to suck up the the all-too-common persecution complex that resides in the majority of believers in this country. This was, I'm sure, all part of his marketing strategy to seel his books, tv shows, radio appearances, groupies, etc. He knew he had everything to gain and played his cards just right. Look how he fooled you!

 

You obviously don't know what hypnosis is!

 

I do, though. It's a stage act. It's not that different from card tricks and magic shows.

 

The average person naturally goes into a state of hypnosis on the average of every 90 minutes.

 

Sure. Evidence for this, please. Oh, that's right, I'm supposed to believe by faith. I've never been under "hypnosis" in my life. Bullshit! Sorry, had to call it, again.

 

If hypnosis is debunked psuedoscience... please tell the forensic department of every major police department in the country!

 

I'd like to. Our police departments are much too entwined in this bunk. It'll be a great day when they finally cut the ties with this people.

 

Past life regression is now becoming the cutting edge of psychology!

 

They are not uncovering suppressed memories, they are adding new ones. I've watched these people in action. They phrase their questions like statements! It's just so obvious, but America has been fooled by Hollywood into believing this crap.

 

I'm curious as to what you'd have to say about another site I found today and used it on another thread. Considering that you think that hypnosis is debunked, this may be another one of those studies that doesn't agree with your theory... yet seems to have been done in your scientific style.

 

It's done in a scientific style and that makes it legit? Intelligent Design is done in a scientific style, as is UFO reserach, as is Bigfoot, as is hypnotism. Adding science to something false is exactly what pseudoscience is. It's an imitation.

 

BTW, I have the utmost respect for your scientific mind... you're certainly much more accomplished in the concrete evaluations, outcomes, and understandings than most people! You certainly know more than I, it's just that I don't think anyone knows everything. :shrug::)

 

Thank you. I'm really not trying to be an asshole here, but subjects like this get me all fired up. It's frustrating to me when peope hold onto mythology in favor of reality, despite evdience to the contrary.

 

Hey Mr. ReverendSexystar,

 

So, you came in again as me. Well, I didn't know you loved me so much you wanted to be me :wicked:

 

Huh? What? I thought I saw you say that I came in you, again? ;)

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:)Reverend AtheiStar, this is a very interesting approach. However, you seem to be assuming that nothing exists beyond these abilities to be perceived by our 5 senses. Some people believe that all knowledge and existence is not bound within these perameters. Do we have access or the ability to access ALL there is? Personally, I think not... at this time.

 

I consider the soul as probably our brain, as what combines the 'spirit' and the body... which creates a living soul/brain. We now know that the spirit is probably NOT what animates life, by the likelihood of the theory of abiogenesis as the process that gave life its persistent catalytic stimulated interactions. Consciousness and awareness may be another matter. :wicked:

 

IF there is a spirit dwelling in our body... then it uses this body as a vehicle to experience life here. It's ability to interact with this world would therefore depend on the working functions of its vehicle, much the same way you would depend on your computer to communicate with us right now. If your computer has a virus, or other problems which inhibit its function, does this mean YOU do not exist?

 

The one mistake, IMO, that religion makes it to think they have the absolute truth. *sigh* I think that our discovery of our spiritual aspects should be evolving much the same way science is. Additionally, I think that EVERYONE will end in the same place of peace and joy.

 

Are you familiar with Brian Weiss, who was head of the psychiatry department at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach? He wrote a book called Many Lives, Many Masters that documents his surprised interaction during therapy... using hypnosis... when a patient spontaneously went into a past life. She did this over and over again! You can find more about that here.

 

You do realize that by saying sprit and soul you're saying the same thing right? Not only that but sprit, soul and ghosts are all the same thing. Unless you're using sprit in a different way it means ghost. Which is what makes me laugh when someone says "the sprit of god" or "the holy sprit."

 

My main reason for not believing in ghosts, souls and sprits is an afterlife. To believe in an afterlife you'd have to believe that ghosts exist. If you look into the study of ghosts you'll find they don't really exist. The closest thing I've seen is a guy who talks about an imprint in the brain combined with magnetic fields.

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It's frustrating to me when peope hold onto mythology in favor of reality, despite evdience to the contrary.

Same here! Jesus loves you! He is the Ultimate Reality! Glory!

 

Seriously, I wish that Christians could see the reality - the FACT - that their god is just a character in an ancient book! The ONLY place that god, satan, heaven, hell, etc. have any reality is within the pages of an ancient book!

 

I'm getting all fired up, too! Glory! :woohoo:

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It's frustrating to me when peope hold onto mythology in favor of reality, despite evdience to the contrary.

Same here! Jesus loves you! He is the Ultimate Reality! Glory!

 

Seriously, I wish that Christians could see the reality - the FACT - that their god is just a character in an ancient book! The ONLY place that god, satan, heaven, hell, etc. have any reality is within the pages of an ancient book!

 

I'm getting all fired up, too! Glory! :woohoo:

 

Woo hoo! Is is quite an exquisite high, is it not? Ah, I guess I'm just an adrenaline junky like those crazy bungee jumper people!

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You obviously don't know what hypnosis is! The average person naturally goes into a state of hypnosis on the average of every 90 minutes

 

Is this something that happens to everyone at the same time? I'm trying to figure out how this would happen and no one notice. They did a show on hypnosis on the discover or TLC chennel, they came up with it's something you have to imagine. This man had people up on stage, told them what to do and they did it. After the show they were asked what it felt like. They said they were totally awake the whole time but chose to go with it. Apparently, non of them knew they were being hypnotized either.

 

Now the fact that they all said the same thing without hearing what the other said along with the fact that they went along with what the "Dr." said makes sense. I have thought about myself and how I'd act if somone hypnotized me. I also thought about movies and shows that I've seen where people have been hypnotized. I don't think it would work given all the facts about how it is done. Wave a something infront of someone and talk softly and slowly, lets see what happens.

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It's frustrating to me when peope hold onto mythology in favor of reality, despite evdience to the contrary.

Same here! Jesus loves you! He is the Ultimate Reality! Glory!

 

Seriously, I wish that Christians could see the reality - the FACT - that their god is just a character in an ancient book! The ONLY place that god, satan, heaven, hell, etc. have any reality is within the pages of an ancient book!

 

I'm getting all fired up, too! Glory! :woohoo:

 

Woo hoo! Is is quite an exquisite high, is it not? Ah, I guess I'm just an adrenaline junky like those crazy bungee jumper people!

Yes, it is an exquisite high! Glory be unto GAWD!!

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It's frustrating to me when peope hold onto mythology in favor of reality, despite evdience to the contrary.

Same here! Jesus loves you! He is the Ultimate Reality! Glory!

 

Seriously, I wish that Christians could see the reality - the FACT - that their god is just a character in an ancient book! The ONLY place that god, satan, heaven, hell, etc. have any reality is within the pages of an ancient book!

 

I'm getting all fired up, too! Glory! :woohoo:

 

Woo hoo! Is is quite an exquisite high, is it not? Ah, I guess I'm just an adrenaline junky like those crazy bungee jumper people!

Yes, it is an exquisite high! Glory be unto GAWD!!

 

No! His name is LAWD! You have blaphemed His holy name! You must die now!!!! Die heretic scum!!!! lol...

 

You obviously don't know what hypnosis is! The average person naturally goes into a state of hypnosis on the average of every 90 minutes

 

Is this something that happens to everyone at the same time? I'm trying to figure out how this would happen and no one notice.

 

It's observed across the globe every hour and a half! It truly is amazing that there aren't more accidents because of this strange ubiquitous phenomenon! lol... It must be the LAWD!!! lol...

 

p.s. You wouldn't notice because we'd all be under at the same exact time and then snap back at the same instant, too. lol...

 

You do realize that by saying sprit and soul you're saying the same thing right? Not only that but sprit, soul and ghosts are all the same thing. Unless you're using sprit in a different way it means ghost. Which is what makes me laugh when someone says "the sprit of god" or "the holy sprit."

 

You mean ghosts aren't real? But I've watched Casper the Friendly Ghost and it looked so convincing! Man, next you'll be telling me that rabbit's feet aren't lucky and that leprechauns don't exist! Sheesh! lol...

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No! His name is LAWD! You have blaphemed His holy name! You must die now!!!! Die heretic scum!!!! lol...

Oh, SHIT!!! I've pissed off a loving religious fanatic! Please love me to death in Jesus' Name, okay? lol...

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It's observed across the globe every hour and a half! It truly is amazing that there aren't more accidents because of this strange ubiquitous phenomenon! lol... It must be the LAWD!!! lol...

 

p.s. You wouldn't notice because we'd all be under at the same exact time and then snap back at the same instant, too. lol...

 

You do realize that by saying sprit and soul you're saying the same thing right? Not only that but sprit, soul and ghosts are all the same thing. Unless you're using sprit in a different way it means ghost. Which is what makes me laugh when someone says "the sprit of god" or "the holy sprit."

 

You mean ghosts aren't real? But I've watched Casper the Friendly Ghost and it looked so convincing! Man, next you'll be telling me that rabbit's feet aren't lucky and that leprechauns don't exist! Sheesh! lol...

 

:lmao: You're so silly!

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No! His name is LAWD! You have blaphemed His holy name! You must die now!!!! Die heretic scum!!!! lol...

Oh, SHIT!!! I've pissed off a loving religious fanatic! Please love me to death in Jesus' Name, okay? lol...

 

Now you stop that mister! You watch it! I'm prepared to say stop again, if I have to! lol...

 

 

 

It's observed across the globe every hour and a half! It truly is amazing that there aren't more accidents because of this strange ubiquitous phenomenon! lol... It must be the LAWD!!! lol...

 

p.s. You wouldn't notice because we'd all be under at the same exact time and then snap back at the same instant, too. lol...

 

You do realize that by saying sprit and soul you're saying the same thing right? Not only that but sprit, soul and ghosts are all the same thing. Unless you're using sprit in a different way it means ghost. Which is what makes me laugh when someone says "the sprit of god" or "the holy sprit."

 

You mean ghosts aren't real? But I've watched Casper the Friendly Ghost and it looked so convincing! Man, next you'll be telling me that rabbit's feet aren't lucky and that leprechauns don't exist! Sheesh! lol...

 

:lmao: You're so silly!

 

You know it! :58:

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:)Good day Reverend AtheiStar! Hey... I don't mean to get you fired up... in a negative way anyway! Just remember... it doesn't matter what my opinion is... nor yours for this matter... it doesn't change what Truth is. The more choices/possibilities/options we have to explore... the larger our boundaries... the greater our insights. This is generally a good thing. There is a lot of diversity in the science arena concerning all this too, ya' know. Did you by chance see the movie What The Bleep Do We Know? It was recommended to me on this site, and I'm so glad I watched it! I recommend it to you too, fwiw.

 

A better question would be which came first, the egg layers or placentals. We know from the fossil record, it was the egg layers.

Really? So they think the egg came first? I would have thought the one cell life forms were first, with cell division as the way to multiply... moving to more complex animals... starting with asexual... then progressing to where the cell with half the DNA for life began within each gender, progressing to processes such as half the DNA residing within the chicken, laid into the environment, then ferilized by the male. So, the egg happened first and then the chicken... are you pulling my leg? For me, it was just a saying anyway... LOL I'll be more careful about that around you from now on...

 

 

How do we know it isn't that once this process was initially induced by a response from love... that it is now 'anchored' into our brain area with its metabolic process now installed... much like the bell ringing for Pavlov's dog and there is now no food, yet salivation persists when the bell rings? You say the chemical reactions create the response... yet, how do we know it is not the other way around?

 

<yawwwn> Because of the evidence. If you can prove to me your position, then you would have some standing. But since it's merely conjecture, it's within the realm of the imagination. Why not go deeper since we're day dreaming? What if we're in The Matrix? What if we're really nothing but programs inside a computer like in The Thirteenth Floor? What if, what if, what if? This can be fun but without proof I can't take you seriously.

 

:) With all due respect... your not proving your point either. All you're saying is that there is a correlation between an emotion and a chemical reaction in the brain. I agree. You are not proving, from what I remember reading on your site, the chemical reaction produced the emotion initially. Are you familiar with the concept of 'anchors' or 'triggers' in psychology? Why is it not possible that a stimulus response has been created initially by the emotion, so that just the area being stimulated by a trigger/anchor causes the response? What seems obvious to you, may be just as obvious my perspective is to me. Do you know the metaphor of the 5 blind men and the elephant? Please give this consideration and think about what I am saying. Just because you're smarter than I doesn't mean I don't have an insight... you have not considered, does it?

 

I know, I know my friend... that is the body's participation/influence on the brain. IMO, there is a 'spiritual' influence also... AND yes, emotions are a big part of this.

 

Evidence, please. Why is this "spirit" needed? Why, when the whole system works fine without it?

I'm not sure that the 'spirit' is just an aspect within all things, emerging in some form from us. It is probably more of a controversy here, of the definition of 'spirit' than anything else. I should have clarified more the disagreement I have with your definition. It is not an aparition or of the sort, IMO. It can only be defined by its character that separates it for the purpose of knowing it. It is that feeling of awe, it is that which holds dear what is considered sacred, it is that which is within us that makes life worth living, it is the joy in meaning and purpose, it is a recognition by all cultures of something that transcends the basic human drive for survival of self, and propells the drive for love, peace/tranquility, and joy.

 

The hardware is us. The brain is the one thing you could remove from the body that would remove the person. You take off your arm, you've just lost an arm. You take off a leg, you've lost a leg. But the brain contains all that is you.

 

I'll ask this again. If this spirit can survive after death and think without brain, why do we even have a brain? Why does brain damage matter? Why does Alzheimers? If you would just critically analyze the "soul hypotheis" you'd see it just doesn't make any sense.

The body allows the spirit to experience the concrete world. This is a great gift, if not the greatest! Our spirit makes it worth living, it gives the will to thrive.

 

The total body is just a vehicle for the spirit to use to experience life... why is the brain any different? We need each part to experience life in a different way, however, the brain is a very important part of that function.... maybe like the engine to the car. Everyone may have an opinion/belief on the validity of this, although no one KNOWS 100% for sure.

 

BTW... I'm NOT trying to substantiate the fundamentalist Christian God, in any way, shape, or form!

 

Again, there are situations that go beyond our five sense. This doesn't mean that the imaginary soul is real. There's no need for it. It's an extra step. Are you familar with Occam's Razor? It slices the "soul hypothesis" to shreds!

Fine, if you want to limit your life to what it appears to be in the concrete world, and limit your understanding to only your 5 senses. If you dare to seek beyond the wall or out of the box.... and still have some sense of justification on a level that can't be explained, yet find it pervasive in all cultures... it may open a whole new world to you... :shrug:

 

I didn't. I've just seen many, many, many conmen in this field of exploitation. They seem to flock to it. And why not? Believers like this are so gullible! It's a conman's dream! Follow a simple formula and they fork out the cash!

This was NOT the case. He is too smart to make that huge of a gamble. The odds were clearly stacked against him, and releasing his findings was a truly great risk to his ability to achieve his livelihood.

 

How exactly does he have everything to lose in a society that worships bullshit like this? He has everything to gain! He has everything to lose if he rejected it and went the other way. Atheists are America's Most Hated, sweetheart, not believers.

How popular do you think the belief in reincarnation is in this country? Maybe you should read the book before you consider it the status quo. I would venture that there are a LOT more Atheist! BTW, I think there are more people that respect Atheist than not... I certainly do. It seems to me that every sect thinks they're the persecuted one... except for maybe Agnostics. Ha! They don't care! :)

 

You obviously don't know what hypnosis is!

 

I do, though. It's a stage act. It's not that different from card tricks and magic shows.

 

The average person naturally goes into a state of hypnosis on the average of every 90 minutes.

 

Sure. Evidence for this, please. Oh, that's right, I'm supposed to believe by faith. I've never been under "hypnosis" in my life. Bullshit! Sorry, had to call it, again.

 

*sigh* Hypnosis is a normal, natural state. We have many levels of awareness, as sometimes we are mentally engaged outwardly with the world to the extent such as playing tennis.... all the way to inward states like the sleeping stage/coma stage. Different levels provide higher levels of accessibilities to different capabilities. The art of hypnosis is the ability to guide one into these different levels, recognize the level, and help them use it for the particular purpose they want. This ability proves quite advantageous in the use as an anesthesia in major to minor surgery, in forensic pursuits, and therapeutic endeavors. Almost every professional knows NOT to ask/use leading questions/methods!

 

Stage hypnosis is using these abilities to have fun... not the most used/beneficial mastery. And yes, no one has control over another person... each person is in control of themself.

 

I'm curious as to what you'd have to say about another site I found today and used it on another thread. Considering that you think that hypnosis is debunked, this may be another one of those studies that doesn't agree with your theory... yet seems to have been done in your scientific style.

 

It's done in a scientific style and that makes it legit? Intelligent Design is done in a scientific style, as is UFO reserach, as is Bigfoot, as is hypnotism. Adding science to something false is exactly what pseudoscience is. It's an imitation.

:) Be careful... what's good for the goose... is good for the gander. :Look: What makes that particular study any less legit than the ones you may site?

 

Again... you have a tremendously wonderful mind... and consider you a great resource for many questions I've had! :wicked: Still, I think there is nothing wrong with asking yourself "what if" every once and awhile...

 

:)Brother Jeff, I know we seldon agree, if ever, on things... yet I meant to mention earlier it is good to see you! I haven't seen you in a thread, which I've been participating, for a long time.

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What if we're really nothing but programs inside a computer like in The Thirteenth Floor?

Sidetrack: I liked the 13th floor. A bit slow occasionally, but quite interesting still. In a way I think it was better than the Matrix. And now back to the normal programming...

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