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Kuroikaze

Here Is Why I Don't Believe

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Hey kuro,

 

How about posting this in the a christian and a atheist forum

 

A great topic indeed

 

Skeptic

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You know, you could turn this into a great comeback line.....e.g.:

 

"Our ways are not his ways....."

 

"Yeah, well you could say that about Jeffrey Dahmer, but I'm not going to

go off and worship Jeffrey Dahmer, either...."

Funny you should mention Dahmer. Isn't it interesting that Jesus wanted people to eat his flesh

and drink his blood? Creepy huh? Jesus Dahmer or Dahmer Christ. :HaHa:

 

ouch, that is an analogy reffering to the holy spirit.

 

now back to the topic at hand.

 

first off, excellent writing skills you have there. but i missed the whole point of why you are against christian beliefs. was it because they were brutal. this happened around 1400 BC. that was custumary stuff for wars during that period. King Nebuchadnezzar was not very nice to the jews when he conquered judah. maybe you could write about that. i would love to read it. the Lord commanded moses who commanded joshua to take over the area. it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

but you missed the whole piont of joshua. if you believe in God, he gives you second chances. though the israelites failed to enter the promised land the first time and were left in the desert for 40 years, God gave the next generation another chance at the holy land.

 

you missunderstand God, though he loves you, he will judge you for your sins. wether in this life or the next. there are several stories in the old testament that show God as a loving God and as a judging God. But he is ultimately just in his judgement. the covenant is written. wether you obey it or not is your choice.

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... but you missed the whole piont of joshua. if you believe in God, he gives you second chances. ...

 

But, apparently, only if you are among the "chosen people" - or had "chariots of iron," which somehow were beyond the powers of all-powerful gawd. :Wendywhatever:

 

Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

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it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

I'm not sure "reason" is the right word here.

 

If the Bible were true, your GOD would be a monster. And that goes for the Holy Spirit, too. All the christian reasoning in the world can't justify his actions and produce anything that makes any kind of sense.

 

Thank God the bible isn't true. It'd be horrible testament to a horrid deity.

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The Lord commanded moses who commanded joshua to take over the area. it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

 

 

So you're justifying the mass murder of thousands of "pagans," just for the

simple fact that they did not believe in your crappy biblegawd? It's amazing

that people as barbaric as you still exist in the 21st century.

 

:rolleyes:

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first off, excellent writing skills you have there. but i missed the whole point of why you are against christian beliefs. was it because they were brutal. this happened around 1400 BC. that was custumary stuff for wars during that period. King Nebuchadnezzar was not very nice to the jews when he conquered judah. maybe you could write about that. i would love to read it. the Lord commanded moses who commanded joshua to take over the area. it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

but you missed the whole piont of joshua. if you believe in God, he gives you second chances. though the israelites failed to enter the promised land the first time and were left in the desert for 40 years, God gave the next generation another chance at the holy land.

 

you missunderstand God, though he loves you, he will judge you for your sins. wether in this life or the next. there are several stories in the old testament that show God as a loving God and as a judging God. But he is ultimately just in his judgement. the covenant is written. wether you obey it or not is your choice.

Explain to me:

 

If God let the pagans live, wouldn't they have had a chance to convert and become Jewish?

 

Why did God judge them in this life, instead of letting them live a full life, and then judge them at the end of time?

 

The only thing God does when he kill someone in this life, is to settle the judgment against them. They don't get anymore chances to convert or regret or ask for forgiveness. Where's the justice in that?

 

It's like if I went to a group of people, killed them, then told the dead bodies they have to believe me or they will die, but then it's too late because I already killed them! It's passing judgment before the chance of repenting!

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it was populated by pagans.
Just like this board. :woohoo: Right, fellow heiðinn?

 

I don't give a rat's ass about what the alleged Biblegod may or may not want from humanity. The brutal truth is that the many, many followers of said god have committed unforgivable atrocities against humanity. Un. For. Givable. And in the name of an irrational, genocidal psychopath of a god, too.

 

(unlocks recently gassed-up iron chariot and drives off, giving finger to Holy Spirit)

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but you missed the whole piont of joshua. if you believe in God, he gives you second chances. though the israelites failed to enter the promised land the first time and were left in the desert for 40 years, God gave the next generation another chance at the holy land.

 

you missunderstand God, though he loves you, he will judge you for your sins. wether in this life or the next. there are several stories in the old testament that show God as a loving God and as a judging God. But he is ultimately just in his judgement. the covenant is written. wether you obey it or not is your choice.

You seem to be missing the whole point of Joshua and the law. This is not about 2nd chances for non-Hebrews. Yahweh was a tribal god, and the 10 commandments "Thou shalt not kill" applied to Hebrews, not those outside the tribe - the others, the non-humans/sub-humans. This is why orders coming down from their God to commit genocide are not viewed as contradictory in their minds. Don't try to reconcile this in light of the image that man has of God today. That was a much later, more humane deity created in a more cosmopolitan/educated world. The Canaanites were non-Hebrews (according to them)* and their lives were irrelevant to them, and consequently to their God who they fashioned in their own image.

 

BTW, you cannot compare the customs of the day as being acceptable if the dictate to commit the Canaanite Holocaust came directly from an absolute, infinite source of morality such as God Himself. Either you must acknowledge the Canaanite Holocaust was ordered by men who created God in their own image, and hence why he fits the tribal god image so perfectly, or you must embrace your deity as driven like other psychopathic murderers who order genocide, like the little guy with the funny square mustache.

 

*Actually archeology shows that the Hebrews were most likely Canaanites themselves. So what you really have in the story is one group of Canaanites warring against rival tribes, and creating this whole mythology about their origins. Fascinating stuff :grin:

 

(That said, it makes these notions about being judged according to some shifting-values god sort of irrelevant, doesn't it?)

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it was populated by pagans.
Just like this board. :woohoo: Right, fellow heiðinn?

 

RIGHT! :58:

 

I don't give a rat's ass about what the alleged Biblegod may or may not want from humanity. The brutal truth is that the many, many followers of said god have committed unforgivable atrocities against humanity. Un. For. Givable. And in the name of an irrational, genocidal psychopath of a god, too.

 

And the tales of said psychopathic god are no better. The Old Testament is full of blood, murder, theft, and rape - all ordained by Yahooweh™. And it is all presented as something righteous, necessary, and holy to top it off! What hubris those old scribes had, eh? Balls that big are only seen chasing Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom.

 

Even if that god existed (which, as an all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good being, it is impossible for him to exist to begin with), I'd defy him and stand by my ancient Gods. The Gods my ancestors honored are good enough for me, and an evil spirit weaving stories about an imaginary Hell™ deserves no worship or honor from me. Neither does the condescending, self-righteous, emasculated Scum of Gawd™, Jeezus™. They can all go to that Hell™ they made up.

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it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

I'm not sure "reason" is the right word here.

 

If the Bible were true, your GOD would be a monster. And that goes for the Holy Spirit, too. All the christian reasoning in the world can't justify his actions and produce anything that makes any kind of sense.

 

Thank God the bible isn't true. It'd be horrible testament to a horrid deity.

 

this is why i think most people resort to being athiest unfortunately, you look at God as a monster, but nothing could be further from the truth. with evolution, there are no reprocusions for immoral behavior. these pagans that were slaughtered were guilty of worshiping idols, child sacrifice, raping of women. it was a horrindous society. God does not delight in the death of the wicked.

 

ezek 18:32 "for I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!"

 

but there are times the bible implies a point of no return, beyond which judgment is inevitable.

 

Jer. 11:11 "Therefore this is what the Lord says" 'I will bring on them a disaster they cannot escape. Although they cry out to me, I will not listen to them."

 

why are you blasting God for pronouncing judgement. He is the Father and creator. When you child does wrong, do you not correct them. If you murder somebody, do you not get sentenced to death. (unless you are in california)

 

and for another fact. why are you guys getting hung up in the Old Testament. there is a new covanent through Jesus.

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Freeday - this is EX-CHRISTIAN.NET.

 

I was a christian for 25 years. A praise and worship leader / musician / christian songwriter. I managed to escape through educating myself with regards to the truth. The truth you won't hear in Sunday School.

 

I can tell you right now, if you plan on staying here long - get off of the scripture quotes.

 

We already know the bible. Very very well.

 

We'd like to know what you think. If you're unable to THINK aside from verses in your book, you will get a very cool reception here.

 

For starters - I can tell you that talking about salvation, judgments, atonements, covenants and all the other "ments", doesn't mean a hell of a lot to people who know that the whole gospel story is nothing more than an interesting story.

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this is why i think most people resort to being athiest unfortunately, you look at God as a monster, but nothing could be further from the truth. with evolution, there are no reprocusions for immoral behavior. these pagans that were slaughtered were guilty of worshiping idols, child sacrifice, raping of women. it was a horrindous society. God does not delight in the death of the wicked.

 

Oh man....if you're interested in "learning" then don't make a fucking strawman out of everyones belief here. Ask questions.

 

1) Evolution is not an ethical system, it's a scientific description of how the natural world works.

2) Back up your "opinions" with a rational explanation including referencing of facts. And don't selectively ignore the fact that your precious Hebrews were guilty of rape, killing children and plundering.

 

Why are you blasting God for pronouncing judgement. He is the Father and creator. When you child does wrong, do you not correct them. If you murder somebody, do you not get sentenced to death. (unless you are in california)

 

Dude, they are criticizing his judgement as an irrational one. In which case, his "correction" is one of torture and death....not exactly what I'd do to my child.

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this is why i think most people resort to being athiest unfortunately, you look at God as a monster, but nothing could be further from the truth. with evolution, there are no reprocusions for immoral behavior. these pagans that were slaughtered were guilty of worshiping idols, child sacrifice, raping of women. it was a horrindous society. God does not delight in the death of the wicked.

 

ezek 18:32 "for I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!"

 

Your god is a liar, then. If he does not delight in death, then he, as an all-powerful being, can simply will it away.He can prevent it, with a mere thought. Why does he choose to play games, if we're so precious to him to begin with?

 

Your god doesn't love anyone but himself.

 

Jer. 11:11 "Therefore this is what the Lord says" 'I will bring on them a disaster they cannot escape. Although they cry out to me, I will not listen to them."

 

And stuff like that is my proof. If your god cared, then why does he destroy those who call out to him? Shit like this shows just how untrustworthy your god is. Thanks for helping us prove our point.

 

why are you blasting God for pronouncing judgement. He is the Father and creator. When you child does wrong, do you not correct them. If you murder somebody, do you not get sentenced to death. (unless you are in california)

 

I blast that son-of-a-bitch you call "Father" because he is immoral and unjust. You correct a child through education, not torture. And you stop punishing a child after awhile - you don't keep it up for all eternity. Think about it. An eternity of torment, just for not pleasing your god. How is that just? As you helped illustrate above, your god will even refuse many who call on him, making him twice the bastard. Why even bother believing in him if you can't be sure he'll bail you out?

 

and for another fact. why are you guys getting hung up in the Old Testament. there is a new covanent through Jesus.

 

Jeezus™ is a jerkoff, like his old man. He is a demented cult leader in the Babble™, and I personally believe he is an evil spirit. Well, many evil spirits, in truth, I believe use the name "Jeezus™" and fuck with people's heads, putting Hellfire™ and horrors in their thoughts or making people think he's listening to their prayers when there hasn't been one prayer answered by Jeezus™ ever in the history of the world.

 

Like Mythra says, better get off the Babble verses and justify that dick you worship - and fast.

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Your god is a liar, then. If he does not delight in death, then he, as an all-powerful being, can simply will it away.He can prevent it, with a mere thought. Why does he choose to play games, if we're so precious to him to begin with?

 

Your god doesn't love anyone but himself.

 

Death is not the end if you have a faith in God. the bible makes this clear.

 

Like Mythra says, better get off the Babble verses and justify that dick you worship - and fast.

 

God justifies himself throught the bibble. you should read it one day and stop plucking out verses and making up the meaning to them. I will try and explain the bible verses better in the future. they are being taken out of context horribly.

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I will try and explain the bible verses better in the future. they are being taken out of context horribly.

 

OMG is this dude in for a rough ride here.

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Death is not the end if you have a faith in God. the bible makes this clear.

 

So? The Babble™ isn't an authority. Must we endure yet another Xian who can't get it through his thick head that using the Babble™ to justify the Babble™ is a logical fallacy?

 

Prove the Babble™ is accurate first. Show me or blow me.

 

And who said I thought death was the end?

 

God justifies himself throught the bibble. you should read it one day and stop plucking out verses and making up the meaning to them. I will try and explain the bible verses better in the future. they are being taken out of context horribly.

 

Actually, I read the Babble™. Several times. That's part of why I am not a Xian anymore - I can't justify believing in a cruel, sick, contradictory god like that.

 

And I assure you, they are perfectly in context. Words mean things, and the plain meanings of the various texts in the Babble™ scream "contradiction" to anyone who reads it and accepts it as face value.

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I will try and explain the bible verses better in the future. they are being taken out of context horribly.

 

OMG is this dude in for a rough ride here.

:lmao::lmao: No doubt!

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it was populated by pagans. i can only reason that the Lord pronounced judgement on them and that was it.

 

 

spoken like a true bigot. any one who isn't part of your faith is not worth anything, its ok to kill them because they aren't truely human.

 

its true you missed my point. My attempt was to humanize the people god supposedly ordered killed. they weren't just evil pagans, they were real people with families and hopes and dreams for those families, and according to the book you worship as absolute truth, God took those dreams and smashed them.

 

Yes of course that time period was brutal, the Babylonain, Asyrian, Persian, Egyptian and so on and so forth, all of thier cultures were bigoted, they all thought that every other culture was below them and would have killed anyone else in an instant if it benefited thier own culture. There is one major difference between these cultures and the Jewish culture....I am not hounded almost constantly to worship the Babylonain, Asyrian, Persian, or Egyptian God's. I am however, asked to worship Yahwey, who was just as equaly bloodthirsty as all of those so called pagan Gods. I don't worship them and I won't worship Yahwey either.

 

I don't believe he exists for the same reason I doubt all those other gods, you ever hear the old saying that you know that you have created god in your own image when he hates all the same people you do? To me that suggests that the Israelites made up thier god to justify their own form of bigotry just the same as all the other people of the time.

 

 

God justifies himself throught the bibble. you should read it one day and stop plucking out verses and making up the meaning to them. I will try and explain the bible verses better in the future. they are being taken out of context horribly.

 

 

Uggg, ok first off this is circular logic, saying Godjustifies himself through the bible, How do I know that God wrote it? Oh yeah because the bible says he wrote it. Do me a favor and watch this link and you'll see how ridiculous this seems to me.

 

 

Also I have studied the bible better than most christians, and so have quite a few other people here, I'm tired of christians claiming context everytime a passage says something they don't want to hear.

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So? The Babble isn't an authority. Must we endure yet another Xian who can't get it through his thick head that using the Babble to justify the Babble is a logical fallacy?

 

Exactly. I think our newest biblebot thinks this is fourth grade sunday school.

 

We understand that the bible is just another book. Written from the minds and imaginations of men. Just like The Grapes of Wrath. Catcher in the Rye. The Old Man and the Sea. Tom Sawyer. The Hobbit. Of Mice and Men. Treasure Island.

 

Is it possible to take paragraphs from these books out of context? :scratch:

 

 

Freeday: would you accept a Muslim coming to you and quoting the Koran? Would this carry any weight or weigh on your conscience? Even if he claimed it was the word of Allah?

 

No?

 

Welcome to our world.

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by the way, I got the "point" of joshua loud and clear. The point of my writing was to show that the story doesn't seem so nice when taken from the perspective of the people who died.

 

God teaches the Jews a leson about forgiveness and second chances, great huh? until you realize he taught the lesson by having the Jews slaughter little children and their mothers. Which of course was my point. :grin:

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I think this guy's response is typical.

 

They were pagans. Evil. Deserved to die. Deserve to go to hell.

 

Shoulda worshipped Jesus.

 

Wait a minute. This was pre-Jesus. Pre-Hell. Everyone worshipped whatever gods their parents worshipped.

 

What the fuck. They're still evil.

 

Our God is a just God.

 

Amen.

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Heh - basically, Mythra.

 

:jerkit:

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Everyone worshipped whatever gods their parents worshipped.

 

As Ingersoll said in one of his addresses to christians: "if you were born in India, you'd be worshipping one god with three heads instead of three gods with one head"

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