Here Is Why I Don't Believe

[Mythra]

We provide the information, remind you that (even if you see Him as barbaric) He still loves you and wants a relationship with you, and we leave the door open.

 

What information do you provide, Kat?

 

You think you have the inside line to the creator of the universe?

 

Do you think you know something about this Jesus character that we were never able to figure out - after years and years of living the life you now live?

 

Sorry, we're not playing that game with you or freeday or amy. Sunday school is over for most of us. And we will not cringe in fear of your man-made god or your man-made hell - because we dared to commit the eternal sin of thinking for ourselves and searching for the truth.

[Mythra]

I feel like posting some scripture. Just like the bible verses and passages we see posted here all the time, these scriptures are not written or even inspired by GOD.

 

They're just the writings of a man.

 

The whole world has been filled with fear. Ignorance has been the refuge of the soul. For thousands of years the intellectual ocean was ravaged by the buccaneers of reason. Pious souls clung to the shore and looked at the lighthouse. The seas were filled with monsters and the islands with sirens. The people were driven in the middle of a narrow road while priests went before, beating the hedges on either side to frighten the robbers from their lairs. The poor followers seeing no robbers, thanked their brave leaders with all their hearts.

 

Huddled in folds they listened with wide eyes while the shepherds told of ravening wolves. With great gladness they exchanged their fleeces for security. Shorn and shivering, they had the happiness of seeing their protectors comfortable and warm.

 

Through all the years, those who plowed divided with those who prayed. Wicked industry supported pious idleness, the hut gave to the cathedral, and frightened poverty gave even its rags to buy a robe for hypocrisy.

 

Fear is the dungeon of the mind, and superstition is a dagger with which hypocrisy assassinates the soul. Courage is liberty. I am in favor of absolute freedom of thought. In the realm of mind every one is monarch; every one is robed, sceptered, and crowned, and every one wears the Purple of authority. I belong to the republic of intellectual liberty, and only those are good citizens of that republic who depend upon reason and upon persuasion, and only those are traitors who resort to brute force.

Robert Ingersoll

[freeday]

what about those who didn't hear the gospel, are they bound to hell? i don't think they are.

 

2 Pet 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

(sorry for the KJV, i am at work and this is all i have available.)

 

I think the ignorant are judged differently than the people who have heard the gospel.

Now we're getting somewhere. That's what I'm getting at.

 

People that have not heard the Gospel have a better chance of going to Heaven, then people that have heard it. Since a person that live righteously, but haven't heard the Gospel have a good chance of going there, while a person that live righteously and hear it, have a large chance of rejecting it and hence seal their fate of going to Hell.

 

So all considered, it's better NOT to preach the Gospel, but let people just live their lives.

 

ahh, yes, ignorance is bliss. you make this assumption with the idea that your life is better off without God. I believe my life is better with God. and if i am to believe in God, i must follow his commandment of testifing. 1john5 (i don't have a bible with me, but it is somewhere around there). for me to get to heaven. i must believe, live by his standard and provide testimony. so God wants me to tell everyone of his Love.

 

although i think he might be easier on the ignorant, they still will be judged by how they lived.

 

 

Varokhar wrote :

"You god knows nothing and I dare him to prove he exists and/or has any power over me. Right now."

 

if he came down and did some miracle by chance, some would think it a miracle. others would not and dissmiss it. then 500 years from now it would be forgotten about, then debated, picked apart to where nobody would believe it to be true. and the people who believed would be called literalist. and people would tell them to piss off.

 

this is a predominent theme in OT, God would perform miracles, revivals would happen. over time people would forget and revert to thier old ways. to ME it is obvious that we needed a Savoir.

[Mythra]

although i think he might be easier on the ignorant, they still will be judged by how they lived.

 

So much easier to throw out tired dogma than to try and come up with a substantive reason why we should go back to believing.

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I kinda feel sorry for thumpers like freeday and amy and kat.

 

It's only after you step back from this religion and see the whole picture that you realize how completely ridiculous it all is.

 

We see the forest. They see trees.

[Lycorth]

if he came down and did some miracle by chance, some would think it a miracle. others would not and dissmiss it. then 500 years from now it would be forgotten about, then debated, picked apart to where nobody would believe it to be true. and the people who believed would be called literalist. and people would tell them to piss off.

 

this is a predominent theme in OT, God would perform miracles, revivals would happen. over time people would forget and revert to thier old ways. to ME it is obvious that we needed a Savoir.

 

I highly doubt it. The OT may say that, but it doesn't make it true - especially if the Xian god made regular appearances, which are necessary for human beings, who are social creatures. A little socializing by the Xian god shouldn't be too hard if he wants our worship, right?

 

To me, it is obvious that there was no "saviour" and that we never needed any in the first place.

[freeday]

although i think he might be easier on the ignorant, they still will be judged by how they lived.

 

So much easier to throw out tired dogma than to try and come up with a substantive reason why we should go back to believing.

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I kinda feel sorry for thumpers like freeday and amy and kat.

 

It's only after you step back from this religion and see the whole picture that you realize how completely ridiculous it all is.

 

We see the forest. They see trees.

 

your not going to find every if, and, but in the bible. we can only theorize about such. I don't have a clear cut answer on this. sorry for the tired old dogma. it is my percieved truth.

[freeday]

if he came down and did some miracle by chance, some would think it a miracle. others would not and dissmiss it. then 500 years from now it would be forgotten about, then debated, picked apart to where nobody would believe it to be true. and the people who believed would be called literalist. and people would tell them to piss off.

 

this is a predominent theme in OT, God would perform miracles, revivals would happen. over time people would forget and revert to thier old ways. to ME it is obvious that we needed a Savoir.

 

I highly doubt it. The OT may say that, but it doesn't make it true - especially if the Xian god made regular appearances, which are necessary for human beings, who are social creatures. A little socializing by the Xian god shouldn't be too hard if he wants our worship, right?

 

To me, it is obvious that there was no "saviour" and that we never needed any in the first place.

 

example: when the A-bomb was dropped. it would be considered one of america's greatest accomplishment as far as technology goes (please don't take this the wrong way). you would think something that would be remembered forever. i couldn't tell you when it was dropped, i always forget which city was hit first.

 

another. when we landed on the moon. it was one of america's greatest accomplishments. i can't remember the date. the ships name. only one astronaunt. there are several websites with speculations it never happened.

 

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

[Mythra]

if he came down and did some miracle by chance, some would think it a miracle. others would not and dissmiss it. then 500 years from now it would be forgotten about, then debated, picked apart to where nobody would believe it to be true. and the people who believed would be called literalist. and people would tell them to piss off.

 

Isn't that just the way? People are always doing that. When Pythagoras had the men cast the net into the sea and brought forth a miraculous catch of fish. There were doubters.

 

The same for Apolonius of Tyana and his many miracles. Joseph Smith, with his miraculous healings and personal visitations by John the Baptist, God the Father, and Jesus. The miraculous healings of Asclepius. The time when Romulus was taken up into a cloud.... When .. well .... you get it.

 

What the fuck. There will always be scoffers.

[Astreja]

example: when the A-bomb was dropped. it would be considered one of america's greatest accomplishment as far as technology goes (please don't take this the wrong way). you would think something that would be remembered forever. i couldn't tell you when it was dropped, i always forget which city was hit first.

Hiroshima, August 6, 1945. Around eight in the morning. Nagasaki, August 9. Total immediate fatalities: Approximately 400,000 people.

another. when we landed on the moon. it was one of america's greatest accomplishments. i can't remember the date. the ships name. only one astronaunt. there are several websites with speculations it never happened.

July 20, 1969. Apollo 11. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon, and (I think) Michael Sheppard (sp?) up above. I was eleven going on twelve, and watched it live on an old black-and-white television in my parents' home.

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

My point being, forgetting is not inevitable. All of the above was strictly from memory, no wiki-peeking involved. We remember that which we care about.

[Lycorth]

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

 

Zackly my point. Since humans will forget stuff usually, a god who cares so much about our "precious" souls really ought to know enough to drop by every so often to remind us of the biggies, right?

 

But he can't do that if he doesn't exist or just isn't capable of that sort of thing

[Kuroikaze]

your not going to find every if, and, but in the bible. we can only theorize about such. I don't have a clear cut answer on this. sorry for the tired old dogma. it is my percieved truth.

 

Exactly, Truth is nothing but perception, Good and evil are nothing but perception. No matter how you view something there will be someone somewhere who views it differently.

 

And there is no real standard by which we can decide who is right.

 

Christians claim the bible is that standard, but by your own admision you cannot give reasonable explanations for the attrocities in it so its not much of a standard.

 

You know, our founding father Thomas Paine said it best when he said that a revelation from God ceases to be a revelation when it shared with another person...at that point it become hersay and therefore we are not bound to believe it.

 

The bible is just Hersay, it has supporting evidence, and most of the books in it weren't even written by the people tradition says they were written by.

 

Woudn't it be easier to simply say that there is a God who loves us, and simply drop all this non-sense about the Yahwey cult? Can't you guys just let God be God without attaching him to a tribal desert religion, and thinking you have him all figured out?

[duderonomy]

Good fucking grief, already.

 

I NO LONGER BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

 

I, A LIVING HUMAN SOUL, THAT SURVIVED THE CAANANITES AND THE BOMBS THAT HIT JAPAN, AND THE CANCERS WHICH RAVAGE HUMANITY AND THE POLITICS OF DANCING, AND AS THE SILLY OLD MAN WHO TYPES AND YOU READ, THAT BREATHES AND YOU READ, THAT DOES NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE AND YOU READ, THE ONE PERSON WHO CAN SEE THROUGH THE INCREDIBLE FAKERY AND BANKABLE "PASSION OF THE CHRIST" BULLSHIT MOVIE, HAVE TO ASK YOU CHRISTIANS, ARE YOU DEAF ON PURPOSE?

 

Of course you are. Now that I've shouted myself hoarse, what else do you have that hasn't already been discussed here? This thread, through three 'Christians', is up to it's collective necks in Red Herrings.

 

I can't believe the amount of grace and patience some of you Ex-tians exibit. I admit, I could no longer do the same in the face of those who are so obviously willingly deaf, and/or blind to the truth that at the least, the Bible is NOT a book of; let alone THE Book of, 'Truth'. Unless God is an unthinkable horror and menace to any society.

 

And referencing a Mel Gibson movie. Heavy heavy theology, that!

The Jesus I USED to worship, according to the Bible, didn't even resemble a human being by the time He was nailed to His cross. He had been beaten so badly and completely that he didn't even have a human face, as we would know it. That's the reality, according to the Bible, Isaiah 58 or so, if I'm right (or close). Why did old Mad Max tone that down, and why do certain of you buy it by the numbers?

 

Jesus, in the most modern, hip, or old fashioned of songs, sermons, and films or art, never did match the Jesus that died for me on a cross.

 

 

And your weak arguments are a testament to that fact. You don't care, you don't hear from the Holy Spirit, you don't want to rescue me, you don't want to get serious in your 'faith' because that may require actual human contact (not physical, you silly) on some level.

 

Better to post and run. Thank God for the Internet, Lord, where I may reach Millions for Thy Name! No need to get involved! I'll establish contact, then the Love of Jesus and The Holy Spirit will do the rest! Lord! Give me the words to say, PLEASE! I so long to serve you! Thank You Jesus...Thank You Jesus...

[Anakin]

Do we KNOW that the soldiers laughed as they heartlessly slaughtered men, women and children? Maybe those children were spared a worse fate and God was being merciful? What if the soldiers were as merciful as they could be and cried for them? But knew that God had a reason for His orders and they would not go against Him as if "they knew better than God". These are things we do not know... cannot know.

Who gives a shit if they were laughing, crying, farting, pissing or anything else? Why would that make the slaughter any better? Brutal murder is brutal murder. It wouldn't matter if a soldier

cried as he stuck his bayonet into a 2 year old girl. "Maybe those children were spared a worse

fate and God was being merciful?" WTF?! Are you the type who would dash out a babies brains

on rocks so they can go straight to heaven? "they knew better than God". Of couse they would

have known better. It doesn't take much intelligence to know that a baby is no threat to an

all powerful god. If god needed whole nations eliminated why couldn't he do it himself?

Is he all powerful or not? Man, you people are some sick mother fuckers! Early on in this thread

I had said that the only response I had gotten when asked about genocide was "his ways are not

our ways" or "our ways are not his ways". To me it seems like you guys are saying that but in

a round about way. It's like your trying to stradle the fence. Trying not to come right out and say

you support it.

 

When I say "you guys" I mean Kat, Freeday and Amy.

[Asimov]

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

 

How can you even qualify a statement like 'all things are forgotten'?

[duderonomy]

Good fucking grief, already.

 

I NO LONGER BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

 

I, A LIVING HUMAN SOUL, THAT SURVIVED THE CAANANITES AND THE BOMBS THAT HIT JAPAN, AND THE CANCERS WHICH RAVAGE HUMANITY AND THE POLITICS OF DANCING, AND AS THE SILLY OLD MAN WHO TYPES AND YOU READ, THAT BREATHES AND YOU READ, THAT DOES NOT BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE AND YOU READ, THE ONE PERSON WHO CAN SEE THROUGH THE INCREDIBLE FAKERY AND BANKABLE "PASSION OF THE CHRIST" BULLSHIT MOVIE, HAVE TO ASK YOU CHRISTIANS, ARE YOU DEAF ON PURPOSE?

 

Of course you are. Now that I've shouted myself hoarse, what else do you have that hasn't already been discussed here? This thread, through three 'Christians', is up to it's collective necks in Red Herrings.

 

I can't believe the amount of grace and patience some of you Ex-tians exibit. I admit, I could no longer do the same in the face of those who are so obviously willingly deaf, and/or blind to the truth that at the least, the Bible is NOT a book of; let alone THE Book of, 'Truth'. Unless God is an unthinkable horror and menace to any society.

 

And referencing a Mel Gibson movie. Heavy heavy theology, that!

The Jesus I USED to worship, according to the Bible, didn't even resemble a human being by the time He was nailed to His cross. He had been beaten so badly and completely that he didn't even have a human face, as we would know it. That's the reality, according to the Bible, Isaiah 58 or so, if I'm right (or close). Why did old Mad Max tone that down, and why do certain of you buy it by the numbers?

 

Jesus, in the most modern, hip, or old fashioned of songs, sermons, and films or art, never did match the Jesus that died for me on a cross.

 

 

And your weak arguments are a testament to that fact. You don't care, you don't hear from the Holy Spirit, you don't want to rescue me, you don't want to get serious in your 'faith' because that may require actual human contact (not physical, you silly) on some level.

 

Better to post and run. Thank God for the Internet, Lord, where I may reach Millions for Thy Name! No need to get involved! I'll establish contact, then the Love of Jesus and The Holy Spirit will do the rest! Lord! Give me the words to say, PLEASE! I so long to serve you! Thank You Jesus...Thank You Jesus...

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

 

How can you even qualify a statement like 'all things are forgotten'?

 

I know. It's ridiculous. It should be obvious to any observer that all things are Au Gratin.

[Vigile]

McArther left him in power.

 

Well, sort of. They created a figure head position for him under the Constitution the US wrote for Japan. He's now like the Queen of England.

 

I wonder if America became a Christian theocracy, if the history books would start looking like the OT, and the Christian faithful of tomorrow would believe that the Native American's were somehow horrible sinners in God's eyes deserving of what God's people the Christians did to them. Yep, I'm leaning to that being the case, point in hand, the Genocide of the Canaanites excuse.

 

Wonder no more. This was the exact justification used to exterminate the Indian populations. Manifest Destiny was also a large boot print left in history by the theocrats.

 

My opinion is we should all drop the A-bomb analogy. We all know the point is that God is supposed to be omnipotent, etc. etc. and nevertheless he stops evil by slaughtering innocents; he deters it by purportedly tormenting his own creatures forever, when he determines the actions for which he torments them.

 

Mr. Grinch, why do you never stop making so damn much sense? When the fascist takeover comes, I'm afraid you'll be one of the first they realize they have to round up. No naked emperor gets by your scrutiny! Rock on, bro

 

Agreed on both counts.

 

 

what about those who didn't hear the gospel, are they bound to hell? i don't think they are.

 

2 Pet 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

(sorry for the KJV, i am at work and this is all i have available.)

 

I think the ignorant are judged differently than the people who have heard the gospel.

 

This has got to be one of the stupidest beliefs in the entire xtian paradigm. Natives in Papau New Guniea get a second chance but those of us who fought and struggled with our faith for years only to lose it eventually to reason get to fry in the lowest depths. If god couldn't save me despite my years of anguished pleas for help in maintaining my faith then no one is safe.

 

Face it, just the hell doctrine alone is enough to justly paint the xtian god as evil.

 

You have not failed because it is not you sending the message, it is God.

 

I doubt very much I will read the rest of your post but thanks for the laugh.

 

Yes, the word of the lord will not return void on us frightful sinners. God's judgment will pierce us right through and lay open our souls to be eaten by the elements.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Amy, meet freeday. Freeday, meet amy. The two of you owe it to your creator to unite your faith and pump out a brood of nearly sinless, god-pleasing children. Consolidate your tithes, become the perfect union of faithful man and woman in which god delights, and lead the charge that culminates in the return of your half-naked, unctuous savior. The world needs you two desperately. With a single loveless, hospital-scented union of your loins, you may give birth to the next Billy Graham or Binny Hinn. You owe it to yourselves , your creator, and the world.

 

Let's get it on!

[pug]

and your fate shall be converting ex-c to c

 

how does that sound

 

we shall pray for that

[freeday]

Amy, meet freeday. Freeday, meet amy. The two of you owe it to your creator to unite your faith and pump out a brood of nearly sinless, god-pleasing children. Consolidate your tithes, become the perfect union of faithful man and woman in which god delights, and lead the charge that culminates in the return of your half-naked, unctuous savior. The world needs you two desperately. With a single loveless, hospital-scented union of your loins, you may give birth to the next Billy Graham or Binny Hinn. You owe it to yourselves , your creator, and the world.

 

Let's get it on!

 

although i do like amy and her beliefs. I am already married. you would like her too. funny enough, you had an indepth conversation with her on one of the posts. she primarily wrote most of the probability posts.

 

example: when the A-bomb was dropped. it would be considered one of america's greatest accomplishment as far as technology goes (please don't take this the wrong way). you would think something that would be remembered forever. i couldn't tell you when it was dropped, i always forget which city was hit first.

Hiroshima, August 6, 1945. Around eight in the morning. Nagasaki, August 9. Total immediate fatalities: Approximately 400,000 people.

another. when we landed on the moon. it was one of america's greatest accomplishments. i can't remember the date. the ships name. only one astronaunt. there are several websites with speculations it never happened.

July 20, 1969. Apollo 11. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon, and (I think) Michael Sheppard (sp?) up above. I was eleven going on twelve, and watched it live on an old black-and-white television in my parents' home.

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

My point being, forgetting is not inevitable. All of the above was strictly from memory, no wiki-peeking involved. We remember that which we care about.

 

you remimber it more vividly because you are closer to that generation. i knew some of it but not all. the generation under us, will know even less.

 

good memory though.

[Golden Meadows]

if he came down and did some miracle by chance, some would think it a miracle. others would not and dissmiss it. then 500 years from now it would be forgotten about, then debated, picked apart to where nobody would believe it to be true. and the people who believed would be called literalist. and people would tell them to piss off.

 

this is a predominent theme in OT, God would perform miracles, revivals would happen. over time people would forget and revert to thier old ways. to ME it is obvious that we needed a Savoir.

 

I highly doubt it. The OT may say that, but it doesn't make it true - especially if the Xian god made regular appearances, which are necessary for human beings, who are social creatures. A little socializing by the Xian god shouldn't be too hard if he wants our worship, right?

 

To me, it is obvious that there was no "saviour" and that we never needed any in the first place.

 

example: when the A-bomb was dropped. it would be considered one of america's greatest accomplishment as far as technology goes (please don't take this the wrong way). you would think something that would be remembered forever. i couldn't tell you when it was dropped, i always forget which city was hit first.

Yeh I know what you mean. Why should the extermination of thousands of people be a memorable event, sure its an easy thing to forget, after all it was just Japs wasn't it?

 

another. when we landed on the moon. it was one of america's greatest accomplishments. i can't remember the date. the ships name. only one astronaunt. there are several websites with speculations it never happened.

At least there was no extermination of whole cities involved. I think the bombing of Hirsoshima followed by Nagasaki were days of infamy in mankinds history. They should not be forgotten. A xtian has less problems facing up to such atrocities because his God actually sanctions them in the bible. The reality was greedy men used God to sanction the theft and pillaging they done/

 

my point being, with time. all things are forgoten. the greatness of it is forgoten. and then it just becomes a story.

So lets just forget what happened? What's that saying about those who forget history are condemned to repeat it?

 

[Kat22]

Again, I reiterate:

 

"Hind site is 20/20 and God has perfect hind site. He sees everything that we don't and knows what we do not know. Those who choose not to believe that will fight a Christian till the bitter end when they are told that God really does love them. But the proof is there and that won't change. "

 

Fight all you want, God's message is God's message. People have been fighting since the beginning about what to accept as God's word, what message to send. This is no different. Talk about the cruelty of God, go ahead. Even if you really believe that, He is still God. But that's ok. You deny Him in life and He will not force you to live with Him for all eternity. He will give you what you want and you will be separate (no, not literal burning; but like the metaphor even matters cause you don't believe in the bible anyway).

 

Fine, pick apart the bible and take out any TRULY contradictory statements (yes I too believe that the bible has them) and even the history of the Hebrews actions. You are still left with the message of salvation and it has been the same since the death of Christ. God came down, limited part of Himself so that He could take the punishment for our mistakes and all we need to do is accept His loving payment and give a sincere "Thank you".

 

“Gee, that's really hard to accept. I think I'd rather focus on things that I can't possibly know the whole story about because I wasn't there. I think I will pick out all the bad things that I (in my infinite wisdom) decide do not meet my perfect standards and call the word of God fake because of it. After all, I am REALLY the one who created the world and everything in it. It is ME who decided what is righteous and unrighteous. I SEEE ALLLLL! EVERYONE COME TO ME BECAUSE I KNOW MORE THAN GOD!!”

 

Give me a break. Your arguments are no different than anyone else. You want to fight against God because you do not agree with the choices He made. Well, teenagers with raging hormones and a know-it-all attitude don't agree with their parents either. But their parents are still their parents. If you choose to put your limited understanding above God's infinite wisdom just because you think He "looks cruel and unmerciful" fine.

 

I pray someday you will see past your limited view but, if not, I am still thriving on the love and mercy God shows me everyday. My life and my salvation are unchanged and I do not need to understand the Creators every decision. I TRUST that He is just and that is the difference between us. You do not WANT to trust God and so you reject Him based on your limited understanding of His choices.

 

Even with all I have been through in my life, I still see how God has loved me and shown me the way to improve myself and my family and my life time and time again. Answering prayers (down to the smallest detail) just to show me He is there for me and loves me. THAT shows me His love and THAT is what makes me willing to TRUST e other things I do not understand. I research the validity of His message of salvation and leave the rest in His hands. You keep on doing your thing. If it helps you survive, that's great. Me? I prefer to thrive!

[Vigile]

Who is god? Your proof of this being is your admittedly contradictory bible. Give us a good reason to believe what you say is true. You xtians are very quick to assume a priori knowledge.

[Anakin]

Again, I reiterate:

 

(Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah............................)

 

 

That sure was a long winded way of saying you think genocide is OK.

[Kuroikaze]

Again, I reiterate:

 

"Hind site is 20/20 and God has perfect hind site. He sees everything that we don't and knows what we do not know. Those who choose not to believe that will fight a Christian till the bitter end when they are told that God really does love them. But the proof is there and that won't change. "

 

reitertating doesn't make it any more true the 2nd time. What proof? I don't see any proof.

 

Fight all you want, God's message is God's message. People have been fighting since the beginning about what to accept as God's word, what message to send. This is no different. Talk about the cruelty of God, go ahead. Even if you really believe that, He is still God. But that's ok. You deny Him in life and He will not force you to live with Him for all eternity. He will give you what you want and you will be separate (no, not literal burning; but like the metaphor even matters cause you don't believe in the bible anyway).

 

You are mistaking my anger at your justification of genocide as anger at God, if there is a God he can do what he wants and I harbor no anger at him. Because I fully believe that he never did any of the insane things the bible attributes him with. The bible is a blasphamous book.

 

 

Fine, pick apart the bible and take out any TRULY contradictory statements (yes I too believe that the bible has them) and even the history of the Hebrews actions. You are still left with the message of salvation and it has been the same since the death of Christ. God came down, limited part of Himself so that He could take the punishment for our mistakes and all we need to do is accept His loving payment and give a sincere "Thank you".

 

Payment for what? How does a blood sarifice even make sense? This whole thing is just silly.

 

“Gee, that's really hard to accept. I think I'd rather focus on things that I can't possibly know the whole story about because I wasn't there. I think I will pick out all the bad things that I (in my infinite wisdom) decide do not meet my perfect standards and call the word of God fake because of it. After all, I am REALLY the one who created the world and everything in it. It is ME who decided what is righteous and unrighteous. I SEEE ALLLLL! EVERYONE COME TO ME BECAUSE I KNOW MORE THAN GOD!!”

 

Now, your just being a jerk. I don't claim to know more than God if he exists....just more than you.

 

Give me a break. Your arguments are no different than anyone else. You want to fight against God because you do not agree with the choices He made. Well, teenagers with raging hormones and a know-it-all attitude don't agree with their parents either. But their parents are still their parents. If you choose to put your limited understanding above God's infinite wisdom just because you think He "looks cruel and unmerciful" fine.

 

I pray someday you will see past your limited view but, if not, I am still thriving on the love and mercy God shows me everyday. My life and my salvation are unchanged and I do not need to understand the Creators every decision. I TRUST that He is just and that is the difference between us. You do not WANT to trust God and so you reject Him based on your limited understanding of His choices.

 

No, I don't believe he even MADE those choices...you haven't been listening very well. and agian I have not desire to tell you what to believe. I just want you to respect MY beliefs enough to leave me alone. The purpose of my story was to show why I have strong, and good reasons for my unbelief and you won't be changing my mind.

 

And again, I get really tired of this whole "you know god exists but deny it because its not comfortable" thing.....this is absolute shit. What kind of little child would I be to pretend he doesn't exist when I know he does. For what purpose? to Punish him? Give me a break...I don't think there is a God because I don't think there is a God. Stop insulting me and listen for one damn second.

 

Even with all I have been through in my life, I still see how God has loved me and shown me the way to improve myself and my family and my life time and time again. Answering prayers (down to the smallest detail) just to show me He is there for me and loves me. THAT shows me His love and THAT is what makes me willing to TRUST e other things I do not understand. I research the validity of His message of salvation and leave the rest in His hands. You keep on doing your thing. If it helps you survive, that's great. Me? I prefer to thrive!

 

 

I "thrive" just fine thank you. Agian you make assumptions about me and who I am without knowing a single fucking thing about me. Normaly I try not to cuss much at the xians who show up here, but this is just nuts. You sound like a broken record and you haven't listend to a thing I've said.

 

If you think he anserwed your prayers great, but he never answered mine...I guess he was busy the day I asked him to keep my faith from failing huh? Personally I think people who trust things they don't understand and that make no sense are on very dangerous ground.

 

What would you do if God told you to kill me? If God said I was a threat to him and I was leading too many people away with my heathen teachings. Would you kill me?