Why Should I Worship Jeezus(tm) And Not Odin?

[Lycorth]

^..^

[KT45]

@ Taylork

 

Good illustration, though.

Meh can't blame I guy for trying. Well maybe you can . I seriously didn't know what odin looked like so I just googled it and picked one. Glad you enjoyed it.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Ciao, Asuryan,

 

I don't know if any of us will get a response that we consider a true answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess not. But I'll try asking her one anyway. Maybe, she DOES understand what kind of answer we would like, but she will never answer like that because in her mind that would be doubting, and doubting god is a sin. I can't understand ...I thought that in America, frontal lobotomies had gone illegal about 30 years ago, was I wrong?

 

 

 

Allora come ti va la vita? Cosa hai fatto in questi ultimi tempi, a parte litigare con amy?

 

Hi, Asuryan. At first I thought Amy Marie was earnest, but I came to think she's an emotional hypocrite. As far as I can see, she never answered your questions about what "God" was accomplishing by the Flood and its aftermath, etc. etc. Typical of fundies; they think they have a point to make and in the end, they can only reference Scripture in a circle or else appeal to their personal experience, as though it's more valid than other people's personal experience.

 

I'm happier than in at least five years. My relationship of 23 years collapsed last year - wasn't caused or desired by me. I went through a lot of grief and despair. There wasn't much I could do except just keep going and hope for new life eventually. I've met a wonderful new boyfriend, and we're even better suited to each other than my old lover and I were - except for those little connections that build up into a fabric over many years. But we're weaving our new fabric, so to speak.

 

I think I'm one of the few people on here who think the author of Revelation presents the dragon as the serpent of Genesis 3. Oh well. Not that it matters except as a question of exegesis of an ancient text.

 

I'm already in italy withdrawal, haven't been in two years. At least the ship crooner is out. I wonder if he'll climb back into power?

 

I'm looking forward to going to Greece this summer, the north - Thessaloniki, Meteora, Pelion Oros, etc.

Allora, cosi va la mia vita. OK, I'll let the topic of the thread reassert itself. Ciao, ficino

[Antlerman]

You never read the end of the Book? Jesus wins big time over Odin! All His enemies are crushed beneath His feet. So you don't like the sad, sorrowful, "wimpy" Jesus? Not a problem.

 

"He has loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword!"

 

Hope your not surprised by the ending.

Your artwork? I got the impression that the saved ones I was seeing were Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe it was the style of clothing or something

 

Nice to see you back. (I was actually waiting for you to give this response about the 2nd coming in power and glory). I hope you plan to stick around so we can pick up the converstaion you and I were having that never finished.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Thurisaz]

You never read the end of the Book? Jesus wins big time over Odin! All His enemies are crushed beneath His feet. So you don't like the sad, sorrowful, "wimpy" Jesus? Not a problem.

 

*sigh*

 

It's not like we don't know the "ending", we just see no reason to believe the book tells the truth. And you... ummm... haven't exactly provided reasons to believe so far.

 

Odin still wins, nyah nyah

 

And Loki made a baaaad choice this time, picking poor Amy to raise trouble...

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Thurisaz]

You wanted reasons why Jesus is better than Odin.

 

Well, this is the best reason of all. Jesus WINS in the end!

 

Wrong my dear. Or rather, some important words are missing up there.

 

The dubious book says that Jesus WINS in the end!

 

You can either provide valid evidence supporting its trustworthiness, or we can "agree to disagree", but insisting on supporting all your points with the bible without giving us any reason to trust it is futile. Just the facts maam.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[KT45]

You wanted reasons why Jesus is better than Odin.

 

Well, this is the best reason of all. Jesus WINS in the end!

 

Wrong my dear. Or rather, some important words are missing up there.

 

The dubious book says that Jesus WINS in the end!

 

You can either provide valid evidence supporting its trustworthiness, or we can "agree to disagree", but insisting on supporting all your points with the bible without giving us any reason to trust it is futile. Just the facts maam.

Why can't this be just about god vs. god. The conversation is not out to prove whose is real. Amy could use the same defense saying odin isn't real and his books about him are all lies. I'm not protecting Amy in anyway but I'd rather see these gods debated based on their personality traits, what they stand for, their divinity and their lives and not their historic authencity. Merely saying Jesus isn't real or odin isn't real gets nowhere and just leads the discussion off topic as we have already seen.

 

-EDIT-

One quick note. I was mostly replying to you saying critizing her for using the bible to back up Jesus and then use facts. The character of Jesus is based on the bible so she has to go with the stories in the bible about Jesus, whether fact or fiction. Hence they should and can be used to have a valid discussion.

[julian]

"WOOOOOW Holy jump up and sit down! Am I reading this correctly?!!!! Thank YOU!

 

Everyone:

 

If one should worship Jesus or Odin should be based on fact. If you are worshipping Odin and Jesus ends up being the fact where does that leave you? Don't you ever have "What if?" questions?

If I'm wrong I have nothing to lose on the other hand..."

 

Allow me to add a few things. First, I doubt followers of Odin base their worship of him off of a story of a supposed real life that never happened. In other words, those who worship Jesus do rely upon the story of his life which is clearly untrue, and therefore, you can dispose of the "If" in your last sentence. Secondly, the very mindsets which are on display show a lot. While Christianity mistakenly believes it is only true and all others will go to hell (which is a flawed concept, as well as unjust, unreasonable, intolerant and patently illogical), non-Abrahamic viewpoints hold no such ill-concieved misperceptions. They, unlike the Judeo-Christian worldview, see the reality that people who worship other deities are not damned or anything of the sort.

 

Just my opinion.

[KT45]

One quick note. I was mostly replying to you saying critizing her for using the bible to back up Jesus and then use facts. The character of Jesus is based on the bible so she has to go with the stories in the bible about Jesus, whether fact or fiction. Hence they should and can be used to have a valid discussion.

 

WOOOOOW Holy jump up and sit down! Am I reading this correctly?!!!! Thank YOU!

 

Everyone:

 

If one should worship Jesus or Odin should be based on fact. If you are worshipping Odin and Jesus ends up beings the fact where does that leave you? Don't you ever have "What if?" questions?

If I'm wrong I have nothing to lose on the other hand...

Amy, I really like the idea of this topic. It's a good chance for me to see the difference between two entirely different beings who are worshipped by people. I really want to see their stories, characteristics, beliefs etc used to see who is better. I also want to learn about Odin since I couldn't when I was a christian.

What you are doing is using pascal's wager which states --> "If I'm wrong I'm okay if you are wrong then....."

 

First of all, this will only cause debates on hell and pascal's wager itself detracting from the discussion. Secondly to answer you, If I'm wrong then about there being a God then I go to the christians hell, or I go to Allah's hell, or the mormon's hell, or I go to hades or even the buddhist hell (I hope you see where I'm going). To me no matter what I choose there will always be a "what if" fear mindset going on if I don't choose the right god. There are just so many different gods that have punishments if you don't believe in them. To me it's not really worth worrying about. Too many people seem so confused about afterlife, gods, goddess' that I figure no one will get it right. I just choose to live out my life and let the chips fall where they may. I'll just enjoy life while doing my best to avoid causing harm.

 

Now back to the subject. I know I just went a little off course but please stay on subject. Just Jesus vs Odin okay. Thanks

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Jesus faced one of the "cruelest tortures of his time", if you buy the story, knowing full well that directly afterward he'd be back in heaven sippin Jesus-juice by the pool. Not only that, his death on the croos took about 6 hours. He got off light. Most crucifixions take days as the victim slowly suffocates to death.

 

If I were Jesus, I wouldn't have even needed the Gethsemane prayer. I'd have known full well that it was just an afternoon of pain, something many other humans have experienced in much greater quantities for much longer times, my bad day would save the lives of a whole lot of people, and afterward, I go to heaven, rule the place, appear on nachos, all kinds of great stuff.

 

 

Jesus hardly did a thing.

[Vigile]

You never read the end of the Book? Jesus wins big time over Odin! All His enemies are crushed beneath His feet. So you don't like the sad, sorrowful, "wimpy" Jesus? Not a problem.

 

Is this really an adult conversation? Why is it that when I read this I think of Eric Cartman from South Park arguing "nuh uh, my guy kicks your guy's ass. He's protected by the power force 32 laser detractor"?

[Astreja]

Ultimately it doesn't matter which of the gods wins.

 

It matters which mortals win. Not against other mortals; but against the ups and downs of life, and against themselves.

 

And Odin's many, many kids are doing great.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

You just said nothing, amy. How was christ's death worse than the death of a child who dies a protracted cancer death? How was his death worse than the other people who were crucified that day? None of them were god.

 

If you could save the sinners of the world with your horrible death, even if you werent gonna be king of the universe, all you have waiting for you is ordinary old ecstatic heaven, would you do it? Would you, after you decided to do it, whine about it to god? Or would you bite the friggin bullet and endure an afternoon of pain to save the world, and probably never bring it up again, because you aren't the dood at the party who keeps mentioning his huge red camero.

 

Jesus suffered infinitely less than any patient who has ever passed through the doors of St. Jude. And jesus "suffered" as an all knowing god-man. Give me the chance to do that for a day and I'll do it even if it doesn't even saave my own smelly ass.

 

What did Jesus really do, amy?

[Asuryan]

Hi, Asuryan. At first I thought Amy Marie was earnest, but I came to think she's an emotional hypocrite.

 

 

Same here,

 

She didn't seem an ordinary fundy when she first came here, this is for sure. She seemed, maybe, a bit misguided, but eager to know us and willing to withstand the sheer number of our questions. But her continuous dodging has gone on too far, even for very simple questions, so it's very hard to believe in her honesty anymore.

I won't surrender, though. I didn't write a post as long as my latest one to her, just to see her ignoring it altogether. If I would've wanted a stunned silence, I could've written a one-liner.

 

Amy, you do have a post of mine you should still answer to - the apocalyptically long post. If you don't want to, do it anyway, at least in respect of the time I spent in writing it to you.

 

As far as I can see, she never answered your questions about what "God" was accomplishing by the Flood and its aftermath, etc. etc. Typical of fundies; they think they have a point to make and in the end, they can only reference Scripture in a circle or else appeal to their personal experience, as though it's more valid than other people's personal experience.

 

I wonder, how CAN she still not understand what it is we're asking her? After we repeated it to her over and over? The way I see it, there are only a few possibilities.

1) She understands what kind of answer we want, but she fears this could bring her to ultimately admit that Odin is better than Jesus. So she pretends she doesn't understand. So she is dishonest and a hypocrite.

2) She just can't understand. Since we've asked her even yes and no questions, this means she's stupid.

No matter which one it is, I'm still waiting for her answer.

 

I'm happier than in at least five years. My relationship of 23 years collapsed last year - wasn't caused or desired by me. I went through a lot of grief and despair. There wasn't much I could do except just keep going and hope for new life eventually. I've met a wonderful new boyfriend, and we're even better suited to each other than my old lover and I were - except for those little connections that build up into a fabric over many years. But we're weaving our new fabric, so to speak.

 

Ah, wonderful! I'm both really sorry for the pain you've felt, and happy because your new relationship is proving to be woven with better threads than the last one. I'm sure it will become a true tapestry with time

 

I'm already in italy withdrawal, haven't been in two years. At least the ship crooner is out. I wonder if he'll climb back into power?

 

Since he has lost by just a handful of votes, he'll still be in the parliament, as the current leader of opposition. He's doing all he can to come back into power. He needed, about... 3 weeks after the election to admit he had been beaten. He claimed fraud, he claimed that communists around italy had hidden his votes and that was the reason he lost, he claimed that the current government will destroy italy and ruin it... I wonder what would've happened if Kelly had behaved that way when he lost against Bush. As it is, it was pretty pathetic, a 70 years old man desperately trying to grab as much power as he can...

 

Good news though, the new government has announced that the berlusconian law about giving church even more privileges will be promptly deleted. Ooh, yeah!

 

Ok, back to waiting for amy's answer.

[Antlerman]

Everyone:

 

If one should worship Jesus or Odin should be based on fact. If you are worshipping Odin and Jesus ends up being the fact where does that leave you? Don't you ever have "What if?" questions?

If I'm wrong I have nothing to lose on the other hand...

Alright Amy, I've been laying low in this discussion because the answer to the question is so obvious - it's a unanswerable question. The question is about personal realationships. Arguing who has a better spouse with a friend is just as ridiculous. It a personal preference. Both have value. To you Jesus is the right choice. I would hope you feel that way considering it's the choice you've made. If anything you should be saying why Jesus if better than Odin for you. Not why Jesus is better than Odin. No one see another human (or human creation in this case) through the same eyes.

 

But what you just said here draws me in because this is what I have been trying, yes trying quite patiently to get you talk about. Yet despite my patience and support I show to you, I suspect you will again be unable to prevent yourself from chasing after quibblings that you know cannot be resolved, for they are personal, not objective. I hope I'm wrong Amy and you are in this for more than some act of playing the role of Perpetua for some deliberate self abusive to seek spiritual experience for yourself.

 

I would like to start a new topic with you that takes off from what you just said here. Are you willing to have a discussion with me, and a number of others that come to mind? What you just said above that I hightled in red, I don't see anywhere in the tenents of Christian faith, one that proclaims you are saved by faith. Pascal's Wager is the argument you just forth and I think it's worth going down that road of discussion with you. What do you say, new topic? Will you talk with me?

 

Edit: The reason why I want this discussion is because you are demonstrating a need to have other's agree with you about your choice of god. That shows a lack of faith to me. Something's missing for you, maybe? You shouldn't need to prove this to others.

[Vigile]

Since no one else here is going to speak up for Jesus, I am.

Since every one finds great delight in ridiculing His sacrifice and reducing it "to a walk in the park" as though it was nothing I'm here to say the opposite is true.

Since strength is what appeals to Odin's fans I am speaking of a greater strength that will show itself mightily in the Warrior Christ.

The crucified Christ is null and void here so perhaps the returning Christ will be more convincing.

 

yes, but just like Cartman's imagination your responses about his return are all conjecture.

 

And, I and another poster have outlined why what is considered a sacrifice by you is really not a sacrifice at all. You got huffy about it, but you have not addressed our criticisms of your position. What he supposedely endured was a walk in the park compared to what many, many others have endured on this planet throughout history and most of them never received a reward for doing so. Why is his "sacrifice" significant?

[Lycorth]

^..^

[♦ ficino ♦]

Everyone:

 

If one should worship Jesus or Odin should be based on fact. If you are worshipping Odin and Jesus ends up being the fact where does that leave you? Don't you ever have "What if?" questions?

If I'm wrong I have nothing to lose on the other hand...

 

Amy, everyone is jumping on you for the above statement, and rightly so. You started the physical resurrection thread, for example, trying to argue that there is a factual basis to that doctrine. Your evidence amounted only to: 1. quotations from the Bible, the historicity of which is the very point in question, so this part of your argument is a petitio principii (assuming the very point to be proved); 2. your selective retelling of the story, which added no historical or scientific evidence to the scriptures you referenced; 3. invoking your personal experience; 4. appeal to teachings of Jesus' second coming and scaring us with his end-times wrath (this again devolved into evidence from the bible, not historical or scientific evidence).

 

So you have offered no facts to demonstrate that any of your doctrinal assertions are true. What is factual in your various posts are assertions that an ancient collection of texts says such and such, and your assertions that you have experienced and felt such and such. Where's the fact that compels "one," i.e. people other than you, to worship Jesus?

 

You can get away with saying that you have reasons for your belief, but until you've shown under what conditions some assertion gets to be considered a statement of fact about history or science, you don't have the right to talk about "facts" that you present to justify Christian doctrine.

 

So either go away or grow up and get serious.

 

Where's your answer to Asuryan's questions about the flood? Don't come back until you've done justice to them.

[trashy]

Pascal's Wager is only valid unless some other religion proposes similar threats of eternal torture........oh, wait - they did? oops....

[white_raven23]

This is the post that got me going. Jesus is mostly dipicted weak and slain but is no mention of His courage in facing one of the cruelest tortures of His time?

 

SHUT UP!!!

 

Whoever you are this time, perhaps you want to backtrack a few pages. You seem to have a little amnesia regarding SCAPHISMUS!!!!!

 

I was willing to doubt myself before....but I don't now.

 

YOU ARE NOT AMY!!!

 

DOES ANYONE ELSE NOT NOTICE THAT HER "VOICE" HAS CHANGED AGAIN?

 

Especially seeing as there seems to be a total "amnesia" regarding stuff we have already beaten to the ground, and this person is bringing the same old shit up again, as if we HADN'T already addressed it?

 

Maybe your fantasy myth boy toy ressurrects, but you can't ressurect argument points that have already been exhausted within this very thread as though they are new material! So either you think we have no memory to speak of, or you yourself have no memory to speak of. OR you are a completely different person, writting under Amy Marie's account because she can't hold her own, and has proved it.

 

YOU think you can do better.....but you were too lazy to read the whole thread to see what had been covered already!

[♦ ficino ♦]

At the beginning I thought Amy was serious, but now she's advancing into trolldom.