LosingMyReligion Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Growing up, we all read the story about God creating man and taking some ribs and making a woman...blah, blah, blah. Well, if that is true(not that I believe it)then why do all human beings start off as female...Why do men have nipples? I ask because I got into a debate with a fundie relative about it...Long story short he couldn't find any scripture and gave the typical, "You are trying to rationalize the power of GAWD" spiel... So why are fundies so conditioned to believe that God is only a man? They literally foam at the mouth like Cujo when you even allude to the possibility of God being a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Mother Atheist Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 So why are fundies so conditioned to believe that God is only a man? They literally foam at the mouth like Cujo when you even allude to the possibility of God being a woman. Most societies are patriarchal nowadays. Therefore, god is a man. It is very interesting that the first few mentions of god in the bible actually translates plurally as gods. It's not the royal we, it really was a "we" in the text! So it has obvious roots in the polytheistic religions preceding it. But yes, the creation myth doesn't line up with science. People of that time just assumed, I suppose, that woman came from man because they viewed man as superior in their patriarchal society. The mere fact that all babies start as females shows that the Bible is written by individuals trying to figure out what happened at creation but that they really DON'T KNOW! People aren't willing to let go of the idea of god as a man because to do so would upset their own patriarchal society. To many people, it would also be to undermine god because many people still view men to be dominate and stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Are there any religions that currently worship goddess or the Goddess (old and new)? Weren't the first original gods considered women? What about the origin of mother nature? I'm really interested in it. If there really was a God (not the jewish god just one in general) to me it would make more sense that she was a woman. Women create life Women protect their children (so they are caring and loving) Women provide Norishment (for babies) Women nurture All human essentially start out as female Females are essential to reproduce (for some species all they need are women) Men fight for women Men die for women Women are more beautiful etc etc etc Well anywayz i'd be more interested in worshipping a woman than a man (why worship a guy anyway?). Most men seem to go out of there way to worship women anyways so kinda seems natural Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sara Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I agree, if you just look at Christianity it's so sexist. A lot of the time women aren't allowed to preach because somehow God speaks to men more and they are more spiritual. In the one I was brought up in, women had to wear a hat to show their submission to men. It's a load of crap if you ask me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 And here's a twist to it all, if the argument of a creator of the universe comes from the understanding that everything we have is made by a designer, like a car etc. Then what about "life"? Where do we get life from? From a mom and dad, and the baby is born from the mom, so naturally, the religious should consider that God is a male and female, and the world was born from the female God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Meadows Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Are there any religions that currently worship goddess or the Goddess (old and new)? Weren't the first original gods considered women? What about the origin of mother nature? I'm really interested in it. If there really was a God (not the jewish god just one in general) to me it would make more sense that she was a woman. Women create life Women protect their children (so they are caring and loving) Women provide Norishment (for babies) Women nurture All human essentially start out as female Females are essential to reproduce (for some species all they need are women) Men fight for women Men die for women Women are more beautiful etc etc etc Well anywayz i'd be more interested in worshipping a woman than a man (why worship a guy anyway?). Most men seem to go out of there way to worship women anyways so kinda seems natural The worship of the Goddess appears to have been virtually universal at one point in mankinds history but at a certain stage the emphasis changed and many religions became primarily patriarchal even though the Goddess, in her various names, never dissapeared. Some the strange stories that from part of greek myths are believed to be attempts at recording these events in the language and symbols we nowdays recognise as myth. The rise of judaism/xtianity/Islam, and the intolerance they are famed for, forced the worship of the Goddess undergound but they never conquered. Indeed in the orthodox and catholic church's the worship of the Goddess can be traced in the veneration given to the mother of Jesus, but anybody who actually thinks this, never mind says it, is a heritic in their eyes. The Goddess appears to her followers as being so sweet and maternal that she does not seem to mind. Outside of the big monotheistic religions the Goddess is worshipped today. There are plenty of web sites to research - do a search on paganism, Goddess .......and you will find plenty. You will find an average pagan a much easier person to get on with than the fundie xtians who demonise everything outside of their fold. My own opinion is that the world would be much better place if it was the Goddess who was worshipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 So why are fundies so conditioned to believe that God is only a man? Come on, you know the answer, don't you? Brainwashing. If there really was a God (not the jewish god just one in general) to me it would make more sense that she was a woman. Absolutely. Logical thinking, easily understandable even in the stone age: Female (of whatever species) needs fertilization (by the corresponding male) to bring forth new life. Earth needs rain for plants to grow. Ergo: Skyfather's seed fertilizes Earthmother to bring forth new life. Painfully logical (for one who doesn't know about science), no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Actually, the way I understand, the female prototype myth is just that. We are neither male nor female until hormone introduction based upon the chromosomes we end up with. And there is a reason men have nipples, I just can't remember what it is yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I always figured male nipples were strictly decorative. (Or else were for twisting when he misbehaves.) There's a thought that, as Golden Meadows has pointed out, a good portion of humanity did worship a Goddess for some 40,000 years. Check out anything by the archaeologist Marija Gimbutas about that. Riane Eisler, Richard Rudgley, and Merlin Stone also have some interesting things to say about early religious practices, and why & how we switched from a goddess to a god. I think humanity makes god in its own image, and whoever's in control gets to make the popular image of god. Hence, a culture or society where men are in charge and men are the schizznat is going to have a definitely male god. It might be like the Greeks, where there were lots of gods of both genders but the Big Kahuna - Zeus - was male, or it might be like Xianity, where there isn't any female deity at all. I suppose it just depends on how much a culture reveres men, coupled with how much it devalues women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notasheep Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 hmm. Created in the image of god (male). the church is the bride of christ. And they're against gay marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 hmm. Created in the image of god (male). the church is the bride of christ. And they're against gay marriage? Remember there are like 12 churches in revelation. So it's for polygamy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Extian Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 How do you know Adam had nipples? In the womb I know that everyone starts off being made a woman, but then a certain chemical kicks in to change the developement to that of a man. I had assumed that the reasoning behind this was that the embryo begins as a clone of its host, who is a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 2005 Article And why do men have nipples? While only females have mammary glands, we all start out in a similar way in the embryo, the authors explain. The embryo follows a female template until about six weeks, when the male sex chromosome kicks in. Men, however, have already developed nipples. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8798141/ We all start of as female so says New York Physician Billy Goldberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofspong Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 An interesting fact I saw on this nature show, was a species of desert lizard that is asexual. Appearently, the male members of the species died out some time ago; Now, all current members of the species are female, and they fertlize themselves by stimulated their sexual organs via "fake sex". (One lizard mounts another, and they go at it, but no genetic information is transfered) So, each lizardling is basically a clone of the parent. Its a known fact that the male Y chromosome in humans is considerably smaller than the X chromosome. Perhaps, one day, the Y chromosome will shrink itself into non-existence, and men will become extinct? Better enjoy our dicks now ladies, us guys may not be around in the next couple of millenium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicoleeann Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 If there was any god i would assume that it would be asexual or hermaphrodite. this may sound weird but it also seems to me like people in general are becoming more hermaphroditish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sage Nabooru Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I agree, if you just look at Christianity it's so sexist. A lot of the time women aren't allowed to preach because somehow God speaks to men more and they are more spiritual. In the one I was brought up in, women had to wear a hat to show their submission to men. It's a load of crap if you ask me!! You know, women actually tend to be more spiritual then men. I've read before that in certain belief systems a person has to be reincarnated many times over before one is spiritually advanced enough to become a woman. This is because women represent higher aspirations and development, such as peace, diplomacy, harmony, nurturing, responsibility, respect for life, etc., where as men, being baser, represent more primitive aspects, such as war, selfishness, overconfidence, materialism, domination over others, inequality, etc. An interesting thought........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Meadows Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I agree, if you just look at Christianity it's so sexist. A lot of the time women aren't allowed to preach because somehow God speaks to men more and they are more spiritual. In the one I was brought up in, women had to wear a hat to show their submission to men. It's a load of crap if you ask me!! You know, women actually tend to be more spiritual then men. I've read before that in certain belief systems a person has to be reincarnated many times over before one is spiritually advanced enough to become a woman. This is because women represent higher aspirations and development, such as peace, diplomacy, harmony, nurturing, responsibility, respect for life, etc., where as men, being baser, represent more primitive aspects, such as war, selfishness, overconfidence, materialism, domination over others, inequality, etc. An interesting thought........ I agree, in my experience the most spiritual/loving people I met as xtian were women. Even in the NT it is the women who are depicted as following Jesus right until the end. The xtian soul is also usually described in terms of "she" as is the church in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 How do you know Adam had nipples? How do you know Adam had a penis? How do you even know Adam existed? I don't know where the "nipple" gene is located, but his "nipple" less feature would have gone down in the generations as a hereditary trait. We should have nipple vs nippleless males today if that was the case. Unless, you're claiming that DNA didn't work back then, and that his first kids were created too, but with nipples. Or, do you suddenly agree to mutations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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