Good Question I Think

[Abiyoyo]

I asked why Jeezus is more worthy than other gods, gods who do not demand our crawling servitude nor behave like one tenth the asshole Jeezus did, gods who don't sass their mothers or liken us to dumb animals. Why is Jeezus more worthy? Because he threatens us with Hell? Because he rose from the dead?

 

Amy, Odin rose from the dead. He hung on Yggdrasil nine days and nights, and died to gain the knowledge of the runes. That knowledge was passed on to us, along with all his other wisdom that he won with his sacrifice. Odin doesn't demand I kiss his ass or debase myself for him. Odin doesn't damn my poor father to Hell because he had to get a divorce, or consider my kind and loving mother an adulterous whore because she married my divorced father - or me a bastard because I am the product of their union. Odin doesn't send people to everlasting torment because they don't believe in him; in fact, deeds are the measure of a person's worth to Odin, not their religion. So, Odin is much better than Jeezus, even according to your own logic.

 

And the story of Odin's resurrection is known to be much older than the Gospels, making it the elder resurrection tale. So, on age-based veracity alone I should accept Odin before Jeezus.

 

Why should I worship Jeezus and not Odin?

 

I hope you believe this but I really appreciate you. Although at first I was taken back by the way you express yourself, I'm just not used to that kind of talk. One thing's for sure, you're no phoney hypocrite.

 

I do strive to be honest. I will not turn the other cheek or refuse to resist. The strong survive.

 

Look. Of course I would like you to see Jesus the way I see Him. All your quotes about the angry Jesus...I don't think you are seeing some of them correctly,

 

I used to see Jeezus much as you did. I was a Xian, and a very fervent one often times, for 27 years. I'm 29 now. I officially renounced Xianity in my heart one year ago this month, after a year's worth of serious debating and soul-searching. If I am seeing anything Jeezus said incorrectly, please explain my errors. However, you'll have to do a bang-up job, because in 27 years of Xianity I learned a thing or two about that devil you worship.

 

Varokhar, pain, uneexplainable tragedy is a huge sharp thorn in the heart and a cruel reminder that life sometimes sucks and causes us to scream, "Your unfair and I hate You!" I had a friend who lost her dad when she was young and when I tried to comfort her with the thought of Jesus she said, "If I saw Jesus right now I'd spit it His face."

 

Years later she came back to her faith.

 

I can only speculate that she knew nothing else to come back to. Xianity has a nasty habit of becoming a security blanket for people in hard times. Even if they renounce it, Xianity is so deeply ingrained, indeed the default system of spiritual thinking for most Westerners, they usually cannot bring themselves to think it's all untrue. Hence, when they feel the need to become religious, they defer to Xianity, and the cycle goes on.

 

I dropped Xianity after the worst upheaval of my life, one in which I teetered on the brink of suicide (and any suidical thoughts began in my time as a Xian, so Jeezus dropped the ball again). I delved into Deism and being nonreligious for a time, but when the need and desire for religion grew again in me, I deferred instead to the traditional religious views of my ancestors, not the artificial one imported from Palestine.

 

And isn't tragedy a good enough reason to deny the existence of a supposedly omnipotent god, one who is supposedly all-loving and all-good and all-powerful? Those traits, when combined, should provoke a being to eliminate all suffering and evil, not sit on his heavenly ass and ordain that humans jump through hoops in order to escape eternal agony. The mere existence of evil and mishap in the world disproves the nature of your god, and hence disproves your god. If Xianity posited a god which had to implement his plan of salvation through struggle, not fiat, then perhaps I'd be a bit more favorably inclined towards it. But to think of a god who could vanquish all evil and sin yet does not do so is outrageous. Such a god is a devil if devil ever existed.

 

When it comes to my own unanswered questions when I started studying His passion and sufferings it was like He took that sharp thorn in my heart and placed it in His.

 

Lovely poetic language, but it only displays your own personal feelings about your god. It does not prove your god either exists or is as good and loving as it would have you think. I suggest you were merely moved by the religious writings of the faith you were raised with, the only religion you knew. You were not moved because of any greater realization of their veracity other than the fact you were brought up with such things. Not that I am telling you how you think, mind you, but if I am mistaken, please explain how your personal feelings validate the nature and existence of the Xian god.

 

I saw He wasn't a myth so the pain Jesus experienced was real. That was the turning but for me. That's what turned my anger into love and worship.

 

How do you know Jeezus wasn't a myth? And how do you know this Jeezus isn't a malevolent noncorporeal life-form, an evil spirit if you will, who likes to fuck with people's minds and hearts? I have been speculating recently that Jeezus, if he exists, is actually an evil spirit who likes to trick and torment. That would explain the "inspiration" that people feel as well as the occasional "vision" of Jeezus, for if an evil spirit exists, surely it can wing something like that. It would also explain why there is no real-world evidence for Jeezus having physically lived and died as the Babble says he did - an evil spirit isn't a living person of flesh and blood. Jeezus is either pure fiction, or an evil spirit - no good god can possibly have said the wicked things he did, like comapring divorced people to adulterers or saying that those who are not with him are against him and will be tormented eternally.

 

But back to the topic at hand, which I really want addressed most of all - why should I worship Jeezus and not Odin? Odin does not place unnatural demands on me, require that I place him above my family or loved ones, ordain that I will be tortured forever if I do not believe in him, give me a book full of contradictions to follow, tell me parables that he deliberately worded to confuse people, and otherwise act like a dictator. Odin also rose from the dead (after hanging on the World Tree) and tore out his own eye to gain greater wisdom (per the Vafthruthnismal, where Odin matches wits against a wise giant) - he suffered for a greater good, and what he won was passed on to us. Odin doesn't try to scare me into a certain religion with threats of eternal fire, nor does he expect I do anything other than live my life and live it wisely and honorably. Odin doesn't judge me based on my religion, but rather the content of my character, and Odin will lead the forces of Asgard against the Aetins (giants) at the last battle, so Odin clearly does many good and selfless things which benefit us, according to the legends.

 

I ask again, considering all that, why should I believe in and worship Jeezus, who asks wicked things of me and also possess a questionable character, and not Odin, who is not depicted as being one tenth the worship-obsessed dictator that Jeezus is?

 

 

I have come upon this debate alot in my in and outs through here. I would like to see some comments on my reply to this topic.

 

So. My question is this. Out of the people portrayed above or any others that claimed divinity of some sort, Did any of these people, myths, legends, spirits, etc claim to be of heir or even practice of the God of Israel?

 

If so, who, and in what timeframe?

[Lycorth]

It's stupid to start a thread about the same things that are being discussed in another thread.

 

But again, no - Judaism™ is much younger than most of the world's religions, so why would they?

 

Everything does not revolve around Israel and Judaism™, you know.

 

This is honestly one of the dumbest questions I've ever heard.

[Abiyoyo]

It's stupid to start a thread about the same things that are being discussed in another thread.

 

But again, no - Judaism is much younger than most of the world's religions, so why would they?

 

Everything does not revolve around Israel and Judaism, you know.

 

This is honestly one of the dumbest questions I've ever heard.

 

 

First of all, there are no dumb questions. Secondly, I believe the reason it is not up to your degree of discussion is because its not a question that soneone can expound and pick apart until some underline point is made.

 

The question is valid and factual, unless someone leads me to believe otherwise. There is one other person that has claimed to have been derived from the God of Israel.

 

And your "this is stupid" comment leads me to believe that you are correct with your self persona, in that you have left Christianity and just really dove into another self absorbed religion or sect.

 

Find yourself, then your religion.

[Lycorth]

Aww, you hurt my wittle feelings

 

Not

 

 

So, if it is so valid and factual, then explain to me what descending from the "house of Israel" has to do with anything? So you believe that Jeezus™ claimed to, yes? What does that have to do with anything?

 

Sorry, this is the Lion's Den - don't expect tea and krumpets.

[Fweethawt]

Find yourself, then your religion.

When you "find yourself", you don't need a religion.

[Abiyoyo]

Aww, you hurt my wittle feelings

 

Not

 

 

So, if it is so valid and factual, then explain to me what descending from the "house of Israel" has to do with anything? So you believe that Jeezus claimed to, yes? What does that have to do with anything?

 

Sorry, this is the Lion's Den - don't expect tea and krumpets.

 

 

Look man. I know the this and thats about the Bible and all the deviations and whatnots. Ask the others I been here a while. So save me the "Bible is false" stuff and Ill be glad to discuss my opinions about this topic.

 

All Im saying in regard to this topic is that many say that there was this guy and that, from this rligion or cult, sect, etc. that as well claimed to die and rise again and performed many miracles. i am poking at the idea of these people in thought of comparing them, to there groups writtings, and the accuracy of those writtings toward them or in general to the equivalent of a " Holy One".

[Lycorth]

That's fine, but that's not what you asked. You asked if any god or other mythological figure claimed descent from the House of Israel, implying that such descent is absolutely important for a god to be considered worthy to begin with.

 

And any such talk about this topic is going to end up veering into whether or not the Babble™ is false, so you may want to rethink this whole thing.

[Abiyoyo]

That's fine, but that's not what you asked. You asked if any god or other mythological figure claimed descent from the House of Israel, implying that such descent is absolutely important for a god to be considered worthy to begin with.

 

And any such talk about this topic is going to end up veering into whether or not the Babble is false, so you may want to rethink this whole thing.

 

 

Maybe. But keep in mind that if indeed it is a false peice of literature, then how comparable are the other writtings accordingly. if you weighed the topic of the Bibles validity againist any other religions, where would they fall.

[JeffXL]

The question remains-- so what if someone says that he or she is descended from an imaginary being, whoever or whatever nationality dreamed him up? But even in the OT bullshit, Je$u$ still could not manage to fulfill the "prophecies" contained therein.

 

Muhammed is the Seal of The Prophets. Who else claims that? Then Islam MUST be true!

 

And, of course, there have been other wannabe messiahs in history. Bar Kochba comes to mind.

 

Self-absorbed religion? Have you actually taken the time to look into Varokhar's spirituality, jackass? Typical Christian bigotry.

[Abiyoyo]

The question remains-- so what if someone says that he or she is descended from an imaginary being, whoever or whatever nationality dreamed him up? But even in the OT bullshit, Je$u$ still could not manage to fulfill the "prophecies" contained therein.

 

Muhammed is the Seal of The Prophets. Who else claims that? Then Islam MUST be true!

 

And, of course, there have been other wannabe messiahs in history. Bar Kochba comes to mind.

 

Self-absorbed religion? Have you actually taken the time to look into Varokhar's spirituality, jackass? Typical Christian bigotry.

 

 

 

What the hell is up with the assumtions and dumb comments!!!!!!

 

 

No jackass. But I will. There, I have lowered myself to your level. Are u happy now?

 

He said himself in another thread that " he dove into". Anytime you dive into anything you are seeking instant comfort in something.

[Mythra]

Philo talked about a Son of God - and yes, it was the Israelite God he was referring to. He also spoke of the logos.

 

But he never heard of Jesus.

 

These were just theological concepts to him.

 

It took someone with more imagination to turn them into Jesus.

[Lycorth]

Maybe. But keep in mind that if indeed it is a false peice of literature, then how comparable are the other writtings accordingly. if you weighed the topic of the Bibles validity againist any other religions, where would they fall.

 

The Babble™ is rife with contradictions and hence it is mocked by many, and ignored by many times more.

 

Babble™ Errancy

 

Skeptic's Annotated Babble™

 

Those two alone display how screwed up the Babble™ is in terms of contradictions alone. Add that to the cruel concept of Hell™ and the bloodthirsty activity of Yahooweh™ in the OT, and the Babble™ defeats itself before it is even compared to the writings of other religions.

 

Compare the Babble™ to Buddhism's teachings of wisdom-seeking and inner peace, or to Odinism's practical, wordly advice found in the beginning of the Havamal, and you'd have a humiliated stack of Abrahamic nonsense on your hands. The Babble™ doesn't hold a candle to any other religion.

 

Jeff - of course he didn't take an honest look into my spirituality. Do you expect a fire-in-the-tum-tum-for-Jeezus™ Xian to actually give a shit about what someone else believes? All they think is that anything not Xian is self-absorbed, sin-serving, devil-worshipping occultism. Funny, that, when Xianity is one of the most self-serving religions on earth; what other religion revolves around getting oneself into Heaven™, even if it means turning your back on friends and family? What other religion makes a person focus so much on how "evil" and "wicked" they are and encourages so much self-abasement, which is just another form of self-absorption?

 

We know the answer

[♦ nivek ♦]

YoYo...

 

You grok the term d i v e?

 

Comfort?

 

Have you ever taken the plunge with 150 pounds of nitrox gear and body for a widdle bitsey dive to 120-225 feet down SCUBA?

 

Dropped out of the back of a Hercules at 15k feet and dived towards earth with nothing but the nyon ripstop material'd backpack on your back, trusting it'll work as designed and open?

 

I have, and where there is mucho fuckin' satisfaction, a whole lotta thrill, and some glorfied pure ole boy can of kickass, "comfort" it just aint.

 

"Taking comfort in" is not under any circumstances a correct definition for the term *dove or dived into*.

 

Try again please.

 

kL

[Lycorth]

Zackly, nivek.

 

I dove into Morrowind a few years ago, not because I was seeking comfort and escapism, but just because I had a good time playing a video game, which is quite rare for me at this stage of life. Doesn't mean I was seeking comfort in it

 

Xians have to believe that people seek things out in order to assuage their Jeezus™-starved souls and fill that "Gawd-shaped hole" in their hearts. Not necessarily so - most people on this board are just fine without concerning themselves with religion or Jeezus™ at all, and religion may be a topic of interest, but by no means an obsession, with most of the folks here.

 

Again, what can we expect?

[JeffXL]

The question remains-- so what if someone says that he or she is descended from an imaginary being, whoever or whatever nationality dreamed him up? But even in the OT bullshit, Je$u$ still could not manage to fulfill the "prophecies" contained therein.

 

Muhammed is the Seal of The Prophets. Who else claims that? Then Islam MUST be true!

 

And, of course, there have been other wannabe messiahs in history. Bar Kochba comes to mind.

 

Self-absorbed religion? Have you actually taken the time to look into Varokhar's spirituality, jackass? Typical Christian bigotry.

 

 

 

What the hell is up with the assumtions and dumb comments!!!!!!

 

 

No jackass. But I will. There, I have lowered myself to your level. Are u happy now?

 

He said himself in another thread that " he dove into". Anytime you dive into anything you are seeking instant comfort in something.

 

 

Wow. You KEEP MAKING THEM, jackass. I know it's hard for you Christians, but *try* not make things up, OK? Keep your fantasy world within the confines of your fantasy religion.

 

See, when you're a lying bigot, I'm going to call you on it. Try... to... understand.

 

And, of course, you, like so many Xians, completely ignore actual discourse. Try again.

[Asuryan]

Zackly, nivek.

 

I dove into Morrowind a few years ago, not because I was seeking comfort and escapism, but just because I had a good time playing a video game, which is quite rare for me at this stage of life. Doesn't mean I was seeking comfort in it

 

 

 

As soon as you're done with it, play Oblivion too - Morrowind's sequel! If you liked Morrowind, there are good chances you'll like Oblivion even more than Morrowind!

 

 

 

Back on topic... well: Yoyo, why does it matter what religion is the oldest of them all?

Why would it matter if the YHWH religion was older than Varokhar's religion (which is not)?

 

Is X being older than Y proof that X is better or truer than Y?

Hmm... I'd like to have a little chat with hitler then... he's older than me, so his reasonings and principles must be better than mine, right? Too bad he's dead!

[DanInPA]

....why does it matter what religion is the oldest of them all?

 

 

Actually, once I began questioning Xianity it was the desire to find out the truth about god and looking for the "earliest" religion, that led me to conclude that all gods were imiginary.

 

[quicksand]

That's fine, but that's not what you asked. You asked if any god or other mythological figure claimed descent from the House of Israel, implying that such descent is absolutely important for a god to be considered worthy to begin with.

So if I am to follow YoYo's reasoning here that since Jesus fits the bill, he's blamo, who the apostles says he is.

 

Cool.

 

Alexander of Macendonia claimed to be the son of Zeus and even had Egyptian priests confirm this.

 

Therefore, Alexander was a son of Zeus – a son of god.

[nick5]

I have come upon this debate alot in my in and outs through here. I would like to see some comments on my reply to this topic.

 

So. My question is this. Out of the people portrayed above or any others that claimed divinity of some sort, Did any of these people, myths, legends, spirits, etc claim to be of heir or even practice of the God of Israel?

 

If so, who, and in what timeframe?

 

 

The god of Israel is actually 3 pagan gods.

Isis, Amen-RA(yes, he's the one you invoke everytime you say "amen"), and El. Get it? Is-Ra-El.

This is why the OT god uses "we" and "us" when he talks. It was originally many gods and it was edited later to become one.

 

The "god of israel" isn't more important than any of the other pagan gods.

Also, many people claimed to be the son of god (which god doesn't matter, they're all fake anyways). The story of Jesus wasn't new or original even when it was just made up. New character and settings, but same old story.

[Lycorth]

As soon as you're done with it, play Oblivion too - Morrowind's sequel! If you liked Morrowind, there are good chances you'll like Oblivion even more than Morrowind!

 

I'd be on it now, but my processor and video card are sub-par to run it

 

The god of Israel is actually 3 pagan gods.

Isis, Amen-RA(yes, he's the one you invoke everytime you say "amen"), and El. Get it? Is-Ra-El.

This is why the OT god uses "we" and "us" when he talks. It was originally many gods and it was edited later to become one.

 

Ooo, fascinating. A nice sandpaper dildo to sodomize the Xian cult with. What are your sources for this?

[nick5]

You should check out the documentary, "the naked truth" with Jordan Maxwell. you can find a torrent of it on www.mininova.org , or if you dont want to download it, watch it online right here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=64...the+naked+truth

 

It's nearly 2 hours, but you'll learn A LOT. I enjoyed it very much.

[Lycorth]

It's nearly 2 hours, but you'll learn A LOT. I enjoyed it very much.

 

It's bookmark material at the very least - my thanks