God, Jesus Or Man: Who Led You Away?

[Vigile]

The answer to this is so simple that a simpleton such as yourself can never see it.

 

Reason led most of us away.

 

Gulibility keeps you in the flock.

 

Why have you abandoned trying to find the truth?

 

Here's a more apt question: Why have you never looked for the truth?

 

The answer? Because you think you already found it. In some vernaculars that's called "bassackwards."

[Golden Meadows]

The things I've read on this web site are a sad commentary on Christianity indeed. But the truth is what I've read about is people who have been disappointed by other people. Religion – what it is: It's just man's attempt at trying to figure out what God wants from them. Whether you've been a Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic, or other, you've been disappointed by someone human - not God and Jesus.

This is too much of a simplification. Many, if not most, of the people on this board have left xtianity behind purely through using their reasoning faculties. There are others who have had very bad experiences with xtianity through its members or with Jesus. That does mean that they have left through a fit of bad temper. What seems to happen is that a person tries to bury the doubts they have about the bible being obviously not the word of God, about the nature of the God they have been taught to worship with their whole being, and many other things because they have so much invested in it and there is the constant intimidation of hell ever present. At some point though it just becomes an impossible situation and the something happens that results in all the things that were suppressed coming to the fore. At that point the person has no option but to become honest with themself if they do not want to lose their mind and their humanity. Its like the lifting of mist and the person sees xtianity for what it really is for the first time in their lives, its almost like being born again.

 

So you think you've been let down by God and Jesus too? Well God is not our Genie in Heaven, He's our Father in Heaven. He has given us free will to mess up our lives all on our own.

People do not choose the natural catastrophies that visit them, people do not choose to see their loved ones die, or to think that people are sentenced to everlasting torment in hell by the xtian God , never having asked to be born in the first place.

 

Thing is . . . He's still there for us . . . And Jesus died for us and is our Mediator – our Bridge to Heaven. They care, They love and They wait for all of us to turn to Them, to trust Them . . .

You sound as if your are under the influence of the Holy Mist as once I was . It has a tendency to cause people to ignore completely facts that blatently contradict their spirituality. It usually results in the suppression of the reasoning faculties.

 

 

Why have you abandoned trying to find the truth?

I know you do not mean it but this this sounds so arrogant! I think that the people on this board have pursued truth and reached the conclusion, based on reason, that the bible is not true and the xtian revelation is not true. They can support their position by sound argument whereas all the xtians who come to this site to push the case for Jesus have to resort to ignoring posts or emotional declarations.

 

 

So you've got doubts. So do we all. No one is 100 percent sure of Heaven unless they've died and been there and come back – which some claim they have. Why do you abandon the only hope we have for eternity? Are you 100 percent sure it isn't true? If you are only 1 percent sure that their might be a possibility of what the Bible promises then why wouldn't you hold on to that 1 percent?

Once again I'm sure you don't mean it but this sounds so selfish, e.g "even if you think the xtian God is an evil monster unworthy of love its better to pretend so that you can get into heaven and escape hell." Do you not realise that most people here could not stand the thought of a "heaven" where those who have sold their souls to the xtian God can give praise to the monster who punishes people for all etenity for a finite crime?

 

There is freedom with Christ . . . I live the way I choose with my eye on the cross. I'm not bound by my sins or by my faith . . . I have freedom to make mistakes, to learn, to try to do better. Christ paid for my mistakes – why would I want to be bound again?

Is there not a risk of hypocrisy here?. Do evil to others but just so long as you sign up the Jesus cult its all right whereas somebody who has actually tried to live the golden rule without even knowing Jesus is going to be tortured by the xtian God for all eternity.

 

You're either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus. I pick Jesus. Without Jesus I have the "freedom" to live carelessly until I die.

The Holy Spirit is supposed to keep a person from sin but as we all know that what xtians call sin continues in xtianity and it does not seem any better than other religious movements in this respect. How about a xtian starting to love their neighbour because its a good thing to do rather than grabbing at the first free ticket into "heaven" or a get out of hell card?

 

O.k. that is a freedom – nothing I want though. I want there to be more . . .

Good for you.

if there is a chance that there is . . . I choose to go the "Way" the Bible directs . . . Is there any other "Way"?

Yes, there are several thousand different denominations in xtianity all with their own take on the "way". This is further eveidence that the Holy spirit of God is not at work.

 

Well . . . not that I'm aware of . . . but who knows . . . Jesus points to a specific gate – I choose to go through that gate . . . I'm a fool? Maybe . . . but I'm happy . . .

Even though its possible most of the people you know and love are not going to make it through the narrow gate but are going to sufffer for all eternity? How can you love such a god, how can you be happy knowing this?

 

 

I'm living a good life that I'm proud of . . . I care about people and their happiness . . .

Just like non xtians are trying to do.

 

I'm raising my daughter in a way that I believe will help her to be happy.

If your daughter is sensitive at all and grows up with a thirst for truth its quite possible that your take on happiness will to lead much pain in later life as it has done for so many people here.

 

My husband is a good man. Works hard, plays hard, is a good father, good husband . . . Are all Christians so lucky? No. But we are.

 

How sad that someone who's lost their faith has decided to persuade others away from their relationship with Christ.

If you have suffered through xtianity and have for good reasons come to the firm conclusion that it is not true then helping others who have been damaged is something virtuous.Remember this board is for ex-christians, its not out selling any brand of religion.

 

Being a Christian is not a religion – it's a relationship with God and Jesus. Do you really want to turn your back on that? On them? Man messes things up – Christians mess things up – over and over they do. Why blame God and Jesus for our mistakes – others mistakes?

We do not think Jesus is God for good reasons. The xtian God is supposed to be all powerfull. He could have made us pefect but chose not to. Instead he made us with an inclination to do those things which he finds displeasing and for this there is high probability that a person will be punished for all eternity - a person that never even asked to be born in the first place. Yes I want to turn my back on such an evil concept.

 

 

Give up on being a Presbyterian. Give up on being a Baptist. Give up on being a Catholic, a Methodist & a Wesleyan. Learn to think for yourselves -- yes.

I am laughing as I type this - "learn to think for yourself" is something I never did as a xtian . Your thinking is constrained by the bible that you take for Gods word and that same bible if full of stuff thats so unworthy of God. To follow the bible is suppress thinking.

 

But don't give up on seeking for truth

With all respect may I suggest you take the same medicine you are prescribing to others.

 

-- And I still believe we can find the truth in God's Word

Xtians have been arguing amongst themselves for 2000 years as to what Gods word is supposed to mean - look at all those different church's from the one person band upwards -so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

 

 

– it's your benefit to figure out what that Word is by searching and praying.

The people who take part in this board have indeed figured out what the word is and its not for them the word of God.

 

I still believe

But is it something worthy of belief?

 

[RHEMtron]

Whether you’ve been a Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic, or other, you’ve been disappointed by someone human - not God and Jesus.

Humans: yes... im disappointed with the authors of the bible. they couldve at least gotten their story straight.

Jesus: He said "If you ask me anything in My name, i will do it" LIAR!! Or maybe i was just asking the wrong name....

 

And Jesus died for us and is our Mediator – our Bridge to Heaven.

Okay now you lie!!! Youre probably gonna quote Paul, so im going to quote Job... a person who actually spoke with the head honcho God himself:

Job 9:32-33

For he(God) is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there an mediator between us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

 

Are you 100 percent sure it isn’t true?

Im agnostic.... 50% sure and 50% unsure. Like you admitted. We cant know.... so stop acting like you know.

 

I’m not bound by my sins or by my faith . . . I have freedom to make mistakes, to learn, to try to do better. Christ paid for my mistakes – why would I want to be bound again?

Just because youre saved doesnt mean youre going to perform the same "sinful" acts. Learn from your mistakes. It's that simple. That doesnt mean you have to continually kiss ass.

 

You’re either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus.

First off... slave?!?! Is that the FREE WILL you spoke of? I dont want to be a slave to anybody. Second... are you implying that if im not a slave to Jesus that means im a bad person? That's pretty self-righteous...

 

but I’m happy . . . I’m living a good life that I’m proud of . . . I care about people and their happiness . . . I’m raising my daughter in a way that I believe will help her to be happy. My husband is a good man. Works hard, plays hard, is a good father, good husband . . . Are all Christians so lucky? No. But we are.

Again to acknowledge youre living a better, moral life because your are Christian is self-righteous. You must not pay attention to Jesus. What did he say about people who were self-righteous and haughty because of their beliefs?

Luke 18:9-14

and he also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed other with contempt: "two men went up into the temple to pray, one a pharisee and the other a tax collector. the pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'god i thank you that i am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. i fast twice a weak; i pay tithes of all that i get.' but the tax collector, standing some distances away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'god, be merciful to me, the sinner!' i tell you this man went to his house justrified rather that the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

How sad that someone who’s lost their faith has decided to persuade others away from their relationship with Christ.

How sad that someone who is ignorant of the truth tries to persuade the enlightened back to ignorance. The truth has set us free....

 

Just keep in mind the name of the forum. This is a place for us EX-Christians to discuss. We do not advertise Christians to come here. You came here out of your own accord. Youre the evangelist.

 

Being a Christian is not a religion – it’s a relationship with God and Jesus.

A relationship? You dont even address God by his name. So many Christians in this world have been persecuted, tortured, raped, murdered, beaten, abused, molested, etc.... where was this significant other for 2000 years while all this was going on? Youre in a relationship with your husband. If he just stood by and did nothing, i bet you would leave him.

 

Give up on being a Presbyterian. Give up on being a Baptist. Give up on being a Catholic, a Methodist & a Wesleyan. Learn to think for yourselves -- yes. But don’t give up on seeking for truth

We deconverted because we searched the truth. Like i said... the truth has set us free. We continually still seek knowledge and truth. What about you? Can you say the same? You cant find the truth if you limit yourself to only the bible(well actually you can).

 

Well Istillbelieve... just rhemember... BELIEF is NOT the Same as TRUTH!!

[Guest Istillbelieve]

All of you seem to think that I'm deluded, misguided and brainwashed. I'm not. I'm 43 years old, I'm a church secretary, I've been a Sunday School Teacher and this has all been in the timeline of about 14 years. Growing up we attended church when I was very young, but there was a division in the church and my parents left formal religion.

 

They moved down to North Carolina and started back as Methodists. My brother became a Baptist. I resisted it all and even fought with my brother about certain Christian statements regarding separation of church and state etc.

 

A friend invited me to a Baptist church (actually the one that I'm secretary at now) I sang in the choir, attended meetings, but it was mostly to meet people my age. I also played volleyball with another Baptist church for awhile as well. I didn't like the way this one preacher seemed to always be preaching about attendance - I'm here preach on something else . . . I was dating someone at the time - and all messages seemed to on subjects I didn't want to hear about.

 

I left the Baptist church and began going with friends to a Presbyterian Church. Still for the reason to try to find a good man - a husband. Didn't find my guy there but because he moved next door. We got married in the Presbyterian church, continued to go for social reasons, never really understood the true Jesus until our new minister came and recommended that I read the book "The Jesus I Never Knew" by Philip Yancey. That was the beginning of really starting to understand what I was missing as a Christian. Before then, I guess I would have called myself a Christian, but I was not really a true believer. Now I do believe after much searching, rejecting, and arguing on then net. Thanks to people like you who challenged me to search deeper, my faith grew even more . . . that is why I ask you to search deeper.

 

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure. But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

[Lycorth]

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure. But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

Waaah! Cue the violins!

 

You mean we chased you off because you have no way to respond to our comments, and haven't the balls to try. You're also let down that your "faith-bombing" strategy didn't work, and only strengthened our resolve.

 

And such Xian compassion - see ya, wouldn't wanta be ya? Wow, way to make baby Jeezus™ happy. I've heard some sorry ass attempts at evangelization, but that was the worst in recent memory.

 

Here's for you!

 

[white_raven23]

All of you seem to think that I'm deluded, misguided and brainwashed. I'm not. I'm 43 years old, I'm a church secretary, I've been a Sunday School Teacher and this has all been in the timeline of about 14 years. Growing up we attended church when I was very young, but there was a division in the church and my parents left formal religion.

 

How is being a 43 year old church secretary, and former sunday school teacher evidence of NOT being deluded, misguided, and brainwashed? What you think is evidence to the contrary is actually supporting evidence in favor of the assumption you are trying to deny.

They moved down to North Carolina ........

 

<snipped due to total apathy regarding your 'led to Sky Daddy' testimonial history>

 

Thanks to people like you who challenged me to search deeper, my faith grew even more . . . that is why I ask you to search deeper.

No.

Twenty years was enough. I'm on to bigger and better things than your self-esteem raping dogma.

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure.

 

Wah. Cry me a river of blood.

 

Pussy.

 

But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred.

Of course they don't! Biblegod and friends would have to be REAL first!

 

Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven.

 

I have relationships with real people. I'm not so lonely I need an imaginary friend with the magical ability to fix my life for me while I sit on my fat ass and do nothing to change my circumstances for myself.

See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

Ditto.

[Antlerman]

But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

I was waiting to see what sort of Chirstian this was before I expended any energy on answering them. From what I just saw, it speaks quite loudly what sort of person this is, "see ya, wouldn't wanta be ya!" Sweety.... fuck off! You're a hypocrite.

[Caretaker]

The things I’ve read on this web site are a sad commentary on Christianity indeed.

Sorry you feel that way. Get used to it.

 

So you think you’ve been let down by God and Jesus too?

Nope. I just don't think they exist.

 

Why have you abandoned trying to find the truth?

I didn't. I find truth with critical thinking and logic. Something that faith certainly doesn't have.

 

There is freedom with Christ . . . I live the way I choose with my eye on the cross.

I disagree. Ever heard of "Freedom is Slavery?" My freedom is in using my mind the way I see fit.

 

You’re either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus.

Nope. Only YOU believe that. Got proof? Don't show me the Bible, or I will start quoting Star Trek.

 

How sad that someone who’s lost their faith has decided to persuade others away from their relationship with Christ.

I didn't persuade anyone. That is their own right.

 

Being a Christian is not a religion – it’s a relationship with God and Jesus.

BULLSHIT.... Christianity is most certainly a religion. Your attempt at doublespeak is NOT going to impress us.

 

Give up on being a Presbyterian. Give up on being a Baptist. Give up on being a Catholic, a Methodist & a Wesleyan.

I do think for myself. That is why I rejected all of religion. Religion. Religion. RELIGION. Yes, that includes Christianity. I never stopped looking for the truth. I just did not find any truth in any religion.

 

I still believe

Good for you. I do not.

[Ouroboros]

But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus.

They don't deserve your hatred.

Why do you hate the Cute Bunny God so much?

 

Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . .

It has? 70% Christians. President call Atheists non-patriots. Churches get our tax money for restaurations. Famour talk show hosts in radio and TV make references to God hundreds of times a day. Groups that are working on taking away the separation between Church and State and make America a Christian Theocracy. I don't know... I feel it's the opposite. Non-Christians are the ones persecuted by the Christians.

 

but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

Heh. Well, I prefer to build my relationships with REAL people in THIS world, instead of fantasy relationship with something/someone in another dimension that don't even exists.

[nick5]

.

[Golden Meadows]

All of you seem to think that I'm deluded, misguided and brainwashed. I'm not.

o.k stay and convince us. Running away only seems to confirm that there is no substance to your faith.

 

I left the Baptist church and began going with friends to a Presbyterian Church. Still for the reason to try to find a good man - a husband. Didn't find my guy there but because he moved next door. We got married in the Presbyterian church, continued to go for social reasons, never really understood the true Jesus until our new minister came and recommended that I read the book "The Jesus I Never Knew" by Philip Yancey. That was the beginning of really starting to understand what I was missing as a Christian. Before then, I guess I would have called myself a Christian, but I was not really a true believer.

What is your definition of a true xtian?

 

Now I do believe after much searching, rejecting, and arguing on then net.

If this was really true then why not put all the information you have gained into reasonable arguments and persuade us.

 

Thanks to people like you who challenged me to search deeper, my faith grew even more . . . that is why I ask you to search deeper.

The fact that you are running away after the first engagement tends to point towards a puddle deep faith. If your faith was truly strong you would have stayed but instead you run away without answering any of the points raised.

 

 

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure.

Surely you have to accept the tiny little cross Jesus sends you if you are to be a true xtian? or is your xtianity the happy clappy no suffering variety?

 

 

But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it,

All you have written is a lot of emotional stuff . You have chosen to ignore all the valid objections raised against it. This is not witnessing.

 

but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred.

You have not given any reasons why they should be worthy of love whereas people on this board have given their reasons why they think the xtian god is worthy of contempt - you have just ignored it all.

 

 

Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society

You have to take a long good hard look at yourself and ask why. Do you really think you have served the cause of xtianity with your fly over bomb and fly away again strategy?

 

. . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

All you have achieved is to confirm in my mind that xtianity is not what it claims to be and you yourself come across just like those other xtians you condemn in organised religions. Your final comments portray you as a champion of the God of hate. The hate that he works in the bible is reflected in your hateful response.

 

[Vigile]

See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

Wow, what a disingenuous piece of shit you are. Reading most of what your wrote at least I thought you were genuine in your delusion. After reading this last line I just see you as a hateful overgrown juvenile. In my deepest delusion I never smiled at the idea that others were going to hell. You are one of the most disgusting people I've encountered in RL or on the net. Congrats you sick mother fucker.

[Thurisaz]

All of you seem to think that I'm deluded, misguided and brainwashed. I'm not. I'm 43 years old, I'm a church secretary, I've been a Sunday School Teacher and this has all been in the timeline of about 14 years.

 

Riiiiight. And hoover, err, hovind is a real Dr.

Fundies have tried to sell me so many unbelievably fucking stupid lies that I've lost track of the running total loooong ago. Give me a reason to believe you.

 

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure.

 

Good. Your willful ignorance is something we don't care to endure. And, much to your dismay, we own this place.

 

So you're leaving. Oh well. I'm sooooo sad...

 

 

 

...NOT!

[Checkmate]

Well, I for one, am saddened by istillbelieve's departure. I had SO much venom, scorn and derision I wanted to unload on this new fucktard! And now I won't get the chance. Damn.

 

I'm tired of fucking with Amy Marie. It feels like kicking a retarded, quadrapalegic puppy. Not good.

 

Bring me fresh meat! Bring me a challenger to smite with my Unholy Wrath!!!

[white_raven23]

Bring me fresh meat! Bring me a challenger to smite with my Unholy Wrath!!!

 

You're making me tingle.

[Young Mother Atheist]

But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

wow. That is supposed to be indicitive of your relationship with God? If I were him I would leave you in a heartbeat. You don't know what love is if you think saying the things that you said and leaving when people are "vicious" shows your commitment to God. Which means you do believe because of hell fire and damnation. You certainly don't know what caring about people means.

 

I fucking hate people like you.

 

(and I rarely say things like that)

[Kurari]

Feh, how pathetic. You come in here and make a lot of nasty, snotty, rediculous assumptions about us and expect us not to get in your face about it? DUH! If I came onto a Christian board phrasing shit the way you did, I would most certainly expect to get jumped on! Then I'd have the guts to stand behind it.

 

Go ahead, run away squealing like a sheared sheep because things didn't go your way. You're just proving your faith and your God is obviously not worth defending.

 

See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

Baaaaaaaaah!

[Seth C Triggs]

Geez, gal...I wouldn't wanna be you either. It'd kinda be like those people who are fans of Charles Manson or something.

 

Since I'd be doomed anyway under your fatalistic theological dogma, I'm not even going to bother worshiping that sadistic creep you call a god. At least I can get some fun in before the eternal torture for my finite life!

 

-Seth

[Guest Istillbelieve]

Sorry about the See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya. My daughter came into the room and saw me type the last line "See ya!" and she added vocally "wouldn't wanna be ya." I thought it was cute, so I added it, but . . . it wasn't . . . sorry about that.

 

Fresh meat. Sorry about that too. I don't have the time to convince ex-Christians of what they once say they already knew . . . I have doubts that you let God's Word really sink into your heart. I know that I could never turn away from my Lord after, what I do believe, He did for me on the cross.

 

It's not my purpose to Evagengelize any of you hard core non-believers. You've had your so called exposure to my sick religion and have turned away -- I am sad for you -- but then you don't want my pity either . . . so . . .

 

It IS my purpose to reach any who have doubts . . . try again . . . read "The Jesus I Never Knew" and you'll discover a Jesus that is totally different than the one you met in Sunday School. Check out Steve Brown, Josh McDowell, James McDonald and Chip Ingrahm -- all fresh voices that speak from the heart about a faith that definately needs an overhaul.

 

I know that you don't have to be a Christian to be a good person. I've lived many non-Christian years trying my best to treat people right and decent . . . As far as this site however, I don't particularly like being called names and I don't feel like it will do any good for me to stay here and toss insults back and forth. That is not productive. That is not cool. That is not me. I'm not crying -- WAHHHH!!! I'm sad for you all . . . and I do pray that you haven't hardened your hearts to the point of no return. Apostacy is serious business and I hate that for you all. But again, it's not my purpose or responsibility to convince you of what you say you once knew . . . God will touch your heart if it is still capable of being touched.

 

I'm just a wife, mom and someone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour. I'm not ashamed of that faith nor my Father in Heaven, God Almighty, The Great I Am. He created me to walk in His shadow and I'm remaining there. When I have time I'll check replys . . . if there is anything to respond to I will . . . You all take care!

[nick5]

.

[Guest Istillbelieve]

No, Jesus is not evil. You on the other hand . . . why do you keep posting the picture of Jesus from the Passion . . . do you doubt that it really happened in that way? I know . . . of course you do . . . well I believe it did happen that way. The sacrifice was what saved us . . . it's what the people understood back then . . . remember the sacrifices of the lambs, goats, etc. The sinner would place his hand on the animal so that he could feel the life blood of the animal leave it's body . . . they did that so they would understand what their sin cost. A life.

 

A separation from God is only because God is so Pure, so Good, so righteous that He can not tolerate sin. He is our Creator and He loved us so much that He came to be with us - Jesus Christ is God on Earth. He came to be the sacrifice. It is for us to make our vessel a place that He can dwell as well.

 

That is my faith - I'm grateful to Him for His sacrifice - it is a thing of beauty - it seems you can't see past the blood to the heart of the one who chose to die for us. He didn't want any more animal sacrifices. He knew we couldn't do it on our own, so He came to Earth in the life and body of Jesus Christ to help us . . . Sin and God do not mix . . . He is the bridge, the final sacrifice so that we could be with our God in Heaven. He doesn't force any of us to believe . . . He offers this as a gift to take or leave. I'm taking it - you've chosen to turn your back on this gift . . . it's a choice. I've made mine.

[nick5]

.

[RHEMtron]

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure. But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

Our visciousness is something you care not to endure? Your very scripture instructs you to stand your ground when someone asks you about your faith and beliefs. Some Christian you are.

 

Instead of responding with your life story, how bout responding to our arguments. Say youre not brainwashed, but reading your life story, it looks like you have been brainwashed since you were young.

 

you speak of growing because people have challenged you... now that we have challenged you, you run away because youre starting to see the truth, but cognitive dissonace is kicking in.

[freeday]

wow how did i miss this thread. please guys don't run her off, i thought for a miniut i had a friend. on a side note, Varokhar, the picture of the violin was pretty funny. although i completely agree with her opening statement, i am viewing this distantly, in a nonpersonall manner. as though i went to the baseball fans website and started screaming baseball sucks, football rules. and the response would be the same as yours have been. there have been to many points brought up in this disscusion thusfar to really elaborate on all of them. One that caught my attention was the post about "freedom." Antlerman brought up a great point about "percieved truth." (wow, i am learning so much from you guys). i will apply it also to freedom.

 

one poster stated that he was free, because he left christianity. that is one point. istillbelieve posted she is free because she can be saved from sin (you get the point, i could have written it better). i believe that it is all a "percieved freedom." no one is free from death. that is something we can all agree on. but with christianity, we beleive that through Jesus we can be free from this also. Because the bible states he has risen. with this knowlegde, i can live my life in a way that i don't feel like my time is running out. which give me a "percieved freedom"

[nick5]

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