God, Jesus Or Man: Who Led You Away?

[trashy]

DEAR BOARD REGULARS.....

 

Why in hell are you wasting all this time and effort even responding to this person? It's the monthly "If only you knew Jesus like I knew Jesus" post. You know, the usual, where they claim to have read the site but really haven't. This person obviously read no ex-timonies. They really think their post will cause someone to break down into tears and repent because they really do not understand that most of us don't believe in any sort of God any more.

 

So why respond unless you are going to try to explain this to them? The point by point rebuttals are useless.....in my oh-so-humble opinion

[ped]

whats else is there to do when you're bored.

[Antlerman]

He didn't want any more animal sacrifices.

So he moved up to human sacrifice? I don't understand why a god needs blood sacrifice. In the context of primative tribal ideas of god worship it makes sense. Then I suppose it makes sense also that as the that ancient tribe became part of the civilized world, that animal sacrifice was part of their cultural identity. Then I suppose from there, the followers of a religious idealist, who like so many back then got eliminated by the Roman system, took that death of their leader and made a connection to this intergral part of their cultural identity and made it a blood sacrifice to Yahweh to give significance to their loss. Of course we know that the "predictions" made in the Gospel stories are after that fact stories supporting the developed theologies of his followers.

 

So I guess blood sacrifice still fits modern man's view of God today, but if you step back from it and really look at it, it really comes back to the tribal man's blood sacrifice to their tribal god. Doesn't it?

 

He knew we couldn't do it on our own, so He came to Earth in the life and body of Jesus Christ to help us . . . Sin and God do not mix . . . He is the bridge, the final sacrifice so that we could be with our God in Heaven. He doesn't force any of us to believe . . . He offers this as a gift to take or leave. I'm taking it - you've chosen to turn your back on this gift . . . it's a choice. I've made mine.

After the fact theology. I have not turened my back on this gift. I don't accept the reasons you state. It's backwards thinking. Limiting. Putting God into a Box. Worshiping that Box. Worshipping that idol. I reject your views.

[Checkmate]

DEAR BOARD REGULARS.....

 

Why in hell are you wasting all this time and effort even responding to this person? It's the monthly "If only you knew Jesus like I knew Jesus" post. You know, the usual, where they claim to have read the site but really haven't. This person obviously read no ex-timonies. They really think their post will cause someone to break down into tears and repent because they really do not understand that most of us don't believe in any sort of God any more.

 

So why respond unless you are going to try to explain this to them? The point by point rebuttals are useless.....in my oh-so-humble opinion

Why? Because it's fun. I don't get many opportunities these days to flame a retard, so I can't let a golden opportunity pass me by! The only "explanation" I seek to give idiotic trollers is the kick-in-the-pants kind.

 

Besides which, when someone drops a heaping pile of dog shit on the rug, you can't let it go unpunished. Someone might believe this bad behavior is tolerated or that it went unnoticed.

 

So, until the moderators begin deleting these nuisance threads, we're stuck with handling them the old fashion way. With VENOM and VITRIOL! Glory!

[JeffXL]

DEAR BOARD REGULARS.....

 

Why in hell are you wasting all this time and effort even responding to this person? It's the monthly "If only you knew Jesus like I knew Jesus" post.

So why respond unless you are going to try to explain this to them? The point by point rebuttals are useless.....in my oh-so-humble opinion

 

It's therapeutic, and I have a need to call Xians on their lies.

 

Excellent choice of deity, by the way!

[Ouroboros]

Why in hell are you wasting all this time and effort even responding to this person?

I agree with the other posts, it's just plain fun. It's like having a punch-bag and you can let excessive energy and built up frustration over life get out.

 

Besides, there are people (visitors) that come and read the board anonymously. Our answers and ideas does make them think. Even if the person that we're arguing with doesn't chance, the discussion we have is read by many, many, other people. And we've seen several new members that have been reading this site for some time, and recently deconverted. We might have more impact than we know...

[freeday]

 

You know what, both of you have convinced me. God exists, and I'm going to become an Christian Essene, and preach about the male and the femal god. Thank you very much.

 

glad i could be of service

 

you brought up a great point, i bet it was hard for some people to accept the idea that there is no God, or the biblical one.

 

what verses? i do know the part about the dragon, it is included in text that is not canonical.

 

Dragons are mentioned in the canon in the KJV:

 

Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

 

Job 30:29 I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.

 

Psalm 44:19 Though thou hast sore broken us in the place of dragons, and covered us with the shadow of death.

 

Psalm 74:13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.

 

Psalm 148:7 Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:

 

Isaiah 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in [their] pleasant palaces: and her time [is] near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

 

Isa 34:13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, [and] a court for owls.

 

Isaiah 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, [shall be] grass with reeds and rushes.

 

Isaiah 43:20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

 

Jeremiah 9:11 And I will make Jerusalem heaps, a den of dragons; and I will make the cities of Judah desolate, without an inhabitant.

 

Jeremiah 10:22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, a den of dragons.

 

Jeremiah 14:6 And the wild asses did stand in the high places, they snuffed up the wind like dragons; their eyes did fail, because [there was] no grass.

 

Jeremiah 49:33 And Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons, a desolation for ever: there shall no man abide there, nor son of man dwell in it.

 

Jer 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

 

Micah 1:8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.

 

Malachi 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

 

Not sure if it's in the other mistranslations.

 

wow, that is a bunch of dragons, i guess i had my christian blinders on when i read the old testament. will have to look those up, i read this post much later, the original dragon of discussion was the one in revalations. this one is a metaphor for satan.

 

 

I don't feel like bashing in the skulls of puppies this week.

 

now that is some anger.

[Ouroboros]

 

You know what, both of you have convinced me. God exists, and I'm going to become an Christian Essene, and preach about the male and the femal god. Thank you very much.

 

glad i could be of service

 

you brought up a great point, i bet it was hard for some people to accept the idea that there is no God, or the biblical one.

You do understand the differences between your denomination and Christian Essenes, right? I'm not converting to Essene or any religion, just so you know, it was a joke, but I think you got that. Just making sure.

[freeday]

 

You know what, both of you have convinced me. God exists, and I'm going to become an Christian Essene, and preach about the male and the femal god. Thank you very much.

 

glad i could be of service

 

you brought up a great point, i bet it was hard for some people to accept the idea that there is no God, or the biblical one.

You do understand the differences between your denomination and Christian Essenes, right? I'm not converting to Essene or any religion, just so you know, it was a joke, but I think you got that. Just making sure.

 

you have already proven you are superior to me in knowledge. i have no clue what christian essenes are. and yes i knew you were joking. as was I.

 

despite our belief differences, i really am a funny guy. i like to kid and joke. and as stated, i am going to lighten up on my posts, and try not to preach as much, but just throw out different ideas.

[Ouroboros]

you have already proven you are superior to me in knowledge. i have no clue what christian essenes are. and yes i knew you were joking. as was I.

Yes, I thought as much. Just made sure. Your comedian side is starting to come forward. That's good.

 

Just a little info for you:

 

The Essenes are an older religion than Christianity. It started as a Jewish cult hundreds of years before Jesus. It had some teachings that are compatible with Christianity, and some that is not. When Christianity started, the Essene Christian started to come too. John the Baptist is believed to have been an Essene Jew. The baptism was and is a part of their tradition and religion. I think some of the variations of it baptize everyone in every meeting. And they all wear white clothes. They're vegetarians. And much more. But their view of Jesus and God is a tad different than yours.

 

despite our belief differences, i really am a funny guy. i like to kid and joke. and as stated, i am going to lighten up on my posts, and try not to preach as much, but just throw out different ideas.

That is good. As I said before, we do have a few Christians on this board that has been with us for a while and are good people and participate on a good level in the discussions. But they are willing to understand and change opinions if so needed. And I am too. I have learned and changed some of my criticism too. We can all change and understand each other and meet halfway if we keep an open mind. Don't close it for other possibilities. And don't maintain that only your understanding is the only true understanding. There is no "absolute truth", or at least none that we can grasp or agree upon. Maybe the only absolute truth we have is "we do exist in some way".

 

---edit---

 

And your comment about "superior in knowledge", is only because now I'm willing to learn. When I was Christian, you and I would have been very alike, actually, I would probably have preached to you about your immoral and sinful ways, even if you were Christian. Because I was hard core fundamentalist. What I know right now, I have learned mostly in the last year or two. It took me 30 years of religious studies to get to a point that there's no answers in religion, but only more questions. And only a year to learn thousands of arguments against Christianity. It's scary. I had to read books and memorize them while Christian to defend my faith, but now, I only need to think to defend my apostacy. Learning becomes easy after that.

[Thurisaz]

So why respond unless you are going to try to explain this to them? The point by point rebuttals are useless.....in my oh-so-humble opinion

 

Old habits die hard...

[nick5]

.

[Ouroboros]

the original dragon of discussion was the one in revalations. this one is a metaphor for satan.

Metaphor? No, it means satan is a dragon (he can take any shape he want anyways can't he?)

Aha. He's a shape shifter like Odo.

[Kurari]

 

Rock on, Grinch, rock on.

[trashy]

I certainly understand the 'fun when I'm bored' angle, I've done it myself. I agree that it would be nice for these types of posts to just be deleted, or locked until the poster READS MORE of the boards though. I guess I could save up some standard responses and just cut and paste 'em as needed. That might work. hmmm.........

[chefranden]

The things I’ve read on this web site are a sad commentary on Christianity indeed. But the truth is what I’ve read about is people who have been disappointed by other people. Religion – what it is: It’s just man’s attempt at trying to figure out what God wants from them. Whether you’ve been a Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic, or other, you’ve been disappointed by someone human - not God and Jesus.

 

On the other hand I find things written here a happy commentary on Christianity.

 

Just because it is presently beyond your imagination that you could be disappointed by God, doesn't mean that someone else couldn't be disappointed by God. People that have believed and then discovered that God isn't really there certainly are disappointed, at least for a time.

 

I won't bother to beat you up for your naivete. I'm sure that the community has taken care of that by now.

 

So you think you’ve been let down by God and Jesus too? Well God is not our Genie in Heaven, He’s our Father in Heaven. He has given us free will to mess up our lives all on our own. Thing is . . . He’s still there for us . . . And Jesus died for us and is our Mediator – our Bridge to Heaven. They care, They love and They wait for all of us to turn to Them, to trust Them . . .

 

No, god lets you down because he just isn't there.

 

Why have you abandoned trying to find the truth? So you’ve got doubts. So do we all. No one is 100 percent sure of Heaven unless they’ve died and been there and come back – which some claim they have. Why do you abandon the only hope we have for eternity? Are you 100 percent sure it isn’t true? If you are only 1 percent sure that their might be a possibility of what the Bible promises then why wouldn’t you hold on to that 1 percent?

I haven't abandoned trying to find the truth. Trying to find the truth led me to discover the non-existence of God, as it will you if you have not abandoned trying to find the truth.

 

There is freedom with Christ . . . I live the way I choose with my eye on the cross. I’m not bound by my sins or by my faith . . . I have freedom to make mistakes, to learn, to try to do better. Christ paid for my mistakes – why would I want to be bound again?

Freedom from what? You are certainly bound by your imagined sins or else you wouldn't be concerned about sin or its supposed concequences. There would be no need for "an eye on the cross" if you were not bound.

 

You are a being that learns by mistakes. That is your nature. Why should you be punished for being what you are? Would you shoot your dog for having a tail?

 

...Is there any other “Way”? Well . . . not that I’m aware of . . .

 

Well there is your problem right there.

 

How sad that someone who’s lost their faith has decided to persuade others away from their relationship with Christ.

Why? What is sad about it?

 

Being a Christian is not a religion – it’s a relationship with God and Jesus. Do you really want to turn your back on that? On them? Man messes things up – Christians mess things up – over and over they do. Why blame God and Jesus for our mistakes – others mistakes?

I'm sure you've taken some shit over this non-sense already. I won't add to your burden.

 

Give up on being a Presbyterian. Give up on being a Baptist. Give up on being a Catholic, a Methodist & a Wesleyan. Learn to think for yourselves -- yes. But don’t give up on seeking for truth -- And I still believe we can find the truth in God’s Word – it’s your benefit to figure out what that Word is by searching and praying.

I haven't given up seeking the truth. I'm just further along the path than you are.

 

I still believe

I remember the time I said the very same, so don't be smug about it.

[Ouroboros]

Poor ISB, such an oxy-moron.

 

Anyway, don't think I said this in my previous response, but "Christian, not religion, but relationship", what bullcrap... again.

 

Religion = a belief system

 

Christianity = not a religion ... = not a belief system.

 

Aha! IStillBelieve really claiming that he DOES NOT believe! He's a liar then! Either Christianity is a belief system or it is not. Either it is a belief in God or it is not. And if it is not, then why the heck are you bothering us about the same thing?

 

Ex-Christian is not a religion either. So welcome to our club!

[chefranden]

You're right . . . you've chased me off . . . I'll not be back, because I'm not welcome here and your viciousness is not something I care to endure. But I've said my piece and you can take it or leave it, but I really pray that you'll reconsider your position on God and Jesus. They don't deserve your hatred. Being a Christian has become a bad word in our society . . . but I do believe it is the truth - not because I fear Hell and damnation, but because I have a relationship with God in Heaven. See ya! Wouldn't wanta be ya!

 

 

Viciousness? To this point the community has been quite nice to compared to some with your leval of naivete. I just bet you didn't do us the courtesy of reading before preaching, did you? If you had you would have known the kindness shown to you to this point.

 

No, Jesus is not evil...

 

I would guess that you haven't read the whole bible then -- just the bits you typed into the bulliten?

 

1 Samuel 15:1 Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

 

..So if you really want to dialogue with people here, shape up and get over the holier-than-thou shit. Start listening to us as if we're PEOPLE with real experiences worth listening to, not grounds for practicing your proselytizing...

 

 

Hallahluya Gwen! Well said!

[Lycorth]

No, Jesus is not evil...

 

I would guess that you haven't read the whole bible then -- just the bits you typed into the bulliten?

 

1 Samuel 15:1 Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

 

Excellent point, chef. And, according to Xian mythology, Jeezus™ and Yahooweh™ and the Holy Spurt™ are one and the same being. Hence, it was Jeezus™ who ordered those executions, those rapes, those wars of racist genocide that we read about in the Old Testament. Also, the animal sacrifices, permitted the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter, permitted Lot's two daughters to sleep with him and so on and so on and so bloody on.

 

Because the Farter, the Scum, and the Holy Spurt are all one and the same being, therefore, Jeezus™ ordered all these things, according to the Babble™. Evil? That doesn't begin to describe the Xian god. He is beyond all evil.

[duderonomy]

Fine.

Farickin' fine. Just ignore my sincere cry for help on this thread, you shallow self serving moronic fucker.

 

You came, you saw, you conquered, and you ignored.

 

Now I'm going to Hell because of you. I'm glad you are lightening up, you ignorant shit. It may do you good while you live your life, assured of Heaven, serving the One Who wouldn't leave that one lost sheep behind, as you have. I didn't have the chance to put my hand on Jesus and feel the blood leave His body, as you seemingly have. Jesus made a special plea to Thomas because he doubted, but I get no response at all from you? And I followed Jesus for much longer than Thomas did. I saw His miracles, I've read His words, I've studied. Some Ambassador for Christ you are, Oh Holy One!

 

At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that when Jesus spews the puke of Lukewarm Christianity out of His mouth at the end, I won't be alone. You'll be there too, spouting your lip service until the end, when we both fall into the eternal flames of Hell, to sink and burn, deeper and deeper forever and ever; the flames of Hell searing my already asthma ravaged lungs with His Holy flames as I struggle to breath. And oh God! The worms! I feel them crawling on me! They will never die? The fire will never burn out? But I, as an unwitting denizen of Hell for all time and eternity, will always wonder why you and Jesus both ignored me.

 

 

 

 

Other than that, I'm with trashy.

 

[white_raven23]

Fine.

Farickin' fine. Just ignore my sincere cry for help on this thread, you shallow self serving moronic fucker.

 

You came, you saw, you conquered, and you ignored.

 

Just goes to show what they really come here for. They don't come to "help" or to "save" as they claim.

 

They are fascinated by us. Their brainraping has taught them that we are super evil. Only slightly less evil than their satan.

 

They are here to rubberneck. We are like a carny sideshow. Freaks and perversions viewed from the "safety" of their christian cage.

 

They came to see our fangs.

 

They want to gawk and gasp. Run tell their little christian friends so they can come enjoy the show too.

 

And some sick, sick part of them are watching for the blood to be shed. They want to see one of their own dragged out of the christian cage and turned into a ravening beastial atheist before their very eyes.....just so long as it's not 'them' of course.

[duderonomy]

White Raven,

 

[RHEMtron]

what verses? i do know the part about the dragon, it is included in text that is not canonical.

The dragon is listed several time in the canonical bible. Mostly in the Old Testament and in Revelations. We have a discussion about it in this thread: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...56entry188956

 

yeah! that's makes a whole lotta more sense!!!! you got serpent and dragon in the same verse. interestingly enough, i put "dragon" in the word search in skepticsannotatedbible and it came up in Neh 2:13, Psa 91:13, Isa 51:9, Jer 51:34, Eze 29:3.

 

i disregard this as truth. in 300 Ad the council drew up "not an inspred list of books, but a list of inspired books." i have read most of them and i found them to be inconsistent in my beliefs. got to get off for the day, gonna go get some food.

You cant disregard something just because it's inconsistent with your beliefs. If a racist said people who arent racist are wrong because it's inconsistent with their belief, does that it true, or him a better person?

 

The only reason why these scriptures were voted out was because they said it was inconsistent with their beliefs. That right away violates what was commanded by God:

 

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

And we must not forget what was said in the New Testament about ALL SCRIPTURE that was written.

 

ALL SCRIPTURE [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

[narcissist]

When I read "The Jesus I Never Knew", I remember thinking, 'Jeez Phillip you're only half way there. Your punches are really light-weight. Tell them the whole truth'. But then I remembered who Yancey's target market was, namely, 'milk-fed' christians who think Yancey's writings are "on the edge" and "challenging", and to tell them the whole truth about Jesus would simply alienate them, and cause Yancey to join all the other authors who have had their writings put on the Christian "do not read" list, and then he'd have to find another way to make a living.

[-Demona-]

The things I’ve read on this web site are a sad commentary on Christianity indeed. But the truth is what I’ve read about is people who have been disappointed by other people.

Then you haven't read deeply enough. Or you just lazily decided to skim over the intellectual reasons for leaving Christianity and zeroed in on the emtional parts. Lazy.

 

So you think you’ve been let down by God and Jesus too? Well God is not our Genie in Heaven, He’s our Father in Heaven. He has given us free will to mess up our lives all on our own. Thing is . . . He’s still there for us . . .

If he cares so doan much, then why does he let bad stuff happen to people while standing by and doing nothing? In a human context, that would make God a bad father.

 

Why have you abandoned trying to find the truth? So you’ve got doubts. So do we all. No one is 100 percent sure of Heaven unless they’ve died and been there and come back – which some claim they have.

Why are you assuming I've stopped searching for the Truth? I haven't. I don't know what the Truth is... but I know Christianity ain't it.

 

Why do you abandon the only hope we have for eternity? Are you 100 percent sure it isn’t true? If you are only 1 percent sure that their might be a possibility of what the Bible promises then why wouldn’t you hold on to that 1 percent?

There's nothing there to abandon. Once I stopped believing in Hell, the need to be "saved" became unneccesary.

 

]You’re either a slave to sin or a slave to Jesus.

Why is everything always so black and white with you people?

 

Without Jesus I have the “freedom” to live carelessly until I die.

Who says I live carelessly? I've still got bills to pay, a job to go to, a family to support and medical problems to attend to. And those are things I manage without Jesus.

 

I care about people and their happiness . . .

Are you implying I don't?

 

How sad that someone who’s lost their faith has decided to persuade others away from their relationship with Christ.

I haven't "persuaded" anyone. Nor was I "persuaded" by anyone. I did the reasearch into religions myself, and found Christianity wanting. In other words, I used the braincells I was born with and stopped thinking like a sheep. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

Being a Christian is not a religion – it’s a relationship with God and Jesus.

Bullshit. Unless the Trinity come over to your house for tea, it's religion. Not a relationship.

 

Learn to think for yourselves -- yes. But don’t give up on seeking for truth -- And I still believe we can find the truth in God’s Word – it’s your benefit to figure out what that Word is by searching and praying.

There is no truth in the Word, as far as I can see it. Just because I've given up on Christianity doesn't mean I've given up on the alternatives. I haven't stopped searching for the Truth. I just realized it can't be found in the Bible.

 

You Christians do not own a monopoly on the Truth, and that's why we left. We're not hurting you by merely existing and speaking amongst ourselves. You came here to poke at us with your Holy Stick of Biblical Truth ™. We didn't ask you to be here.

 

We're people dealing with issues, people who have lives and familes. People who don't fit into your "evil heathen" concept. Deal with it.