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Guest Istillbelieve

God, Jesus Or Man: Who Led You Away?

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so perhaps 'beating you over the head with your own Bible' wouldn't apply to you?

Ah I get it ! I can be very stupid at times but this is one occasion that am glad to be :)

 

 

Anyway, other than a few neurosis and sundry phycological problems...you know...the usual stuff, I assure you that I am fine.

You make my day. When I think of somebody in pain because of religion it reminds of times past and I kind of anguish over what they are going through, if this makes sense.

 

 

Sometimes I take a different way of trying to make the same points that my more learned and articulate fellow extian posters do. It still sucks when one gets no response.

I understand better now, sometimes it takes a jolt to move our perspective and by bypass all the usual filtering/bias we apply to the information we sense.

 

So what to do? There are a lot of extimonies here, but I've hardly scratched the surface of them myself. Maybe pinning a thread like this, or one specifically made for the purpose, somewhere would be a good idea? When the fundies come a callin' with the same ol same ol, they could be gently directed to read that thread before they post more? You know, like a FAQ type of thing. Maybe a FUA (Frequently Used Arguments), at least for the Lion's Den?

Yes I take your point. I suppose there will always be an element of the "fly by" evangelist, i.e enter the enemies air space, drop a few bombs (verses) then back home without a second thought. From what I have seen there is also the genuine lovers who really do believe and are not seeking to rack up merit points and they are the type who would follow your advice.

 

p.s I noticed your remarks about "Something" in an early post and I agree with you that its a very beautifull love song. "Abbey Road" is my favourite Beatles album and music is a great way of probing the depths of the spirit, or whatever people want to call it. Sometimes also the words of "Let it Be" gently enter my mind when things are getting rough. Actually as this is typed I now see a connection between the two songs I never saw before and its very beautifull - thanks duderonomy

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GM,

 

Talk about dropping 'verse bombs'! Now I'm confused. Do you mean:

 

A) "When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comforts me; speaking words of wisdom, 'Let it Be'"

 

B.) "Something in the way she moves me...I don't want to leave her now, you know I believe and how"

 

or

 

 

1) "In my hour of darkness, she is standing right in front of me, speaking words of wisdom, 'Let it be'"

 

2) "Something in the way she moves, attracts me like no other lover"?

 

:scratch:

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GM,

 

Talk about dropping 'verse bombs'! Now I'm confused. Do you mean:

 

A) "When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comforts me; speaking words of wisdom, 'Let it Be'"

 

B.) "Something in the way she moves me...I don't want to leave her now, you know I believe and how"

 

or

 

 

1) "In my hour of darkness, she is standing right in front of me, speaking words of wisdom, 'Let it be'"

 

2) "Something in the way she moves, attracts me like no other lover"?

 

:scratch:

 

I don't really analyse too much art that I like. An extreme example, only to illustrate a point, would be a chemical analysis of the pigments used on a canvas revealing definite truths about the composition of the materials but in doing so missing the greater truth the artist tries to convey in the painting viewed at a different level - that's maybe why I didn't drop any verses from the songs :)

 

If you wanted to understand my perspective better then maybe another song/lyrics would help. Its called "Hymn to Her" by Chrisie Hynd and the Pretenders.

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GM,

 

Truth can stand a closer look.

 

What you are saying is you are afraid to look into what you believe in and or lean on.

 

The bigger picture will wait for you to ignore or pay attention to it's smaller dimensions.

 

Honest!

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GM,

 

Truth can stand a closer look.

 

What you are saying is you are afraid to look into what you believe in and or lean on.

 

The bigger picture will wait for you to ignore or pay attention to it's smaller dimensions.

 

Honest!

 

 

I think it's more like that at a certain level, things of the spirit - whatever its called - forensic analysis takes away rather than adds. Sure there is for me a kind art that works on that level and is open to critical analysis which is fruitful in terms of what is conveyed - the artist would have it so. I think this tends towards the more literal forms of complex expression, but its not the kind of art that makes the biggest impression on me.

 

If I could articulate why certain songs or poems strike me so then I would have written them myself, but I can't. Songs and poetry that I really love in some ways speak what I cannot speak myself.

 

Edit: If I have any fears as you suggest then maybe its to avoid :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradgrind

http://www.doceo.co.uk/background/gradgrind.htm

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Guest Rosso Dolore

I do care about the people here - as much as I would care for any person that I don't know who is drowning in a river and won't grab hold of the log that I'm holding out for them.

 

You see it wrong. You don´t see that the river is gentle and I´m floating and enjoying. You think that I can´t swim and splash that log near my face so I almost get water in my lungs. Piss off and let me be. Learn how to respect people and don´t assume things. You are in most cases wrong.

 

Oh you mean Spock isn't real. People here can't even take a joke. But then you're right this isn't a matter to joke about - so I'm sorry for trying to lighten things up a bit.

 

You throw those "sorry this and that" - phrases like a real hypocrites do. Doesn't make me anything than annoyed. ´Cause you really aren´t sorry.

 

I Still Believe

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Hold Me, GM; I'm shaking like a leaf,

You have been Queen of my Glory,

may I be your Prince of Peace?*

 

Yeah, don't look too close. It'll ruin everything.

 

* from the song "Hold me Jesus".

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Hold Me, GM; I'm shaking like a leaf,

You have been Queen of my Glory,

may I be your Prince of Peace?*

 

Yeah, don't look too close. It'll ruin everything.

 

* from the song "Hold me Jesus".

 

 

What can I say? The last post you made in which you made allusions to Jesus and problems you were experiencing you later suggested was done, in effect, in the spirit of sarcasm. So am I to assume you are trying to be funny again? right ?

 

http://www.steviesmith.org/notwaving.html

 

http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html

 

http://lyrics.rare-lyrics.com/J/John-Lennon/Mind-Games.html

 

We don't seem to talk the same language, so we will just leave it at that? o.k?

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GM,

 

Hi again.

Yes, I was trying to be funny/sarcastic, with 'trying' being the operative word (in retrospect).

Actually that song, "Hold Me Jesus" is one I heard for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. Although as an exian, I wouldn't sing it like that, it was a song where I really understood the sentiment. I"m not sure why, but I just like it. Maybe that's what you were trying to get me to understand? Anyway, thanks for the links, I'll be working my way through them.

 

Ah, you're right, let's leave it! I just wanted you to know that my sarcasm wasn't aimed at you, and I meant no offence!

 

Duder...

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I also left Christianity for intellectual reasons.

 

I studied Religion (Biblical studies) in a liberal Christian college and I learned things like 1. The Bible was compiled by a commitee of powerful bishops backed by the Roman emperor Constantine. 2. That the story of a God who died and rose from the dead was a common religious cult belief of the Greco-Roman era. 3. That most doctrines of fundamentalist Christians are based on a literal reading of the KJV, which is based on inferior manuscripts. Even still, the Bible is often mistranslated to fabricate theolgoical points. 4. Christian historians silences the violent stories of the Christian past. 5. That the Gospels were written at the earliest 30 years after Jesus' death and they tell fabricated stories based on Old Testament "prophecies." 6. "Monotheism" was actually first practiced in Egypt under the Pharoah Akenaton, before the "Israelites." 7. "YHWH" was originally a tribal war deity and not a universal god.

 

I simply achieved a perspective that was historical.

 

Eventually I figured out that we don't live in some spiritual cosmos were demons roam and miracles happen, and all of those religious feelings I used to feel just died and went silent.

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