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  2. Romans 8:19-23 New International Version (NIV) 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. Creation was subject to frustration (leading to bondage to decay) not by it's own choice, but by God's choice. God is the creator, but we are the created. So it was always God's will and choice to impose death and disease upon us. It was never our choice. Therefore, we do not impose death and disease upon ourselves because of our sin. God cursed us all and we live under his curse, suffering according to his choice - not ours. Thanks, BAA.
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  4. #Metoo

    Just found a clip from George Carlin who in between jokes lays out some salient points that's being discussed in this thread. Imo George was a master at highlighting issues and pointing out bullshit using his comedy routines. In the spirit of what some have said, warning you might not like what he says!
  5. This is false. A reading of the book of Genesis clearly shows this. According to scripture the miseries of disease, deformity and death currently being suffered, not only by the North Koreans, but also by the entire human race, were the result of ONLY Adam and Eve's actions. Not the actions of any succeeding generations of humans. So what is described is not the self-imposition of the consequences of sin by each succeeding generation upon themselves. It's the imposition of the consequences of sin upon every generation by God. The consequences of the actions of just two people being imposed by God upon everyone else. Thousands of generations, then unborn, have been made to suffer the consequences of actions they had no part in. God's cursed not just Adam and Eve, but their all their unborn children and descendants. It's another falsehood to say that every generation imposes disease, deformity and death upon itself by not believing in the God of the Bible. Scripture clearly shows that even if everyone in the world were born-again of the holy spirit and lived as Christians, God would still not lift the curse that he set in place in the garden of Eden. The lifting of God's curse doesn't take place until the end of days, when the saved are permitted to eat from the Tree of Life. Revelation 22 : 1 - 5. Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. So, sin and it's consequences (God's curse - causing human disease, deformity and death) will not be lifted from us by everyone becoming Christians and believing in the Bible. That is not scriptural. That is false. That is heresy. Thanks, BAA.
  6. #Metoo

    "Triggered"..... have recently grown to dislike the word "triggered" as I find it dismissive and a lazy way to communicate thoughts and feelings but maybe I'm now triggered by "triggered." Is that possible? ...Some of these posts will be hurtful to those who have experienced sexual abuse, me included. I try and understand that everyone works through horrible experiences differently and need a place to vent. I also dislike the #metoo as the intention (I think) was to allow people to share their stories and hopefully gain strength in numbers while raising awareness of how many people have been hurt and abused. But now it's become all "bandwagonie" and twisted....yuck! Bandwagonie - Lazy made up word used to communicate.......
  7. A Family in Denial

    Hi LostinParis I'm not a psychologist but I think part of the reason is a mental comfort thing. We simply ignore information that does not confirm to our view of the world. If you know you are in denial I'd say no, long term something is going to give. If you know you are in denial you will be in a state of cognitive dissonance and your mental state will want to correct that. However a lot of denial is subconscious - you can point out the facts of evolution till you are blue in the face and some people will just say they are lies, and there is no evidence etc and they don't seem to suffer from years of this denial. Take Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort and Ken Ham as our case studies here. I felt much like you when I left, especially as I always did question things, but I suppressed them. No no, the pastor must be right, its the devil playing with your mind, and you just need to pray to god and believe was my reasoning at the time. Now I'm like that is total B/S!
  8. hi LogicalFallacy - thanks for your reply which I found so refreshing because you seem to be at peace and aren't having mental battles through trying to follow the bible and going to church - which helps me believe that I can move forward and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think that reading the bible as if it were true definitely made my mental health worse. I'm glad that you're happier and are free to be true to be the real you. Thank you for wishing me well on my journey to better health.
  9. Hi Marg, thank you very much for your kind reply and welcome. I agree 'the bible is a book that was put together by man', which seems to be the crux of the matter - and reading it with a 'child-like' faith as if it were all true can be so damaging because it has so many contradictions and judgments, from a God who is meant to be a perfect Father. So if you have any issues from childhood, which most people probably do, you can end up trying to please the biblical father and agree with some horrendous teachings just because they found their way into that book , which everybody around you says is true! There have been quite a few things I've found difficult - especially the assumption that if you do not agree that Jesus is the Christ anymore, then you have an 'antichrist spirit', your conscience can become seared, and of course not to mention its a ticket to hell - scary stuff!! Then there is also the assumption that anything that might lead you away from faith is actually Satan deceiving and tempting you, or people who are deceived by him. I'm still trying to hold onto the fact that there is a good energy or God out there - I mean really good, not just because someone writes in a book that you have to believe in a certain way. I never really got that the bible God was supposed to love unconditionally, because it seemed to me that there were all sorts of conditions attached to believing with dire consequences if you didn't. And yet, He created us - presumably with the knowledge that people would fail, so why would He do that? I'm envisioning issues for some time as I try to work this out practically because that's what happened before. I'm not very good at hiding my feelings and thoughts when I'm with my friends, but I can see that it may be necessary to cover up what I'm truly thinking for a period of time, to be protective of my self. Anyway, I've rambled a bit ...... I didn't sleep well so again, I'm still tired ......still, your suggestions of having a dance, or going for walk etc do sounding inviting for today .....
  10. Lately I have been thinking a lot about the concept of denial. Now that I have left christianity if feels like I have woken from a bizarre dream. I can't believe the level of denial I was in. Why did I supress reality? Why did I wait so long to leave christianity? Perhaps it was the inertia that comes with staying at home with three small children. I had no money of my own. I felt sure my marriage would end if I explored my doubts about christianity. I remember trying to talk myself into believing. I desperately wanted it to be true. I guess we all have our reasons to stay Christian. My husband is still a christian, choosing to ignore evidence and deny evolution. He is also in denial about his father sexually abusing his sisters when they were young. In fact his entire family is in denial. For years I played along with the charade of his perfect, happy family to the outside world. Because as a christian I had been programmed with a forgiveness mindset. Because god forgives me, a sinner. So why do we choose to stay asleep? Can denial be sustained long-term? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
  11. hi @sdelsolray - thanks very much for your reply which was helpful. I seem to keep going back to the issue of getting the right help for better mental health. I have talked with secular mental health professionals over time, but unfortunately at the moment can't afford private therapy which I came to the conclusion was the best way forward.
  12. Thanks so much for your reply @Lost - reading it made me realise see even more clearly that I've clung to religion for a 'person' to provide hope of getting out of a situation, to be strengthened inside, someone who sees the best in people (although I had trouble over that one when I read what the bible actually said!), in short an 'ideal parent/ husband/ friend/ role model etc. Thank you for your kind words. In regard to mental strength given by nature - I think I was born healthy, but things happened. I've been searching for the right help for a long time, and will still carry on looking .....
  13. #Metoo

    Indeed. So much THIS. For a perfect example, look at how contemporary feminism calls it "sexual harrassment" and even "rape" if a men says "hello" to a woman passing by on the sidewalk. Look at how they even talk about literal "stare rape". Rape and sexual harrassment (say, groping a woman without any permission or invitation, especially if the asshole won't back down and instead forces himself on her) are horrible, no sane person with a sense of ethics and empathy (regardless of gender) denies that. But when you call everything "rape" and "harrassment" the very terms lose all meaning and even victims of genuine crimes will eventually just receive mockery when they tell anyone. This is what modern day "victim culture" (the term doesn't really feel right for me but it is descriptive) does to us all.
  14. Guess who's dead now...

    Currently in a coma due to organ failure, so probably not long. Already was battling dementia.
  15. Guess who's dead now...

    Is he sick?
  16. Well, if we assume a moral standard, the Bible, and look at the consequences of sin, yeah, it seems demonstrable.... And given we are so far removed from the original....there is no telling where society plots vs. the assumed standard/Standard.
  17. Is what better now Fweetwat? At least LF is still cool.
  18. Too Many Doubts, Too Many Questions

    Welcome TMD! Great read! thank you for sharing. You are among like-minded people here. But you sound like you are doing very well. Looking forward to hearing more from you!
  19. "Why would a good God let some people be born into existences that are truly nothing but misery?" You assume too much. You assume this God exists in the first place. Your questions contain this premise, front and center. Believers' apologetics also assume it. Try analyzing reality without that assumption.
  20. Pray tell me how people in NK self imposed this on themselves? There are some people, sincerely believing in God, who live in hell on earth. What was their sin?
  21. It depends on your definition of "good" and "god". Many Christians says that whatever God does and allows is good, thereby allowing all suffering it be good. However this is dishonest in my opinion. Good is generally accepted that which increases our happiness or eases our suffering. Sam Harris in a Debate with W L Craig gave a very good rebuttal to the idea God is good - excerpts below but you can read the whole thing here, or watch the video below: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Sam-Harris-The-Obscenity-of-Faith "Any god who would allow children by the millions to suffer and die in this way and their parents to grieve in this way, either can do nothing to help them or doesn't care to. He is therefore either impotent or evil." - Sam Harris Whenever anyone says God is good - he helped me buy a new house, I say that's great... perhaps his time would be better spent saving starving children in Africa? What's more, these people, born in circumstances they cannot escape from, are destined for hell because they have never heard of or accepted Jesus as their savior. Some Christians get around this by saying that God would never judge someone who has never heard. Again this is not supported by the bible, especially as the bible says that the truth of god has been put in all human hearts by God.
  22. Guess who's dead now...

    Save this space for David Cassidy.
  23. Hi Rachel Yes my mental health has improved, but to be honest I was not in a bad mental health state anyway. I have mainly suffered from anxiety which is not at all tied to religion, though religion made it worse. Getting out of something you've spent so long in is always probably going to be bumpy. The measure of a true friend is when you can bitterly disagree with them on subjects, but still love and respect each other. Everyone else is just veneer. Yes, I am far far happier now than anytime in my life I would say... or perhaps more content... I'm not constantly trying to figure out if I've committed a sin and therefore going to hell this week. I don't have mental battles where I find myself not believing about something in the bible, but being told by the church that if I don't believe with all my heart I'm going to hell. Not worrying about those things automatically makes you happier. Hell no! I could not remain a Christian and say that I was honest with myself and with the world. I got to the point where I just didn't believe, and staying for the sake of relationships for me was not worth having to lie for the rest of my life. Now I am who I am. Anyone I meet actually gets to see the real me, and the real me is a friendly, somewhat shy, atheist guy who loves talking about topics most people don't even bother giving serious thought in their lives. I hope your mental health gets better, and that you find some help or solace here on Ex-C. Regards LF
  24. Visions?

    I am wondering if there have been any scientific studies on religious visions. Some people's testimonies of weird shit they experienced when they believed can be quite interesting so I don't consider hearing non-scientific accounts a total waste of time.
  25. George Carlin Deciphers Hidden Political Language

    Good ol George Carlin. RIP
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