A forum to discuss how ex-Christians have dealt with family members, replaced the church as a place of community, reactions of your family, friends, church, acquaintances upon learning of the de-conversion, or anything else relevant to the Ex-Christian Life.
The bulk of science does not support belief in a deity, or does it? This is an open discussion area to hone your skills at supporting and understanding the various positions. Feel free to post any links of value in this important topic.
This section is confined to serious and formal debate. New topics will not appear in this section until approved by a moderator. For best results, contact a moderator before attempting to post a new topic in this section.
T. Sowell: "If you want to spend your life nursing grievances, you will never run out of grievances to nurse, regardless of what color your skin is. If some people cannot be rotten to you because of your race, they will find some other reason to be rotten to you."
You were making the assumption that the aircraft would fail. The only way you would know this is through experience. We have no reason to assume our "flight" will fail. God the airplane engineer would, but not the passengers. All I hear from all of you is a passenger's standpoint. "I'd rather walk than choose flying on Hell Airlines"....yet you still subscribe to jet engines with wings....
Another expert pontificating far outside his area of expertise, much like a Deepak Chopra, Jenny McCarthy or Gwyneth Paltrow. Such opinions should carry no more weight than the musings of your bartender or cab driver. The Internet has a downside in that those we see on a screen seem somehow authoritative, even though sometimes it's just some guy vlogging from his mom's basement.
I thought jesus was a gift?
"For god so loved the world that he gave his only only son that whosoever subscribeth to him, for a low monthly fee (terms and conditions subject to change without notice), shall not perish but have everlasting life as long as they remain a subscriber in good standing."
Aw, shit. I guess I never really took a close look at that verse.
God's rules: choose me or burn forever. Those are some pretty fucked up rules. But hey, it's all okay, because God's God and we don't have the right to question him, right? I call BS. God is a tyrant. A cosmic dictator. We would judge anyone else who acted like this. Why not God?
Also, he hasn't given us any answer. Assuming that Christianity is true, the only thing he's given us is a (problematic) ancient book in a sea of ancient books and religions all claiming to have the truth. This particular one doesn't stand out in any way. Which book/answer/love you subscribe to largely depends on where you're born and how you're raised.
We're definitely not on the same page with this airplane analogy.
The premise of xianity is we're on a fallen earth. It's broken. No matter what anyone does it will, at some point, fail. That's the whole point of the end times and all the stuff in the Revelation. It's a plane that will crash with anyone and everyone who is on-board. No amount of effort from the passengers can alter this fact.
There is no experience needed to know this. It is a given in this case. That's the analogy.
You get used to it. My mind brought up Christian songs for a long time, still does occasionally, because I consumed that for 30 years. Religion is usually based on fears, and those have deep roots that take time to overcome. After my deconversion, my mind was working through stuff and gave me a very creative dream where I had to decide if I was going to be a Christian or embrace my new way. I understood what was happening and chose the new way. This is from a post here about 5 years ago:
"I dreamed that I was in the house where I grew up, speaking with my brother in the kitchen. The light was off, but moonlight was streaming through the window. I looked out at the moon, and it was impossibly detailed, like a line-drawing, and rather large. I said "I've got to go outside and see this!" I stepped onto the back porch and clicked the light switch. It didn't go on. This has historically been the sign in my dreams that "THE DEVIL" was there. I knew I had been suckered into coming out there. This time he was a little boy, giggling in the dark. He began to run past me and I grabbed him, threw him to the floor, and put my foot on his chest. I could feel my body begin to freeze up like it always did in these nightmares, and I began to choke out the name of Jesus. But then I realized what I was doing and said quite clearly, "No, I don't need Jesus to do this. I need to do this." He giggled, got up and said "Careful, you're about to sin!" and ran out the back door. I said, "There is no sin." I watched him running around gleefully, and I asked him "You're me, aren't you?" He didn't answer, but in the moonlight he walked up to a bare rose bush full of thorns, faced me, and embraced it grinning. Then he ran past me, and I grabbed him and pushed him into it. He yelped. I said, "It hurts you if I do it to you, but not if you do it." And that was the end of the dream.
This was an important dream from a few aspects. I had to finally face my fear of the devil, whom I no longer believe exists. I met my shadow self, who is capable of drawing me out and teaching me things about myself that I had no concept of. There is more to the imagery than I have fully understood, and I hope to meet him/me again. I know I don't need to hurt him anymore. He has a lot to teach me."