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  • Our picks

    • "No bibles, no preaching, no god-bothering!" These were the conditions B put upon his two brothers, who had recently converted to Pentecostal Christianity, if he were to visit them while on holidays. What happened next would change the course of his life and still continues to impact who he is today.
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    • I owe pittsburghjoe, along with every member participating in this discussion 
      for helping free me from my former Christian belief.
       
      I'm forced to admit to myself and anyone reading here that as a Christian I had never truly considered the extent to which all Christian belief rests upon the silly-assed irrational concept of "original sin".
       
      There was no one in the Garden with an iPhone recording video, people.
      There was no one there with a quill and scroll of parchment writing it all down.
      There were no eye-witnesses at all.
       
      It's a MYTH.  A silly, ancient myth.
       
        • Like
    • My attached short essay on Precession as the Framework of Christian Origins was published last year as an Appendix in The Christ Conspiracy Second Edition by DM Murdock (Acharya S).  (4000 words)
      I helped Dr Robert M. Price to edit this new second edition. This book was quite controversial when it first came out in 1999, with its uncompromising presentation of the hypothesis that the myth of Jesus Christ arose as a personification of the Sun.  I agree with this argument, and consider that it presents a complex and coherent perspective on religion.
      Before her death in 2015, Acharya began editing her planned CC second edition, aiming to remove some of the more contentious material and present her main arguments more clearly. I had worked closely with her on some areas of her analysis of astrotheology, so was pleased to be able to help with this work, and enjoyed going through the book in detail to edit it. 
      My own long term theological interest is in this topic of Precession as the Framework of Christian Origins, which I consider provides a compelling scientific explanation of many of the perspectives that Acharya presents. This idea helps to explain the role of conspiracy in Christianity, firstly among the secret Gnostic mystic philosophers who first developed the Christ Myth as allegory, and secondly in the orthodox church, as they systematically rewrote Christian origins to exclude its founding natural cosmology and pretend that the events described in the Gospels actually happened.  
      As a hypothesis, the precession hypothesis raises such controversial material that it is difficult to discuss. The essential argument is that Jesus Christ was deliberately invented as avatar of the zodiac ages of Pisces and Aquarius. I think this idea should be of interest to ex-Christians, as a way to help excavate the abiding truths that are hidden beneath the supernatural rubble of Christendom. 
      I would welcome any questions or critique or conversation about the ideas in this paper.
      Thanks
      Precession as the Framework of Christian Origins by Robert Tulip, published in The Christ Conspiracy Second Edition.pdf
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      • 101 replies
    • Ecclesiastes 12:13 and the Meaning of Life
      Ecclesiastes 12:13 (ESV): The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
       
      To which I ask: That's all you've got?
       
      I've never set goals. Really! Oh, I did finish college (after changing my major 3 times), but I've always lived my life a day at a time. And I've always found my "meaning" in my responsibilities. I have work, I have family, and I have things to do. What more meaning do I need? Well, I know what's going on in the world and have discussions about it, and contribute to causes and organizations that I feel are important, and I vote -- so there's more meaning. I'm thinking more and more about how I'm going to be able to retire and I should have made that more important many years ago, but even now I wouldn't call it a goal. I need to get as much put away as I can, but I don't really think I want to retire. I just know that I'll have to some day.
       
      The meaning in life just comes along. I have grandchildren and I love to spend time with them. I love having grown-up conversations with my kids and their spouses. I enjoy spending the evenings with my wife, even when it's boring, because we're together. I enjoy listening to music, but not as much as I used to. I listen to podcasts in the car while commuting every day. All of that stuff is just there, but it has meaning.
       
      Largely, this day-to-day attitude that I was either born with or picked up somehow has meant that I never thought about Heaven or Hell, and certainly never imagined what they would be like. Apologists sometimes say that without eternity, life is absurd. Maybe that's so, but eternity is absurd, also. How can sitting in front of a throne worshiping a deity forever and ever be meaningful?
       
      "Meaningful" is making things work, getting things done. Meaningful is enjoying a good meal. Meaningful is enjoying a fast-food meal. Meaningful is laughing with your friends and family. Meaningful is laughing at a TV show or a movie. Meaningful is experiencing anything -- a relationship or a story or anything -- that brings out emotion, happy or sad or just deep. Meaning and purpose are found in the everyday tasks and entertainment and relationships we experience. No ultimate goal is required. In fact, believing that there's an ultimate goal takes away from the true meaning, which is found in the everyday.
       
      And after life is over? Meaning is for the living who remember you.
       
      Maybe you're young and don't have some of those things, but you still have a 24-hour day that's full of meaning. Over time, the meaning changes, but it's there already, every waking hour.
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    • What follows is just a trace of the essence of a thought I've been having lately,  so forgive me if it's not terribly coherent. Feel free to critique,  disagree with,  or otherwise challenge what follows. I'm just trying to approach making sense. I want my thinking to be stretched on this, so please challenge me.
       
      I have often heard it asserted that something cannot come from nothing. I've also heard it asked (usually in a tone of voice which suggests a certain profundity) that something cannot come from nothing.  Now,  there are various possible responses to this,  and I've engaged in a number of arguments here and elsewhere regarding this assertion. In general,  I think a great deal turns on what one means by "nothing". But this is by the by, at least for now.
       
      Recently, on these boards, I have asserted that I've heard it said that something can emerge spontaneously from the quantum vacuum. But also, that I've heard it said that the quantum vacuum is not nothing. And further, that arguments have been made to the effect that no other kind of "nothing" is possible. Well, this is all very nice, but it does still leave the layperson pondering the original question: why is there something rather than nothing? And how does something come about from nothing?
       
      These are questions that deserves to be taken seriously. But they are also questions which demand that we take them seriously. That is to say, the subject and the content of the questions matter a great deal,  but so do the presuppositions of the questions. So if we are to move forward here, it seems to me that we must proceed with caution.
       
      To put it very bluntly, the question "why is there something rather than nothing" seems to me to presuppose that there ought to be nothing, but nevertheless, there is something. I think that if we think about this for more than a minute,  we will all realize that this is nonsensical.
       
      When have we ever experienced nothing?
       
      Could we ever experience nothing?
       
      It seems to me that the very nature of experience is that it is of something. But this is to say, we have no reason, and can have no reason to think that nothing is even a possibility. 
       
      To put this another way, try considering the original question in reverse. Why is there something rather than nothing, and how did it come about? No. Why might there be nothing rather than something, and does that even make sense?
       
      I think you'll find that it doesn't make sense. Or so it seems to me right now.
        • Like
      • 100 replies
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    • FULL DISCLOSURE   When I began posting in this thread on March 27 I was of the opinion that god had tricked Adam and Eve in Eden.   But my opinion has changed in the light of further thought about events in Eden.   On Thursday April 8 I signalled my change of mind by declaring a new understanding of the text of Genesis.   Posted Thursday at 10:09 PM I would like to personally thank Edgarcito for using the word 'Law' in the title of this, his thread. By doing this he sent me in a new direction of inquiry into the storyline of Eden. My new understanding is the result of looking at the events in Eden from a legal viewpoint. As a result of doing this I now see and understand more about the following. 1.  Why the serpent elected to speak to Eve and not Adam. 2.  What the serpent knew about Adam and Eve before speaking to her. 3.  That the serpent was able to trick them into disobeying god without causing them to act in a knowingly evil way. I'm happy to share this understanding with everyone, here in this thread. Thank you. Walter.   So, in my exchanges with Edgarcito today I state that Adam and Eve were tricked by the serpent and not by god.   To bring my earlier posts into line with my new understanding I have gone back and edited them.   I have removed the words 'trick' or 'tricked' when talking about anything to do with god in Eden.   Scripture clearly say that the serpent was the trickster and I agree with this.   Thank you.   Walter.            
    • The overall disingenuousness of biblegod in the Adam and Eve story has been brought out time and time again.    I suppose biblegod didnt trick Abraham/Isaac either?   Biblegod showed his lovvvvvvvvve to humanity by drowning most of them.    Edgar wants to spend eternity with this entity for some reason.
    • Edgarcito,       Then it's ok for god's children, Adam and Eve, to be punished to the full extent of the law?       But it's not ok your own children to be punished to the full extent of the law?       Even though, in both cases, both sets of children were tricked into breaking the law?       Really?
    • You still haven't grasped what scripture says and what I have been saying, Edgarcito.   2 Corinthians 11 : 3   But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.   It was the serpent who tricked Eve and Adam, not god.   In the context of today's dialogue I never said or implied that god tricked them.   The serpent tricked them (Adam and Eve) and god punished them (Adam and Eve) to the full extent of the one law that he (god) bound Adam and Eve with.   This law.   16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;  17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”   So god cursed them both with death.   17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’   “Cursed is the ground because of you;     through painful toil you will eat food from it     all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,     and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow     you will eat your food until you return to the ground,     since from it you were taken; for dust you are     and to dust you will return.”   So god was good to his word, inflicting death upon Adam and Eve, just as he proclaimed in the law he placed upon them.   This post answers both of your questions with adequate clarity for you to understand exactly what I mean, Edgarcito.   You should now be in no doubt about who did the tricking (the serpent) and who was tricked (Adam and Eve).   You should also be in no doubt how god applied the full extent of his law upon Adam and Eve.   With these issues settled, we can now move on to my next questions to you.   These follow.        
    • You bet.    In Whom reside all beings, and Who resides in all beings by virtue of His being the giver of grace to all – I am that Soul of the Universe, the Supreme Being, I am that Soul of the Universe, the Supreme Being. - Amritabindu Upanishad
    • One, as I have requested, you haven't demonstrated that God has tricked anyone.   And two, define "full extent of the law", and how God has done this to Adam and Eve.        
    • Thank you, Edgarcito.       Then it's ok for god's children, Adam and Eve, to be punished to the full extent of the law?       But it's not ok your own children to be punished to the full extent of the law?       Even though, in both cases, both sets of children were tricked into breaking the law?       Really?              
    • thanks. 🙂  i might've thought of it that way because of PbJ.  if you haven't read his posts, you might want to. 
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