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      The Bible calls all those who do not believe in its god a fool.

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      The bulk of science does not support belief in a deity, or does it? This is an open discussion area to hone your skills at supporting and understanding the various positions. Feel free to post any links of value in this important topic.

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      This area is for those who have left Christianity for another form of theism or spirituality (Deism, Paganism, Wicca, Great Spirit, The Force, Buddhism, etc.).

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  • Our picks

    • Here's an interesting episode that breaks down popular fallacies that many theists who are knowledgeable about the arguments prefer to steer clear of: 
      • 3 replies
    • Fundamentalist Christians tend to say either you are a Christian or you are not a Christian.  That may be true for the irrational tribal identity of their churches, but it does not make sense in terms of philosophy and theology. If you read the Bible as deliberate metaphor, as symbolic allegory, not as literal history, then it is possible to retain the ethical value of the texts while accepting none of the surface claims.  The value of the Bible is enhanced by assuming the original authors did not intend that any of their supernatural poetry should be read as literal fact.
        • Like
      • 39 replies
    • One of the benefits of logic is the ability to test whether a particular proposition is true or not.  It often follows the progession: A=B, B=C, C does not equal D; therefore, the proposition that A=D is not likely to be true.  With this in mind, let's look at a particular proposition and follow the progression to its logical conclusion.  
      If logic is the absolute standard for reasoning , then everyone should either agree with the conclusion, or, if disagreeing, be able to point out a flaw in the logic.  Let's begin:
      PROPOSITION: god is both all-loving and all-powerful. 
      OBSERVATION: Evil exists
      A. If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, then evil would not exist.
      B. If god is neither able nor willing to prevent evil, then god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful. 
      1. If god is able to prevent evil, but not willing to, then god is not all-loving. 
      2. If god is willing to prevent evil, but not able to, then god is not all-powerful.
      CONCLUSION: The proposition that god is both all-loving and all-powerful is not true.
      DISCUSSION: It is possible that god is all-loving but not all-powerful.  It is possible that god is all-powerful but not all-loving.  It is possible that god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful, which raises the question: why worship god?
      But it is not possible for god to be both all-loving and all-powerful. 
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 85 replies
    • My ex christian beliefs are as follows in 10 simple points, each of which has been the focus of one debate / discussion or another around here: 
      1 ) I believe that all religions are man made social constructs geared towards politicizing ancient mythology and folklore. 
      2 ) I believe that no one really knows with certainty the answer to the question of origins or destination. 
      3 ) I believe that the bible is demonstrably false from the outset as a guide to the truth of the universe or the human condition. 
      4 ) I believe that anything basing itself on the assumption that the bible is true is automatically false, as the bible is demonstrably false. 
      5 ) I believe that morality is an evolved concept which continues to evolve and has never been static or handed down from on high. 
      6 ) I believe that the morality of the biblical writings is long since outdated and mostly irrelevant to modern society. 
      7 ) I believe that modern scholarship has revealed the truth about the biblical writings and the evolving theistic concepts contained therein. 
      8 ) I believe that it's both intellectually honest and well intended to expose what truths can be demonstrated about the bible and christianity, through counter apologetics. 
      9 ) I believe that as painful as it may be at times, it's ultimately for the greater good that christianity and similar religions are losing membership and declining into the future under the weight of their own growing lack of relevance. 
      10 ) I believe that humanity doesn't need the fluff and circus show of religion in order for people to do what's right, be decent, and get along. 
      What do you believe???? 
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 71 replies
    • Is there sufficient evidence to believe complex life could have evolved on its own from non-life without some intelligent creative force?  Is it at all plausible that some intelligent being, perhaps from another universe, could have been the creator of the complex life on our planet (and any other planet in this universe that may have complex life) using evolution as a tool? 
      • 67 replies
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    • You claimed you wanted to understand apostates; and here is Walter, an apostate who is asking (pleading, even) to be understood.  But you're just going to throw your hands up, say "well, shucks, I tried!" and use it as an excuse to tuck tail and run?    Cowardly.  Cowardly behavior and not befitting one who has not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love, and sound judgement.  Where is your courage in christ, brother?  We're you not sent here to be a voice calling out in the wilderness?  A light unto dark places?   Jesus is ashamed of you.  And so am I.  
    • Professor-- Back one last time. 😀 I don't mean to be "passive-aggressive". I've really tried to be nice while on the board. It is extremely difficult to have a discussion with Walter. I think it's because I genuinely do not understand where he is coming from. Sincerely. I"try" to reply to him--and think I have been thorough. Then he comes back and says I am bearing "false witness".   He confuses the heck out of me. Oh well, for the third time, goodbye.
    • Thank you Professor. I only came back to ask Walter to please refer to my post where Charlie Brown and Linus have a conversation. Walter is acting just like Linus. I am not "bearing false witness" Walter (interesting you use that term when I take it you don't believe in the Bible). You seem to want to make YOURSELF the center of the subject being discussed, and I need to capitulate to YOU or you will ACCUSE ME of bearing false witness. Check out what Linus says. You are doing almost the same thing. OK I think I can leave now. Goodbye.
    • Belief can be a world away from reality, as we all here know. About 500 years ago now, Christian inquisitions were burning woman at the stake as witches all over the world. Some of these women were only  practicing homeopathic medicine.
    • Intelligence is understanding the world around you.  Wisdom is understanding your place in it.  It looks like you've come to understand your place is not here.   Well done.
    • How did God prove he exists?   Do you meet him for coffee every Tuesday?    Or maybe you asked him for a sign and then saw a Jesus bumper sticker the same day?   I think something is majorly wrong when we look for proof or evidence that something we worship actually exists.  Or when someone appears on a forum to try to convince me that a being is real. A being that a believer has to present many excuses about why it never appears in the flesh and never clearly communicates to nonbelievers.    But hey, I hope you enjoy your personal belief in God. It works for you but not for me.    Wisdom is allowing people to believe as they choose. 
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