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    •  Many apologists will say that the arguments for God’s existence should be seen as a cumulative case rather than any single argument being a reason for belief on its own. This is understandable as the majority of arguments for God are second hand inference, God of the gaps or incredulity based, so as evidence goes none of it should not be convincing on its own.

      The cumulative case works in both directions, as there are many reasons to disbelieve in a God’s existence, but any single argument may not be convincing on its own. With that in mind, here are a few of the more common reasons for disbelief and the rabbit hole of questions that these reasons lead to:  
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    • The evidence is clear that evil and suffering exist.
      The evidence that god exists?  No one really has any.
      Moreover, we know that even if a god does exist, evil and suffering obviously do not offend him.  If it did, he'd have put a stop to it by now.  After all, if he is omniscient, then he knows how much evil and suffering there is; and how broken and miserable it makes human existence.  If he really is omnibenevolent, then he wants to prevent his children from brokenness and misery.  If he really is omnipotent, then he has the ability to prevent the evil and suffering that causes brokenness and misery.  And if he really is omnipresent, then he is present every where that evil and suffering exist.
      If god is all of these things, and evil and suffering offend him, then why do evil and suffering continue to exist?  Why has he not moved to alleviate his own offense and save us all in the process? The simple fact that evil and suffering continue in this world is, in itself, evidence that god is not offended by it... or maybe god isn't the omni-max he's made out to be... or maybe god simply does not exist. 
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    • Animal suffering is a subject which I have thought of as simply a variation on the problem of suffering.  If God loved every one of His creations, then why would He set up a system where predators need to kill live prey to survive.  It's a system designed around killing, which is hard to reconcile with a loving, good God.
      However, I came across some other implications of animal suffering that expand the subject in several interesting ways.  The first was that if you are an old Earth creationist, so accept evolution, then the creation of every species that we see was guided by the principles of survival of the fittest, with evolutionary pressure being horrendous suffering (predation, disease, starvation, conflict etc).  The tool that God decided to use was untold misery for hundreds of millions of years, before we get to our current world of diverse life.
      The fact that thousands of T-Rex stalked the lands killing to survive, can't be seen as necessary, when they are all extinct long before His chosen people come along.  Hundreds of millions of years of creatures being torn limb from limb, before any of it mattered for our existence.  Why have that time period of suffering without benefit?
      I was talking to a vegan, who said God loves all of His creations, and believing that Christians should be vegan because killing His creations was against His will.  This just led to pointing to the horrors of the OT, where God requests burnt sacrifices on a regular basis, saying that the smell was pleasing to Him.  Or to the Israelites attacks on various cities, where they are told to kill all of the inhabitants, including the innocent animals.  King Saul even angered God for not murdering all of the animals, as some were taken as plunder.
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    • Hello,
      I guess our reasons for joining this site are slightly different for each person and yet perhaps desperation might be a common theme. So, with that said, a brief introduction. I have been involved with Christianity for many years. Out of sheer despair, I suppose I ended up finding this site. 
      Here is my experience with Christianity:
      The unhappiest times of my life were when I got myself involved in Christianity. I marvel at those who appear to be at ease with it all. I conclude, there's something wrong with me. 
      Never, have I felt more powerless, worthless, unfree. 
      • 9 replies
    • Failed prayer, the idea that there is an invisible being , listening to everyones thoughts is beyond laughable. 
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  • Recent Posts

    • sdelsolray
      Welcome.  Your journey has been rather thorough and is quite inspiring.  I am not surprised where it has led you.   Many here have made similar or analogous journeys ending up with a better understanding of their beliefs and of themselves.   You indicated that you are currently "in the closet" with nearly all of your social network.  Be forewarned that fully coming out is typically an arduous experience, at least for most folks.  Should you choose to become public with your awakening, remain civil, maintain intellectual and emotional honesty, and realize that the scorn, vitriol, shunning and outright hate directed at you will be caused by the deep and longstanding religious indoctrination of the infected, among other reasons.
    • JamesDHampton
      Hello Everyone!  My pen name is James D. Hampton. I am a former Christian turned atheist with a degree in biblical studies who worked in ministry for over 15 years before deconverting from Christianity in 2022. As of now, I am anonymous to the public. Only my wife and a few close friends know. But I started a blog under my pen name just this year. If you're interested, it is www.ExaminingChristianity.com    I always had a love for studying the Bible, but the more I studied when I was a Christian, the more I began to see problems that started to undermine what I had always believed. I was trained in apologetics, and while these answers often pacified young Christians just needing to know how they could respond to their skeptic friends in a social media debate, I came to realize that the simplistic and often shallow answers were not sufficient in addressing and engaging serious questions and inconsistencies. So I decided to strengthen my faith by doubling down on my studies and prayer life.   Over multiple years, I read close to 400 books and hundreds of peer-reviewed articles with the specific aim of keeping my faith. I spoke with dozens of Christian friends, pastors, colleagues, professors, and scholars.   In addition to reading the Bible, I researched multiple fields of study while praying something would help my faith. I studied textual criticism, philosophy, early church history, social anthropology, human psychology, neuroscience, archeology, human biology, comparative religious studies, ancient Near Eastern religions, cultures of the current and ancient world, ancient genres in which the Bible was written, and so much more hoping to find something, even a thread, I could hold on to. Yet, all these fields led me to one conclusion: There is no good evidence for the supernatural, including “God” or gods.   I had to make a decision to either be committed to my faith or be committed to following the evidence wherever it led.   I cried out to God, prayed endless prayers, and dug, and dug, and dug trying to keep my faith. Eventually, it got to the point where the only way I could hold onto faith with what I knew was if I did so dishonestly and just ignored all the evidence. But that’s no faith at all.   I quickly learned that faith isn’t an arbitrary choice like putting on clothes in the morning. While I could still choose my behavior and go to church, take communion, worship, and play the part on the outside, I couldn’t make myself believe it was true no matter how hard I tried.   By this time, I had gone through multiple methodologies trying to hang on to Christianity; from extreme fundamentalism, mainstream evangelicalism, moderate Christianity, and non-denominationalism to High Church, liberalism, extreme progressivism, and even panentheism I realized I couldn’t make the supernatural worldview make sense with the evidence and data no matter which direction I went.   I didn’t leave Christianity because I failed to ask, seek, and knock. On the contrary; asking, seeking, and knocking is what led me out of Christianity. I could either stay in Christianity dishonestly or I could leave it honestly. I chose the latter.   As an atheist, I still love studying. Even though I am no longer in ministry, I spend a good part of my life studying because it is a passion I’ve always had and still enjoy, and it is so pertinent to our culture. So I decided to start this blog to share my research and findings with others.   Even though I’m an atheist, I’m not anti-religion in and of itself, nor do I believe we should be antagonistic toward believers. That said, I’m against any harmful or hurtful religion and I’m convinced most fundamentalism falls into this camp. However, I don’t believe it is fair to say all religions (or all forms of Christianity) are intrinsically toxic.   As I still have many Christian friends who are pastors, professors, scholars, and just everyday common Christians, I have seen the good that some forms of religion and Christianity have done, are doing, and can do (typically more liberal and progressive forms). My goal is to build bridges by creating open and honest dialogue. The only way we can do that is if we remain open-minded and respectful of others.   I’ve learned a lot through cultural anthropology, neuroscience, and psychology; and one thing is clear: Religion is complicated. People believe for many reasons and that’s not going to change anytime soon. Relationships, society, culture, community, family, conditioning, emotional needs, purpose, and many other reasons go into it. That’s why I try to respect people who remain in faith and are not a harm to themselves or others, even though I strongly disagree with their supernatural beliefs. I would love to be an assist here and help out in any way I can. I look forward to "meeting" you all. 
    • moxieflux66
      Right, but............ Before that was the Catholic church as a gatekeeper for information. The Guttenburg press was the internet of its time, spreading the information of the bible far and wide to those who learned to read, bringing us now to the age of the internet, for all the Good, Bad and Ugly it has the potential for, better or worse, like all knowledge (Good and Evil perhaps?).  I would rather all information was out there than a confined Information Highway, with all due respect.  BUT........... There's so much crap out there that it gets drowned out for lack of anything useful to learn.  And sort of like book burning, that content isn't going to go away. For better or worse.  Imagine what AI will do, and in a hurry. 😵‍💫 I agree with you here the most. What we teach our children of critical thinking is...well.......CRITICAL. Especially if you don't have the easy answers for you that xtianity provides. Teaching kids how to figure out right and wrong doesn't have to come from a confusing set of rules from a (dubious) 2000 year old book. It's innate in most cases and just needs to be nurtured.    Thank you all for your thoughtful comments!  Moxie 
    • moxieflux66
      Wise reminder. Thank you.    In other words, please don't drink and post (if you can help it) 😇
    • moxieflux66
      Plus more stuff to come! It's always better on the other side of christisanity! 😊
    • Weezer
    • older
      Congrats, Daniel. Another benefit from leaving is not living under fear and guilt.
    • Hierophant
      And if you oppose it, you're "Islamaphobic!"   What a scam they have been running.
    • TheRedneckProfessor
    • Casualfanboy16
      Yeah I saw my post about sacrilegious humor on Google images when I was searching up for more stuff to add to the thread. I was like "Wait. Is that my profile picture?!" Lol.
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      Here because I want to see what more is out there. 
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    • Casualfanboy16


      Happy New Year to my fellow heathens!!! Hope everyone has a fantastic new year and 2024 goes well for all people here! My New Year's resolution is to get a better sleep schedule (I'm not failing shhhhh! 🤫)
      Here's to a great 2024!! 🥳🍻🎊🎉
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