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    9. Ex-Christian Spirituality

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  • Our picks

    • Here's an interesting episode that breaks down popular fallacies that many theists who are knowledgeable about the arguments prefer to steer clear of: 
       
       
      • 3 replies
    • Fundamentalist Christians tend to say either you are a Christian or you are not a Christian.  That may be true for the irrational tribal identity of their churches, but it does not make sense in terms of philosophy and theology. If you read the Bible as deliberate metaphor, as symbolic allegory, not as literal history, then it is possible to retain the ethical value of the texts while accepting none of the surface claims.  The value of the Bible is enhanced by assuming the original authors did not intend that any of their supernatural poetry should be read as literal fact.
        • Like
      • 39 replies
    • One of the benefits of logic is the ability to test whether a particular proposition is true or not.  It often follows the progession: A=B, B=C, C does not equal D; therefore, the proposition that A=D is not likely to be true.  With this in mind, let's look at a particular proposition and follow the progression to its logical conclusion.  
       
      If logic is the absolute standard for reasoning , then everyone should either agree with the conclusion, or, if disagreeing, be able to point out a flaw in the logic.  Let's begin:
       
       
       
      PROPOSITION: god is both all-loving and all-powerful. 
       
      OBSERVATION: Evil exists
       
      GIVEN:
      A. If god is both able and willing to prevent evil, then evil would not exist.
      B. If god is neither able nor willing to prevent evil, then god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful. 
       
      PROGRESSION:
      1. If god is able to prevent evil, but not willing to, then god is not all-loving. 
      2. If god is willing to prevent evil, but not able to, then god is not all-powerful.
       
      CONCLUSION: The proposition that god is both all-loving and all-powerful is not true.
       
      DISCUSSION: It is possible that god is all-loving but not all-powerful.  It is possible that god is all-powerful but not all-loving.  It is possible that god is neither all-loving nor all-powerful, which raises the question: why worship god?
       
      But it is not possible for god to be both all-loving and all-powerful. 
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 85 replies
    • My ex christian beliefs are as follows in 10 simple points, each of which has been the focus of one debate / discussion or another around here: 
       
      1 ) I believe that all religions are man made social constructs geared towards politicizing ancient mythology and folklore. 
      2 ) I believe that no one really knows with certainty the answer to the question of origins or destination. 
      3 ) I believe that the bible is demonstrably false from the outset as a guide to the truth of the universe or the human condition. 
      4 ) I believe that anything basing itself on the assumption that the bible is true is automatically false, as the bible is demonstrably false. 
      5 ) I believe that morality is an evolved concept which continues to evolve and has never been static or handed down from on high. 
      6 ) I believe that the morality of the biblical writings is long since outdated and mostly irrelevant to modern society. 
      7 ) I believe that modern scholarship has revealed the truth about the biblical writings and the evolving theistic concepts contained therein. 
      8 ) I believe that it's both intellectually honest and well intended to expose what truths can be demonstrated about the bible and christianity, through counter apologetics. 
      9 ) I believe that as painful as it may be at times, it's ultimately for the greater good that christianity and similar religions are losing membership and declining into the future under the weight of their own growing lack of relevance. 
      10 ) I believe that humanity doesn't need the fluff and circus show of religion in order for people to do what's right, be decent, and get along. 
       
       
      What do you believe???? 
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 71 replies
    • Is there sufficient evidence to believe complex life could have evolved on its own from non-life without some intelligent creative force?  Is it at all plausible that some intelligent being, perhaps from another universe, could have been the creator of the complex life on our planet (and any other planet in this universe that may have complex life) using evolution as a tool? 
       
      • 67 replies
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  • Recent Status Updates

    • duderonomy

      duderonomy  »  Krowb

      Hey you! I hope you are well.
      · 1 reply
    • duderonomy

      duderonomy  »  LogicalFallacy

      Hey LF, 
       
      I hope you are well fellow Grand Master.
       
       
       
       
      · 1 reply
    • Margee

      Margee

      Why did I reach "Grand Master'' (14/14) status on my profile?    I haven't been here very much for awhile and this is something new? Or maybe this is a demotion?  Am I a Grand Master? Is this something I should be proud of? Somebody tell me the truth!! Are you guys supposed to bow down to me now??   
      · 4 replies
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      duderonomy  »  Margee

      Hi Margee. 
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    • Joshpantera

      Joshpantera

      I guess today it's time to spank some christian ass again....
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  • Recent Posts

    • TABA
      Oh god no, don’t encourage him…
    • DarkBishop
      Wow thats cold. I have to say. I have had a few of the ministers from the gospel assembly that I was close to contact me over the years. One of which unfortunately is seeing things but still trying to believe the Bible is true. To the point he is getting sucked in to the flat earth fanatics. Its sad honestly.    But I guess they gotta get kudos for atleast checking in from time to time and try to "win me back to the lord". It was honestly like a real life lions den debate one time. But he's a good guy. Just brainwashed. 
    • LogicalFallacy
      Good one prof, thanks for making me laugh. It's little things like this that brightens ones day. 
    • TheRedneckProfessor
      This would not have been a likely scenario.  I kept my struggles more or less to myself.  Keep in mind, in my church, behavior was paramount.  The correlation to that was "keeping up the image".  I appeared to be just as strong and determined in my faith as ever until the very last moment, at which point I simply disappeared from the church altogether.  I've only ever set foot in the church 2 or 3 times since then.   Of course, not a single person from the church ever once reached out to me once I left.  You know, like jesus would have done.  Not even the men in the ministries I was involved in.  Everybody just seemed to accept that I was there one Sunday and then never seen or heard from again.
    • DarkBishop
      When this happened did the church already know you were losing faith? I kind of wonder what he was going to say. I imagine that if the pastor gave him a heads up about your troubles with the faith that he probably would have given you a "message from God" to sway you in what he felt was the "right" direction.    I really like what you had to say to him tho. That really stopped him in his tracks lol.        There were a couple times that I felt there God gave me something to tell an individual. One time it was when my wife and I first met. She had been through a bad relationship. And she was still hurt. And I felt that she was walking in darkness and having a hard time finding her way out but that God was going to make a way.    But I knew what she was going through. So that wasn't really a prophesy. But I felt compelled to tell her that. Like you said. I was just kind of reading her by her actions and knew she was having trouble. So really it was just me giving her some words of encouragement. Not really a "message from God". But I didn't see it that way then.    DB
    • walterpthefirst
      Myrkhoos,   Thanks once more for the insights into how the EO church functions.  In can truly say that I'm bemused and mystified by what you describe.  As I mentioned before, should and EO Christian arrive here I will probably step well back and not engage them in debate.  Their brand of Christianity is so far removed from what I've experienced as to be an 'alien language'.   Thank you,   Walter. 
    • DarkBishop
      Of course you don't think this is true Ed. You don't follow the Bible to the letter. There are rules and descriptions of how a Christian should present themselves to the world as believers.      Your belief seems to be based more on feelings than the letter of the law so to say. I stated before if I had a lax interpretation of the Bible as you do, being a Christian and dealing with biblical fallacies wouldn't have been much of an issue for me. And that's good for you Ed because that allows you to live your life as you see fit without worrying about the danger of going to Hell.      But if I were still a Christian lurking on this site. And I came across the lions den and saw how you spoke sometimes. And how you believe. I would call you a luke warm Christian. And I would lump you in the category of one of those that God will spue from his mouth in the judgment.    Rev. Ch. 3 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.   Or that Jesus would tell you to depart.   Matt. Ch 7 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.   I'm not trying to tell you that you need to live differently. Im glad you have a lax stance on biblical rules and regulations. I put myself through hell at times trying to make sure I was going to get into heaven. (Pun intended 😆) The bottom line is your belief allows you to live. Mine didn't. Try to be in a church that thinks you need to be sinless after salvation. And then start studying everything that can be a sin or send you to hell. Its like walking on egg shells.   The ones I've seen come here that are probably true Christians don't last long. They try to re-convert us with whatever hair brained revelation they have seen in the bible. And when that doesn't work they leave. To continue living in their emotional/faith driven delusion of life.    DB    
    • Henndigo
      @austinrohm that is a very high commitment church from the way you describe it.  I would be very anxious in a setting like that because there is no way for a non-believer to take a quiet corner and just be there to support their believing spouse. It sounds like your wife is still hopeful that you will return to becoming a committed believer too.  It might be kinder to give her a clear answer and tell her that you don’t believe anymore and cannot attend the church any longer in pretence.     She will be really upset I am sure but her faith and her children’s faith cannot be built on what you do.  She has to develop her own independent faith and a sense of self respect that is not based on your standing.  No one gets married with an absolute assurance that their spouses will always believe or that life will be perfect.  Reassure her that you are committed to the marriage but won’t be pretending you are someone you are not, including to the children.  At least she already knows that you have doubts and will not be totally blindsided.   Hopefully, things will eventually settle down again once she comes to terms with the  disappointment.  Honestly, the anxiety of not believing anymore but not yet out is worse than the fallout when you take the courage to step away.  I hope that your marriage will survive this difficult time.  It’s unfortunately possible that it won’t.  
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