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    • The evidence is clear that evil and suffering exist.
      The evidence that god exists?  No one really has any.
      Moreover, we know that even if a god does exist, evil and suffering obviously do not offend him.  If it did, he'd have put a stop to it by now.  After all, if he is omniscient, then he knows how much evil and suffering there is; and how broken and miserable it makes human existence.  If he really is omnibenevolent, then he wants to prevent his children from brokenness and misery.  If he really is omnipotent, then he has the ability to prevent the evil and suffering that causes brokenness and misery.  And if he really is omnipresent, then he is present every where that evil and suffering exist.
      If god is all of these things, and evil and suffering offend him, then why do evil and suffering continue to exist?  Why has he not moved to alleviate his own offense and save us all in the process? The simple fact that evil and suffering continue in this world is, in itself, evidence that god is not offended by it... or maybe god isn't the omni-max he's made out to be... or maybe god simply does not exist. 
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    • Animal suffering is a subject which I have thought of as simply a variation on the problem of suffering.  If God loved every one of His creations, then why would He set up a system where predators need to kill live prey to survive.  It's a system designed around killing, which is hard to reconcile with a loving, good God.
      However, I came across some other implications of animal suffering that expand the subject in several interesting ways.  The first was that if you are an old Earth creationist, so accept evolution, then the creation of every species that we see was guided by the principles of survival of the fittest, with evolutionary pressure being horrendous suffering (predation, disease, starvation, conflict etc).  The tool that God decided to use was untold misery for hundreds of millions of years, before we get to our current world of diverse life.
      The fact that thousands of T-Rex stalked the lands killing to survive, can't be seen as necessary, when they are all extinct long before His chosen people come along.  Hundreds of millions of years of creatures being torn limb from limb, before any of it mattered for our existence.  Why have that time period of suffering without benefit?
      I was talking to a vegan, who said God loves all of His creations, and believing that Christians should be vegan because killing His creations was against His will.  This just led to pointing to the horrors of the OT, where God requests burnt sacrifices on a regular basis, saying that the smell was pleasing to Him.  Or to the Israelites attacks on various cities, where they are told to kill all of the inhabitants, including the innocent animals.  King Saul even angered God for not murdering all of the animals, as some were taken as plunder.
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      • 3 replies
    • Hello,
      I guess our reasons for joining this site are slightly different for each person and yet perhaps desperation might be a common theme. So, with that said, a brief introduction. I have been involved with Christianity for many years. Out of sheer despair, I suppose I ended up finding this site. 
      Here is my experience with Christianity:
      The unhappiest times of my life were when I got myself involved in Christianity. I marvel at those who appear to be at ease with it all. I conclude, there's something wrong with me. 
      Never, have I felt more powerless, worthless, unfree. 
      • 9 replies
    • Failed prayer, the idea that there is an invisible being , listening to everyones thoughts is beyond laughable. 
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      • 20 replies
    • Here's an interesting episode that breaks down popular fallacies that many theists who are knowledgeable about the arguments prefer to steer clear of: 
      • 3 replies
  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 10 Guests (See full list)

    • Casualfanboy16
    • TheRedneckProfessor
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  • Recent Posts

    • Casualfanboy16
      Huh. Never thought about this. All very good points. And of course, more reasons as to why it's all bullshit lmao. My one pastor believes in the eternal separation of God version of Hell. That concept used to scare me, even more than fire and brimstone and torture. Being alone, separated from everything for all eternity. However, the more I think about it, the less it makes sense, especially with the stuff you brought up. I guess that's how it goes at this point lol.
    • TheRedneckProfessor
      From a technical/logical perspective, eternal separation from god is impossible because of his omnipresence.  There is no place that is outside of his presence, thus "hell" must exist somewhere in the presence of god.  If he withdraws his presence, as his omnipotence would certainly allow, then he would no longer be omnipresent; but that also means he can't do it, and so he's not omnipotent.  I guess he's just mysterious and shit.    Another note about god's (supposed) omnipresence:  Because god is holy, he cannot abide sin in his presence.  But all of humanity is sinful.  Even christians still have the nature of Original Sin.  And "sinners" are even more filled with sin.  So, how can god be present in a place where there is so much sin if his holiness cannot abide sin in his presence?  But, if he can't be present where there is sin, then he's not omnipresent, which also means he cannot be omnipotent.  Yeah, must just be mysterious and shit. 
    • Casualfanboy16
      The only thing I can think of is that god would somehow remove the ability for someone to get bored for Heaven; or for Hell, somehow make it so that the torture/eternal isolation never stops making you suffer no matter how old it gets. Even when the novelty wears off, I feel like somehow that god would do something to us in both scenarios to make eternity be exactly how he wants it to be.   This begs the question though... if we're going by the eternal separation from god version of Hell rather than the fire and brimstone version, what would that look like? I assume it's separation from all of god's creation and everything good, I suppose. Would it be infinite pain without all the fire and brimstone mumbo jumbo, or would it just be endless nothing? I don't think anyone can really know, but "eternal separation from God" is a bit of a vague scenario, and therefore more difficult version of Hell for me to imagine compared to the usual fire and brimstone torture, gnashing of teeth shit I heard about pretty much all my life.
    • TheRedneckProfessor
      I'd imagine an eternal damnation would probably also get boring after a while.  Sure, the torment of hellfire and brimstone, the stench of burning flesh and rotting entrails, might seem exquisitely horrifying for the first few decades.  But, honestly, how many times can a person be flayed alive before it becomes old hat?  Even the whole "separation from the presence of god" would likely get pretty stagnant once the novelty wore off.
    • Casualfanboy16
      Honestly, I don't find the idea of eternal bliss appealing. Don't get me wrong- the idea of eternal damnation obviously doesn't appeal to me either, but how can god keep eternity in Heaven satisfying enough for us to stay there forever and ever? My pastor explained it one time that essentially he thinks that Heaven is going to be like, in a way, how kids can do something over and over again and never get bored of doing it. Doesn't exactly make sense to me because kids get bored?? Like, sure they probably have more energy and stuff, but even kids can't do the same thing over and over again without it eventually getting boring, right. As @Weezer once told me: "As the saying goes: insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". I think of Heaven that way. Because eventually, with our eternal lifespan, how long will it take for things to start getting monotonous, repetitive, etc. Sure, there'll be new things to do, but eventually the novelty surely would wear off, right?   Unless God does something to our minds when we step through the Pearly Gates, how're we going to be kept entertained for all eternity? According to God (and many Christian songs) we don't really deserve this gift we're getting because we're all born into sin anyway. We're all dirty, shameful sinners who must come to him in order to be saved... even though he set us up from the start to be pretty much codependent on him and to give him glory that he really doesn't need or deserve. That's certainly not the sign of a narcissistic abuser! Nope! No red flags here!
    • Fuego
      They want to finally "win" and have all their beliefs justified with a big payout of eternal bliss. But I'd bet that none of them would enjoy a dictator king, particularly a psychotic one that wants blood as payment for forgiveness, even if they imagine they would. The never ending programming of listening to preachers and Christian music and going to church and reading only Christian materials is what keeps them in the cult and insulates their emotions from giving them reality-checks. Most cults operate that way.  
    • mwc
      It's a nice case of othering to justify a genocide.  If they're not human then who really cares?        But, assuming he's right, and the whole flood was to wipe out the Nephilim, then why are they still around in Numbers 13 when Moses sends spies ahead to check out the land of Canaan?  Is this just another case of god dealing in partial measures instead of full measures?        Should I really worry about a god that half-asses it at every turn?  I'm thinking that when "everyone" is dealt with in these supposed end times that means a few people might be dealt with and the rest will just sort of be left wander off to do whatever like they have since day one.             mwc  
    • Casualfanboy16
      Nooooo!! Gosh darn it. I wanted to make funky text. I only have bold, italicize, and underline.   And additional options like quoting text and making a numbered or bullet point list if I turn it horizontally.
    • Weezer
      Same on my Iphone.  There seem to be features you get on a computer you don't get on a phone.
    • Casualfanboy16
      I wonder if certain features are absent on mobile. I don't have that option. No strike through or color options. If I rotate it horizontally I get additional ones, but no colors or anything.
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    • Casualfanboy16


      My art might be put on hold until next month. My internet is really sucky right now and my traditional art skills are hoooorrible so lmao. On the bright side... I got some great ones planned, so that'll be something to look forward to!
      · 0 replies
    • Casualfanboy16


      Tfw you drink the Communion wine and you start seeing Jesus sitting next to you at the table. Hate it when that happens.
      · 4 replies
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