I find it shocking

[Anodos]

I have been as guilty of what I am about to say, as anyone else. To the point: the severe lack of critical thinking in mainstream Christianity. The question is why?

A Christian,  in every other aspect, can behave and think rationally. Make good decisions, analyse a situation clearly and so on. Yet, when it comes to doctrinal issues, this critical thinking faculty seems to switch off. I have a few theories -

 

1. one is the idea that a simplistic faith is a virtue. The 'innocent trusting faith of a child' is to be esteemed. I do see some merit in this, but as we all know the bible is a huge collection of texts, far from easy to comprehend and often seemingly contradictory.

 

2. Questioning somehow implies a lack of faith. (But is it not through questioning, that one gains more understanding?)

 

3. 'We'll never know the answers to these things, so there's little point in asking the questions'. How do we know which questions will and will not be answered?

 

4. 'Avoid foolish arguments'. Isn't that what it says in the bible?' I agree. But I wouldn't ask these questions if I didn't think they were important. 

 

5. 'That was the Old Testament. We live in the age of Grace now.' 

 

6. 'I just believe He died for sinners. That's all you really need to know.' So, forget the rest of the bible. John 3:16 is enough?

 

7. 'I just believe what the bible says.' This implies that because you question aspects of the doctrine, you therefore do not believe. 

 

I'm as guilty of this as the next person. For years, I would read/hear passages from the bible. I did not question anything but just accepted everything I read. 

 

Many years later, I did begin to question. Naively, I approached church members and posed certain questions. I got a shock at the response. They did not want to know. They made me know that. I was astonished. How was this? I could not understand. The reactions I received  generally fit with those summarised 1 - 7.  They were verbally aggressive often, ridiculing. I gave up in the end realising it was getting nowhere. But I do not blame these people for I'm no better. They're human like the rest of us. I simply ask the question how it can be that an otherwise normal human being can accept 'truths' that, in any other context would be appraised with a critical mind? 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

When I was about 5 or 6 years old, I went to Sunday School at my parents' church.  The teacher was constantly telling us all of the things that make jesus cry.  Running in the hallway makes jesus cry.  Not sharing crayons with the new kid makes jesus cry.  Starting a fight with Davey Wayne makes jesus cry.  Crawling under the table to look up Tina Cochrane's skirt makes jesus cry.  Everything, it seemed, made jesus cry.

 

I asked the teacher about it one day.  I asked her, if every little thing makes jesus cry, how was he able to go to the cross as silently as a lamb?  She did not come back the following Sunday.

 

I may have been on to something there...

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 hours ago, Anodos said:

. I simply ask the question how it can be that an otherwise normal human being can accept 'truths' that, in any other context would be appraised with a critical mind? 

 

It does boggle the mind when your finally outside the faith. I've asked the same questions and I think that it is multiple influences that cause the cognitive dissonance. So here are my thoughts about what may be the cause.

 

1. The salvation experience. I know that this is different across the denominations. But in American evangelical churches the salvation experience is VERY powerful. I consider it religious gaslighting. The pastor preaches a sermon about how all people are under sin and destined for Hell. Usually the unsuspecting candidate has already been preprogrammed to know the difference between heaven and hell through childhood indoctrination. This makes it easier but doesn't have to be the case. Either way the pastor convinces the candidate that they are guilty of sin from birth and that they are destined to be tormented for eternity. The candidate is now uneasy. This person doesn't want to go to hell. And the pastor begins to expound how we can't do anything ourselves to rectify this situation. In God's eyes we are lowly sinners worthy of eternal torment. But wait there's more! Don't despair. Enter the passion of Christ. He took your punishment upon himself. Then the pastor expounds the heartbreaking story of Jesus. And what he went through just for you. He was sinless but was made sin for you and I. The pastor may be very emotional at this point. Crying and pleading for anyone outside of Christ to accept Jesus. This pastor truly believes all this himself. He believes so passionately that the emotion hits the candidate as well. The candidate is in miserable condition at this point. Believing that they are the scum of the earth for something they didn't even do. And to top it all off this good, wholesome, innocent person who didn't deserve what the candidate does took their place instead. They know they need Jesus to save them. Apparently..... its the only way. The pastor reads from the Bible. "Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the father but by me. 

       The candidate is now racked with guilt and fear. At the altar call they finally can't take it anymore. They kneel and pray asking Jesus into their lives. They have already been told what happens when they do this. So when they do it the intense feeling of relief they feel when they believe Jesus has taken all that sin away is profound. They feel light as a feather. All that guilt and dread is gone in an instant. In seconds they go from the worst feeling of worthlessness to the extreme happiness of being a child of God. 

    My theory is that this event is so extreme one feels that it must be from God. But no. It was just religious gaslighting and the candidate was never worthy of the punishment the pastor put into their minds. But its done. The experience is there in their minds now. And this experience alone will keep most people in the faith. 

 

2. Intense indoctrination/brainwashing that the Bible is "True" above anything else is a huge factor. People are literally programmed to not listen to anything contrary to the bible. We've all seen it and probably done it before when we were in the faith. 

 

3. Familial connections either alive or dead. Ex-Mrs. Bishop holds to the fact that she knew her grandfather and how passionately he believed and "knows" there is a God because of that and "everything" else she saw. Like a woman "possessed with demons" that the pastors cast out. I'm thinking that specific event was probably in her childhood. The family alive make a person feel like they will be an outcast if they leave the faith. And in some cases this is very true. I know denominations that will shun someone who leaves the church and even tell there family they must do the same. 

    And the prospect of never see dead relatives in heaven keeps people believing as well. 

 

4. Hell

Hell is the punishment that hangs over every Christian that doubts the faith. If the church is a "once saved always saved" church they will just believe you never had salvation to begin with if you leave the faith. In holiness churches we believed you could lose salvation. Hell is a very effective tool for keeping people tithing and in church. Unfortunately even when people leave the faith, this fear is so ingrained that it is hard to shake. 

 

Those are the four main reasons I think Christians turn a blind eye to facts and rational thinking. But I also am thinking that the rational mind may be our next step up the evolutionary ladder. Or atleast that is my hope. 

 

DB

[older]

An excellent analysis, DB.

 

As to humans evolving a rational mind, that would only happen if a substantial portion of the species is prevented from breeding.

[Dsred19]

Dark Bishop, your 2nd point is something I have found. All of my reasons for wanting to leave Christianity are considered invalid because they didn’t come from a biblically based source. But if the Bible is really true, shouldn’t it stand up to scrutiny from secular sources? If it is really true, why is it so vital to my faith that I never read or listen to other viewpoints outside of the Christian lens?

[☆ pantheory ☆]

13 minutes ago, Dsred19 said:

Dark Bishop, your 2nd point is something I have found. All of my reasons for wanting to leave Christianity are considered invalid because they didn’t come from a biblically based source. But if the Bible is really true, shouldn’t it stand up to scrutiny from secular sources? If it is really true, why is it so vital to my faith that I never read or listen to other viewpoints outside of the Christian lens?

 

I'm sure you realize the answer to your question. They don't want you to read other viewpoints because then, your faith might start to fade.

 

For instance, the book of Genesis can easily be disproved by a mountain of evidence in science, and the book of Revelation reads like Alice in Wonderland, many parts of the Bible are self-contradicting,  etc.

 

Yes, study other sources, not opinions but the facts of science, and I think you will see that the Bible is simply a children's story book in light of today's knowledge. Once you realize these things, I agree that you should deal very delicately with those that continue to believe in religion. Cheers

[◊ Weezer ◊]

4 hours ago, Dsred19 said:

 

 If it is really true, why is it so vital to my faith that I never read or listen to other viewpoints outside of the Christian lens?

 

 

BINGO!  You may already be aware of the below, but hey, I'll give you my two cents worth.  How do you know it is the truth, until you study all the available evidence?  Which they don't want you to do.  By the way, Dark Bishop is taking a sabbatical.

  

Years ago an ex-Muslim said something that hit me like a ton of bricks and triggered a decades long study.  If we had been born in the midde east of devout Muslim parents, and had never looked outside that faith, and with the psychological conditionung of their fear based doctrine and society, we would be "dyed in the wool" Muslims.   Duuh!  Why didn't I think of that??

 

Read about psychological conditioning if you are not aware of it.  It can run very deep in individuals, as well as in societies.  It can become absolute truths.  Especially if you are conditioned to be afraid of questioning.  This is really boiling it down, but the Jewish forerunners of the Catholic Church fabricated the Bible as we have it.  God wasn't guiding them in the canonization process.  If so, it should have happened quickly.  But they argued over which books would go into it for over 100 years.  And burned or destroyed anything that did not agree with what they came up with.  And later would kill people not agreeing with them.  They dang near wiped out all other religions in that part of the world over several centuries.  They also "force fed" their religion for centuries.  Study the middle ages if you haven't already.  

 

Hitler was quoted as saying, "tell a lie long enough, and people will begin to believe it."  That tends to be true.  They were masters of psycological conditioning a large portion of western society.  The largest superstition in the world.  Also, are you aware there is a Protestant Bible, Catholic Bible and eastern Orthodox Bible?  Similar, but not all have all of the same books.

 

And did you know there are much older stories of "saviors"  that are very similar to the Jesus stories?  And much older stories of the creation and the flood written by ancient Sumerians?  Biblical writers were evidently copy cats.   When you look at the much bigger picture of the Abrahamic religions, they fall apart.  And Some have believed since the very early days of Jesus followers, that he was not "divine".  But a very wise person.  And some believe he is from a god different than the Abrahamic god.  Take your pick.  They all claim to be the truth.  And I won't even mention the obvious inconsistancies of the Bible, of which you are likely aware of.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

m

[jedi]

My doctor is a devout Christian and refused many times to prescribe me medications for depression because he thought it was a "spiritual issue" or "conflict with forgiveness". It does boggle the mind to think about this. 

 

On the outside looking in. God (or the Jewish God Yahweh) is a terrible person, which is give an exempt pass for everything condemned by judges and good-hearted human beings.

 

If God does something wrong, there must be some grand or mysterious reason in which we are incapable of understanding. And the burden comes to us to blindly believe.

 

Making TRUTH a person was the most clever trick the ruling class (or goat herders) did, because how could such a person ever be questioned? 

 

 

[Dsred19]

5 hours ago, jedi said:

My doctor is a devout Christian and refused many times to prescribe me medications for depression because he thought it was a "spiritual issue" or "conflict with forgiveness". It does boggle the mind to think about this. 

 

On the outside looking in. God (or the Jewish God Yahweh) is a terrible person, which is give an exempt pass for everything condemned by judges and good-hearted human beings.

 

If God does something wrong, there must be some grand or mysterious reason in which we are incapable of understanding. And the burden comes to us to blindly believe.

 

Making TRUTH a person was the most clever trick the ruling class (or goat herders) did, because how could such a person ever be questioned? 

 

 

As someone who has suffered from anxiety and depression for years, this makes me so angry. That doctor should lose his license! Thankful that medication is available, it can be life changing for people like us.

[freshstart]

12 hours ago, jedi said:

My doctor is a devout Christian and refused many times to prescribe me medications for depression because he thought it was a "spiritual issue" or "conflict with forgiveness". It does boggle the mind to think about this. 

In my humble opinion you need to find a new doctor. (And he could be disciplined for that kind of response if you report him.) What's he going to do if you develop appendicitis? Pray it away? 

All the best to you!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 hours ago, freshstart said:

In my humble opinion you need to find a new doctor.

 

I agree with freshstart.  If you haven't already done so, find another doctor.   I have "fired" two of mine in the last five years because they acted like they were gods.  And a mental health professional might be in a better position to know which medication would work best for you.  Years ago my family doc put me on some antidepredssant that made me like a zombie.

[older]

21 hours ago, jedi said:

My doctor is a devout Christian and refused many times to prescribe me medications for depression because he thought it was a "spiritual issue" or "conflict with forgiveness". It does boggle the mind to think about this. 

This quack needs to be reported to the appropriate medical agency. This is surely malpractice.

[Myrkhoos]

I would go into the realm, as Weezer said, cult and psychological indoctrination.

 

My opinion? Our ordinary day to day mind is not built fo reason or truth seeking but for survival and thriving. Truth can be a part of that or counter to that. There is neuroception, a kind of unconscious awareness we all have that scouts for dangers/ pain. We all have spidey sense :)). We all experienced it. You walk down the street and reflexively duck when a branch falls without thinking. It can backfire but generally it if does - you lost some time, energy, if it didn t activate you would die. Yes, you ducked and it was just a couple of feathers. That's good, but what if it was a big branch? That part of the brain switches off higher functions. Try solving a math problem while running from a bear :)).

              For many people with their make up, questioning their faith activates that part of their brain --> switches off neurological capacity for critical thinking --> renews a sense of safety through defense mechanisms like thought terminating cliche --> can now use critical thinking for something else. This is because their religion is fundamental to their identity and social group attachments. Once I understood that, things became much easier for me to understand. Not the only variables but very important ones.

 

Also yes, some practices and beliefs are designed, intentionally or not, to elicit strong emotional responses that one can easily attribute to ( insert your spirit entity here). 

 

By the way, now that I have some experience with children( not mine), this "innocent faith of children " has a total different ring to it. Children can be very inquisitive, rebellious and even manipulators. They are not blindly obedient, just more direct. 

 

From my experience, I ended up leaving while trying to be a more devoted all encompassing follower. I just found no credible or possible answers to do that, then it all started crumbling.