What is the number 1 reason why you do not believe?

[quantum]

Failed prayer, the idea that there is an invisible being , listening to everyones thoughts is beyond laughable. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The idea that god has a plan for everybody, coupled with the problem of suffering. 

 

 

[older]

The number-one reason? It makes no sense. It denies reality, defies logic, and ignores the facts. Christianity is a coping mechanism for people who are afraid.

 

As I have written here before, I spent my career in photojournalism and have seen photos that no one outside of the profession will ever see, and have heard from the photographers who took them. The level of suffering and death in those photos is beyond the most remote possibilities of anyone's imagination. The photo posted by the Professor is tame in comparison. There is no way an allegedly kind, benevolent deity who is allegedly all powerful, all seeing and all knowing, would let such things happen. If there is a god, it is an evil, selfish, cruel son of a bitch who deserves no respect whatsoever.

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Boiling it down to the #1 reason for me would be the numerous inconsistancies.  Too many things just did not "add up."

[Wertbag]

#1 - Divine hiddenness.  God has done a great job at making it look like He doesn't exist.  This is in direct conflict with the claims that He wants us to know Him, and that He wants a personal relationship with everyone.  He loves us, but not enough to bother showing up.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I suppose it is a summary of all the reasons to say that it simply isn't real. That was what hit me after 30 years of on-fire belief. I had so many questions piled up and ignored because they threatened the big payout of heaven, and I didn't want to let anything steal away that prize. But when I finally had reason to question openly and was now unwilling to take silence as an answer, all the questions came rolling down off the shelves and burst open. With only god-silence and the continual mantra of "just trust" in something that was increasingly unworthy of trust, the realization hit me that I'd been tricked by a childish fear into dedicating my life to an imaginary friend along with millions of others who were likewise tricked by tales of love and magic they said were historically true. An all-powerful all-knowing friend that is the embodiment of love, but does nothing to help those in need. All the parlor tricks and emotional manipulation of charismatic preachers, and the gullible believers shelling out money to keep the facade going. Cold outrage replaced faith. I sifted through it all and kept things like kindness, because choosing that really does change the world for the better. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Very well said, @Fuego.

[pantheory]

Number #1 reason I don't believe is that no religion makes any logical sense to me: Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, creation of man,  Revelation, etc.  All just a book of fairy tales for non thinking folk IMO.

[older]

Fuego:

Your comments remind me of the allegory of Plato's Cave, wherein people have been born inside a cave and spend their entire life inside, looking at a wall on which shadows are cast. They know nothing of the world outside, and believe that what they see is the entirety of reality. There's more to the allegory than that and it fits the Christian mindset perfectly.

[alreadyGone]

After living most of an adult human lifetime, there was the realization that belief in an omnipotent imaginary friend had made of me a weaker, more foolish human being.

[ConsiderTheSource]

As far as details and processing goes, I will sum it up with " As Fuego said".

 

The absolute final nail comes down to statistical science.

 

It is popularly said that the supernatural can not be detected in our world.

 

This is not a true statement.

 

The Christian religion makes the claim that prayer "changes things"; and that these changes are demonstrable. 

 

If these changes are demonstrable, they are DETECTABLE via statistical sampling/science.  It should be quite easy to detect these changes.

 

Well, the few studies done have found zero changes ourside of the placebo effect.

 

And, if these massive changes were real you can bet that the religions would jump on the opportunity to execute such a statistical study.

 

They have not.

 

There is zero actual impact from prayer.  There is no "god".

[midniterider]

I grew up agnostic....married a Christian....became a Christian because she was one....divorced that Christian after 10 years ....kind of just reverted back to agnostic after not going to church for a year or so. 

 

Christianity is fear based, shame based, and guilt based. Those are mostly my reasons for not being in it anymore. Science, logic, reason are fun to use against Christians but I don't let those things deter me from pursuing alternate forms of spirituality or philosophy. 

[older]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:04 PM, midniterider said:

...

Christianity is fear based, shame based, and guilt based.

...

I like that. Totally accurate.

[DOA]

Christians!  

[DOA]

On 6/12/2023 at 2:04 AM, midniterider said:

I grew up agnostic....married a Christian....became a Christian because she was one....divorced that Christian after 10 years ....kind of just reverted back to agnostic after not going to church for a year or so. 

 

Christianity is fear based, shame based, and guilt based. Those are mostly my reasons for not being in it anymore. Science, logic, reason are fun to use against Christians but I don't let those things deter me from pursuing alternate forms of spirituality or philosophy. 

Me too. Spirituality is all different than Christianity.  

[DOA]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:38 PM, alreadyGone said:

After living most of an adult human lifetime, there was the realization that belief in an omnipotent imaginary friend had made of me a weaker, more foolish human being.

I understand.  At 69 I can't remember of one church I went to that did me any good.  In fact, it made me an angry disgruntled, pissed off human being.  The more I'm around Christians, the more stress I experience.  The more I stay away from them, the more I'm at peace.  I have never found 'peace' in christianity.  Especially being that I reject trinity, the most diabolical nonsense that ever entered this debacle of a religion.!  

[Casualfanboy16]

Personally, my number one reason is the fact that I'm gay and the Bible makes it pretty clear people like me aren't welcome into the pearly gates. Not to mention even outside of Christianity and religion in general, lgbt people aren't treated kindly here because it's a conservative part of my state I'm stuck in and it's hell on earth to even be alive and watch as evangelical Christians strip away my rights and even non-religious individuals don't even seem to care about me or understand why we have to keep fighting as the US is plagued by Christianity to the point where I don't feel safe here anymore. I try my hardest to be respectful of the beliefs of others and see their side of things, but I can't dismiss the hell on earth me and people like me are forced to endure on the daily due to their beliefs literally causing harm to people I love.

 

I desperately want to be kind and patient with these people. I don't want to be bitter, angry, resentful and fuelled by hatred, but man does being here hurt sometimes, especially the hell trans people and drag queens are being put through currently. My heart goes out to all lgbt people in America and the rest of the world right now,  especially in these uncertain times. I don't know who you are and you don't know me, but I want you to know I'm here and I'll try my best to cheer you on wherever you are!! 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

The Bible 

 

I know that is probably an odd answer. But The bible is what made me start to question. The Bible can't provide substantial proof to counter what we know in reality. 

 

We know the age of the earth is billions of years. The Bible says 7,000.

 

We know the earth is a sphere. The Bible has a flat earth creation.

 

We know there was no world wide flood. 

The bible ..... well Noah and all the ridiculousness in his story.

 

The bible does not reflect truth or reality. And that is why I can not believe anymore. 

 

Good question,

 

Dark Bishop

[Anodos]

This is not in defence of any standpoint. It was the claims made about the Bible too, that made me really re-examine the situation. I. remember thinking, 'how can it be that today, we have thousands of educated, smart, successful people, who despite all their education, still subscribe to all these stories? How can we be expected to believe all this?'

 

Age of the earth - with my education in evolutionary science, I was convinced there was something amiss. As I'm sure you're aware, many theologians refute the young earth theory and instead would state that the 7000 year mark, is only the geneological time line from Adam. That the earth was populated by life for a long time prior to the arrival of Adam.

World Flood story - another story that just seems absurd. Again, as I'm sure you're aware of, many theologians believe the flood was a localised one. Due to mistranslations of the word 'world', a 'global flood' story became the norm.

 

I'm not defending either way. Was just part of my journey. I too really found those claims absurd.

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

37 minutes ago, Anodos said:

 

World Flood story - another story that just seems absurd. Again, as I'm sure you're aware of, many theologians believe the flood was a localised one. Due to mistranslations of the word 'world', a 'global flood' story became the norm.

 

If you haven't seen them, Google "Sumerian versions of creation and flood".  Much older than the Bible.

[Wertbag]

1 hour ago, Anodos said:

This is not in defence of any standpoint. It was the claims made about the Bible too, that made me really re-examine the situation. I. remember thinking, 'how can it be that today, we have thousands of educated, smart, successful people, who despite all their education, still subscribe to all these stories? How can we be expected to believe all this?'

 

Age of the earth - with my education in evolutionary science, I was convinced there was something amiss. As I'm sure you're aware, many theologians refute the young earth theory and instead would state that the 7000 year mark, is only the geneological time line from Adam. That the earth was populated by life for a long time prior to the arrival of Adam.

World Flood story - another story that just seems absurd. Again, as I'm sure you're aware of, many theologians believe the flood was a localised one. Due to mistranslations of the word 'world', a 'global flood' story became the norm.

 

I'm not defending either way. Was just part of my journey. I too really found those claims absurd.

 

 

 

I never had a problem with people saying the flood was just a moral story, but you've got to cherrypick with one eye closed to squeeze a local flood out of the story. Its more an example of people realising how ridiculous it is and then trying to twist it to make it fit the real world. 

[traveller2]

I left because of the nastiness of other Christians.  I really did believe and made excuses for the behaviour of Christians, the kind of excuses I'd been taught from books and the pulpit.

 

I'd been born again at 17 and I think I was just under 15 yrs as a Christian. I went to theological college and got some two faced shit on my first morning there. Something snapped inside me. That even there people were no different. I stopped praying and bible reading. My Christian wife was probably a narcissist and her manipulation also affected me. When we split up Christians took her side automatically and this further eroded my faith. It was the lack of critical thinking that they'd just automatically take her side, never giving any thought that there could be another story in the marriage.

 

They all did me a favour in the end. It really helped me to walk away. Later on I began dissecting  the actual teachings but I left because of Christians themselves, really just to survive emotionally. I've been out for over 12 years now.

 

 

[AnonSan]

I had enough of Christianity when I see more people taking advantage of vulnerable people by cherry-picking the Bible. They think by using the Bible they can justify hate, discrimination, and oppression to deprive everyone of dire humanitarian rights simply because they do not follow the "truth" or exploit them based on fear-based tactics for their own gain. 

 

I also grew up in a home that enabled internalized misogyny, sexism, fear-based ideologies, groupthink, and favoritism among my family and church of origin. My parents neglected my emotional health because they felt the needs of the church and their reputation in it were more important than taking care of their family. My parents only felt the proudest when I (reluctantly) followed their Christian path. Yet my family was indifferent towards my (secular) lifelong milestones because they were more invested in shaping my golden-child brother as their lineage successor. Instead of acknowledging my merit, they downplayed my successes as if was God's work than my own. I was deprived of other privileges than my brother had access to simply because I was not their (firstborn) male. My parents are in complete denial in how much the Christian upbringing damaged my self-worth that they would rather gaslight or dismiss my experiences as the "devil's talk."

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I know the following point would be lost on people still in the grip of religious belief; and, in truth, even as an unbeliever, it comes dangerously close to being dismissible as an argument from incredulity.  But, lately I've been considering the sheer unbelievability of the christian religion. 

 

Leaving aside the obvious fable stories of a magical fruit in a utopian garden, a global and systemic flood, immaculate conception, virgin birth, talking animals, and city walls crumbling down as a reault of a crowd of desert nomads simultaneously hollering on cue, the very premise of a god of love requiring death because he loves us but our sinful nature grieves him is patently ridiculous. 

 

To begin with, if we have a "sinful" nature, then we must have been created that way, presumably by the same god who is offended by it.  The idea of free will is supposed to circumvent this problem; but, if we were created with free will in order to choose between good and evil, then we were created with the capacity to choose evil as part of the creation process.  And what is a sinful nature if not the capacity to choose evil?  

 

So a loving god is offended by the very creation he loves for the way he created it?  This is not believable.

 

Then there is the problem of this god requiring blood from his creation because of the way he created it.  Scripture invites us to believe that not even a sparrow falls to the ground without god knowing about it.  That is how much he "loves" all creatures great and small (especially us!).  Yet, the only way this god, who loves us so much, is able to forgive us for the way he created us, is for us to shed blood.  Blood.  For centuries, wholesale slaughter of animals, whom this god also supposedly loves, was required in the temple in order to placate god's holy wrath.  Then jesus came and provided the final sacrifice. 

 

But why would such a barbaric practice be required by a god?  If he is the one true god, then he should be complete within himself.  Why should he require anything?  And why would he, in his infinite love and mercy, choose blood as the thing he was going to require?

 

An infinite god who still needs something from us, whether it be worship, obedience, commitment, or that tiresome catch-all of Faith, is just not a believable concept.  But a god of infinite love requiring bloodshed before he will love us completely is, again, patently absurd.

 

Of course, there is also the problem of evil and suffering, which is separate and distinct from the "nature of sin."  The "nature of sin" posits that we are sinful ourselves, we choose evil, and we suffer in consequence.  But, even the most casual observation of the world we live in reveals immeasurable suffering for nothing more than gratuitous purposes.  Horrific diseases, natural disaster and calamity, pestilence, famine, and jock itch. 

 

And god does nothing.

 

The problem of evil/suffering reveals that either god cannot prevent it, or he doesn't want to.  But the christian religion would have us believe that god is both omnipotent and omnibenevolent.  If this is true, if god is both all-powerful and all-loving, then evil and suffering should not exist.  

 

Yet it does.

 

So, is an omnipotent god not able to prevent it?  Does an omnibenevolent god deliberately choose to allow it?  Both propositions are as illogical as they are unbelievable. 

 

Whatever reasons one might have for leaving the christian religion behind, I would argue the main reason for unbelief really boils down to unbelievability.  Blind faith might allow for the willful suspension of skepticism and critical thinking, yet still allow one to see how ridiculous the claims of Islam or Hinduism are.  But the claims of the christian religion are equally absurd and unbelievable. 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

 But the claims of the christian religion are equally absurd and unbelievable. 

 

 

The biggest deception ever played on human beings!