Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Why Quantum Theory Is So Misunderstood

Started by BrotherJosh , Feb 22 2012 12:23 PM
Brian Cox

  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 BrotherJosh

BrotherJosh

    Heathen Duffer

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boise
  • Interests:Golfing, Hiking, Cooking, Reading, Writing, Good Movies, Long-boarding, Mountain Biking, Micro-brews, Aquariums, Jeeps, and Whiskey
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Walter Sobchak

Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

Great article by Brian Cox, I thought...

This statement received some criticism in scientific circles. Not because it’s wrong, because it isn’t; without this behavior, we wouldn’t be able to explain the bonds that hold molecules together. The problem is that it sounds like woo woo, and quantum theory attracts woo-woo merde-merchants like the pronouncements of New Age mystics attract flies – metaphorically speaking


http://blogs.wsj.com...-misunderstood/
  • 0
Ignorance is bliss, Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions - Stephen Colbert

#2 par4dcourse

par4dcourse

    Meh....

  • Atheist
  • 4,796 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Charlotte, NC
  • Interests:Whatever catches my brain today.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Asimov and Hawking come close.

Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:29 PM

Great article. My favorite line:

Quantum theory, in other words, describes a counterintuitive world, but not a mystical one.


I have friends who can't quite grok the principles, therefore goddidit makes more sense.
  • 1
‎"Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all."-- William Goldman

"I had the right to remain silent, just not the ability."--Ron White

#3 Rev R

Rev R

    Dudeist Priest

  • Moderator
  • 991 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore, MD
  • Interests:lots of stuff

    exactly where is the line between an interest and an obsession?
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Mu

Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:52 PM

"Quantum spirituality" bothers me and it seems to me to cut both ways. It is a misinterpretation of QT and a misunderstanding of the teaching being equated. In some cases, it is just made up to sound like a person knows what they are talking about.
I'm not sure what sutras you have been reading, but the Buddha most certainly said "The Dude abides."

#4 Legion

Legion

    Psycho Somatic

  • Senior Member
  • 11,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere in between
  • Interests:Survival sounds good. I'd really like to have understanding too That'd be cool.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :the smile on Lao Tzu's dog

Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:56 PM

I gave you a +1 on that one Rev.

Not that you may particularly care. :)
  • 0

Posted Image


Living under the rise of tyranny.

#5 midniterider

midniterider

    Rationalist

  • Regular Member
  • 2,137 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Omnipresent
  • Interests:Chaos Magick, Meditation, Lucid Dreaming. I try not to take my philosophy of life too seriously.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Agnostic

Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

Great article by Brian Cox, I thought...



This statement received some criticism in scientific circles. Not because it’s wrong, because it isn’t; without this behavior, we wouldn’t be able to explain the bonds that hold molecules together. The problem is that it sounds like woo woo, and quantum theory attracts woo-woo merde-merchants like the pronouncements of New Age mystics attract flies – metaphorically speaking


http://blogs.wsj.com...-misunderstood/


" and our future depends on the widespread acceptance of science as THE ONLY WAY WE HAVE to meet many, if not all, of the great challenges we face. "

compare that to

“I am the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

Similiar theme.
  • 0

Scientists used to believe that Christians used circular reasoning in their arguments. But with recent improvements in instrumentation they have discovered Christians actually use elliptical reasoning.

#6 Noggy

Noggy

    hurrdurr

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morgantown, WV
  • Interests:Sitting, Moving
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :herpderp

Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:03 AM

science is such an inadequate tool to describe why
  • 0
"Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind."

#7 Legion

Legion

    Psycho Somatic

  • Senior Member
  • 11,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere in between
  • Interests:Survival sounds good. I'd really like to have understanding too That'd be cool.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :the smile on Lao Tzu's dog

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:24 AM

science is such an inadequate tool to describe why


Apparently we have another humanities buff here, who has to express contempt for science in order to bolster his own decision to pursue the humanitites.

Kinda sad.

The roots of science extend as far back as Aristotle who was all about asking... "why?"

Oh, and I enjoy the humanities too.





.

Edited by Legion, 26 February 2012 - 07:26 AM.

  • 0

Posted Image


Living under the rise of tyranny.

#8 Babylonian Dream

Babylonian Dream

    The Babylonian

  • Regular Member
  • 4,621 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Upstate New York, United States of America
  • Interests:Archaeology, Anthropology, History, Linguistics, Physics, Biology, Primatology, Theology, and Geology
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :No

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:35 AM

Science thrives off asking "why". That's what I love about it. You seek and answer and you find it, without having to rely on a big nonexplanation for what happened. Religion/spirituality don't really answer "why", people just like to think that they do.
  • 1

Just a friendly reminder. This is Ex-Christian.net. We are former christians, we left the faith, because we saw that it was bullcrap. Just a fair warning, we still think its bullcrap and will say so on our forum. Expect it!

#9 Noggy

Noggy

    hurrdurr

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morgantown, WV
  • Interests:Sitting, Moving
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :herpderp

Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

The roots of science extend as far back as Aristotle who was all about asking... "why?"


Nope. How? and Why? are different questions. Don't get em confused now.
  • 0
"Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind."

#10 Guest_wester_*

Guest_wester_*
  • Guests

Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

Copenhagen
Hidden Variables
Many Worlds

Those are your horses.
Place your bets.
  • 0

#11 Dhampir

Dhampir

    I'm the ThunderGod, Bitch!!!

  • Senior Member
  • 3,108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :My All-Powerful Imagination

Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

I was watching a Youtube video with Michio Kaku, whom I highly respect, where he asserts that quantum theory proves free will. The thing about it is, he's forgotten more about quantum theory than I'll ever know, but he fails completely to explain how uncertainty at the quantum level means that we can choose any more freely than if that weren't the case.

It's rather disheartening that they go so off the rails with one thing, in order to believe another. Especially considering that in another video, when asked about quantum entanglement and ESP, he explains that the level of entanglement could never build up sufficiently to cause ESP, were it possible, and therefore couldn't explain it.
  • 0
You find me offensive? I find you offensive for fin-din' me offensive.

I killed Superman! I killed Super--man, 'nd how ironic, that I'd be the bad guy Kryptonite the green chronic. 'Cuz I ain't got no legs, or, no brain. Nice to meet you, hi, my name is-- I forgot my name!

Now I need you to open, your mind, your eyes close em' *close em'*. You are now about to be placed under my hypnosis *nosis*. For the next 4 1/2 minutes, we are going to explore into your mind to find out why you're so fucking jealous-- Now why do they make yoohoo? pipitty caca poopoo. Psyche! I'm kidding I just wanted to see if you're still listening.

#12 Ouroboros

Ouroboros

    Innominatus, 3/4 Curmudgeon, arrogant übermench bully

  • Super Moderator
  • 31,371 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Interests:Beer, food
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Multiversalist / Panentheistic Naturalist

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:01 AM

I was watching a Youtube video with Michio Kaku, whom I highly respect, where he asserts that quantum theory proves free will. The thing about it is, he's forgotten more about quantum theory than I'll ever know, but he fails completely to explain how uncertainty at the quantum level means that we can choose any more freely than if that weren't the case.

Agree. If quantum events are unpredictable, then a decision made from an unpredictable condition is nothing but a random choice. It's truly free, but is it a "will" in that case? "Free" and "will" are opposites in my opinion.
Jabbrwokk QFT:



And behold, one came who in the form of a demon holding a beer, and he spake with a tongue of red. And when he spake, he said bye bye, and all listened, and watched as he smote the babbling troll with his +5 banhammer of fedupishness. And there was much rejoicing.



Book of Hans 3:16

#13 Guest_Valk0010_*

Guest_Valk0010_*
  • Guests

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

I am skeptical of the little I know of quantum theory. The little I know about says to me, that these people are masturbating and don't have a clue what there talking about. Can't say I have a better explanation then them, but the supposed consensus leaves me a little worried. They can't even get down the basic origins of the universe, so am I going to trust them about quantum theory. Not in the near future.
  • 0

#14 BrotherJosh

BrotherJosh

    Heathen Duffer

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boise
  • Interests:Golfing, Hiking, Cooking, Reading, Writing, Good Movies, Long-boarding, Mountain Biking, Micro-brews, Aquariums, Jeeps, and Whiskey
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Walter Sobchak

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

I am skeptical of the little I know of quantum theory. The little I know about says to me, that these people are masturbating and don't have a clue what there talking about. Can't say I have a better explanation then them, but the supposed consensus leaves me a little worried. They can't even get down the basic origins of the universe, so am I going to trust them about quantum theory. Not in the near future.


Actually, it's one of the most tested and verified theories out there. Do you use a USB drive? Those wouldn't exist if it weren't for Quantum Tunneling. Pretty sure those don't work because a physicist masturbated onto your flash drive.
  • 1
Ignorance is bliss, Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions - Stephen Colbert

#15 Noggy

Noggy

    hurrdurr

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morgantown, WV
  • Interests:Sitting, Moving
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :herpderp

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

I was watching a Youtube video with Michio Kaku, whom I highly respect, where he asserts that quantum theory proves free will. The thing about it is, he's forgotten more about quantum theory than I'll ever know, but he fails completely to explain how uncertainty at the quantum level means that we can choose any more freely than if that weren't the case.

It's rather disheartening that they go so off the rails with one thing, in order to believe another. Especially considering that in another video, when asked about quantum entanglement and ESP, he explains that the level of entanglement could never build up sufficiently to cause ESP, were it possible, and therefore couldn't explain it.


Michio Kaku is a loon.
  • 0
"Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind."

#16 Legion

Legion

    Psycho Somatic

  • Senior Member
  • 11,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere in between
  • Interests:Survival sounds good. I'd really like to have understanding too That'd be cool.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :the smile on Lao Tzu's dog

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:47 PM


The roots of science extend as far back as Aristotle who was all about asking... "why?"


Nope. How? and Why? are different questions. Don't get em confused now.


Noggy, when we ask "why?" and we focus on efficient and formal causes, then how and why are identical.
  • 0

Posted Image


Living under the rise of tyranny.

#17 Noggy

Noggy

    hurrdurr

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,823 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Morgantown, WV
  • Interests:Sitting, Moving
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :herpderp

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:58 PM



The roots of science extend as far back as Aristotle who was all about asking... "why?"


Nope. How? and Why? are different questions. Don't get em confused now.


Noggy, when we ask "why?" and we focus on efficient and formal causes, then how and why are identical.


Science by definition can never give you those efficient and formal causes, though. They can only give you "How?", and then it can only give you "How?" to a point. By definition any scientific approach to anything will be incomplete.
  • 0
"Most of the luxuries and many of the so-called comforts of life are not only not indispensable, but positive hindrances to the elevation of mankind."

#18 Legion

Legion

    Psycho Somatic

  • Senior Member
  • 11,970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somewhere in between
  • Interests:Survival sounds good. I'd really like to have understanding too That'd be cool.
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :the smile on Lao Tzu's dog

Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:01 PM




The roots of science extend as far back as Aristotle who was all about asking... "why?"


Nope. How? and Why? are different questions. Don't get em confused now.


Noggy, when we ask "why?" and we focus on efficient and formal causes, then how and why are identical.


Science by definition can never give you those efficient and formal causes, though. They can only give you "How?", and then it can only give you "How?" to a point. By definition any scientific approach to anything will be incomplete.


Noggy I here direct your attention to this thread... http://www.ex-christ...ral-entailment/

We can there dicuss this if you wish.

Edited by Legion, 27 February 2012 - 01:02 PM.

  • 0

Posted Image


Living under the rise of tyranny.

#19 BrotherJosh

BrotherJosh

    Heathen Duffer

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 2,102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Boise
  • Interests:Golfing, Hiking, Cooking, Reading, Writing, Good Movies, Long-boarding, Mountain Biking, Micro-brews, Aquariums, Jeeps, and Whiskey
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :Walter Sobchak

Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

Michio Kaku is a loon.



Posted Image

He's good at explaining certain things, in an easy to understand way. But, in my opinion, he has an over-active imagination.
  • 1
Ignorance is bliss, Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions - Stephen Colbert

#20 HereticZero

HereticZero

    Idiot Savant

  • ☆ Silver Patron ☆
  • 5,987 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Nanny State, USA
  • Interests:Rocks, writing, home-brewing, gardening, fossils and coprolites, the writings of Samadhi Sativa, prophet of Yo!
  • Still have any Gods? If so, who or what? :I do what my prostate tells me to do.

Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:59 PM

Michio Kaku rocks!
  • 1
"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so ...." -- (Jeremiah 5:31)

"CPR beats prayer hands down!"
Back to Science vs. Religion


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Ex-Christian.Net
  2. → Discussions
  3. → Science vs. Religion
  4. Privacy Policy
  5. Terms of Service (TOS) and Community Rules ·