My Slow Drift Away From The Shores Of Christianity...

[marmot]

I grew up in a Christian home. Although my parents came from more strict religious backgrounds, neither one of them were "emotional" Christians and I think that had a large impact on me. My parents (my father in particular) were very intellectual about their faith and it plays a large role in their life, but I never remember a prayer of theirs lasting more than about 2 minutes. When I later questioned mainstream Christianity's teaching on evolution and free will, my dad was very accommodating and was never reproachful or made me feel like I was treading in dangerous territory -- he was always excited to dialogue with me about the way my faith was evolving.

 

I grew up part of a moderate church congregation/denomination and did the whole youth group 2x a week plus Sunday mornings, with a sprinkling of mission trips, retreats and summer church camp. I also went to a Christian school that prided itself on its academics, and was never pushy about faith. I actually disliked church strongly in my earlier days before finally breaking in to a group of friends and gaining their acceptance when I started highschool. I didn't realize it at the time, but I do now: social opportunities were really my main connection and tie to Christianity.

 

In highschool I considered myself a "real" Christian, all the time doubting the professed faith and sincerity of some of my friends (especially those at school, not at church). I really did try hard at it -- I wasn't great at doing daily devotions (which is a badge of honor as you all know) but I never swore, drank, smoked, made out, and rarely gossiped or put down others. I tried to embody the fruits of the spirit.

I went off to college and chose a very small public university over two high profile conservative Christian colleges, for two reasons. One, because my sister encouraged me to "get out of the bubble" (~20 church/school friends were going to one of these colleges, a few were going to the other). The other reason was because the public school was dirt cheap and the Christian schools would have left me in a lot of debt. I am so thankful for this decision, as I don't think I would have ever found my way out if I firmly rooted myself in either of those communities.

 

At college, I joined FOUR different campus ministry groups in an attempt to find like minded friends (as this was a pretty liberal institution, bless its soul). Over the years I would serve as a leader in three of these, and eventually leave two of the organizations because of frustrations with them. I also sampled a different church each year while in college (Evangelical Free, Lutheran, Fundy community church, Episcopal) which gave me a lot of insight into the different ways people liked to worship.

 

The first cracks in my Christian foundation started to appear my freshman year, when, as a science major, I took a class entitled the "Evolution of Biodiversity". I had never really thought much about the whole evolution/creationism debate -- I can legitimately say I had really not thought about it much because my school did not teach evolution in my biology class, but they also did not teach creationism. I was an empty vessel...and the overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution won me over to thinking that evolution was true. In order to reconcile this with my faith, I explained my theistic evolutionist viewpoint with the logic that "God and Science" are not mutually incompatible. I read a lot of books that made me feel better about that but this was my first real departure from popular Christian doctrine. It would play a role in the next major event in my life that caused those cracks to widen.

 

In addition to loving science, I love working with kids. I got a summer job during college working at the church camp I had attended since 3rd grade. After having a few years of science classes, I was getting pretty good at answering kids' questions about the way the world works. It has never occurred to me to tell a kid "God made it that way," as I have always thought that was a cop out answer.

 

Well, at the fire circle at the end of camp kids submitted questions anonymously on notecards for the counselors to answer. Some of the kids asked some questions about evolution and their faith. I answered the question in what I thought was a very honest and fair way. However, the camp director then spoke up and told a ludicrous story about turtles. He explained that turtles used to get eaten all the time by predators and got picked on, so one day the turtles were sitting around talking, and they said, " you know what would be nice? Shells." So they evolved shells. That sounds plausible, right kids? Of course, all of the campers and some of the other staffers laughed and agreed that evolution sounded like a stupid idea.

 

I was fuming mad, and I have not quite forgiven him to this day. We had previously talked about our ideas on faith and science and I thought he respected my position, even though he disagreed. I was really hurt by this and it both opened up my eyes to how small minded church folk can be, and it also made me feel a little bit like a renegade. I kind of liked my renegade status, and I learned to embrace it as I matured.

 

During my senior year of college, I was taking a lot of classes that were challenging me both intellectually as well as spiritually and politically. I was taking a philosophy course that made me realize there was not a reasonable argument for the existence of God. I took a higher level evolution course which further reinforced some of the ideas I had already learned about. I took a women's studies class, which helped me to understand how damaging the patriarchal culture of the Bible has been to women's rights. I also took a class on world religions, which showed me how similar many of the Bible stories were to other myths (the flood, creation, sacrifice etc.). I also took a physical chemistry course, which was just damn hard! I also started reading some books (a New Kind of Christian) by Brian McLaren, which helped me become more relativistic and liberal in the way I approached my faith. The reason I list all of this out is to demonstrate that I really felt like I was in a battle for my soul that semester -- so many of my core beliefs were being challenged, and I didn't feel like I was winning all the battles.

 

On top of the challenging classes, I was the outreach leader for Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, the campus ministry organization (we had no Campus Crusade on our campus, so Intervarsity was a little more conservative/fundamentalist than it usually is). I realized that I had never actually shared Christ with someone before. I didn't even really like the idea of telling somebody about Christ. I mean, what was really different in my life because I had him? I was nice to people. Well, so were plenty of atheists at my school. I felt foolish even thinking about advocating for Christ, because I couldn't come up with a good explanation for why a person should be a Christian, other than to save them from hell. I started hating going to the Wednesday night gatherings. They were the worst part of my week.

 

Our IVCF leadership team went on a retreat to the regional mentor/grand poobah's house. We did a lot of praying and silent time and he spoke to us a lot about our great responsibility to deliver the message of Christ to the secular campus. I kept on thinking how awkward this whole thing was -- that my non-Christian friends would think I was totally crazy if they could hear the things we were talking about. That Sunday morning when we got up, the front headline of the paper was a big expose on Ted Haggard, megachurch pastor. He had been seeing a gay prostitute regularly, which came as a bit of a surprise to his congregation. The strange thing was just weeks earlier, I had seen the movie "Jesus Camp" and I was absolutely repulsed by the brainwashing it contained in the name of Christ. Ted Haggard played a very minor role in the film, but I remember thinking the guy came off as a total sleaze bag, and I had a bad feeling about him. My feelings were validated by the truth of his actions, and I really began to see how hypocritical many of the so called leaders of the Christian movement could be. Over the course of the weekend, I also became very uncomfortable with the IVCF mentor, "Greg". Greg was very aggressive about pushing us to spread the good news on campus, and it was a little off setting to me. Little did I know, he would play a large part later in my eventual deconversion.

 

During the final semester of college, Greg called another meeting with the IVCF leadership. He talked to us about adopting a new outreach model. I think it was called the WIND model or some stupid acronym like that. The basic premise was: the more students we got to go to the fall and spring regional IVCF conferences, the more money our group could get as a kickback from the main IVCF organization. There was more to the proposal as well, but that was what it boiled down to: some type of pyramid scheme where the peons at the schools were being used to sign up as many individuals as possible, with a carrot of extra funds being dangled in front of them. I was disgusted beyond belief by this corporate style scheme, and I let Greg have it in front of the other leaders. My fellow leaders mostly supported me, but I was the only one that was actually enraged. I felt like Jesus in the temple with the moneylenders. My disillusionment with evangelical Christianity reached a new fever pitch with this latest experience, although I really think this was the manifestation of all the doubts that were accumulating from the other things going on in my life.

 

Even though I was feeling pretty frustrated by Christianity, I never thought it wasn't true until about 4 or 5 months ago. I simply thought other people were screwing it up. I met my wife after college through church, right before both of us stopped attending regularly. We moved to another state soon after we met, and we never established a church home in this new state. We stopped regularly attending services, and we started to push our sexual boundaries a bit (before we were married). I felt awfully guilty about this and at one point almost broke up with her, but I was able to make bend the mental gymnastics to my will. I basically decided Paul was a prude and a control freak and that I didn't have to listen to what he had to say (whether it be about women, gays, sex etc.). One of the biggest reasons I did not actively search out a church home was that I had community through my wife and her friends at her grad school -- we did not have to go find friends at church.

 

Both my wife and I became more and more liberal over the next few years, after initially starting out college as conservative Republicans, and this started to widen the gap between us and mainstream Christianity. After becoming very frustrated with my faith in college, I thought less and less about my Christian status over the next few years, until I started working at a Christian school this year.We had moved states again, and the job I was able to find was at a private Christian school. I felt a little nervous giving my employer my testimony (kind of like playing an instrument you used to know well, but had not touched in years), but I genuinely still believed it. It was not until that summer that I had to come to terms with the fact that I was working at a Christian school, and I was not feeling particularly Christian. I started work in the fall, and as the days went on and I saw the kind of faith that was practiced by Christian kids, and pushed by many faculty, I realized I no longer felt at home in Christianity.

 

I felt like I did not belong. I began to be bothered by things that did not bug me before (talk of being washed by Christ's blood, the petty way God seems so jealous of our affections, etc.). I also started to do some research on infidels.org about the Bible and all of the errors and fascinations with sacrifices/rituals/rules seemed a hell of a lot more like human input rather than a divine message. I remember having a talk with my dad one night on the phone and somehow we got to talking about the Old Testament. I told him that I thought large parts of the Old Testament, if not most of it, was either highly edited or completely fabricated. I also told him I thought there was some really strange stuff in the NT. I had not told my thoughts to anyone before, so this was breaking new ground for me.

 

My feelings had been coming so gradually that I never really told my wife. I have ranted to her for years about crazy things that Christians say and do, but it has always been from a Christian standpoint. Now I started to feel like an outsider with faith, but I know that if I asked my wife she would still consider herself a believer. We don't go to church, we don't pray, we don't read our Bible, and we are politically very liberal. For all intents and purposes my wife is not a Christian, but I am fearful that if I tell her my feelings that she may want to rededicate her ways (a King Josiah moment, if you will...even though I know that Josiah's "discovery" was likely bullshit made up by the Yahweh sect). I plan on telling her eventually. I will tell her in the next couple of years when I get a new job at a secular school, or if we have a kid, or if she tells me she wants to go back to church. We never talked about our faith when we actively believed and now that I have been deconverting I haven't talked to her about it either. She means everything to me and we are very close and have a healthy relationship, and I am very happy with where we are at right now.

 

That is about it. I have been a little vague about my school and some other details of my life as my livelihood could be lost if I was somehow identified. I am a closet atheist at a Christian school and it is truly a strange and interesting experience (if I was any good at writing, I would love to put a small book together. Maybe even just an article for a freethought magazine/website). I have spent a lot of time on this website in the last 2.5 months -- it is a breath of fresh air after having to spend my day in the closet. One of the few things that I think Christianity is truly good at is developing community/fellowship/a place to be known by other humans. At the end of the day, that is a basic need that we all need met no matter if we are Christian/Hindu/Muslim etc. I am happy to find a new community here, even though we may never meet. Thank you all for your inspiring stories; I hope to continue to enjoy and add to this community.

[MrsRoper]

Awesome. Thanks for sharing. I hope you write your blog.

[Eugene39]

Hi Marmot. Glad you wrote your story out. I hope for your sanity that at some point you will be able to find another livelihood. It would drive me insane. Best wishes.

[marmot]

I hope for your sanity that at some point you will be able to find another livelihood. It would drive me insane.

 

Thanks. It did drive me absolutely crazy -- in November I was looking for a new job -- any job (even out of my field) every day after school. I have found ways to make it more bearable and I actually don't mind it too much anymore. I do my best to teach my students critical thinking and truth, while not going behind my school's back at the same time, too. I feel a little like a Christian in China.

[Positivist]

I also started reading some books (a New Kind of Christian) by Brian McLaren, which helped me become more relativistic and liberal in the way I approached my faith. The reason I list all of this out is to demonstrate that I really felt like I was in a battle for my soul that semester -- so many of my core beliefs were being challenged, and I didn't feel like I was winning all the battles.

~~~

I kept on thinking how awkward this whole thing was -- that my non-Christian friends would think I was totally crazy if they could hear the things we were talking about.

~~~~

I felt a little nervous giving my employer my testimony (kind of like playing an instrument you used to know well, but had not touched in years)...

 

My goodness, marmot. This is fabulous! As I've said in response to some of your previous posts, I can totally relate to your story.

 

I just love these three quotes (above): I too tried to salvage the receding tide of my faith by scooping up the sea of doubt...using McLaren's books. They were in fact a landing spot, but I had further to go. Scary as hell, but worth the fall!

 

I too used to think "OMG! We sound insane!" This has bothered me from the young age of 12 but I managed to stuff those feelings for another twenty years. Then it all started seeping out of the holes! Ack!

 

I laughed out loud at the last quote. Absolutely priceless and it really captures so much!

 

It's wonderful to live this journey with my fellow journeyers here at Ex-C. Peace, marmot!

[FeelHappy]

I've read stories about pastors being closet atheists yet they continue to preach every sunday, a loss of faith doesn't always happen in the best situations. Thanks for your story.

[blackpudd1n]

Hey Marmot,

 

I'm so glad you finally got your extimony posted- I absolutely loved reading it. And I am so glad that christianity has not managed to destroy your relationship with your wife either (ie. you didn't go through with breaking up with her).

 

When you do consider telling her, perhaps you should give her your extimony to read- it is so obvious to me that you love her deeply.

[marmot]

I too used to think "OMG! We sound insane!" This has bothered me from the young age of 12 but I managed to stuff those feelings for another twenty years. Then it all started seeping out of the holes! Ack!

 

I am glad you felt this way too! I most felt this way when we were praying for other people, or when someone was constantly using God/Jesus/Father/Abba in their prayers ("we just ask for this, father, and we know you have the power, Abba, and your grace is enough Farther God, dispense on us Jesus Savior" etc.). Sometimes I would listen and discern patterns in the way they would use these little interjections. Also, when people directly ask for supernatural healing in a prayer (and would I think "ain't gonna happen"). Prayer was fine when it was self talk and wishful thinking for others, but I never got into praying for someone's soul or for their tumor to disappear overnight.

 

Thanks for the feedback! I have empathized with a lot of what you have written as well

[marmot]

I've read stories about pastors being closet atheists yet they continue to preach every sunday, a loss of faith doesn't always happen in the best situations. Thanks for your story.

 

Yes, the Clergy Project. I feel that I can empathize a little with their story. However, I almost never have to talk about God/the Bible in my classroom so I rarely feel directly hypocritical. I also don't have to really change my teaching all that much because I am at a Christian school so I don't feel I am compromising. I will be able to get up and walk away from here in a few years and I still have marketable skills for another job. Sadly, pastors can hardly say that. I feel pretty bad for them.

[marmot]

Hey Marmot,

 

I'm so glad you finally got your extimony posted- I absolutely loved reading it. And I am so glad that christianity has not managed to destroy your relationship with your wife either (ie. you didn't go through with breaking up with her).

 

When you do consider telling her, perhaps you should give her your extimony to read- it is so obvious to me that you love her deeply.

 

I am glad it didn't as well! Strangely enough, I briefly thought about breaking up with her early in our relationship when we started to explore sexually. I thought we were walking together down a road towards evil. But then it felt good, it was healthy, and absolutely no one was harmed...so WTF? Some sky God cares about what I do in my bedroom? Glad I could rationalize away that one.

 

I may give her my ex-timony, thanks for the idea! There is a fair amount more detail where my school is concerned that I can add to it. I am fairly confident she will accept me Christian or not, but I think if I wait longer right now there is a better chance she realizes she is a non-Christian. I do truly love her and faith has never figured into that love. All I can point to when I finally come out is how happy we are, and how not going to church has had no impact on our degree of morality (quite the opposite) or our happiness.

 

Thanks for the encouraging words!

[blackpudd1n]

Hey Marmot,

 

I'm so glad you finally got your extimony posted- I absolutely loved reading it. And I am so glad that christianity has not managed to destroy your relationship with your wife either (ie. you didn't go through with breaking up with her).

 

When you do consider telling her, perhaps you should give her your extimony to read- it is so obvious to me that you love her deeply.

 

I am glad it didn't as well! Strangely enough, I briefly thought about breaking up with her early in our relationship when we started to explore sexually. I thought we were walking together down a road towards evil. But then it felt good, it was healthy, and absolutely no one was harmed...so WTF? Some sky God cares about what I do in my bedroom? Glad I could rationalize away that one.

 

I may give her my ex-timony, thanks for the idea! There is a fair amount more detail where my school is concerned that I can add to it. I am fairly confident she will accept me Christian or not, but I think if I wait longer right now there is a better chance she realizes she is a non-Christian. I do truly love her and faith has never figured into that love. All I can point to when I finally come out is how happy we are, and how not going to church has had no impact on our degree of morality (quite the opposite) or our happiness.

 

Thanks for the encouraging words!

 

Unfortunately, christianity did interfere in my previous relationships, which were often short-lived due to the guilt I felt about having sex.

 

I've been with my fiancee over a year now, and I'm only just starting to overcome those feelings of guilt. In the past I have even lied to family members about the status of my relationships, out of guilt and fear of condemnation, but with him, I just couldn't do it. He meant too much to me to deny to anyone his actual place in my life; I could not disrespect him in such a way. So I told everyone, even my grandfather. We knew very early on that we just wanted to be together, and that marriage would be on the cards. We've already weathered quite a few storms together, and just come out of each closer and stronger. We never got a "honeymoon" period that everyone talks about, because from the get-go we had to deal with a female friend of his, whom I could see was trying to get between us, and whom I had worked out had done everything in her power to break up his last relationship. She was a nasty piece of work, and my fiancee always wants to see the good in people. Jesus, we had some blues over it. Eventually, he saw what she was trying to do, and cut her out of his life. She kept trying, though. it was unbelievable. Bad-mouthed me to his mother, and even attempted to hijack mother's day with his mother by organising to stay there for the weekend. That's when my fiancee really lost it, and told his mother that if she was there, we weren't coming.

 

So, we've come through a lot together already, and the whole christianity-inspired sex shit was just one more thing we've dealt with as we go. All we know is that we love each other and want to be together, and we'll sort out the rest.

 

With your wife, I think it's more important that she knows you love her more than anything else. And it's just so obvious from your extimony. I hope the reaction is positive when you do finally tell her

[marmot]

Minor updates to my extimony re: my wife, family.

 

I brought my wife to the end of the year banquet at my school (spouses were invited). She had met a few of the teachers before but only for a minute or two.

 

Before we left I told her that they all think we go to [insert church name here], so if anyone asks where we go make sure to tell them. It is a surprisingly common topic of conversation. I was worried that she would make some kind of comment about wanting to get plugged in to a church -- instead she laughed and joked about it.

 

In a few weeks we are visiting a conservative friend of hers for a weekend. A few days ago, my wife informed me about our itinerary and also said "[friend] asked if we wanted to go to her church on Sunday morning, but I managed to spring us out of it!" Those words were music to my ears. I told her I would not have attended even if my wife wanted to go and she didn't follow up.

 

My parents visited recently and we argued a bit about gay marriage. My mom thinks it is a choice and I basically told her that the science overwhelmingly says it is a combination of genetic and environmental influences. My sister had previously tried to explain away this inconsistency with the Bible (reinterpreting all of those passages), but I simply told my parents that I did not care to excuse the Bible and twist its context to fit my wishes -- I simply thought the Bible was wrong. They were a bit taken aback by this and I went on to tell them that I thought large parts of the Old Testament (focusing in on Genesis and Moses/Joshua) were simply made up. We talked about this for a while but I think I gave them a good bit of information to digest. I will eventually come out to them as an agnostic but I think it helps to wean them onto it. Not sure if I am doing the right thing but I think it could be for the best.

 

I am still in a holding pattern while I continue to digest my deconversion. I don't shy away from bashing Christians and Christian doctrine/popular beliefs when they come up in conversation with my wife. I am encouraged that she doesn't show any inclination to go to church or pray or read her Bible etc. I think I do have a responsibility to tell her at some point but I think the longer that we backslide away from church the more convincing an argument it will be that we don't need church in our lives.

[freeasabird]

Awesome follow up. I know that's been concerning you for a while how this would play out. I'm glad things are really looking up.

[Cestlavie]

Wonderful story! It echoes so many of the same issues I faced as I "de-converted." I distinctly remember the embarassment I felt when trying to "witness" to someone when I was a teenager, and they looked at me like I had just sprouted purple mushrooms from my head. That was a landmark moment for me.

[ReasonQuest]

marmot, I can relate so much to your story. I felt like I was reading much of my own. My wife and I met at our church while in college. 15 years later after kids, cross country move, trying to find a church where we fit in and everybody wasn't crazy, we just stopped going. After I totally figured out that natural explainations for things were more probable than supernatural explainations, I kept it to myself since we were not going to church and I didn't want to make waves. Then grandparents wanted to show our kids videos about Intellegent Design, and I started telling my wife how stupid ID is, and how I accept evolution. These conversations led to her eventually asking me if I still was a Christian. I told her that I wasn't and that I no longer hold any supernatural views. I had her watch Letting Go Of God, and watch some videos from Daniel Dennett and Bart Ehrman, and within 3 days she was an atheist. If you tell your wife (who sounds like she will be cool) just emphasize that you are still the same loving, compasionate, curious person you have always been, but you just don't see any evidence that your consiousness will survive the death of your brain, so you want to get on with maiking this one life you will have the best it can be. I think the longer you wait she could feel like you were keeping something from her. My wife felt that way a little.

 

RQ

[marmot]

RQ, I just read through your extimony again and found that your story was the one that inspired me to register back on December 1st! I was not yet an agnostic yet at that point but I was strongly leaning towards it.

 

To steal a bit of your extimony:

 

But, I kept this to myself. There was no need to push the issue. We weren’t going to church, and it really wasn’t coming up. If we prayed before meals, I’d say something like “May we be thankful for this food and our family,” but never say Jesus or God.

 

I still felt pressure to not come out about not believing mostly due to not knowing what the reaction would be from my mom and sister, and also my wife. She is laid back, but I was worried she could all the sudden get very serious again about her faith as a reaction to the news, and start bringing the kids back to church. You never know.

 

I feel this exact same way. I love my wife so much and we are so happy right now. We don't go to church or pray or talk about God and we are very liberal. My wife has a fundamentalist family and was homeschooled so I am scared that somehow I would spark her to run back to that as a reaction. I love her so much and it would make me sad if this happened.

 

I am going to continue to hold steady and be opportunistic about picking a good time to tell her, be it next month or in another year. The one place I draw a line in the sand is that I will tell her before we have children (2-8 years?). I refuse to allow my children to be indoctrinated and I will tell her such if that comes up.

 

All in all I think she will be understanding when I tell her and possibly even in time come over to the dark side. I hope that by waiting as I continue to sort this out in my head, and as I gather more evidence (I just got a book on archaeology and the Bible, and she is starting to read Guns, Germs and Steel), that she will react more favorably.

[3DollarBill]

Welcome to the real world. This site is basically my new church...only the people here don't judge each other relentlessly and the webmaster doesn't demand 10% of my income. A vast improvement if you ask me!

[TrueFreedom]

I appreciate your testimony, marmot. It sounds like your wife might reach the same conclusions on her own eventually.

[ReasonQuest]

marmot, thanks for the positive thoughts. I just started getting back on the site after being gone for while since just after I posted my eximony. Thinks are going great with my wife. I'd agree that you should just be yourself, and if the topic of faith isn't really coming up with your wife, no reason to create a problem where it doesn't exist.

 

I think the thing I can most relate to in your story is always feeling wierd about the certainty of other Christains who wanted to evangelize. I always had this awareness of how crazy non Christains thought the more pushy Christians were. I've always been the type of person who sits back and observes things before giving my opinion, and was never someone to preach to other people. I think the more people voice their beliefs to others, the more they might feel like they can't change their position. Even while I was a Christain I always held a certain level of skepticism.

[marmot]

This is probably the last time I revive this thread from the dead (until I quit my job in a few years).

 

I was on a camping trip up in the mountains with my wife a couple of weeks ago. While we were laying in the tent in the middle of the remote wilderness she asked me, "do you ever pray anymore?"

 

I told her, "no, not really." She asked why not and I told her I wasn't interested in Christianity anymore.

 

She asked if I was just talking about the church and the culture (which she knew I had been disenchanted with for the last couple of years) or if it was Christianity itself. I told her it was both -- I was sick of the church and I also did not believe in the supernatural, either.

 

She was a little surprised but she had seen some of the books I had been reading earlier this year (mostly Bart Ehrman). She said she wanted to know what was going on in my head about these kinds of things and I told her that I am happy to share if she asks but I don't always want to share unsolicited.

 

I told her about how when we first started dating I felt "holier" than her and that she was not Christian enough for me. Mostly, this meant that she did not talk about her faith very often at all and she also drank and smoked marijuana/a cigarette once in a blue moon. She was also willing to be partially active sexually. I almost decided to break up with her because of it before I came to my senses and realized how amazing of a woman she is and that it would be ludicrous to leave her because she might not have the exact state of mind as me about the creator of our universe. From then on I vowed to myself that my faith was my own and hers was hers, and it wasn't my business to try to tell her what to believe.

 

Well, that sword cut two ways. When I started having doubts this last year about the supernatural foundations of my faith as well as the Bible, I didn't want to share with her because I didn't want to influence her beliefs. If she started questioning and moving to the same place as I was then I was happy to open up and tell her about my thoughts, but if she wasn't ready for this journey then I didn't want to force it on her.

 

Well, she did finally start asking about it in the tent. I talked her through some of the basic tenets of the Bart Ehrman books I have read (mostly about how the Gospels each has a distinct character and they are different, how some of the Epistles were forged or mistakenly attributed, how there are all kinds of insertions and errors). I told her my biggest problem was the theodicy -- how could an all loving God create life on one planet near one star out of hundreds of billions in our galaxy, and our galaxy out of all the billions of galaxies? Then, he is mostly interested in choosing a band of bronze age herdsmen and helping them commit genocide and setting up arcane ritual laws about dress and food.

 

I also asked her how many books she read in the last year. She has read over 100 (yes, she is a nerd and I love it). I asked her how many were written by the creator of the universe. Then I asked her how many times she had read the book written by the creator of the universe (the answer was none). Strange, isn't it? God takes the time to write us a book with a couple of thrilling stories and good moral stories, but mostly filled with jealous and OCD rantings?

 

I think it was a lot to process, and we talked about it off and on for the next couple days as we completed our trip through the mountains. She really didn't ask me at all about what I believed, she just wanted to know about the information I was learning about. She found it all very interesting and edifying. She expressed to me that she had taken a class on Opression and the Bible in college and it was the first time she had ever approached the Bible like a piece of literature, and she was interested in reading more about how the Bible came to be/the history of the Church.

 

We bought a book on our Kindle on the way home (it was a long drive) and we read a pretty good chunk of it. It is called "The Bible Unearthed". I had wanted to buy it for a while and I decided this was as good a time as any. She read it out loud to me as I drove and we explored how archaeological and historical records interact with the Hebrew Bible (OT). I also put a Bart Ehrman book on reserve at the library for her.

 

As far as our relationship goes, it is almost unchanged. If anything, we are a little closer now because I have bared my soul to her now in a way I had not before. She has no problem with my apostasy whatsoever. I am not sure if she would call herself a non-Christian yet but I think she will probably get there if she wants to do the research and thinking.

 

I feel at peace now about my situation (except for the fact that I am still employed at a Christian workplace). I asked her what she thought about it and she told me that it is not an ideal situation but to not quit unless I had another job lined up. She knows I will never work at a place like this again but she is in professional school right now so I need to support us.

 

Thanks everyone for all your kind thoughts; it has been comforting to have this place to unwind and process thoughts.

[TrueFreedom]

That's awesome, marmot. I'm happy for you two. Thanks for sharing.

[FeelHappy]

I also asked her how many books she read in the last year. She has read over 100 (yes, she is a nerd and I love it). I asked her how many were written by the creator of the universe. Then I asked her how many times she had read the book written by the creator of the universe (the answer was none). Strange, isn't it? God takes the time to write us a book with a couple of thrilling stories and good moral stories, but mostly filled with jealous and OCD rantings?

 

 

I mention this a bunch when someone talks to me about the bible as the word of god. I'll say 'I've read the bible front to back 5 times, how many times have you', they'll always respond with reading the new testament or parts of it, which brings up the fact that if they actually think this is the word of god, perhaps they should attempt to read it at least once....of course if they did that it would cause some major faith problems.

[marmot]

That's awesome, marmot. I'm happy for you two. Thanks for sharing.

 

Thanks for the kind words! I'm thrilled as well.

 

 

I mention this a bunch when someone talks to me about the bible as the word of god. I'll say 'I've read the bible front to back 5 times, how many times have you', they'll always respond with reading the new testament or parts of it, which brings up the fact that if they actually think this is the word of god, perhaps they should attempt to read it at least once....of course if they did that it would cause some major faith problems.

 

I think I originally saw someone on here mention that little observation...don't remember for sure. Glad you use it as well!

[LifeCycle]

Excellent "extimony" as it's being called. I'm in the same boat with my wife... She's just like yours... but hotter. Just KIDDING! There's no way I'd even know that. It's a joke, and I'm weird. So just laugh.

 

Anyways.... I fear the same thing... That speaking to her about it all would trigger some sort of re-fucking-christian-commitment that would only damage our relationship and I really just don't want to risk it. I'm still way into the early stages (a couple of weeks) of my deconversion so this issue is something I ponder quite often. We don't attend church anywhere, don't express a desire to, don't talk about God etc... So it's really best to not even bring it up.

 

Anyway, great story and good read. Thanks.

[freeasabird]

Good to hear about another step of forward progress. I'm really rooting for you!