Practicing Death

[Margee]

No, I'm not going to hurt myself. I'm too nosy to want to know what's around the corner to leave this earth just yet.

 

One of the hardest issues I had to face in the last while as I admit to myself and you on the board that I now consider myself an atheist is the issue of letting go of the ego at death. Of course, I understand that nothing can be completely proved as yet, to what actually happens after death. But I am convinced (for now) for me, that it's probably going to be 'nothingness'. I've watched far too many documentaries on how the  earth formed after the big bang. I watched the billions years of what the earth had to go through before the beginning of man and it's not a pretty story. The earth has gone through a lot of fire and ice to become what it is today. It was a 'bake and freeze' deal for billions of years to form what is now the pretty 'blue ball' called earth.

 

Anyway, I had to let go of the idea of  an 'afterlife' for me. That was one of the hardest parts in my deconverting story. That was always the thing that kept me going in life......that after we got through all our trials and tribulations, we would joyfully meet our loved ones on 'the other side'. I do not believe that anymore and am coming to acceptance and becoming comfortable with it. But I've had to work through a lot.

 

I cannot even fathom how I was born into a human being and 'borned' to walk this planet and would become a fully conscious human being with an ego that would become who I am. I never asked to come here, but here I am, whether I like it or not. This person who I am, with a full, conscious identity.

 

My whole identity is in this 'ego' and I had the hardest time giving up the ideas that in a very short time...nobody would ever know I was here. I have worked in journals and planned my whole funeral, etc., to help me accept my mortality and that someday, I will just be another person who walked on earth.

 

One of the things I have been doing in the past month is 'practising death' at bedtime. Just before I fall asleep, I tell myself this is what it's going to be like when your dead. Besides of dreaming of a purple monster every now and again, I do not know I am asleep..I know nothing - I remember nothing - I don't feel time pass away - I don't know who I am -  I don't have a career - I don't know that I have any bills to pay - I don't have a name - I don't own a house -  a family or any type of ego when I'm sound asleep. I don't even know I'm alive until the alarm clock wakes me up in the morning. You could stand over me and kill me and I wouldn't try to fight you because I don't even know you're there. And I won't even remember that I posted for 3 years on my favorite site; EX-c. Isn't that weird?? I don't remember anything when I'm asleep. I am in a 'nothingness' state.

 

So I don't think that death will bother me too much now. This has all been part of my deconverting. I think I am facing reality now. 

 

So I think it's time to start having some fun here on earth and maybe lighten up a little? (I'm lecturing to myself of course!!) Lol 

 

Want do you think?

 

*hugs* to all.

[kolaida]

*Hugs*  

 

I understand that feeling. For what's it worth, I sometimes go to places and close my eyes and imagine how prior humans passed through the area, the generation, time, etc and how they're ashes or some parts of them are probably part of the earth or somewhere in the universe. I like to think in the future other people will imagine their ancestors in some fashion.  I also like that I will be part of the "Information Age" in the human history timeline so far and that is SO much better than the "Dark Ages" in my opinion! So even if my name won't be remembered specifically, I'm glad I'm at least part of a rather progressive part of history. 

 

I also think there will be nothingness when I die, I don't think anything will happen ever again and it is kind of a relief in some aspects (I was always terrified of spending eternity with my mother) and sad in others (I really wanted to believe I'd be a butterfly or cheetah one day). But I am okay with decomposing and becoming part of the earth or being ash in the wind.

 

I agree, it's time for you to start having fun on earth!!!!!  

 

And if practicing death makes you feel more at peace and generally happier with your life, I say keep at it!!   Hugs and love to you!  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Margee, sorry about the purple monster thing.  It happens whenever I dream about you.  I've tried to present myself as something else, like a young handsome prince, but my id keeps getting in the way.  Anyway, believe me when I tell you, the purple monster is an up-grade to the real me, at least.

 

Whenever I think about death, I always remember your signature about the star dust.  I like it.

[Blake]

I feel you, Margee... I like to think that although we are, universally, just a nanosecond in time, on a tiny blue dot in an incomprehensibly large universe, we somehow got this chance to be alive. The very same perception you experience when you close your eyes at night and ponder death is an amazing thing, because when we insignificantly small human beings perceive anything at all, it is the first time, universally speaking, that perception of this scale happened at all. In other words, we humans are the universe becoming aware of itself. After billions of years, an ordered structure finally came to be with cognitive function... a life force was developed which could know, perceive, remember, ponder, and reason. Feel. Believe. Have hopes and dreams. Although we will take all of it to the grave with us, we are the first to bring it to life in this way. Billions of years in the making, here we are. 

 

We all go to the grave equally privileged. At the end of the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box. So by all means, have fun. How you spend your time on this Earth is up to you. All these peripheral things people tell you are necessary to obtain while you're here (whether they be money, degrees, jobs, cars, titles, deeds, children, so on) have nothing to do with what you desire your time here to mean.

 

You may like the Mark Twain quote "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience."

 

Bless you Margee. I feel like we're kindred spirits.

[Margee]

Margee, sorry about the purple monster thing.  It happens whenever I dream about you.  I've tried to present myself as something else, like a young handsome prince, but my id keeps getting in the way.  Anyway, believe me when I tell you, the purple monster is an up-grade to the real me, at least.

 

Whenever I think about death, I always remember your signature about the star dust.  I like it.

So you're the purple monster??? You friggin brat!!!

 

I do love the concept of stardust, because we are all born from stardust. Maybe we have some kind of connection to each other because of this??

[Vigile]

It used to really bother me that I would someday not exist.  Perhaps because I've contemplated my own death so much due to my kidney disease I no longer feel anything about it.  I'm not so sure that's a good thing.  I think it probably means I'm jaded. 

[Margee]

It used to really bother me that I would someday not exist.  Perhaps because I've contemplated my own death so much due to my kidney disease I no longer feel anything about it.  I'm not so sure that's a good thing.  I think it probably means I'm jaded. 

Vigile, I could be wrong, but you strike me as the type of person who makes the most of everyday even with your kidney disease. If I am right in this.....you, my friend, are on the right track. None of us really even knows if we'll be alive at the end of this day??

[Vigile]

I don't know Margee.  I've done a lot in my life, but most days I think I waste.  I appreciate your sentiment though and more importantly, I appreciate you. 

[Margee]

I don't know Margee.  I've done a lot in my life, but most days I think I waste.  I appreciate your sentiment though and more importantly, I appreciate you. 

 

You don't know how much you just made my day dear friend!! It doesn't take much to make this narcissist woman happy!! Lol 

 

Keep on truckin' my friend. I also appreciate you!!

 

Thanks buddy!!

huge *hug*

[amateur]

To me it's just extremely wild that I get to be alive at all.  When it ends, it ends, but I had a chance to be here!  I still can't imagine how I got so lucky to be here for even one minute, let alone the years I've had already.

 

Coming from a family of agnostics that mostly died when I was pretty young, I never imagined I'd see them again in "heaven."  I remember women talking in church about how happy they'd be to see their sweet grandma again someday in heaven.  I never even opened my mouth during those conversations, because I knew they'd all give me the xian pity look when they found out my grandmothers were burning in hell, deservedly so (well, according to them, I'm sure my grandmothers didn't deserve that).

 

But my grandmothers got to be here (one leading a rather sad life with abandonment, abuse, and death of children) as well as everyone else, and there are some sublime and beautiful moments in life we all get to experience that we just need to appreciate and hold on to.

 

I think what bugs me most about dying is that I want to know the rest of the story, and after I die the story will continue without me.  Blah!

 

I decided to listen to one of my elderly lady clients.  We got talking about the end of the world when that whole Mayan thing was going on.  She said to me, "I always figured the world would end when I died!"

 

PS  Margee, when I'm feeling down I think about death a lot.  A lot.  When I'm having a good time and enjoying life, the thought of dying never even crosses my mind.  I know it's hard, I know even thinking about something fun is hard, let alone doing something fun, but after what we wrote in that other post about please try hard to even take some baby steps towards something fun for you.  You deserve it; you are such a good person.

[pawn]

I don't bother thinking about death. I spent years as a spiritual religious seeker contemplating death. Screw that, I'm done with it! I don't think about death, because I'm too busy living.

 

My cat doesn't think about death, the squirrel on my deck doesnt think about death, us humans are the only species that can contemplate our own mortality. But that doesn't mean it's useful, I think it's just silly, but then again I've already spent countless hours of my life thinking about death and spirituality, so I guess it had some purpose in my past.

 

Now I am more like the cat or the squirrel, too busy living to think about dying.

 

Mmmm , that's good coffee. Mmmm, my wife looks sexy today. Mmm, maybe go for a walk in the sun later with my daughters. Maybe hit the gym later and pump some iron, mmmm what's for dinner? Gotta go the grocery store.

[Margee]

I don't bother thinking about death. I spent years as a spiritual religious seeker contemplating death. Screw that, I'm done with it! I don't think about death, because I'm too busy living.

 

My cat doesn't think about death, the squirrel on my deck doesnt think about death, us humans are the only species that can contemplate our own mortality. But that doesn't mean it's useful, I think it's just silly, but then again I've already spent countless hours of my life thinking about death and spirituality, so I guess it had some purpose in my past.

 

Now I am more like the cat or the squirrel, too busy living to think about dying.

 

Mmmm , that's good coffee. Mmmm, my wife looks sexy today. Mmm, maybe go for a walk in the sun later with my daughters. Maybe hit the gym later and pump some iron, mmmm what's for dinner? Gotta go the grocery store.

 

     Right on brother!!

[Vigile]

I don't bother thinking about death. I spent years as a spiritual religious seeker contemplating death. Screw that, I'm done with it! I don't think about death, because I'm too busy living.

 

My cat doesn't think about death, the squirrel on my deck doesnt think about death, us humans are the only species that can contemplate our own mortality. But that doesn't mean it's useful, I think it's just silly, but then again I've already spent countless hours of my life thinking about death and spirituality, so I guess it had some purpose in my past.

 

Now I am more like the cat or the squirrel, too busy living to think about dying.

 

Mmmm , that's good coffee. Mmmm, my wife looks sexy today. Mmm, maybe go for a walk in the sun later with my daughters. Maybe hit the gym later and pump some iron, mmmm what's for dinner? Gotta go the grocery store.

 

Sounds healthy. 

[par4dcourse]

This sums it up for me

 

 

"Death does not concern us, for as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist."--Epicurus

[Positivist]

Hey Margee!!

 

I have always struggled with the notion of an afterlife. My first problem with the afterlife is "Where does it occur?" Since we've explored below the earth and around the universe, there is no physical location for such a place. My second problem is an embarrassing one: I don't like gold (streets of gold? No thanks). Neither do I want a mansion. Heaven to me would be eternally camping in a tent on a mountain. Sadly, camping is not an option in the Christian heaven.

 

Since becoming an atheist and exploring different traditions around death and afterlife, I realize that people, because they possess consciousness, fear the unknown, including death (the biggest unknown). So, they make up stories to appease the dying (and the living).

 

As an atheist I have tremendous peace about just being nothing when I die and my body being munched on by worms. I have no problem with that. My experience being dead will be just like my experience before I was conceived and/or born......which wasn't too bad at all.

 

However, if it turns out I'm wrong and our consciousness persists, I'll look you up and we'll party. How does that sound?

[Margee]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate you all contributing to this post. Some really good things have been said here. This whole death thing has been a big bone of contention for me. I admit to the whole damn world that I'm a control freak.

I can't stand the thought that I have no say in dying!!!

 

I think I'm a lot like amature....I want to see what's going to happen to this place. And besides...I'm just getting it in life!! I wouldn't have dreamt in a million years that I could learn so damn much as I have on this board since 2010. Ok...I'm sorry...I'm just screaming out my anger that I spent so much wasted time in church giving them money!! I want to live to see religion die!! I want to buy a flying vehicle someday like the 'Jetsons'! And I won't be here for it. I'll probably grumble about this to the day I die.   What a rip-off!!

 

Yes, yes, yes, I'll try to be grateful that I lived to see the day when I could talk to my husband on the other side of Canada right here on the computer screen. But I still want to fly a vehicle up into the sky with Positivist........

 

Tell me some of your predictions for the future....maybe that will satisfy me.........

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Or, you could look at it from a different perspective.

 

Think for a moment on the extra-ordinary improbability of your existence, out of the entirety of human potential. It took hundreds of your mother's eggs and billions of your father's sperm to come up with the one fusion of gametes that would ultimately become you. Even in that very event, had a different cell fused with the egg, you would not be here. Consider also that the same improbable odds led to the existence of your parents, compounding the unlikelihood of "you" exponentially . Think of all the people who could have existed during the 100,000 or so years of modern human history, but never did; and of all the ones who have the potential to exist over the next several odd millennia, but won't. Imagine that just one of your ancestors, crawling out of a cave 22,147 years ago, had a chance meeting with a hungry predator that ended tragically: you might not have had the privilege of calling yourself a member of the human race. It is a humbling honor to be amongst the living.

 

And I am honored to know you, Margee.

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Margee.  I have always thought that the concept of an eternity in heaven makes life far less significant.  Think about why gold and certain jewels are so valuable and we prize them as we do.  The reason for their value is that they are so rare and precious.  If we lived in heaven forever then our lives here on planet Earth are of little significance.  It is not precious like gold or fine jewels because it is abundant.  I think this is one reason why governments can get away with sending twenty year olds off to fight wars to kill and be killed.  So long as people believe in heaven, then the life we now have is something that is dispensible.  I think that taking the perspective that there is no afterlife, puts life in its proper perspective.  It is precious and we must live it to its fullest and not be so quick to snuff out the lives of our fellow human beings.

 

It sounds like you are making good progress.  Keep up the good work!!

[Margee]

Or, you could look at it from a different perspective.

 

Think for a moment on the extra-ordinary improbability of your existence, out of the entirety of human potential. It took hundreds of your mother's eggs and billions of your father's sperm to come up with the one fusion of gametes that would ultimately become you. Even in that very event, had a different cell fused with the egg, you would not be here. Consider also that the same improbable odds led to the existence of your parents, compounding the unlikelihood of "you" exponentially . Think of all the people who could have existed during the 100,000 or so years of modern human history, but never did; and of all the ones who have the potential to exist over the next several odd millennia, but won't. Imagine that just one of your ancestors, crawling out of a cave 22,147 years ago, had a chance meeting with a hungry predator that ended tragically: you might not have had the privilege of calling yourself a member of the human race. It is a humbling honor to be amongst the living.

 

And I am honored to know you, Margee.

 

Redneck, this is an awesome way of looking at things. You are absolutely right!! It's quite a miracle that we are here and get to experience life. I guess I am happy that I was born. I'll try to make the most of it now that I know there's no afterlife. Thank you for your great knowledge. I really appreciate it.

 

And it is also an honor to know you!!

[Brother Jeff]

I have struggled a lot with this issue too. When I realized that the belief in heaven I had been sold for so many years was just an ancient myth, I was ANGRY! I have had so many struggles in life and so much hell from my bipolar illness that I was really looking forward to eternity in heaven! I longed for it. I didn't want to die, but I wanted heaven badly! God was going to make everything okay and I would live in JOY forever. I held onto that belief strongly until I had no choice but to let it go. It was probably the most painful part of my deconversion. Now I know that there is no loving god and no afterlife, and I have become okay with it. Life is an incredibly wonderful and precious thing, and we shouldn't waste a second of it worrying about something we cannot change, which is death.

 

I am planning to be cremated. I would rather be ashes than be eaten by worms, though I would never know about being dead or the worms. It just sounds better to be ashes after I am gone.

[Ro-bear]

Immortality is overrated.  Lincoln probably rests no better than any other Joe Schmoe.  I think just by living as a human being you've attained a rare status from a universal perspective.  There will never be another you.  If other people, present and future, don't know what they are missing it does not detract from your awesomeness.

[RipVanWinkle]

Margee:

You know, I hope I offend nobody by saying this, but of all the members here, I feel as thought know you best as a personal friend. And I don't feel like I am alone in this. Your kind nature just permeates every post you make. We are all lucky that you are a member here. I'll bet I speak for everybody. And you call yourself a narcissist! Not!

 

As to death, it bothered me more when I was young than it does now. Don't worry about what you may miss, because you won't know you missed it. It is not being dead that hurts but living. Most of living is boring, some is fun and the rest is painful. It varies person to person as to how it is divided, of course..

 

I'm sure this sounds depressing, but really, if there is life after death for eternity, I hope it is completely different than life as I have experienced it. Not because I have hated life, but because, if I thought that I would have the same kind of life that I have had on earth through eternity, I think I would go crazy. The mundane for eternity! On another day I may feel differently, but that's how I feel now. My mother in law who died a couple of years ago said a few weeks before she died, "enough is enough". And she had a wonderful life, but knew when to call it quits. Just make sure you've squeezed all the juice out of life before you go.                                                                                                                                                                                                  bill

[WaitingInfinity]

I have existential fears from time to time too. And I too have thought about the nothingness that comes from death. But sometimes, I just remind myself that I won't know I'm dead, just like I don't know the moment I go to sleep once I am asleep. 

 

I think the worst thing about no afterlife is being separated from the man I love more than anything. One day I looked over at him and I said, "You know, us being together, one of us is probably going to have to watch the other one die and live without them." And he said, "I know." And this torments me to no end. I love him more than anything on this earth and I don't want to be without him and I don't want him to be without me. I'm just afraid to be without him one day, to the point that I weep when I think too much about it. That's why I'm an agnostic still. I hope so badly for some sort of good afterlife where souls or people can still interact. No heaven and no hell. Just a place of goodness and love. A place where our two souls can just dance forever. The perfect afterlife would be the two of us enjoying each other's company, not serving some God or burning in hell. It's wishful thinking really, but it's the only thing to calm that fear, that panic I get when I think about not being with him.

[Margee]

I just have to tell you guys that I think you're all awesome and I couldn't make it without any of you. If anything in my life that I am truly grateful for is the members on this board who help each other out so much. I'm in a mushy mood right now and want to tell you all...I love you guys...you truly are the best!!

 

*hugs* to everyone of you today....