Idontevenknow99 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Coming up in Christian faith and culture, many of us were conditioned, taught, persuaded to think formulaic thoughts; taught prejudices and so forth. When faced with another person of a different denomination or religion, it may have been hard to find common ground, the natural disagreements, and even with lgbtq people--an obvious hatred and misunderstanding there. Even in the secular world do these prejudices exist, it's not just religious people. Heterosexuality is seen as good. Homosexuality is seen as bad. I remember when I was a junior in high shool. I had a mentor I looked up to. She was very smart, sweet, and for a high school student, saw that she was the most dedicated believer if there ever was one. She was a year ahead of me, and before she graduated, she was president of the Bible Club. Anyway, there was another girl in the bible club who was your average "Paostor's kid." In my narrow-mindedness, I just knew that she wasn't, or at least didn't appear to be as serious or dedicated to god than the person I just mentioned above. I used to think in terms of who was more "saved" I guess. What really fascinated me, though, was Pastor kid's (PK) personality. She was a tomboy and would be seen hovering over the gay/bisexual girls in school. She was even seen with a girl sitting on her lap in a non-platonic way. When my then mentor found out, she sort of indirectly addressed it but made it into a warning, like a mother would do to a child if she caught it sneaking into a cookie jar. I'm assuming PK at some point told my mentor that she must have been having "homosexual urges." Perhaps she found out, but I'll never know for sure. Many closeted LGBT people tend to be good at hiding their sexuality so that you would never have thought the girliest girl in school is a lesbian. I only knew that she was a bit of a tomboy. I never thought that she might have liked girls until my mentor brought it up and the one occasion when I saw her with the girl sitting on her lap. Maybe it has something to do with the erasure of same-sex relationships mixed with the bible's so-called take on homosexuality. So when it was a possibility that she might have been attraced to girls, I had felt like figuratively shaking my finger at her would help the situation. It's like once homophobic people discover that someone might be gay, you suddenly turn off that switch that says "this is a normal person just like anybody else" if you get what I mean. It suddenly turns into, they either need to be confronted, or they need not be confronted since the situation will blow up in their face that they might see the error of their ways, a common disciplinary action in Christianity and even society. Because lesbianism is soooo wrong. The point I'm trying to make has to deal with me seeing her completely out of the closet for the first time. I haven't seen or spoken to PK in person since high school, which was about two or three years ago. I've seen her Facebook page, and she is clearly lesbian. After seeing her picture, I kind of fell into the flawed belief that this can't be real. I saw another post recently by user HenryCD who said though his brain knew Christianity was false, he still felt that Satanism was a plague on the Christian faith and whatnot. I'm realizing that this happens a lot. When you know for sure that something is wrong, or in this case I know that there is nothing wrong with not being heterosexual, I was so conditioned to see a former Christian (I think she's an ex-Christian) and when that image wasn't there, I kind of snapped into this judgmental thinking pattern. I feel so stupid. Any advice on how to deprogram this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My uncle is gay and so I've had to deal with this. Thankfully, as a Christian, I had enough sense not to isolate him because of his perceived sins. Since deconverting, I've been around his friends on a few occasions. Surprisingly, they were just regular people - actually much kinder than a lot of straight folk because they've been through so much pain themselves. My advice would be to interact with some healthy gay people and gay accepting straights. I'm willing to bet the problem with solve itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My uncle is gay and so I've had to deal with this. Thankfully, as a Christian, I had enough sense not to isolate him because of his perceived sins. Since deconverting, I've been around his friends on a few occasions. Surprisingly, they were just regular people - actually much kinder than a lot of straight folk because they've been through so much pain themselves. My advice would be to interact with some healthy gay people and gay accepting straights. I'm willing to bet the problem with solve itself. My favorite people are gay folk. My roommate is gay. My best friend is a lesbian. In fact, she was raised Mormon, and she has been able to leave religion behind her very easily (or at least it seems from the outside), something I still struggle to do and I had no where near the childhood she had. I learn a lot from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I could never figure out, when I was a Christian fundamentalist, why the Blood of Christ was apparently powerless when it came to homosexuality. The whole sin forgiveness grace thing is an obvious contradiction and that becomes even more obvious when it involves homosexuality. Sinners are supposedly saved by faith thru the grace of god not by works, BUT they have to stop being slaves to sin and or living in sin whatever that means. Whatever sin or sins heterosexual believers struggled with obviously continue to be a problem after they were saved. Those ongoing struggles were not, however, interpreted as either living in sin nor were they considered to be slaves to sin becasue they were under "grace". That obvious incongruity did not apply to homosexuals who had accepted Christ as their Savior. They were required to stop sinning period, at least they could not have sex. I never heard it actually addressed so I don’t know if they were “allowed” to have sexual thoughts or desires, but probably not. Clearly they were not under "grace", they apparently continued to be under law. They were required to “earn” their salvation by abstaining from same sex intercourse. They were required to be celibate the rest of their lives, or marry an opposite sex partner, and “learn” to have “normal” sex in order to retain their saved status, but that of course was never interpreted as “earning” their salvation by works. None of that of course would be interpreted as homophobic by any Christian I ever knew, becasue that is just the way god said it should be in the good book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted December 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted December 28, 2013 Geezer, SilentLoner posted this awhile ago (I missed it somehow?) and I can't believe the thread didn't take off because the message is so strong in this 20 minute, very sad video. It's worth the watch. I cried because my boy had to go through all Kinds of shit during his life (getting beat up, made fun of, etc..) until I convinced him that he was normal and to hold his head up high. Even as a strong Christian, I truly believed in my heart that god would have mercy on these dear ones. In the bible, along with 'sex sin' it also states rules about wild partying, envy, anger, gossiping, etc. It doesn't say that 'sex sin' is the number one offender. So if one of my Christian friends (or myself for that matter) gossiped about someone, we were also taking our chances that we would not see 'The kingdom of heaven'. This is what I had to explain to my boy. My whole life as a hairdresser was spent with the most wonderful 'gay' people in the world. I don't know where the word 'gay' came from because these beautiful people suffered so bad because of prejudice and religion. My best friend (cousin) was gay. I never had so much fun in my whole life. He died not long ago. I wouldn't trade growing up with him for anything. Watch this short documentary....I'm sure it will help. *hug* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 28, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted December 28, 2013 I know I missed out on a lot of relationships with otherwise good people on account of being taught how to judge a person within five minutes of meeting them. I'm so glad I learned how to withhold judgement until actually getting to know a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My uncle is gay and so I've had to deal with this. Thankfully, as a Christian, I had enough sense not to isolate him because of his perceived sins. Since deconverting, I've been around his friends on a few occasions. Surprisingly, they were just regular people - actually much kinder than a lot of straight folk because they've been through so much pain themselves. My advice would be to interact with some healthy gay people and gay accepting straights. I'm willing to bet the problem with solve itself. My favorite people are gay folk. My roommate is gay. My best friend is a lesbian. In fact, she was raised Mormon, and she has been able to leave religion behind her very easily (or at least it seems from the outside), something I still struggle to do and I had no where near the childhood she had. I learn a lot from her. Yeah, I agree. Once you've known and made friends with a few cool gay people, it's easy. I grew up knowing a few gay people that happened to be very nice, so I never had much of a problem with them. Later on, in my "born again" phase, I believed that it was a sin, but I still didn't have a problem with gays, because I figured "all have fallen short", I was a very liberal Christian, I figured we are ALL sinners, and we are ALL saved by grace. Now I am just an atheist, and I want homosexuals to have as much sex and fun as possible. I always loved sex, and now I have a totally libertarian attitude towards sex.... If it's consensual, and nobody gets hurt.... It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Any advice on how to deprogram this? You've already taken the first steps! You recognize that there is not an issue. My advice - connect with her again. If she's local, ask her out to lunch or something. Get to know her as a person. If the subject comes up, ask her what it was like growing up without being able to be honest about who she is. I think you'll find that her journey was not unlike a lot of people here who have to hide the fact that they aren't Christian. I guess I'm just advocating treating her like a normal person. That's really how we want Christians to treat us, yeah? And who knows? You might become really good friends! And if not, you have lost nothing by trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The Bible is so wrong about sex. According to the actual Bible women are property. The is no consent in the Bible. A man can own as many sex slaves as he can afford. The Bible doesn't prohibit adults from having sex with children. So start with the realization that the Bible is wrong about sex. The right thing about sex; what makes sex legitimate is informed consent. Everybody participating must understand what they are doing and what is at risk. That means they must be old enough to understand and they must have the mental ability to agree (not drunk or unconscious). So you are going to have to accept that other adults have their own business in the privacy of their own home. Chew on it a while and you will get use to it. It takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 ...That means they must be old enough to understand and they must have the mental ability to agree (not drunk or unconscious). So you are going to have to accept that other adults have their own business in the privacy of their own home. I grew up in a religion that abhorred any sex that was not the "missionary position." People are weird. It's no one's business but the people involved. It baffles me why gay sex is even an issue in today's world. It's as stupid as shunning interracial relationships. Can't we move on to something that matters, like say why the US is so war happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Slave2six said, "My advice - connect with her again. If she's local, ask her out to lunch or something. Get to know her as a person. If the subject comes up, ask her what it was like growing up without being able to be honest about who she is. I think you'll find that her journey was not unlike a lot of people here who have to hide the fact that they aren't Christian." Very good advice. And your thoughts on hiding it are right on. Gay people who were raised in an anti-homosexuality Christian home have two coming outs - one for their religion and one for their sexuality. I can't imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 When you know for sure that something is wrong, or in this case I know that there is nothing wrong with not being heterosexual, I was so conditioned to see a former Christian (I think she's an ex-Christian) and when that image wasn't there, I kind of snapped into this judgmental thinking pattern. I feel so stupid. Any advice on how to deprogram this? When multiple parts of my brain contend I do my best to consider the form of the contention. In your case your christian mind is still active, so there are two things to do. One is to ignore the christian mind until it dies away, and the other is to address your mind itself by sitting down and just reflecting on your thoughts, feelings, memories and intuitions. I oft find doing so allows a natural sense of closure, even if I never actually get to the bottom of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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