Good News! All Former Christians Are Still Christians And Going To Heaven

[Guest]

So in a recent sermon I heard on the radio, the pastor from this particular church declared that he subscribed to the belief "once saved, always saved" - in other words we can't do anything to undo our salvation.  He supports this belief (with scripture, of course) because he focuses on how salvation is about what Jesus does - not what we do.  So once God has bestowed the gift of grace upon you and you have accepted it, there is no going back - because God does not go back on his promises. You are His forever. That means for those of us deconverting, the fear of Hell - even if its just an annoying little tickle in the back of the brain once in awhile- should be off the radar now.  Once saved, always saved - even if you are now a declared atheist. (Admittedly strange).  There was of course, one little caveat:  you had to have been a "REAL TRUE Christian" at the time of your salvation. Naturally, there is no agreement on what a "real" Christian is - even though the only thing it takes to become a Christian - to be saved -  is to genuinely believe, ask forgiveness, ask "Jesus into your heart." To sustain your faith (acting like a good Christian) doesn't count toward salvation (at least among the fundamentalists I know).  Like the bumper sticker says:  Christians aren't perfect, just saved. 

In talking about the "once saved, always saved" concept with a friend, I asked, how does one explain the large number of deconverted - that have been that way for years?  Answer:  they are in a state of rebellion.  Its temporary -even if its years.  Okay.  So maybe on our death-beds we will see the light again and return to our faith?  Whatever.  But for now I can continue on my deconverting journey while my fellow Christian friends struggle with the cognitive dissonance that anyone with a half a brain who actually reads the bible must surely experience.  Either way we will all end up in the same place.  And in a twisted way I might one day be able to use the "once saved, always saved" argument to keep family off my back (and not worried about my soul) if and when I come out as a non-believer.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I would like to use this when I come out to my family, who will think I am going to hell.  I'd like to know which bible verse(s) support this doctrine.

[DoubtingNate]

It's kinda tied in with predestination. Either are chosen or you are not.. You can't do anything to be saved, or un-saved. If you are chosen, the Holy Spirit is activated within you to make you understand scripture and the depths of your own wretchedness before Gods holiness. Without the HS we can't understand any of it, and we are just blind and dead. None of us has a say in any of this. We are currency in a bank transaction between God the Father and Jesus... Or lifeless clay in the hands of a divine potter who can create vessels for his glory or wrath, based on his pleasure.

 

Whatever the fuck that means to anyone who stops believing... I guess either we were never chosen, or we are rebelling and will just barely escape hellfire on a technicality.

 

So yeah.. Calvinism.. It's such a joyful religion.

[jdog]

When I was a believer the OSAS teaching made me feel secure about my eternal future. And I really wanted to believe that it was true. Not all Christians believe OSAS and say it's a false teaching.

 

BUT now. It bothers me. It has crossed my mind over the past few years since I deconverted in '08.

What if it is all true and I am really "saved" and the OSAS doctrine is true.

I would have to live for eternity in heaven with bible God and with Jesus. It actually scares me.

 

Sometimes I wonder if we have been duped by an evil mastermind. That we were tricked into believing salvation was necessary to be saved from a horrible demise but really it is a way to recruit servants for god in the after life. And that it is no paradise but more like "hell"

So what we thought was good is actually bad.

And I've forever sealed my fate by being "saved".

 

I have been doing well with my deconversion overall. Have been happier living life but on occasion I just get panicky and anxious about things. And I have irrational thoughts.

One thought is I have made a mistake for deconverting because bible god really is true and OSAS is false OR That I made a mistake for falling for the BS in the first place and getting "saved" and OSAS is true so consequently I'm doomed to live forever serving and worshiping god in heaven after I die.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Perhaps spend more time with all of the good reasons that Christianity isn't true, and not just what makes it icky. There are plenty of both.

 

Or you could plan of fucking up heaven, have kinky sex with angels, etc.

[earthmama514]

If i ever come out to my crazy fanatical fundamentalist family, I will have to use that doctrine as my "escape" from hell card.  they will be okay with that because they really truly believe that doctrine. unfortunately because they really truly believe they use it as a "forgive anything i do" card. they treat others like downright garbage and then are like "well im just a sinner saved by grace and thank god its once saved always saved, so even these little slips wont send me to hell" *smile sweetly and repeat ad nauseum*

 

its very annoying. and its also very wrong. i know many people who arent christians at all who would never treat another human being the way my family and christians i know do.

 

ive actually become a nicer person since not being a christian anymore. and if i die and wind up in "heaven' anyway, im going to try my hardest to get kicked out asap.

[Deidre]

I'm so glad you posted this. I'm dealing with a Christian friend right now who can't seem to understand my deconversion.

Thank you for taking the time to share.

[rach]

I would have to live for eternity in heaven with bible God and with Jesus. It actually scares me.

 

Sometimes I wonder if we have been duped by an evil mastermind. That we were tricked into believing salvation was necessary to be saved from a horrible demise but really it is a way to recruit servants for god in the after life. And that it is no paradise but more like "hell"

So what we thought was good is actually bad.

And I've forever sealed my fate by being "saved".

 

I feel the same way.  Paranoid about going to heaven.  Depressed about possibly being forced to live with Jesus.  When I have dream-visions about dying (which may or may not be prophetic) either I end up in nonexistence or I end up in a good world with my own race and without any gods.  Either of those would be great.  The dream-visions are what I use to soothe my fears.  Never once have I had any kind of dream-vision showing Jesus or his heaven. 

[DoubtingNate]

just keep reminding yourself.. none of this is real.  say it again and again like a mantra.

[gall]

Perhaps spend more time with all of the good reasons that Christianity isn't true, and not just what makes it icky. There are plenty of both.

 

Or you could plan of fucking up heaven, have kinky sex with angels, etc.

 

According to Kevin Smith the have no sex organs... just like a Ken doll.

[BinkleyBoo]

The argument I used to hear all the time (regarding a person who has 'fallen away') is that they were never saved in the first place. If folks from our old church ever learn of our deconversion, that's exactly what they will say. Also, they will say our marriage is on the rocks, and our daughter is running amok. Whatever. lol. Of course, it's true .... we were never saved because it's all crap anyway, but we sure believed we were.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Congratulations, Mr. Radio Preacher Man, you just shattered the illusion of free will.

[Margee]

We were even told that we get one more chance after we die. I'm not quite sure which scripture evidence they would have had for this statement. Any of you told that? 

 

Maybe it was the scripture that ''even prostitutes and murderers would see the kingdom of heaven before you'' .....

[miekko]

Some Christians use this to reach the opposite conclusion: if you leave Christianity, you were never *really* saved, but were lying to everyone else (and possibly yourself as well). This is a pretty clever rhetorical cheat - it diverts  the discussion from whatever actual topic was being discussed: whoever is accused of faking their former religious beliefs has their credibility questioned in a pretty nasty way, and is basically forced to defend his credibility by being diverted onto the red herring of whether they really were saved or not. 

 

Of course, this basically lets the Christian set the rules for the discussion - and whether a person is saved or not, obviously depends on whether Christianity in some form is right in the first place, so one has already accidentally conceded a pretty important point if one gets into discussing that.

[Vigile]

What form do I need to sign to get out of this?