Are You An Ex-Liberal Xtian?

[Orbit]

There are so many ex-fundamentalists and ex-evangelicals here I was wondering if there were any fellow Ex-Liberal Christians here (where "liberal" means non-fundamentalist, mainstream Christian). What was your deconversion like? How did being a liberal Xtian affect it?

[Ravenstar]

I've been both.

 

The story unravels either way… I'm a liberal at heart and able to look at all evidence, but when it came to Christianity I realized that it really does not allow for liberalism, not if you read it right. Then I realized that the fundamentalism in the Bible was abhorrent. Stuck between a rock and a hard place I came to see it's all bunk.

[buffettphan]

I was raised catholic...and very liberal.  I left the religion before I graduated from high school (1970's).  I re-visited it in the late 80's/early 90's (mainly as a reaction to my husband's new born-againism). During that time, I described myself as new-age, mystical-catholic.  Matthew Fox and his "original blessing" concept worked well for me at the time.  Even now, if I had to choose a religion/spirituality, I could live with the concept of creation spirituality. 
 
 
From Wiki:
 

Among Fox’s most controversial teachings was a belief in "original blessing", which became the title of one of his most popular books. The concept was in direct contravention of the Roman Catholic doctrine that people are born into "original sin". Fox’s teachings also were considered more feminist and ecology-centered, and more accepting of homosexuality than church orthodoxy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Fox_(priest)

 
However in the end, christianity is BS and I couldn't stay.  But I will always be anathema here in the bible belt south -- a bleeding heart liberal.   Suck it, funditards!   

 

 

  

[Positivist]

Great question. I was a fundy all the way and tried to become liberal to save my faith. (It didn't work.)

 

Someone once said to me that a liberal Xian becoming an atheist is like a man trying to commit suicide by jumping out his basement window. 

[older]

I guess that would be me. My parents made me go to a Congregational church through junior high school. I hated it because it was boring and even at the age of 10 I was questioning the logic of it. I think my earliest question was about the nonsense of the Trinity. Fortunately, I never suffered the threats and mental torture so many of you have. I suspect that my parents went to church because I grew up in the era of McCarthyism and Communist witch hunts and my dad was involved in show business and therefore had to maintain a certain public image. After we moved to a community with a substantial liberal Jewish population, the pressure was off. I quit going and so did my folks.

 

But I still bought into Pascal's Wager, and tried to maintain some religious thoughts "just in case." But those thoughts became fewer and fewer as the decades went by. Then several years ago I was sitting at a picnic table at an event for my hobby. Our conversation had nothing to do with religion or philosophy but for some reason a friend across the table said he was an atheist. I don't remember the context, but it was a jolt for me. "Damn," I thought. "I am too." I finally realized that I really didn't believe, and I felt something lift from my shoulders. The relief for me was akin to realizing that you don't have any more homework hanging over your head and that the last term paper you'll ever need to write has been submitted.

 

I don't remember how I found my way here, but I was and remain impressed with the level of discourse and the intelligence of Ex-C members, who are good writers and thoughtful and caring people.

[VahnBlue]

I probably count as both. Some of the Evangelical ways managed to get implanted in me, very young, but the free thinker in me always questioned it. I believe I was about 8 or 9 when I used to ask myself, during morning sermons, how do they know that all this wasn't just made up by the writers and used to think all the grown people were weird, running around, dancing, and "catching the Holy Ghost"(I still do, obviously). Most importantly, I NEVER enjoyed the hive mind mentality and found it very unsettling and cringe-worthy; even when I got reconverted later on in my adult years. When I was about 12, I wasn't forced to go anymore and so I always tipped the line between a deist and a theist and managed to get slipped back in at 18 -- this time, being the deepest Ive ever got. I even almost converted my, now ex gf; who at the time had recently broke away from the Catholics. I went to bible studies, youth groups, etc. It wasn't until last year that I was able to slowly break away and I finally got back out again, just last October. I had got myself so deep, that it was hard to come out with it. I was extremely anxious to get away. I had all the symptoms of a cult member on the verge of leaving lol. I've been free again for almost two months, come next week. This time I'm not on any fences. I'm a complete Atheist. No Theology and not even any spirituality that many seem to go to, after leaving religion behind.

 

 

I guess I came from a more Evangelical background, in my second time around, but during my youth years, I was a lot more liberal christian-y. So I would have to say that I experienced both and that the first conversion and being a more liberal minded christian -- all it is a Luke warm Christianity, really. It's a lot less harder to leave the fold, but during my second time around and way in the Evangelical side, it was very difficult to get out. Especially with the thought of losing so many friends, but I still had a handful of atheist friends from childhood to help soften my landing. I almost just said, "thank god" at the end of my post out of habit. I'm still trying to break some of em.

[ToHellWithMe]

I don't think there really can be liberal Christianity, just varying levels of how seriously you take the thing. Levels of how really you believe.

 

I used to think that I come from a liberal Christian background, and in a way that is accurate, as my parents didn't make a too big deal of it, and I was fairly free to read and listen to whatever I wanted. But I wonder if that really tells much about "my Christianity" after all.

 

My confirmation school was stricter, and made more sense to me than the easy-going attitude I had been taught. It got me thinking that this is more like how you must take Christianity, if it is indeed true.

 

As for deconversion, the first phase of mine was at 18-19. Sometimes tormenting, but a fairly quick process. Less than a year of conscious consideration. Later I've realised that was not all. There's been more to let go of and some things to reconsider and re-adopt. Not really painful anymore, though. Just interesting. Unless my...suicidially dark thoughts that occurred simultaneously with my deconversion and for a few years after that were actually part of it instead of being part of your normal process of growing up.

[seven77]

My former church was very moderate. Although that was mostly for show, IMO. The higher ups were mostly comprised of "ex-fundies" and it was only the newcomers that were truly liberal, both personally and politically. I suspect that the form semi-Jewish faith they promoted was merely a modern twist on fundamentalism meant to appeal to hipsters and those who were searching for a more authentic path.

 

Some say that Messianicism is for those who are on their way out the Jesus door. For me, it was the least scary and most sensible version of the faith that I could adhere to upon conversion. I doubted the literalness of it all after attending a pray the gay away group there and then a series of lectures that espoused Intelligent Design and taught the Fine Christian Nation narrative in regards to politics and history. After that, I realized that the church was mostly phony.

 

Sure, the pastors wore jeans and they played rock-lite worship music, but that didn't mean they weren't teaching and preaching the same bs that the dress-up-on-Sunday Baptist megachurches down the road was. Faith is a racket that makes money aka very successful business. Anyone with a bit a street sense knows that on some level. That's the perspective I have always held in regards to the church and even as a believer, I never really viewed the church as a force of benevolent Jesus-driven good.

 

So yeah, I guess that means I was a liberal in conservative wool the whole time, wandering among Jesus' precious steeple. Who knew?

[Orbit]

Great question. I was a fundy all the way and tried to become liberal to save my faith. (It didn't work.)

 

Someone once said to me that a liberal Xian becoming an atheist is like a man trying to commit suicide by jumping out his basement window. 

Giving up a lifelong belief in God  is never an easy thing. This statement is just reflective of fundamentalist intolerance of anyone who doesn't believe the same as them. It's not the same belief, so it must not be real. Lame.

[LongWayAround]

I was a closet liberal while I was an xtian.  I knew my liberal views on homosexuality, feminism, politics, etc. didn't align with the church views so I kept it to myself.  It caused me internal anxiety to know that I wasn't suppose to have those views.  I am sooo glad to be free of that.

[Burny]

I was a closet liberal while I was an xtian.  I knew my liberal views on homosexuality, feminism, politics, etc. didn't align with the church views so I kept it to myself.  It caused me internal anxiety to know that I wasn't suppose to have those views.  I am sooo glad to be free of that.

 

I was a fundy xtian until I started to share those feelings you had regarding politics, sexuality and feminism. I remember feeling rebellious when I listed my political views as "moderate" on FB. LOL.

 

My wife and I tried liberal xtianity for 5 years but like others have pointed out - there is no point in believing the "good book" about Jesus if you're going to dismiss everything else it says! What's the point in that? Atheism was the only logical step once we realized that fundy xtian principals were disgusting.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Though I was raised conservative and was mostly conservative, there are a few things I was more liberal on. Here are the ones I can think of offhand:

 

1. I believed in helping the poor, as Jesus allegedly taught.

2. I believed in trying to conserve our natural resources, as good stewards of God's creation.

3. Though I condemned homosexuality, I didn't believe in legislating against it. What two consenting adults do together is their own business, and I figured that it wasn't our responsibility to force anything on them.

 

I never did buy into full-fledged liberal Christianity, though. I attempted to when I first started seeing flaws in the Bible that undermined its authority, but I quickly saw how picking and choosing what we want from the Bible is nothing more than creating our own religion as we go along, which, as mere human opinion, could not logically have any real authority.

[Orbit]

So what I am learning here is that buffetphan and I are the only ones with a full-fledged liberal xtian background--everyone else was fundie at some point or didn't think liberal xtianity was real. Interesting.

[R. S. Martin]

So what I am learning here is that buffetphan and I are the only ones with a full-fledged liberal xtian background--everyone else was fundie at some point or didn't think liberal xtianity was real. Interesting.

 

I don't think you can put Christianity as it has been practiced across two thousand years in all times and places on a spectrum and say this group is liberal but this one is fundamentalist. There are simply too many ways of "doing Christianity," i.e. too many combinations of rules and attitudes regarding what is the right way to think and be, and how seriously people take those rules.

 

For example, I come from a horse and buggy community which from the outside may appear to have the strictest of strict lifestyles. Yet according to Christian standards as practiced by some of our neighbouring evangelical churches, we were probably the most liberal and heathenish unrepentant group around. Drinking and smoking in moderation was well tolerated when I was young. Dancing among young people was encouraged. New birth and testimony of one's faith was strongly discouraged. No public prayer. Missionary work was forbidden. But you could be excommunicated for having sex before marriage. You were expected to show your meek and humble spirit by your dress and lifestyle, how you walked and talked in daily life. These were the things that were measured and disciplined. 

 

On my way out of Christianity, I was a student at a Lutheran seminary and openly not a traditional Christian. I was well-tolerated in all my unorthodoxy. Until the day I announced my deconversion. Once I was no longer a Christian or religious at all, it was as though the clamps came down. That is why I say it's a matter of how serious people are about what they believe, not the beliefs themselves, that are important re how difficult it is to leave. When the people around you shun you or in some way withdraw their approval of you as a person, it matters little whether the content of those beliefs qualifies as a 17th century phenomenon or 20th century fundamentalism or 21st century post-modernist Christianity (I can't think right now of the term they call themselves). 

 

That's my take on it. People have fairly set mentalities. Cross them, and they lose their tolerance. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

So what I am learning here is that buffetphan and I are the only ones with a full-fledged liberal xtian background--everyone else was fundie at some point or didn't think liberal xtianity was real. Interesting.

 

I was a liberal for many years.  I think maybe there just haven't been many responses to your thread yet.

[Orbit]

 

So what I am learning here is that buffetphan and I are the only ones with a full-fledged liberal xtian background--everyone else was fundie at some point or didn't think liberal xtianity was real. Interesting.

 

I don't think you can put Christianity as it has been practiced across two thousand years in all times and places on a spectrum and say this group is liberal but this one is fundamentalist. There are simply too many ways of "doing Christianity," i.e. too many combinations of rules and attitudes regarding what is the right way to think and be, and how seriously people take those rules.

 

For example, I come from a horse and buggy community which from the outside may appear to have the strictest of strict lifestyles. Yet according to Christian standards as practiced by some of our neighbouring evangelical churches, we were probably the most liberal and heathenish unrepentant group around. Drinking and smoking in moderation was well tolerated when I was young. Dancing among young people was encouraged. New birth and testimony of one's faith was strongly discouraged. No public prayer. Missionary work was forbidden. But you could be excommunicated for having sex before marriage. You were expected to show your meek and humble spirit by your dress and lifestyle, how you walked and talked in daily life. These were the things that were measured and disciplined. 

 

On my way out of Christianity, I was a student at a Lutheran seminary and openly not a traditional Christian. I was well-tolerated in all my unorthodoxy. Until the day I announced my deconversion. Once I was no longer a Christian or religious at all, it was as though the clamps came down. That is why I say it's a matter of how serious people are about what they believe, not the beliefs themselves, that are important re how difficult it is to leave. When the people around you shun you or in some way withdraw their approval of you as a person, it matters little whether the content of those beliefs qualifies as a 17th century phenomenon or 20th century fundamentalism or 21st century post-modernist Christianity (I can't think right now of the term they call themselves). 

 

That's my take on it. People have fairly set mentalities. Cross them, and they lose their tolerance. 

 

Just to clarify, what I mean by liberal Xtianity is mainstream, mainline denominations that don't take the Bible literally. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc.

[ToHellWithMe]

Just to clarify, what I mean by liberal Xtianity is mainstream, mainline denominations that don't take the Bible literally. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc.

Just to clarify more, by not taking the Bible literally, do you mean those that could be said are not doing so, or do you mean those that actually state that Bible is not to be taken literally?

[Orbit]

 

Just to clarify, what I mean by liberal Xtianity is mainstream, mainline denominations that don't take the Bible literally. Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc.

Just to clarify more, by not taking the Bible literally, do you mean those that could be said are not doing so, or do you mean those that actually state that Bible is not to be taken literally?

 

I think it's pretty obvious, for example, which denominations are popular with say, young earth creationists and which aren't. I don't want to get too technical here. I think everyone has a good understanding of what a fundamentalist is, and I am talking about non-fundamentalist churches.

[Glareth]

When I first became Christian, the church I frequented was very evangelical and so it all rubbed off on me. I opposed cursing, alcohol, tattoos, took all of the bible as literally true, etc.. As I grew up, I began attending a much more liberal church that my dad was going to and through more experiences, loosened up a bit. I became the kind of person who didn't like the idea of religion in government, primarily because I thought the leaders in charge would give Christianity a bad name, lol. Even still, I got into books like "The Irresistible Revolution" by Shane Claiborne and "Blue Like Jazz" and "A Million Miles in a Thousand Years" by Donald Miller. Some of the evangelical influence from the old church kinda clung to me - things like speaking in tongues and being baptized in the holy spirit were normal for me but probably would have freaked people out in this new church - but I became more liberal with my interpretation of scriptures. I began focusing more and more on the grace of God, and made every attempt to not judge anybody as Jesus said. I felt like mainstream Christianity had gotten entangled with politics too much, particularly right-wing conservatism, and that the "early church" as depicted in Acts was the model for which we should interact with one another: a place of complete community, where everybody helps each other out and gives selflessly, etc. I didn't find cursing as bad, and I even ended up getting a tattoo, haha. 

 

 

I suppose you could say that my more liberal version of Christianity made my transition to atheism relatively painless. Don't get me wrong, I was still left with a sense of uncertainty to it all at first, but it wasn't quite as traumatizing as many stories I've heard. I guess the fear of hell wasn't quite as prominent, and I was able to recognize that I placed importance on other things in my life aside from God. When I let go of my beliefs, I still had all of these things, and so even though there would be some things that I would miss, I knew that my life would basically be the same. Plus there was the benefit of finally being true to myself  

[SquareOne]

I was a fairly liberal evangelical.  I was very much in camp of separation of church and state, of church and law, and even of church teaching and social morality.

 

The more I became more liberal though, the harder it was to hold all things in tension.

[Ellinas]

I've been both.

 

The story unravels either way… I'm a liberal at heart and able to look at all evidence, but when it came to Christianity I realized that it really does not allow for liberalism, not if you read it right. Then I realized that the fundamentalism in the Bible was abhorrent. Stuck between a rock and a hard place I came to see it's all bunk.

 

This pretty well sums me up as well.  When I first went to university I would have been in the liberal Christian camp.  Problem was, when someone of an evangelical background told me that he was puzzling over whether I was a Christian or not, I had to agree with him.  Liberalism in theological terms seemed to me to mean nothing.  Therefore I held my nose and dived into conservative fundamentalism.  Problem with that was that I then had to spend years ignoring the bits I could not really accept, or making conservative statements with a very bad taste in my mouth.

 

Had I remained in the liberal wing it's possible I would be there still.  Fundamentalism, however, seemed to me to be by far the more internally consistent (damning with faint praise, I know...) and, at the same time, drove me ultimately to the point where I could do nothing but reject the whole thing.

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

Had I remained in the liberal wing it's possible I would be there still.  Fundamentalism, however, seemed to me to be by far the more internally consistent (damning with faint praise, I know...) and, at the same time, drove me ultimately to the point where I could do nothing but reject the whole thing.

 

 

This is something that I've often wondered about myself. Is it actually easier to see the problems with Christianity if one is coming from a more fundamentalist background? Are the more liberal Christians less likely to leave their religion because they have more flexibility in how they interpret the Bible?

[Ellinas]

 

 

Had I remained in the liberal wing it's possible I would be there still.  Fundamentalism, however, seemed to me to be by far the more internally consistent (damning with faint praise, I know...) and, at the same time, drove me ultimately to the point where I could do nothing but reject the whole thing.

 

 

This is something that I've often wondered about myself. Is it actually easier to see the problems with Christianity if one is coming from a more fundamentalist background? Are the more liberal Christians less likely to leave their religion because they have more flexibility in how they interpret the Bible?

 

 

The only answer I can give is a definite "maybe".  Looks like that from where I stand - but how can I speak for those who never went into fundamentalism?

[Geezer]

I was a hardcore fundie for most of my adult life. Research and study first convinced me the Bible isn't literally true, further study convinced me Christinaity is nothing but a collection of myths labeled as theology. When I became convinced none of it is true I lost interest in all of it. Myth is myth be it a liberal or conservative version it still isn't true,

 

What would be the purpose in being part of a group that worships mythical Deities, extorts money from its members, and attempts to control virtually every aspect of their members lives?

[amateur]

I came from a liberal xian background.  The churches I attended were stodgy and polite and focused on love and forgiveness.  My parents were agnostics so nothing else got drilled in my head, other than being allowed to question xianty.

 

So my deconversion took decades because I had nothing huge to fight against!  It was like fighting against vanilla pudding.