Guest Ask21771 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 you probably all knew this already but apparently the gospel of John was allegedly written by an eye witness known simply as "the disciple whom Jesus loved" please tell me this claim has been debunked and has been proven to not be an eye witness account of Jesus otherwise I'm going to have big problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Perhaps if you did the research yourself it would have more meaning to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well how much do you want to know, Ask21771? This type of thing seems to have a negative effect on you and I don't understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 No one knows who wrote any of the Gospels or when they were written. Myths are still myths, whenever they were written. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamia Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It has all been debunked. Addressing your past and figuring out why you worry about/believe this stuff and when it started would be more fruitful than obsessing over something that doesn't deserve to be obsessed over. Why don't you tell us your backstory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 You should check out Dr Bart Ehrman's book, Who wrote the Bible & Why it matters. It was a real eye opener for me. Ehrman has written a number of interesting books that I have found helpful in my study & research of religious history. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ask21771 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It has all been debunked. Addressing your past and figuring out why you worry about/believe this stuff and when it started would be more fruitful than obsessing over something that doesn't deserve to be obsessed over. Why don't you tell us your backstory? I suffer from parinoia and anxiety attacks caused by my bipolar disorder I don't like taking the meds because I don't like what they do to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It has all been debunked. Addressing your past and figuring out why you worry about/believe this stuff and when it started would be more fruitful than obsessing over something that doesn't deserve to be obsessed over. Why don't you tell us your backstory? I suffer from parinoia and anxiety attacks caused by my bipolar disorder I don't like taking the meds because I don't like what they do to me Hmmm. That's tough, sorry that you have to endure this. The best way to help yourself is to buy some books and go over the evidence yourself. Don't read too much Christian stuff because they are mostly NOT impartial and objective enough. Read authors like Price and Ehrman. There's many others too. Make a list of what makes sense and what doesn't. Ask yourself what can be known and what can't. Ask yourself why it matters. We know that Joseph Smith existed. We know that he wrote the Book of Mormon. But none of us believe that he got revelations from God. It makes no difference in the end who wrote the book of John. It's still just a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ask21771 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 It has all been debunked. Addressing your past and figuring out why you worry about/believe this stuff and when it started would be more fruitful than obsessing over something that doesn't deserve to be obsessed over. Why don't you tell us your backstory? I suffer from parinoia and anxiety attacks caused by my bipolar disorder I don't like taking the meds because I don't like what they do to me Hmmm. That's tough, sorry that you have to endure this. The best way to help yourself is to buy some books and go over the evidence yourself. Don't read too much Christian stuff because they are mostly NOT impartial and objective enough. Read authors like Price and Ehrman. There's many others too. Make a list of what makes sense and what doesn't. Ask yourself what can be known and what can't. Ask yourself why it matters. We know that Joseph Smith existed. We know that he wrote the Book of Mormon. But none of us believe that he got revelations from God. It makes no difference in the end who wrote the book of John. It's still just a story. I dont have a time for that just tell me if the disciple was debunked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I dont have a time for that just tell me if the disciple was debunked Yes it was debunked. Christ is a fictional character. The Book of John was estimated to be written some 50 years after the death of Paul the apostle, the inventor of Christ. The book of John is a criticism of Mathew and Luke which in tern were both criticisms of Mark. And Mark was a criticism of Paul's religion. Paul's letters had to circulate long enough for Mark's author to come up with a response. Then Mark had to circulate long enough for Luke's author and Matthew's author to invent the new material. Then those had to circulate for the brand new theology we seen in John to evolve. And just as soon as John circulated there were other gospels written. Each was more elaborate than the ones that came before it. There is much to be learned from textual criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ask21771 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I dont have a time for that just tell me if the disciple was debunked Yes it was debunked. Christ is a fictional character. The Book of John was estimated to be written some 50 years after the death of Paul the apostle, the inventor of Christ. The book of John is a criticism of Mathew and Luke which in tern were both criticisms of Mark. And Mark was a criticism of Paul's religion. Paul's letters had to circulate long enough for Mark's author to come up with a response. Then Mark had to circulate long enough for Luke's author and Matthew's author to invent the new material. Then those had to circulate for the brand new theology we seen in John to evolve. And just as soon as John circulated there were other gospels written. Each was more elaborate than the ones that came before it. There is much to be learned from textual criticism. And this so called disciple was debunked as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I dont have a time for that just tell me if the disciple was debunked Yes it was debunked. Christ is a fictional character. The Book of John was estimated to be written some 50 years after the death of Paul the apostle, the inventor of Christ. The book of John is a criticism of Mathew and Luke which in tern were both criticisms of Mark. And Mark was a criticism of Paul's religion. Paul's letters had to circulate long enough for Mark's author to come up with a response. Then Mark had to circulate long enough for Luke's author and Matthew's author to invent the new material. Then those had to circulate for the brand new theology we seen in John to evolve. And just as soon as John circulated there were other gospels written. Each was more elaborate than the ones that came before it. There is much to be learned from textual criticism. And this so called disciple was debunked as well He was just as real as Harry Potter and Valdemort. Nothing in the Bible is true except for geography. Physical geography mentioned in the Bible is sometimes true. Political geography mentioned in the Bible was often true at the time of the writing. The rest of it is propaganda, wishful thinking and the world's greatest scam. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ask21771 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Is there any actual proof of this because that's what I need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamia Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why would you care If the disciple was specifically debunked if the whole bible has been debunked? what exactly do you believe? were your parents religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm not going to get into that unless you answer my question about atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jds22 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Your question has been answered multiple times. You've been given references so you can educate yourself which would be very beneficial to you, but you refuse them. Just what in the hell do you expect from the people on this board? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Ask, you are on a journey, one that has taken many of us months and years to travel, with lots of reading and exploring and asking and thinking. But you come here and demand to be taken straight to the finish line. Relax. Buckle in and get ready for the ride. There are no short answers. Abrahamic religion and its offshoot of Christianity have had thousands of years to ingrain into our collective conscience and to hone their answers to everything, and for the huge majority of those years there was no questioning or dissent allowed. Relatively recently has debunking information been available, and it is taking a lot of effort to peel back those thousands of years of layers of that onion. At least now the Ehrmans of the world are not tortured and killed for bringing us these other ideas. In this and other threads, caring people have given you mounds of leads for exploring the questions you are asking. You have admitted to mental health issues. I get that. I feel your pain! Be aware that even healthy people are driven mad by the manipulation, fear, shame, guilt, confusion, inconsistencies of christianity. It can really mess with ones mind, especially the more a thinking christian thinks about it. And that's what you are doing -- thinking about it a lot. You are piling on to an already distressed mind. It is brave to try to get to the bottom of this, but I gently advise you to be careful. Others here have suggested professional help. I abhor the available treatments for mental issues (they make so many people worse in other ways, although with a lot of trial and error they can help -- it's frustrating!), but there was a time when I had to give in and get help. I think I was experiencing what you are experiencing -- I could not "turn off" the circling in my mind, the fear, the constant questioning. It was overwhelming. I was being obsessive and it was affecting my sleep, my waking hours, my work, and my family relationship. I had to put a bandaid on my brain to turn off the noise so I could heal. You are freaking me out a little. You seem obsessive and impatient. Please get some help. We can only do so much. Settle in and read some of the suggested sources. Slow down. It's a journey for life, not a race to the finish. There really is no finish, I'm sorry to say. Some people here have suggested that you are a troll, just to rile us up. Do you see that you are coming across in an alarming way? This should all tell you that you need to figure out how to turn off some of the noise in your head. And I'm sorry to sound harsh, but you may need professional help to do that. I hope you find some peace, and soon. You have come to right place for the information you seek, but you have to be willing to do some work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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