Mythra Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it. And so it goes. Generation after generation. Christian parents raise christian children. Muslim parents raise muslim children. I wonder how many of us were taught christianity as a small child because an ancient ancestor, perhaps a thousand years ago or more, taught his child christianity. And it was perpetuated on and on. Perhaps some of us here even have a common ancestor that decided christianity was true. Early imprinting of religion into a child's mind is a very difficult thing to shake off later in life, as most of us have experienced first-hand. Richard Dawkins says it's a shame that we don't teach our children how to think instead of what to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 That was my story. I learned to think on my own from necessity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 I wonder if the internet in general, and sites like this specifically, can eventually combat the early imprinting phenomena. Questions will inevitably arise, and people now have a source where they can go anonymously search for answers, away from the prying eyes of accusers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 That was my story. I learned to think on my own from necessity. And you're one of the lucky ones, Jeff. Your ability to think outweighed and eventually conquered the common tendency to just follow. There's a reason christians are compared to sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineBlasphemer Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Mommy is a Christian, so you are a Christian too, sweetheart. Go to church with us and put on your bullshit blinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Conversation in Sunday School: Teacher: And that's the story of how God made our wonderful world just for us! Child: But, teacher, what about the dinosaurs? Teacher: Can we talk about that next week, sweetheart? We're out of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivineBlasphemer Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Child: How did the craters on the moon get there? Teacher: *HEAVY BREATHING* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I've wondered about this lately. I was raised by a liberal mainline pastor. I'm not sure I ever would have become an evangelical if I hadn't been lonely in college and been approached by friendly evangelical Christians. Either way, though, I was raised Christian and stayed that way for 47 years, despite almost constant cognitive dissonance. I finally gave up resisting it and deconverted. One of my brothers married a cradle Catholic and doesn't (to my knowledge) go to mass much or is religious. The other brother, highly intelligent, is an apparently solid evangelical since marrying his evangelical wife 23 years ago. Why did I see the light and he hasn't? Now that I am raising my kids to be thinkers (or at least trying to), will they remain atheists and raise their children atheist? Does it work for atheists, too? What if my kids are lonely in college like I was? My daughter is very rational and is unlikely to ever fall for that stuff, but my son is much more emotional and happy to follow the crowd. Will he be more susceptible? Just thinking out loud here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 31, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2015 My son is 6 and he's already gotten into a couple of fights with neighborhood kids over the whole religion thing. His teacher even once made the mistake of claiming that her cat had gone to "kitty heaven" over the weekend... sufficient to say, the boy didn't get "treasure box" that week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've wondered about this lately. I was raised by a liberal mainline pastor. I'm not sure I ever would have become an evangelical if I hadn't been lonely in college and been approached by friendly evangelical Christians. Either way, though, I was raised Christian and stayed that way for 47 years, despite almost constant cognitive dissonance. I finally gave up resisting it and deconverted. One of my brothers married a cradle Catholic and doesn't (to my knowledge) go to mass much or is religious. The other brother, highly intelligent, is an apparently solid evangelical since marrying his evangelical wife 23 years ago. Why did I see the light and he hasn't? Now that I am raising my kids to be thinkers (or at least trying to), will they remain atheists and raise their children atheist? Does it work for atheists, too? What if my kids are lonely in college like I was? My daughter is very rational and is unlikely to ever fall for that stuff, but my son is much more emotional and happy to follow the crowd. Will he be more susceptible? Just thinking out loud here. Teaching children to think for themselves is the opposite of indocrination. Encourage the importance of seeking the truth, wherever it leads. Evidence matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Proverbs 22:6 is a lie and a broken promise. Thousands of ex-Christians, including me, are solid proof of this fact. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Most people don't even know what they're doing. My parents didn't "indoctrinate" me as a way to control me, they genuinely, 100% believed they were teaching me facts, facts they believed would benefit me. Now it's easy for us here to see it for what it is. I really do have the internet to thank, personally. I had an intuition it was bullshit but I needed resources that confirmed it. That's what been lacking up to this point...And today they are more easily accessible than ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Daffodil...I know an atheist who is kind of eccentric and really super cool. Her daughter (who is in her 20s now) rebelled by joining Christian groups in high school. I haven't talked to them in a few years, I'm curious about her feelings now. I really do think she did it only to get under her mother's skin because the normal rebelling wouldn't have gotten any attention. I think that teaching then to think for themselves is key and you're doing the right thing. I don't know how anyone can take these stories as seriously when introduced to them as an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Duplicate, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 This is the heart and soul that keeps ANY religion alive... Suffer the children to come unto me... Cause if you do not... our fiction dies, along with it's revenue, our family name, our honor... yeah we are trapeth.. boundeth... Our whole family will shrivel and perish... GIVE GIVE give... because ALL we have to sell is fear and death... Give at 10% and your rotting relatives will somehow find a reward for their inherently SIN filled lives.... At your expense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Proverbs 22:6 is a lie and a broken promise. Thousands of ex-Christians, including me, are solid proof of this fact. So true, MM. As I Christian, I saw a great many promises that I found out are just not true. Such as: (whatever you ask in my name I will do it,) The truth will set you free. Well, that one may be true, it's just their definition of truth is actually the opposite. As an atheist, I know of a great many threats in the bible that are not true. Such as the warning that you will become unspeakably evil if you leave the faith. 43. When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. There's a trainload of untrue in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 GIVE GIVE give... because ALL we have to sell is fear and death... That's exactly right too. When you give and give to your faith and finally ask: How much do you want me to give? The answer is always the same: MORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Even after a person has figured out that religion is bunk, It still takes a really long time to shake the residual baggage that has been planted in your brain. It was years before I could say "Fuck You God", without feeling him looking at me shaking his head and feeling sad. Or really angry. Or vengeful. But he's gone now. For good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. I think most can agree, despite religious or non-religious views, that there are traits of morality that parents wish to teach their children. It does offer insight, I think, into the art of raising children. The phrase “in the way he should go,” conveys the message that each child is different and must be guided with knowledge of their own gifts and unique dispositions. This is attitude from which a child, as a general rule, will not deviate as indicated in the following phrase: “When he is old, he will not turn from it.” Parents will no doubt desire to convey their religious or non-religious views to their children but I think it is important that as they go into their teens and approach adulthood they should be encouraged to be curious and question and investigate what their parents have taught them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. I think most can agree, despite religious or non-religious views, that there are traits of morality that parents wish to teach their children. It does offer insight, I think, into the art of raising children. The phrase “in the way he should go,” conveys the message that each child is different and must be guided with knowledge of their own gifts and unique dispositions. This is attitude from which a child, as a general rule, will not deviate as indicated in the following phrase: “When he is old, he will not turn from it.” Parents will no doubt desire to convey their religious or non-religious views to their children but I think it is important that as they go into their teens and approach adulthood they should be encouraged to be curious and question and investigate what their parents have taught them. Well technically no real promise from God is found anywhere in the Bible because imaginary characters can't make real promises. As science and the real world conflict with more and more of the Bible, believers are forced to pretend more and more of the Bible is poetry. If the Bible is simply poetry then there is no reason to treat it like it is better than any other poem. Don't live your life by it. Go read Robert Frost instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Oops, wrong thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Parents will no doubt desire to convey their religious or non-religious views to their children but I think it is important that as they go into their teens and approach adulthood they should be encouraged to be curious and question and investigate what their parents have taught them. So, we would agree on that point, except it's what children learn when they are very young that is the problem. Because that's when the brain accepts anything it's told as fact. Especially if it's coming from a person in a position of authority over the child, such as a parent. Young children have not developed the ability to think critically about things, and they don't have enough life experience to tell the probable from the improbable. If someone tells them that Jesus walked on water, they just accept it at face value. It would be a rare Christian parent who encouraged their child to question and investigate. And they would probably come from a liberal Christian background, as opposed to a Fundamentalist or Evangelical Christian background. If the parent believes that hell is a real place, and that Satan is a real enemy, and that demons are real beings employed by Satan, those beliefs will be imprinted in a child at a young age. And create really screwed up teenagers who either carry those ideas with them into adulthood, or have tremendous conflicts in trying to shake those beliefs. If a child ends up "investigating what their parents taught them", it would not be with the encouragement or approval of most parents. Particularly if the parents are religious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 This is a proverbial statement, and must be interpreted in light of its literary characteristics. It does not carry a divine secure promise. It is a proverb from Solomon, not a command and promise from God. You don't like Proverbs - what about Deuteronomy? Do you think this is a command from God? These are the commands, decrees and laws the Lord your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess,2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 And don't think I have an axe to grind with just Christianity. I have equal hatred towards exposing young children to any ideology. If you teach a 5 year old child to hold a gun for Allah, they will be very good at it by time they're 15. If you impress upon a 5 year old that their race is superior to another race, that is stuck in their brain forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Imprinting is not necessarily the same as indoctrination. Imprinting of a child can occur just from observing the behavior and listening to conversations of a parent. It occurs in all species at a crucial stage of development and is essential to survival. http://www.thegreatstory.org/imprinting.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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