ExMachina1 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Hi all. I recently wholly deconverted from Christianity after 5 years of intense critical thinking during my (very recent) years in college. This is my story. My life has been pretty good, so my deconversion doesn't come from a traumatic experience. Instead, it comes from a simple yet powerful question I asked myself about 5 years ago. Note, previously I was a devout Christian who was certain that God had a wonderful plan for my life. I grew up in the church and have been molded by it practically since birth. I was confident in God and my faith was invulnerable. Then, while doing a casual reading of one my then favorite book of the Bible, Revelations, I asked myself "Why do the end times have to be filled with so much violence, death, and chaos? What's the point?". This seed then sprouted into a tree of questions. What is the point of suffering? Why can't life just be good for everyone, all the time, forever? Why does evil and suffering have to exist? Over the course 5 years, with intense thinking, consulting various people (christians and non), and doing research, I came to the realization that the God of Christianity is simple not real, not true, and not the being that created this Universe. While there may be a god or force responsible for existence, it most certainly (or likely) is not the God of Christianity. I want to tell you the final thought I had which confirmed my deconversion. See, I notice something about christians; Most in my experience seem to be aware of the irrationality of the Bible and Christian faith. Most seem to understand that Christianity has a lot of fundamental problems. BUT, they have cleverly developed a mental system to sidestep of all these issues, such as relying on "faith" or the idea that "God works in mysterious ways" or making alterations to their interpretations of the Bible when it fits them. But I found something I just couldn't avoid - my biggest issue, suffering. What the freak is the point of suffering? Why does an omnipotent God need suffering to exist? Most Christians tell me its the cost of sin and evil. But some point it finally hit me, there is no reason! Based on what the Bible establishes and the logic thereof, every single thing is this universe is a product of God's arbitrary ultimate power. If he wanted to, he could of made a world where suffering does not exist and would of been perfectly happy with that. Christians say God wanted to create a world where Free Will exists so that we wouldnt be robots. But thats thing, having omnipotence means that God could care less; ultimately he did what he did because he just simply felt like it. And there lies the problem of the idea of the BIBLICAL omnibenevolent God who can do virtually any and all things (like create a world where every one has sex every second of the day). In the ultimate end of things, the Bible establishes God as the creator OF EVERYTHING. I find most Christians don't seem to understand this concept. Evil, sickness, sociopathy, death, logic, illogic, happiness, irregular heart beats, chicken wings, reddit, poop, albania, satan, urine, fire, war..............are creations of God. So, in order for them to exist, a supernatural being with SUPREME power had to have created it. Even the idea of nonexistence is a creation of God, if we are to believe he is truly omnipotent. Humans, Satan, and everything cannot create on an omnipotent scale only the God, according to the bible. What I've observed is that all Christians blame suffering and the downfall of humanity on humans themselves. We are the blame for all that is wrong with the world (as well as Satan) because "we" decided to disobey God in the Garden of Eden. But if we are to accept that God is the mastermind behind creation, the alpha and omega, and is the only being with ULTIMATE power, then we have to accept that all things are his creation, including the imperfection in Adam and Eve that led them to disobey him. Some Christians speak as though sin and evil were always there alongside (going against) God, almost like separate entities. But I know this to be false. If God is ultimate, then he had to define and mold the concepts of sin and evil and place them inside of us; they couldnt of just been there. So, with all that said, this means pretty much that every single thing God does he does for an arbitrary reason. Divine Plan is Christian speak for absolutely randomness. If God is the creator of meaning, then that means that meaning is meaningless. Suffering does not have to exist. If it didn't exist, God would not lose power or be sad. The cost of sin does not have to be death, only God decided it to be. The final thought that symbolized my transition is why would a God who is stated to love me, create suffering and interweave it into the design of humans (so that its something we do to one another), then make it so that suffering is "bad" and causes unhappiness, and then endow us with an idea of "love" and logic that completely contradicts his reason for creating suffering? That is purely senseless. Its pure randomness. In fact, that's manufactured chaos. Honestly, since Christianity has been a part of me for so long, I still feel the echoes within me, a part of me is saying "this is Satan trying to stop you from believing in God". But deep deep inside, I know the truth. And yes, it hurts, my entire perception of life was built on the idea that God had a big plan for me. And now I realize that such isn't the case. Yet, my mind still craves that safety net of promised paradise. I feel lost, but freed. I'll survive. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Welcome to ex-C! I'm about to hit the sack, so a longer reply will have to wait, but suffice to say, you're not alone with these thoughts pertaining evil and suffering. Myself, I wonder what the purpose of Satan is. I mean, our fallen nature is apparently enough to detract us from the "True Path", so why let someone who actively seeks to lead us astray roam around freely? Satan was an Angel created by God, and God in his omnipotence must have been fully aware of his imminent fall. On the other hand, Satan in the OT is very different from the Satan of the NT, and as for God's supposed omnipotence... there is more than one passage in the OT where God doesn't seem as all-knowing as he's portrayed in later books of the Bible. In fact, he acts very much like other Ancient Gods, with flaws and quite obvious human characteristics. This might not be a problem for a believer who reads the Bible symbolically, but for the literalist fundamentalist, it certainly is. The mental acrobatics needed to get around things like that never ceases to amaze me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Welcome ExM. Each person develops doubt about their faith for a different reason, but whatever the reason once a believer begins to doubt that conflict must be resolved. That process often leads to a loss of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I was told suffering was there to "perfect us". What a total load of crap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The mental gymnastics only work if one wants the story to work. To everyone else they are clearly making excuses for this god's narcissism and petulant attitude. "Oh, see, he's HOLY, so it's ok that he's an asshole. In fact, it's RIGHT and GOOD because we're so evil." He starts the whole thing by planting a tree with magic fruit in the same garden where his beloved children live. Not in another galaxy, not on the moon, right smack in their own yard. But he desperately doesn't want them to eat this fruit, because he loves them so very much, ooohhh yes. Then a talking snake (not Satan, "the snake was more clever than all the other wild animals the LORD God made") convinces them to chow down. Oh, don't you see how very evil WE are because of that decision. That's why he had to slaughter his own son generations later, so show how much he loves us. Nothing says love like torturing your offspring. Such sublime truth and deep wisdom in setting them up for a fall, blaming them, and then planning to incinerate the vast majority of them while not allowing them to die. Yeah baby! God is soooo good all the time! Disgusting vile crap that we are told is the ultimate expression of perfect love. And much of our government is controlled by drones that believe this myth is literal truth, and much of the world believes similar myths. Welcome to 2016. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExMachina1 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah, after really thinking about it, I just couldnt take it anymore. I would never believe anyone if they told me they loved me if they did all those things to me. Like, isnt that something you'd do to your worse, most hated enemy? Regardless, I am glad to have a found a community of like minded people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yeah, after really thinking about it, I just couldnt take it anymore. I would never believe anyone if they told me they loved me if they did all those things to me. Like, isnt that something you'd do to your worse, most hated enemy? Regardless, I am glad to have a found a community of like minded people. No, not even the most vile scum to have ever walked the Earth are truly deserving of the punishment dished out by the Biblical God imho. We humans are indeed capable of terrible evil, but that is a flaw in our nature, and in any case, any evil a human commit is only finite. While it sort of sucks that certain people do NOT get punished in a way, no one is deserving of ETERNAL punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExMachina1 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 I agree. I just said that to make the point that no one loving would do such things. It's madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAmountaineer Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Hey ExMachina1, welcome aboard. I'm a recent deconvert as well. Those "echoes" you experience are completely normal; I experience them too. Valerie Tarico, a psychologist who is an ex-Christian, has a Youtube video titled "Get God's self-appointed messengers out of your head." I think you might find it helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted February 10, 2016 Welcome to Ex-c ExMachina1. Thanks for sharing your story with us! We totally understand what you are going through. So glad to have you here with us! You have found a 'home' where you can question everything you have ever been taught to believe and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you!!! (hug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflighter Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Hi! I agree about your thoughts on what goes on in the world....Part of my "decomissioning" as a "believer" in the bible god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrooks2007 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hey ExMachina1. Indeed. Why DOES violence have to exist in the world? And how is it that there is "free will" on one hand and "divine intervention" on the other? In my case, it was the latter question that broke the camel's back for me. As I noted in another post...and will likely discuss in the next few days...I recently again tried to 'invent' my own form of Christianity again. But that's all it was and is: An invention. Like yourself, I believe in a force that created the universe, even perhaps balances good and evil. But still...the God of Christianity? No. Between the OT and NT...and ESPECIALLY revelation, as you point out...God comes across as psycho. And in many cases, petty and vindictive. See, there's yet another question: If God is all there is, why does God get jealous over "other gods?" Heh. Anyhow, welcome again. :-D -Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Welcome! It is amazing the amount of mind twisting and ignoring the facts in front of them that xians have to do to keep the faith. Once you get so many questions, as you did and I did over the years, you can't ignore them any more. This is a great place to join or start discussions and get the ghosts of xianity out of your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobCu Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 "While there may be a god or force responsible for existence, it most certainly (or likely) is not the God of Christianity." Congratulations for throwing out the ridiculous Christian death cult. You probably already know this but a magical god or a magical force is a childish fantasy that couldn't possibly be real. Science has repeatedly shown a Magic Man was never necessary for anything, and even without the science the idea there's magic in the universe is insane. "If he wanted to, he could of made a world where suffering does not exist and would of been perfectly happy with that." If I wanted to throw out all of reality and pretend a magical master of the universe was real, I would not expect to give a crap about suffering here or at any of the other countless trillions of solar systems. "Yet, my mind still craves that safety net of promised paradise." Yuck. I would not wish for a magical 2nd life. What a disgusting idea. Imagine the eternal boredom. Yet this is the reason religions exist, so feeble-minded cowards can pretend their magical souls will magically fly to a magical paradise after they drop dead. The stupidity, it burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExMachina1 Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thank you everyone for the support. I still struggle honestly, I feel like a baby in the desert. But I also feel free, and its like the world is at my door. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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