A Bit Of A Rant

[warlocktheadam]

Hello everyone,

 

A little about myself:

I'm a post-college male in my early twenties. I've dealt with medical issues, horrible extended (Christian) family members, and severe social anxiety most of my life. All three issues have decreased significantly in recent years, but they are still there. I am also severely embarrassed with my body, and have been since before I was a teen, to the point that I don't like leaving home except for work (I am a little overweight, not obese, and have many stretch marks from growing late).

 

I was raised in a Pentecostal Christian home. I still live at home, but I am employed and about to get my own car, giving me more independence. My parents aren't Bible-thumpers, and they are far less legalistic or "weird" than most southern Christians I have met. They have both struggled with faith in past years, but are still staunchly Christian. We love each other deeply, despite some extremely serious conflicts over the years.

 

I have openly struggled with my faith since I was a teenager. I have "backslidden" three times now. Once, as a teen. Then again in my later years of college; long story short, my heart was totally shattered along with my faith, and I went into a suicidal depression for about a year. I remember seriously considering taking my own life as soon as I had attended my brother's wedding. This was about two years ago now. I still seriously struggle with God and the meaning of life, sometimes feeling hopeless, but now I am not suicidal.

 

Last July I came back to the faith. I have witnessed seeming miracles that can hardly be explained by chance, and I believe someone created this amazingly tuned universe. But recently I've backslidden for the third time. The Christian dogma I grew up with feels more ridiculous the older I get. The Bible seems more and more like a nice fairy tale that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. At the same time, I keep coming back to it, then leaving disgusted months or years later.

 

Life isn't black and white, and Christianity's black and white rules just don't fit with it. My biggest issue is sex. Christians like to treat sex as the world's great sin that causes everyone's problems, except when Christian mommies and daddys need to make a baby like Jesus wants, then it's okay for a few minutes. But God forbid sex between two homosexuals that want to love each other physically, or a boyfriend and girlfriend at are consenting adults. That's evil!

 

Why the hell would God make young men like myself have an insane sex drive and then forbid us from acting on it until we have a paper certificate that magically makes any sexual activity okay with one person? I've "struggled" with porn for about ten years, sometimes barely using it for months and then like recently using it multiple times a week, especially when my sadness and loneliness hits its peak; afterword I feel gross and dirty. I keep apologizing to God, then going back to porn the next day. I desire companionship so badly--not just sex, but someone to wake up with and spend time with.

 

I'm single, a virgin (at least physically, ha-ha), and have never even managed to date or kiss. Is porn four times a week normal for a single guy? I feel like I am so gross for using porn that any girl who found out wouldn't even want to look at me. I feel guilty for wanting sex, I feel guilty for wanting to turn my back on Christianity. Worse, my mother writes Christian material on marriage, and I disagree with it.

 

Without Christianity my worldview falls apart, but I can't seem to justify following it anymore; there are too many problems. I have no friends to lose by deconverting, other than my family (possibly; I don't think they'd disown me, but they wouldn't be happy at all). I'm not a thrill seeker and I have never fit in with people my age that do foolhardy stuff (i.e. speeding drunk and getting in a car crash graduation night). I have had only three good friends in my life, all gone now. I don't know how to make non-Christian friends that still will act with personal restraint, but I can't stand being around Christians anymore--I don't fit in.

 

I don't want to lose my family. Has anyone else experienced this? How do you get free when your family keeps pushing Christian spirituality at you and you live at home? How do you deal with guilt about sex and wanting it after being told 95% of sex is sinful? How do you make new friends outside of church, maybe even future romantic partners?

 

Sorry for the long post; it's good to get this off my chest.

 

- warlocktheadam

[yunea]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Many of us understand the very things you're going through, you don't have to be embarrassed about anything you said.

 

About the porn - this is coming from a 31 yr old woman - I don't think four times a week is bad for a lonely guy in his twenties. I'd be worried if it was four times a day. I always thought it is much better to watch porn than have as much sex with strangers/hookers, as long as it's not illegal porn that's hurting people.

 

One thing I do have to mention though - You'd be surprised by how imperfect people's bodies are. Many (guys and girls) have stretch marks, cellulite, weird scars and moles, a bit of fat in places we don't like, weird body hair, asymmetric chest. Porn is made by people who have those things airbrushed off, fixed in surgery, etc.

 

What are you good at? Usually a way to make friends is when doing something you love, because if someone else pays attention to it and digs it, there's already one thing in common. Learning new skills at folk university type courses can help with that a great deal too. I met my first ever bf at one.

 

We're also here for you anytime you need to vent or just talk. I know it's not the same as IRL friends but maybe it'll help you feel a bit less lonely.

[ax345]

Thanks for sharing.  I share the belief that is is normal to use porn and your own fantasy to masturbate while you have no partner.  But just keep this in mind - in the future, when you DO have a sexual partner, especially if the relationship is loving and serious, you might find that you need to curtail the porn and masturbation.  I was almost unable to orgasm during real sex while I was still regularly masturbating.  For me, porn and masturbation preceded my first sexual experience by a good ten years.  Once I curbed the porn and wanking, only then I found my groove for the real thing, and that made the relationship much stronger.  Your mileage may vary, as they say - take it or leave it.

 

As for your worldview...I can relate to the feeling (well, we've all experienced it) that there must be some greater meaning, and a greater being who created us.  That said, the longer I have been away from Christianity, the more at peace I have become with the notion that it may all be meaningless, at least as far as we humans assign meaning.  If my awareness can be eternally snuffed out because something as mundane as a bus hitting me, then so be it - I can't fight against that reality.  I can only do my best to live the way my conscience leads.  And that is no different than it was when I was Christian - except that I now follow the rules as my conscience dictates, not as the church does.  I can still listen to what the church has to say, along with all the other authorities in the world, but I freely make my own decisions.

You deserve some credit for being mature enough to have this struggle now at your young age.  I was devout in my twenties, struggled during my thirties, and have been free of it in my forties.

[qadeshet]

Without Christianity my worldview falls apart, but I can't seem to justify following it anymore; there are too many problems.

 

The Religious worldview is a kind of delusion. Why not adopt a worldview based on actual reality? Science is our best tool for determining what is real.

[rjn]

I'd say, cut down on the porn. Not because of any prudish morality or guilt, but rather because it is largely a waste of time, and I'm certain exaggerated consumption of it does affect our sexual attitudes to a degree.

[Burny]

Welcome to ex-c. I wouldn't worry about the porn too much. I used to be afraid that I would get "addicted to it", since my elders and pastors all told me that porn is a evil pit of desire that would eventually lead to me being a pedophile or worse! Like anything that feels good, porn can be addictive and unhealthy but no less so than coffee, cigarettes or alcohol.

 

Don't be too desperate for a sexual relationship - just try to make good friends and see where it leads. Use porn and masturbation to make yourself less "horny", as no partner wants a desperate person around all the time! I would first concentrate on what to do about xtianity before you end up married to a fundy and then deconverting. That is a mess you don't want!

 

When my wife and I deconverted after 37 years in the faith, one of the best things was how honest I could be about porn and now we have a very open and honest sex life - far more open and honest than we ever did as xtians! Weird huh?

 

Things they don't tell you as an xtian... Lol.

[warlocktheadam]

Thanks for the replies and kindness, everyone. I really appreciate it--this is hard when you have no one to talk to.

 

 

What are you good at? Usually a way to make friends is when doing something you love, because if someone else pays attention to it and digs it, there's already one thing in common. Learning new skills at folk university type courses can help with that a great deal too. I met my first ever bf at one.

 

I enjoy martial arts (got a black belt in my late teens). I've started attending a small Krav Maga class the last two weeks. I am also considering joining a writing group if I can find one that really critiques each others work and whatnot, not just showing up to say how good we all are (I know I'm not, but I really enjoy writing regardless). Still looking into that, though.

 

Other than that, I don't know. I've spent most of my life becoming a polymath with different video game types, but that isn't too helpful with making friends, unfortunately. I've asked my parents about this in the past and the answer is always something to do with church groups, so that hasn't really helped me think of ideas.

 

 

I would first concentrate on what to do about xtianity before you end up married to a fundy and then deconverting. That is a mess you don't want!

 

Indeed, that's what I don't want! I don't even know if I want to get married, at least not for a long while. Marriage can be a wonderful thing, my parents are honestly proof of that, but I'm tired of being told it is the only good way to live my life.

 

Again, thanks for the replies.

[sdelsolray]

Thanks for your story.  You have experienced, and currently have, several unresolved issues, mostly dealing with religion and interpersonal relationships.

 

Let's leave all that aside for the moment.  Do you have any hobbies, non-religious interests and/or things you like to do when you are alone?

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I can only echo the others. Do what you enjoy and find social things to interact with real women/girls. For me that was dancing lessons, which was a stretch for my comfort zone. But it was wonderful. By the way, Bruce Lee was the 1958 cha-cha dance champion. There are all kinds of different dance styles, so find some you like and pursue it for a year and see what happens. Ballroom dance is a collection of styles like swing, cha-cha, waltz, etc. All great things to know when wooing someone. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it.

 

Another thing that I do is sing in jazz clubs and at jams. It gets me out around lots of cute women and they like my voice. Try doing some things outside your comfort zone that may get you around the kind of ladies you like. Church actually got me going a bit in that area, but with so many emotional hangups that I was still very nervous around women. Once I got out of church and began getting up on stage (a huge effort for a used-to-be wallflower) I began loosening up a lot.

 

The more you can be around real females, the less "other" they will seem and much more approachable on a normal level. Way too many guys never learn how to become attractive to a woman, or how to draw them into simple social interactions. Basics are: good hygiene, dress nicely (or at least nicely for the kind of female you want to attract), learn to converse and ask polite questions, find some that you like and see where it goes. I used to throw my heart in and fantasize heavily, which invariably meant I'd be emotionally crushed when she rejected me. The more I respected myself and took things slowly and didn't spend time lying to myself with fantasies, I got a lot further.

 

Hope that helps.

[TABA]

Hi warlocktheadam!

 

I think you've been given some good advice by the others here. I agree with the consensus on porn and masturbation: no reason to feel guilty, just limit it.

 

I'm sure that living with your parents helps you make ends meet, but I would encourage you to get your own place as soon as you can afford it. Being more independent will boost your confidence. If there's one thing that's attractive to ladies it's a confident guy. Another thing that will help you grow in confidence is taking good care of your body, not just your brain. Not just the obvious personal hygiene, but working out and being in good shape. You could pick up some free weights or join a place like Planet Fitness that is very affordable. I don't know the biology, but strength training releases some incredible mood-boosting shit into your bloodstream. You don't have to become a heavy-duty lifter unless you want to, but you will start to feel better right away and will start to see results in the mirror too. A gym can also be a good place to meet people! Or start taking a daily jog in the park - again it's good for you and you never know who you might meet.

 

So I think building your independence and confidence is a good way to feel less dependent on religion. You obviously already see that so much of it makes no sense, and it's good that you're questioning at a young age. Many of us here are only sorry that we didn't question earlier, or have the confidence to walk away from religion and superstition. If you haven't already read some books on the subject, we'd be happy to recommend some...

 

Well I wish you all the best my friend. Keep in touch and let us know how you're doing. Life stretches out ahead of you and it is likely to be a good and joyful life if you do your own thinking and make it YOUR life and don't try to make it fit what somebody else thinks it should be, or what some religious dogma demands.

[ax345]

Well said, ThereAndBackAgain!

[amateur]

 

Life isn't black and white, and Christianity's black and white rules just don't fit with it. My biggest issue is sex. 

 

What you said there sums up everything to me about xianity.  According to the religion, everything is black/white, right/wrong, of god/not of god.  But life is absolutely not that way.  Not with sexuality, not with anything.

 

If a person happens to be straight, and finds a good person to marry, and they are lucky enough to stay together for their whole lives, then that fits the great xian mold.  But for the rest of us, we're thrown out as sinners.  Gay, divorced, transgendered, victims of spousal abuse, asexual, hermaphrodite, people who simply enjoy having sex with different partners in safe ways, people who enjoy porn in the privacy of their own homes, horny and unable to find a partner to work it out with -- we have all somehow "chosen" to reject what god wants of us.  I've enjoyed my life and I've enjoyed my sexuality, and I've lived through unrelieved horny times, and I have no issue with most porn, and if the church doesn't (or in my case, didn't, as I won't ever attend again) approve of what I've done, it makes no difference to me.  My life did not follow the xian guidelines of marrying one person, sex with just that person, forever.  Huge number of people's lives don't follow those guidelines!  In no way do I feel immoral or guilty for anything I've done.

 

Now, as far as you wanting to make changes in your life, that's a good thing.  Changing your life, making your life work better for you, finding out what YOU truly want to do and finding ways to do it, that's all great!  Clinging to old ways of doing things because of guilt, or only to please your parents or church, are not ways to live sanely for long.

 

There's no need to be a thrill-seeker or to do anything that you truly don't want to do (I, too, have no interest in thrill seeking or doing anything that I deem dangerous).  Meeting new people isn't always easy, but really, there are people everywhere.  Do you go to school and/or have a job?  Then you know people and can probably find someone you can get along with.  Do you have neighbors?  Even in the church, can you find someone else that's a questioner?  

 

Something to think about, and maybe scare you into doing something to make some friends and some good changes in your life NOW:  I can think of several people that I grew up with.  We are now all between the ages of 52 and 60, and a couple of us have remained marginal friends over the decades and I'm somewhat aware of all their circumstances.  There are four I can think of that had always wanted to be married and have a family and make their church and family happy with them (3 women and 1 man), but none of them has ever done it.  Three of them still live very close to their parental home, and have spent decades denying their own interests in sexuality in order to try to conform to what they grew up with expected by their church and families (they all have sexuality but feel guilty either over having very occasional sex or enjoying some porn-- all of which they still hide, even at their ages), and they ALL still complain about their family trying to run their lives (think about their ages!  This is insane!).  The fourth woman moved away from home, finally, by her mid-30's, but has spent the next decades trying to be the exact opposite of her church and family simply for the sake of being the opposite, which has also not worked out for her at all.  So RIGHT NOW, start thinking about what you want, good healthy things that would make YOU happy, not just rejecting the values from your church and family and thinking that the exact opposite would work better (it won't; you'd still be living with your family/church in your head, not your own desires, which is what my fourth friend has been doing and she's a mess).  It's up to you to decide what's right and wrong for you.  Relax about the porn issue.  Sex is good and normal (the church likes to use it as a control because it's a great control since almost everybody has an incredibly strong sex drive from puberty on, and the church can even use it as a thought crime and privacy crime since they can attempt to make you feel guilty just by masturbating with or without porn).  Focus on making a friend or two outside of religion that you can enjoy movies with or kickbox together.  Think about who you want to be and where you want to be in life.  Take small steps to make those things happen.  Even if you're having trouble making friends, still do what interests you and enjoy.

 

Please do this before you're between the ages of 52 and 60 and still living in a stunted way near your family home and still feeling guilty over porn or occasional sex or questioning your religion.  Your job in life is NOT just to make your church and parents happy.  My kids are now grown, and they are their own people.  In most ways I'm super proud of them and their choices, and sometimes I just scratch my head over some of their choices, but you know what?  That doesn't matter; my opinion of their choices DOES NOT MATTER now that they are grown.  What matters is that my kids are now young adults and are making their OWN choices, and of that I am very proud.  My marginal friends that are now 52-60?  Their remaining parents are now between the ages of 84 and 92 and they are STILL trying to make those parents happy!!!!!  It will not happen; they will never make those parents happy.  And by the way, none of those parents are fundy at all, they all go to mainstream churches that are pretty liberal.  Somehow, those adult children scared themselves into thinking they had to conform to their parents' and churches' wishes, but I was raised in one of those same churches, and it wasn't like that.  Those adult children might have had some control issues with their parents when they were young, and their parents did use guilt tactics to keep their kids "good" when they were young and we were growing up, but none of them ever grew out of that, and at their ages it has been a useless waste of their lives.

 

Good luck!  Get out now!  I do wish you all the best.

[warlocktheadam]

Hello again all.

 

Thought I'd reply to some great posts and give an update.

 

I'm sure that living with your parents helps you make ends meet, but I would encourage you to get your own place as soon as you can afford it. Being more independent will boost your confidence. If there's one thing that's attractive to ladies it's a confident guy.

 

I agree with this assessment. For a very long time, I was so anxious and socially inept that I couldn't fathom living on my own. By the time I was in college, I was dealing with such terrible physical and emotional pain from a multitude of different issues that I was just getting through each week. Now that I have recovered from those issues and have a real job, I am beginning to desire my own place and life.

 

But at the same time, I want to be careful not to be rash and jump headlong out of my parents' house. I barely make $200 a week (it's the only job I've been able to get outside seasonal UPS work). I'll have school bills coming up, as well as a car payment and insurance soon. They have already told me they will help me with both when they can. If I lived on my own, I would also have utilities, rent, cat food, medical bills--the fees are frightening. I think leaving home in the near future would be a death wish for my financial well being. In addition, we are moving in about a month. I think it would be pretty rude if not disrespectful to voice my (strong) opinion on where and how I would like to live, and then when we are about to finally switch residences, move out. I'd feel like sort of a dick, unless they turn into religious fanatics or I loathe every second of my life there.

 

That being said, I am pursuing a job in air traffic control. For any that don't know, that involves working via radio and radar with aircraft. It pays very well, and I have a college degree in the field that I haven't yet been able to use. But the application process is multi-stepped and (from what I know) arduous. It is a government job, after all.

 

But something about it that may be good for me is the extra schooling required. If I am accepted into the program (the bid should open this week or the next), I will be required to travel to Oklahoma City and attend a semester of government-paid schooling at an FAA training facility. This would probably happen by the end of the year, fall I would guess. I would obviously be living on my own for this short period of time, which might be a good life experience. That all hinges on if I am accepted or not, however.

 

 

 Even if you're having trouble making friends, still do what interests you and enjoy.

 

This is what I am really trying to do. As I said, I am not severely overweight, but almost all of my fat is on my stomach, making for a poor figure. I also have virtually no dating, relationship, or sexual experience outside of what I spoke about in my original post. All of that combined makes me feel extremely intimidated by the idea of showing interest in any girl, especially since I am attracted to fit young women my age. Who would want me?

 

I know I probably look better than I think I do, but this is a barrier I haven't yet been able to overcome. I've seen some (as Michael Pena would say) "crazy stupid fine" girls at the gym (I rarely go, feeling like a loser around the jocks), and could not get the guts to talk to them; the ladies looked great, and I am far from a football player physique.

 

So I am just trying to do things I enjoy. Writing, walking, spending time with my little sister (she's cool), watching movies. But I am having difficulty finding people to do these things with.

 

Now for the update.

 

Not much has changed, except I think I've mentally let go of religion and a burden has lifted from me. It's been replaced by another, however. I don't know how or when to tell my parents I don't believe as they do anymore. As I said above, they do a lot for me. I really do love them, I just don't want to be a part of their religion anymore. And I really don't want to come across as ungrateful or disrespectful. Worse, as I said I've backslidden three times. This time, I really mean to escape from Christianity. I don't know how they will react if I formally renounce Christianity (xianity?) instead of just voicing serious doubts like before.

 

As a side note, I was working last week when my boss came in with two guests/customers/somethings. I work for a small company of three other people, all of whom are Christians except me, to the best of my knowledge. They like me. My boss introduced me to these two people, calling me a "good Christian man." I got the job through my brother; no other company would hire me except UPS for Christmas. I've never mentioned any of my spiritual views to my boss; I think he just assumes I am a Christian since he works with my brother, who is a youth pastor.

 

Needless to say, I worked not to cringe at his comment.

 

Have any of you been in a similar situation? I don't know the man on a very personal level. He is nice, and kind to me. But now I know he thinks I am religious like my brother. I am not sure if he would treat me differently if he found out I am not. If he is a nut and fires me for it, I'd have no income. But my family wants to go to the same church as my boss, and he already works with my brother! I fear news of my deconversion might spread quickly, and before long my immediate family, my brother, his wife, and my boss/colleagues at work would know. That scares me; I don't think I am ready to be either alienated or constantly bombarded by please to come back into the fold. Thanks, Christianity!

 

Support is sincerely appreciated. I can't tell you how much it helps to have people to talk to. I suspect many of you know the feeling.

 

Best to all.