BeyondReligiosity Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Hi, ExC'! I have recently become open to some kind of spirituality after the long process of and healing from deconversion from Christianity. The foundational reason is that science doesn't disprove "something more" and I'm inclined to believe there is because I perceive that there is no satisfying explanation for existence itself. I've no idea what that "something more" is, but I'm open to learning. This openness was won long and hard and I had to make an agreement with myself in my recovery from religiosity. One thing I now choose is to balance my life with other interests and coping skills, not becoming so wrapped up and fixated with spirituality that, if I find my perspective in need of correction or expansion, I will not be so invested that I'm devastated. Another thing is not to seek certainty regarding any perspective or belief system. In "Varieties of Religious Experience," by William James, he speaks of a "gated community of the mind" and it does follow that certainty or believing that one has arrived at any final truth limits openness to learning, growing and having one's perspective expanded. I choose to seek a sense of security in my life outside of certainty (any suggestions on how to do this are very much appreciated). I'm quite interested in hearing others' thoughts on these things. Have you discovered a new spirituality for yourself? If so, what makes more sense about it? How is it different from your previous faith in that it's healthier? If you don't mind sharing, what you believe and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 5, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2016 Like most who leave a mainstream religion, I also went through a spirituality phase. I'm still looking for any evidence that there is some invisible and undetectable realm. That said, if there is some other magical realm beyond what we see as reality, I think Alan Watts probably had the best view of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 The hard scientific evidence is certainly not there. I like Alan Watts very much, as well as Advaita Vedanta Hinduism. I have investigated Buddhism, but in its organized form I dislike it, especially the emphasis on the guru or master. And that is not something I can get past. I am far from an Orthodox Christian, but have discovered there is a core center made up of some ideas derived from Christianity that I cannot completely discard. It would be like discarding a part of myself with nothing but a dark hole in its place. Over many years, I have moved one step forward and one step back with my spiritual life and understanding. I am gradually crafting a spiritual life for myself, but I have not found any organized movement that embodies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 5, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted August 5, 2016 I am gradually crafting a spiritual life for myself, but I have not found any organized movement that embodies it. That seems to be the conclusion of Watts. Religion appears to be the natural enemy of spirituality, though that's what they purport to be selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondReligiosity Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 I listened to the audio, "Alan Watts, The Journey of the Self," and there are parts that makes sense to me. However, I'm not seeing how he came to some conclusions, though I may need to listen again. For example, the idea that there are two parts "good" to one part "evil" (for lack of adequate illustration of inexplicable things). He states that this is a natural condition because we would get bored if everything were good all the time. Okay - makes some sense, but why come to that conclusion? He later suggests that it is naive to believe that things will get better and better (which is what I would predict if I were to view existence as 2/3 good), but that things will get worse and worse until Shiva destroys it all and creation starts over again (symbolically speaking, I presume). Additionally, I don't see the balance of good and evil according to the 2:1 principle to have operated in history or present. We started out in an evolutionary struggle for survival, more than 1/3 of the world have continued to suffer beyond any reasonable quality of life until today and he predicts it only gets worse for all of us until the end of this cycle. It may very well boil down to my own confirmation bias and my conscious unwillingness to part with it. I once asked myself that, if Christianity were a lie, would I want to know it. I answered yes and have endured the most painful crises of my life because of it. Though I am grateful to have my eyes opened, I yet have to wonder if it was all worth it. I ask myself now that, if Watt's perspective is accurate, would I want to know and the answer is no. I've already been through hell and would prefer not to return, thank you. If life allows me a hopeful view of spirituality and a thinking mind, I will embrace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I've not watched any of this Alan Watts' bloke's stuff, but, from my personal perspective, and on the basis that spirituality is just that (i.e, personal) his ideas should be nothing more than a source for you to find concepts to play with. If what someone else says makes little sense to you, then reject it. Your rationale is likely as good as anyone's in this arena. Just remember to keep re-evaluating as you meet new ideas or think things through further, and don't be afraid to ditch old ideas or even re-adopt some as your thought processes develop. I always go back to Fort's dictum: "I conceive of nothing, in religion, science, or philosophy, that is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I am gradually crafting a spiritual life for myself, but I have not found any organized movement that embodies it. That seems to be the conclusion of Watts. Religion appears to be the natural enemy of spirituality, though that's what they purport to be selling. Religion is codified as the "only and absolute truth" no shades of grey, just black and white. As opposed to "spirituality" which encompasses a great many shades of gray. I suppose that is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondReligiosity Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 I've not watched any of this Alan Watts' bloke's stuff, but, from my personal perspective, and on the basis that spirituality is just that (i.e, personal) his ideas should be nothing more than a source for you to find concepts to play with. If what someone else says makes little sense to you, then reject it. Your rationale is likely as good as anyone's in this arena. Just remember to keep re-evaluating as you meet new ideas or think things through further, and don't be afraid to ditch old ideas or even re-adopt some as your thought processes develop. I always go back to Fort's dictum: "I conceive of nothing, in religion, science, or philosophy, that is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while". Thanks, Ellinas. Your thoughts reflect mine on this. I have resolved to approach my new spirituality with some tentativeness, staying open to new perspectives and information. I've discovered some new perspective through journaling and my approach to prayer. It involves, like you Deva, some perspective that greatly parallels certain beliefs I held as a Christian. I now perceive I was operating according to some universal laws back then, though I no longer attribute it to the intervention of the biblical God. Thanks, guys for the comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Deism is an option, if a form of rational spirituality is what someone is seeking. The downside of deism for some is the lack of an organization & social structure. There is also the absence of prayer, sin, forgiveness & ritual which is a positive for some & a negative for others. Many former Xians who say they are seeking spirituality I tend to think are really looking for a liberal non-legalistic form of Xianity. They like the idea of having God or a God in their life but without all the religious rules & dogma. Seeking a form of spirituality is common for people who have recently left their religion. It's natural to try & find something to fill the void that leaving religion creates. I have nothing against spirituality. I tried Deism when I de-converted but after examining it closer I saw no real purpose in it. I am no longer seeking any form of spirituality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Hi, ExC'! I have recently become open to some kind of spirituality after the long process of and healing from deconversion from Christianity. The foundational reason is that science doesn't disprove "something more" and I'm inclined to believe there is because I perceive that there is no satisfying explanation for existence itself. I've no idea what that "something more" is, but I'm open to learning. This openness was won long and hard and I had to make an agreement with myself in my recovery from religiosity. One thing I now choose is to balance my life with other interests and coping skills, not becoming so wrapped up and fixated with spirituality that, if I find my perspective in need of correction or expansion, I will not be so invested that I'm devastated. Another thing is not to seek certainty regarding any perspective or belief system. In "Varieties of Religious Experience," by William James, he speaks of a "gated community of the mind" and it does follow that certainty or believing that one has arrived at any final truth limits openness to learning, growing and having one's perspective expanded. I choose to seek a sense of security in my life outside of certainty (any suggestions on how to do this are very much appreciated). I'm quite interested in hearing others' thoughts on these things. Have you discovered a new spirituality for yourself? If so, what makes more sense about it? How is it different from your previous faith in that it's healthier? If you don't mind sharing, what you believe and why? BR, You seem to be on the right track. What you learned from Varieties of Religious Experience is something I learned also, but not from there. I'm not sure what you can really find in terms of security without clinging to a religion and convincing yourself it provides security. I've grown my own spirituality quite a bit outside of religious affiliation. As a civilian scientist i approach it with scientific method. Form a hypothesis, Ask questions, gather data (experience), reevaluate, modify hypothesis (adjust spiritual beliefs). It's a learning experience As you're already doing, the important thing is to keep asking questions and never know anything for certain. It's the only way to grow spirituality. Spirituality is half made up of unknowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Only half? I must have gone wrong somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I guess I could be considered a deist. I do believe that there is some type of higher consciousness beyond what we can see, but I don't believe any type of human religion (whether Xianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or whatever) could encompass it or define all the answers. That's why I shun religious dogma--that, and all the harm and oppression that dogma causes in people's lives. I believe there was some type of intelligence that set the science of our formation into place. But in terms of whether that intelligence is a relatable "God" or simply a living breathing universe, I don't think we'll be able to know. I also believe in life on other planets. With all the uncountable stars out there, and planets for a great many of them, I think it's dogmatic and narrow-minded to insist that we are the only intelligent life there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts