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Goodbye Jesus

Another Way To Interpret Christianity (Would Also Love Input From Christians)


Lyra

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For theoretical purposes of this discussion, let's just [suspend disbelief and] assume that Jesus was a real spiritual leader who had some type of higher consciousness and link to a higher energy. I don't mean Biblegod, but a loving creator in more of a Universalist way.

 

His message was essentially "stop being hung-up about the religious laws and social customs, and treat everyone with love and compassion instead. That's the 'secret' of what matters in life."

 

When he said things like "I am the way, truth and life" and "No one can reach the father but by me," I interpret this to mean like "Put down the stupid religious crap and just focus on my message of kindness." 

 

And concepts like "sin" and "hell" could refer to things on earth. For example, if everyone treated each other with generous love and kindness, there would be no evils in this world -- no murder, rape, slavery, oppression, bigotry, etc., because people would respect and take care of each other. "Sin" could just mean "things that don't come from kindness" or "things that tear others down" (others can also include animals and the environment), instead of the stupid rules about drinking, sex, gayness, gender roles, proper ways to worship, or whatever other idiocy that religious people want to police. Actually, Jesus turned water into wine (according to the legend, I'm not saying it was real) so they could continue to party at a wedding feast, and he hung out with the social outcast and shunned the Pharisees, which were like the Pat Robertsons of his day.

 

As far as the "Great Sacrifice" thing, it could just be like a "Hey, dude, thanks for coming down from your mega-enlightened super plane to share your message of peace with us, even though it meant you had to get brutally murdered in the end. We appreciate what you did to help us make our world and lives better." Not the interpretation that so many fundies/Pharisees have today, of "zomg you're all destined to hell unless you believe our religion is the right one."

 

If this is a legit way to view Christianity, I would be much more open to it than, say, the Baptist Evangelical versions.

 

What do you all think? Again, from a theological/philosophical perspective, not a debate about reality. I don't believe that any human will ever have a 100% certainty about truths of the universe in this lifetime, but I do believe there's something up there. I lean towards deism or universalism for this reason.

 

Peace and chillz,

Lyra

 

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Your cleaned-up notion of Jesus sounds a lot like . . . Mr. Rogers . . . to be honest. I'm not being trying to be a smart-ass, but the idea of treating everybody with respect (doing unto others as you would have them do unto you) is not rocket science. It's not Christianity, it's just being a decent human being, without needing any of the trappings of Christianity or any other religion.

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i agree.

 

But wasn't Jesus's main message basically just "don't be a douchebag"?

 

What I'm saying is, the exclusive nature of "I am the only way blah blah" could have originally been meant as "look, none of the religious shit matters, just don't be a douche." but instead, the pharisees of that time just morphed into the fundies of today over thousands of years, and we still have the stupid religious shit, hence totally missing the point of Jesus' "don't be a douche" message. Lots of "Christians" are still douches, hence, the "many will claim to be Christians, but I"ll say I never knew you" thing.

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Logical Fallacy had some very well-thought out points regarding  this, but he had a tech error and couldn't post here for some reason. So he PM'd me the message so I could copy-paste and share it

 

Logical Fallacy's intelligent take is below. I hadn't remembered  those nastier parts of the Bible, but Jesus himself did say some pretty unloving things that weaken my original post. 

 

 


Hi Lyra

Well I can't post to that forum where you posted the title piece so I'll PM you directly. You can copy this PM into the discussion if you wish.

I think from a theology point of view you can interpret various parts of Jesus message to say be a good person etc. (Sermon on the mount as an example)

However all we have to go off are the words in the Bible. If we don't force any interpretation on the Bible, and just read it as is the message wasn't just be good. The message was follow me, be meek mild and loving, follow the commandments, I call many, but only few are chosen, those chosen few will enter the kingdom of heaven, the rest will be thrown into outer darkness.

I think to get a perfectly sweet loving Jesus you have to ignore certain Bible passages. E.g. "I come not to bring peace to the world, but a sword. To turn father against son, mother against daughter" These types of passages contradict the basic be good and don't get all hung up on religion message you are proposing.

I think the whole issue comes down to interpretation. Everyone has a different way of interpreting meanings when the original content is not clear. You can interpret Jesus message to be kind and loving, or equally to interpret it to be one of follow him or face the judgment to come. This is why we have xteen dozen denominations.

In saying that, I believe the fundamental evangelical types are truer in their interpretation than others. They are taking the bible as it was written, not how they wish to interpret it. If there was a divine God who inspired the Bible, I think that god would have the bible so written so that it didn't need interpretation - i.e. follow it how it is written.

Those are my thoughts.

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Theologically and philosophically, I would be forced to ask "Do we really need yet another way of interpreting that blasted book?"

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Ellinas, on a practical note I agree with you, however the thought exercise is interesting.

 

Lyra, (Yay I can post here!) regarding one of your opening thoughts: "His message was essentially "stop being hung-up about the religious laws and social customs, and treat everyone with love and compassion instead. That's the 'secret' of what matters in life."

 

I thought the other day, in addition to the points I have already made, so where did the idea of an eternal burning hell come from? You don't find it in the Old testament... you find stuff like stone people, and kill people, and... stuff like that in the old testament. You find the idea of an eternal burning hell comes from *Gasp* yep Jesus.

 

My personal opinion is if you want to make your Jesus a kind loving one, you can use the bible to support it. If you want to make Jesus a judgemental warlike person you can also use the bible to support it. I think peoples ideas of Jesus says more about the people and what they think, rather than what Jesus message was, and whether he actually was actually the son of god.

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Jesus also said the law would never pass away. I'm not spiritual, but I think that might be the alternative that is being suggested in the OP. Spirituality generally doesn't have laws, rules, & commands or financial commitments. As I understand it spirituality seeks wisdom & oneness with nature or the supernatural realm or whatever.

 

Deism is kind of sort of a spiritual thing.

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This line of thinking is prevalent in the new age/spiritual movements. They all claim that what jesus said should not be taken literally. Hell was only a spiritual metaphor that a person experiences here on earth from not believing in god etc. They like to say that jesus mission was to bring us back to walking with god, not about sin, judgement etc. They also like to claim that all the bad stuff jesus said was later added in by someone else, because, well jesus is love, and he would never say all those nasty horrible things about people and what they deserved in the after life. My favorite story about the life of jesus and who he really was and what he really said and did comes from psychic sylvia browne's book "the mystical life of jesus." It's total b.s., but I have to admit she puts up a good argument that actually makes more sense than the gospels themselves. 

 

(Disclaimer: I do not believe in psychics like sylvia browne. I found the book at the library and checked it out for entertainment purposes only.) 

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  • 4 weeks later...

On your original post Lyra, I think you're on the right track. Once i left religion and started learning from others, this was pretty much the way things were pointing. You could simplify even further too. Self sacrifice and higher energies. The best people in the world, good people, people from everywhere and every walk are this way.

There comes a point where we all need to draw lines across just how much bullshit we're willing to take from others.

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Despite all the creeds and the attempt to get people in line, it now seems apparent that in a very real sense there are almost as many versions of Christianity as there are Christians. Happily, the days when it was possible for those of the "true" Faith to persecute others are over.

 

It seems that many are able to live a perfectly good life free of beliefs that in my view belong to the infancy of the human race.

 

The only "revelation" is Reality itself, the only teacher is life.

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