wakafaka

Relapsing Back To Christianity

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wakafaka    7

I have decided over the last few years that god dosnt really exist .I grew up in a strong Christian family and its seems that every time that I feel like I break away from being a Christian bad things happen to me like god is punishing me for not beliving,Needing some encorugement to break this way of thinking.

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◊ Jeff ◊    1,420

Welcome.

Everything got better for me so it's not god you know.

 

Make sure that you're changing how you make decisions etc as you deconvert. If you have bad learned thinking patterns, you'll need to change those.

Just deconverting doesn't fix things. It just sets you free to make the changes based on reason rather than magic thinking.

Hang in there

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florduh    4,187

There is no punishment from any gods. Even the Bible says that rain falls on both the just and unjust. In today's vernacular, shit happens.

 

Brainwashing is a bitch!

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sdelsolray    1,687

Humans have excellent pattern recognition skills.  Often they are too good.  Some see a picture of someone on a piece of toast, or an animal in a cloud.  That's fine.  However, many go beyond this and causally attribute the observation to something else.  For example, with the picture on the piece of toast, some might say that it resembles some god and that it must be a message from that god to not do something, or do something, etc.

 

When my wife and I bought a newer car for here to drive, all of a sudden I noticed how many of that brand/model of car were on the road.  Was that because all of a sudden many other folks bought that same brand/model and were now driving them?  Of course not.  It was because I was more apt to notice these cars becuase of my recent experience with buying one.

 

Your statement, "it seems that every time that I feel like I break away from being a Christian bad things happen to me like god is punishing me for not believing" is likely an example of pattern recognition gone awry.

 

I suggest you study the following concepts with a focus on how you might distinguish them when they appear in your day to day life:

 

causation

correlation

coincidence

non-sequitur

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midniterider    2,976

I have decided over the last few years that god dosnt really exist .I grew up in a strong Christian family and its seems that every time that I feel like I break away from being a Christian bad things happen to me like god is punishing me for not beliving,Needing some encorugement to break this way of thinking.

 

So, God is punishing you for not believing in him? Seems harsh for such a supposed loving God.

 

Try taking a look at your life's good and bad moments and whether you were a Christian at that time or not. Certainly you had some bad moments as a Christian? (I got divorced while I was a Christian) So you feel that God might be  punishing you but of course it's hard to tell for sure because the almighty God has a still small voice? (Contradictory ideas about God placed together and underlined) Maybe God could communicate better. As a Christian I heard a lot of "I think God wants me to do X." Is that the best God can do? I have to chalk that up to imagination, not communication.

 

Your post sounds like one of the fear mechanisms to keep you in the fold. IMO religion is a psychological phenomenon. It's a battle within yourself caused by different emotions and concepts.

 

But you know, why do you have to make a decision that God exists or God doesn't exist? Some people call themselves Christians and never pray or go to church. If it helps you feel better to accept that there is a God then forget about him, that might work.

 

Bottom line, shit happens whether you believe in God or not. You can react to it in several ways. How did you react to bad stuff while you were a Christian?

 

Bad thing happens: Christian might say "Praise God! He's testing me! I'll be strong for him."

Bad thing happens: Non-believer might say, "I'll get through it. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I'll be strong for me."

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Storm    611

Much in the same way it was when you were a believer, you have to trust yourself and the way you think.

 

Christianity taught you to trust in a being that you couldn't experience with any of your senses. You had to merely "believe" and it essentially became true to you over time. As pointed out by sdelsolray above, you began to attribute things as being part of God's plan and interaction in your life. You relied on everything but your brain in order to be a Christian.

 

Now you are doing the opposite. You are relying entirely on your brain and the way you think and experience your senses. You are essentially re-wiring your brain and that takes time. Your brain likes to be comfortable in what it thinks and believes, and right now in this process, you are making it uncomfortable. It wants what it knows and can work with, and to be comfortable. You have to trust the process in your leaving the faith you have held in your life. It gets easier. Your brain becomes more comfortable and you start to see things much more clearly and its refreshing.

 

There is a lot to unpack in what you are leaving. Things constantly remind you of the faith you left. People remind you of the faith you left. You desperately want to be a part of that community. I know, because I miss parts of it. A lot, at times. But I cannot possibly go back to Christianity now that I know what it really is. Just a worldview. Just a religion. Nothing more.

 

I like to point out to myself that I, as a mere human, can easily best a so called divine, perfect being in my ability to prove my love to everyone, and to "save " them. Christianity teaches that God loves everyone so much and that he wants what is best for us. But yet his very bible is vague and skewed by thousands of years of being in human hands. His very "instruction manual" is old and antiquated and doesn't translate to our current world very well at all.  He is completely absent in this world apart from the lives of his followers. If I truly wanted to share my love with "my creation" I certainly wouldn't be invisible in the world I created. I certainly would make it very clear what I want from my people. I would not leave it vague and easily misunderstood.

 

I want to ease your mind and let you know that what you are experiencing is completely normal. Its a part of the process. You aren't being punished. You are just developing a new way of thinking and seeing the world.

 

Everything you have ever learned about God has come from a human. Think about that for a moment. Everything. You have never seen him, heard him, felt him. He is all in your head.

 

Hang in there. You will be fine. It will take work, but I promise, its worth it to stay the course and be free from Christianity.

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wakafaka    7

Thanks everyone for the encouragement.I think that my main problem is that I learned to rely on Christianity for everything and was brainwashed to think that way.It was how I felt comfortable not having to take responsibility for myself.I will make it past this.

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It was always easier to just say the phrase: "It's all part of God's plan." or "I'm being tested." or my personal favorite: "God gives his toughest challenges to his best soldiers!"

Why would a God need to test you anyhow? Think about that for a while. Why would all powerful, all knowing, all encompassing God need to test you? He supposedly already knows what you'll do anyhow, he is the Alpha and Omega after all. It's asinine.

You said it best, it's a poison that brainwashes the mind. Cleansing that poison is what is important. Good luck.

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Margee    3,492

Thanks everyone for the encouragement.I think that my main problem is that I learned to rely on Christianity for everything and was brainwashed to think that way.It was how I felt comfortable not having to take responsibility for myself.I will make it past this.

 

Welcome To Ex-c wakafaka. The posts above are excellent. Keep reading the testimonies so you will know you are not alone. Coming out of brainwashing takes a good amount of time for a lot of us. Keep posting what you are feeling. Someone is always here to help you. So glad you are here with us.

 

(hug)

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well, USA got Donald Trump as president.

 

it shows there is no god,,,,,,

 

hahaha. joking

 

anyway, shit happens daily, and now you can't blame on god, and probably stressing you a little bit more, the coping thing of god is in control is no longer available,,,,

 

learn to cope, it gets easier each day

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MOHO    447

Waka,

 

It gets easier. Truly!

And you get stronger (more apt to repel propaganda and indoctrination attempts) with each passing week.

 

I can now say that I can read Bible passages, hear the fundies clam that God is talking to them, and even listen to parts the most experienced and cunning pastors w/out "falling" back into the fold.

 

Each time I hear some xtian nonsense I think of, just exactly, how those individuals are brainwashed and how the mind works. In addition I think of how perfectly the xitan talk, not only shows how indoctrinated the person is, but how perfectly the indoctrination is tailored to how the mind works.

 

As you begin to repel the fundie nonsense concentrate on always thinking of how scientifically impossible the indoctrination is - in addition to how well it is tailored to take advantage of you. Keep doing this. It will reverse your brainwashing.

 

Hang in there and keep reading here....

 

--- MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

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Discern    254

What's messed up is that God is up there apparently punishing you, but you don't really know that for sure. Is it just coincidence or is it really because you doubted his existence? What kind of messed up father is that? What dad punishes his child but doesn't clearly tell them why? Just makes them sit in the dark, their mind in torment making guesses as to why they're being punished. 

That just doesn't make sense coming from a supposedly loving God. If God is going to punish you for something, he needs to get off his ass, come down, and make it crystal clear what he's doing and why he's doing it. Otherwise it's his own damn fault if you don't 'listen' to him.

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DeadTOm    118

I made the conscious decision that I was no longer a christian when I was twenty-five years old. It probably took another five or six years to completely shed all of the fears and beliefs that I had accumulated over those twenty-five years, growing up in the church. The idea of a god watching and scrutinizing every aspect of your life takes some time to shake. It's a habit, like any other. 

What you need to try and focus on is recognizing those old habits when you do them. What you'll notice is that, at first, it can take hours or even days to realize that you've fallen into some old christian belief and let it dictate your behavior, so you shake it off, adjust your thinking about that particular incident and move on. Then it happens again, and again, and again... and that's normal. What you'll see is that, if you consciously acknowledge what you did each time you do it, that time between doing it and realizing you did it will start to shrink. After while, you'll begin to recognize the situations that lead to those incidents, and you'll start dealing with them or viewing them differently so that they stop happening all together. One day you'll realize that it's been weeks since it happened, then months, then years.

It's actually a rehab process. Addicts, people with anger issues and the like, they go through the same thing and to be honest, it's really no different. 

Just keep at it, you'll be fine. Don't get too down on yourself for it. We've all been there.

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Waka, one of my Christian friends recently said as we went to eat "We haven't said grace yet" (I'm am now not saying grace or closing my eyes - they still do I have no issue with that) Anyways I replied "you are right, we haven't"... did a double take then realized I'd slipped into a deep ingrained habitual response.

I haven't been an "official" Christian for 4 months, and I stopped believing in God some 9 months ago. At the point described above I realized that this was not a quick change of beliefs and I'm done.... it could take years to readjust. BUT I also realized that I was AWARE of my thoughts and behavior patterns and thus can work on them.

So don't be worried, and realized that this feeling of things going wrong is only because you are now hyper aware of what's going on in your life, possibly due to an ingrained fear of hell or God punishing you for 'sinning'.

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♦ ficino ♦    1,637

God. Omni-everything. Love as to His nature.

Sees world He created, is weirded out. So drowns kittens, puppies, bunnies.  Parrots. Snails. Little children.

Tells a dude to make a boat. The boat, with millions of species of insects and bacteria and shit, sails on past the drowning kittens, puppies, bunnies, human tykes. Their little limbs trying to swim as long as they can, then sinking. Except for the ones that the sharks ate.

All because Yahweh fucked up the first time and needed a do-over.

Can we all get beyond this horror? Both the horror construed literally, and the horror spun into a myth with a deep spiritual message? What spiritual message is there in a story of a powerful agent torturing little creatures to undo its own production?

Simple stories for simple people. The Bible is a flawed human document. Flawed as we all are. Let's just let it be that.

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 1:20 PM, Storm said:

Everything you have ever learned about God has come from a human. Think about that for a moment. Everything. You have never seen him, heard him, felt him. He is all in your head.

 

This is like an "at the end of the day" statement. 

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, Travi said:


Why would a God need to test you anyhow? Think about that for a while. Why would all powerful, all knowing, all encompassing God need to test you? He supposedly already knows what you'll do anyhow, he is the Alpha and Omega after all. It's asinine.
 

Related to this, I also wonder why is Satan's existence necessary?  Seems like it would be hard enough for humans to try and co-exist with each other peacefully as-is, without the need for this supernatural entity to tempt and test people. 

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MOHO    447
13 hours ago, readyforchange said:

This is like an "at the end of the day" statement. 

Two of you (Storm and ReadyForChange) have mentioned that "Everything you have ever experienced about god has come from a human" concept.

 

Even the book states that it's contents are not the word of god but "INSPIRED" by god. Who SAID the words were inspired by god. Two sources - the writer, and those very few who sat around a table, likely enjoying some "grape juice" and collectively deciding which writings would end up in the book. Those few went on to establish the greatest on-going ripoff the world has ever know - the Catholic church.

 

So, yes, think about the fact that no one, in our time, has ever claimed to have anything but a "feeling" that god communicated with them. And those who did claim to "speak" to god, or hear his voice, made said claims a very very long time ago and, even in their words, there was no one around to corroborate the conversation.

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wakafaka    7

Just wanted to give everyone a update. I did the same thing the I have read several times on here. I prayed and pleaded that if god was indeed real for him to show me. I have seen no evidence. I am working on getting over this god virus. Thank you all for the encouragement im becoming more comfortable being a atheist.

 

 

 

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Storm    611

Much like taking a trip to somewhere you have never been before, as you spend more time there, it becomes more familiar to you. You start to develop a sense of awareness as to where you are and what to do.

 

It is the same with leaving your faith. There's a lot of uncomfortable feelings and situations you will find yourself in. But you will be fine.

 

One thing that Christianity has such a hard time with is the inability to be ok with not knowing. But it is ok to not know. Its ok to say you don't know. So if you get pressed for an answer by a believer or if you find yourself struggling to get an answer about something, remember its ok to not know. Its ok to say "I would like to find out, but I don't know the answer now".

 

It gets easier. I promise. Hang in there. Come back here and continue to share your feelings, your struggles, and reach out for help. There's a lot of people here who care about you and want to see you be the best you can be.

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DarkBishop    416

 

Waka,

      I actually had the opposite experience. I was having trouble before I left the church. I was still a believer but I was confused because I saw God's people and myself always getting the short end of the stick. There were other reasons for me leaving but that was one reason. I felt like he was being a very shitty father to have all power and not throw his children some blessing from time to time.

       My life started getting better after I left. I got a better and higher paying job. My wife and I got through a rough patch and grew closer together. My children's grades even got better. It got to the point that I thought well God loves me he just doesn't like me. I actually felt like he just didn't want me in heaven....... that me n him just couldn't get along, that maybe i had messed up to many times as a christian and i was now unworthy er something. Even so I would still pray for him to heal my faith and put me back on the right track.

       Now I know that the bible is an evolved mythology from pagan origins which contradicts it's own teachings. Like others have said above. Shit happens to everyone. It doesn't mean a supreme being has put a target on your back. You'll get through this. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dark Bishop

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ExPCA    103
10 hours ago, Storm said:

Its ok to say "I would like to find out, but I don't know the answer now".

 

Yep, it's ok to have doubt. Many 'religious' people will see doubt as sinfulness, weakness, and unbelief in god and jesus and the bible. I think doubt is simply where the growth is happening and opinions are not fully formed. My mistake in christian discourse is that I never formed a backbone and always agreed with everyone and everything.

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♦ ficino ♦    1,637
19 hours ago, ExPCA said:

 

Yep, it's ok to have doubt. Many 'religious' people will see doubt as sinfulness, weakness, and unbelief in god and jesus and the bible. I think doubt is simply where the growth is happening and opinions are not fully formed. My mistake in christian discourse is that I never formed a backbone and always agreed with everyone and everything.

Hey ExPCA, did you ever get into the teachings of Cornelius Van Til? I sat in on one of his classes at Westminster years ago, and went to his house for tea with some other theology students. 

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ExPCA    103
52 minutes ago, ficino said:

Hey ExPCA, did you ever get into the teachings of Cornelius Van Til? I sat in on one of his classes at Westminster years ago, and went to his house for tea with some other theology students. 

 

No, not directly. But I am in the search of some valuable reading, so thanks! I am sure it was great to chat with a thelogian/philosopher of that caliber. You went to seminary?!

 

After looking Van Til up, it seems he is most noted for his view of presuppositionalism.

 

Presuppositional apologetics is the view/argument that christianity is the only basis for rational thought. This concept seems to be where a lot of my posts are dancing around -- the fact that christians start their arguments in a way that only allows for their position to be strengthened whether winning or losing.

 

In other words, the fact that a christian is arguing with a nonbeliever is evidence that the nonbeliever is questioning his fallen, sinful lifestyle. It would be perceived by the christian that their conversation was divinely predestined and that the nonbeliever was providentially called to listen to god's word out of the christian's mouth.

 

During my time with christians, I can say that this presupposed 'rightness' happens almost all the time. However, like I've mentioned, a lot of christian belief cannot be fully practiced and believed by mortal human beings. My point is that christians live lives of complete hypocrisy, never able to truly practice their religion, but confident using their mouthpieces to spew judgement of others because they are already correct.

 

I've had lunch with many pastors and it was essentially a session of examining my behavior and having him tell me where it is wrong and asking me to read scripture. I found that the only easy way to cope with presuppositional apologetics is to not open my mouth which merely gave them more footholds for their superior and special knowledge of my innermost thoughts and desires.

 

Presuppositional apologetics is definitely where my headache is with christianity at the moment so thanks for pointing that concept out.

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♦ ficino ♦    1,637

At that age, and as a still on fire Christian, later Calvinist, I thought Van Til was really deep. I started reading things written by him and eventually got onto other topics.

 

A college friend of mine went to Westminster when Van Til was either already retired or shortly to be retired. My friend wrote this to me the other day: "Van Til was a Reformed ideologue.  These types of people are very dangerous when they meet up with college aged men and women.  The former, despite a certain cleverness they may possess, have abandoned critical thinking for specious metaphysical stories.  The latter have not yet learned to think critically and lack sufficient knowledge to withstand their definitive sounding speculations."

 

A certain John Robbins has posted a severe critique of Van Til's thought:

 

http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=33

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