Had to Remove... :(

[Shinobi]

Can't continue on this path. The world is messed up enough as it is.  Sorry, family.

[Geezer]

It would be dishonest not to acknowledge the good things religious people have done, but that does not nullify the negative things they are guilty of either. All religions have human origins & members & humans are well, human.

 

I recognize there is a pretty big difference between fundamentalists & liberal versions of Christianity. It's the Fundies that tend to be bat shit crazy. Maybe that is because liberal versions of Xianity don't generally interpret the Bible literally, so they seem less likely to run off the rails. 

 

The fundies tend to view liberal Xians as little more than religious social clubs & they kind of are. I have no interest in either group & I try to keep my distance from them.

[Shinobi]

On 3/21/2017 at 8:36 AM, Geezer said:

It would be dishonest not to acknowledge the good things religious people have done, but that does not nullify the negative things they are guilty of either. All religions have human origins & members & humans are well, human.

 

I recognize there is a pretty big difference between fundamentalists & liberal versions of Christianity. It's the Fundies that tend to be bat shit crazy. Maybe that is because liberal versions of Xianity don't generally interpret the Bible literally, so they seem less likely to run off the rails. 

 

The fundies tend to view liberal Xians as little more than religious social clubs & they kind of are. I have no interest in either group & I try to keep my distance from them.

.................

[Geezer]

I have a friend who has suggested that I look at Christianity as Christian Mythology and has suggested I become familiar with the works of Joseph Campbell. I am just beginning to investigate his books. Campbell teaches there is great power in myth if it is interpreted correctly. Myth of course being a story or symbols with a deeper often hidden meaning. He isn't promoting religion he's encouraging people to seek the deeper meaning of life.

 

I am not normally interested in that sort of thing, but since a lot of his stuff is historical in nature I have read excerpts from several of his books and watched some youtube video. What I've read has pique my interest enough to continue researching his material. At the very least he is interesting to read.

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

15 hours ago, Shinobi said:

Belief is important...  Yeah, I know.  Some of you are probably thinking that I'm about to write a testimony where I go completely off the rails.  But, before you jump to conclusions, just hear me out.

 

The reason I state that belief is important is because I'm nearly 100% convinced that it's true.  The Bible doesn't have a lot of good advice, but that doesn't mean that everything written in it is completely wrong either.  For example, the book of Proverbs is full of practical life advice, and not every teaching of Christ is completely without merit.  Of course, that's not to say that everything in Proverbs falls into the category of sound advice or that everything Christ taught is to be admired either.

 

 

You are very right here. Too many atheists simply want to throw the bible out, instead of looking at it as ancient literature of peoples musings - some of it true and wise... some of it terribly wrong. Fault this set of versus from Paul if you can:

 

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance."

 

That could come straight out of a modern day inspirational quote - it was written 1800-2000 years ago.

 

If you could pull all the good bits from all religions, and discard the rest you'd have a pretty good system by which to live by.... which is why it's worth studying many religions.

 

[Shinobi]

On 3/21/2017 at 4:18 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You are very right here. Too many atheists simply want to throw the bible out, instead of looking at it as ancient literature of peoples musings - some of it true and wise... some of it terribly wrong. Fault this set of versus from Paul if you can:

 

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance."

 

That could come straight out of a modern day inspirational quote - it was written 1800-2000 years ago.

 

If you could pull all the good bits from all religions, and discard the rest you'd have a pretty good system by which to live by.... which is why it's worth studying many religions.

 

......................

[TABA]

7 hours ago, Geezer said:

I have a friend who has suggested that I look at Christianity as Christian Mythology and has suggested I become familiar with the works of Joseph Campbell. I am just beginning to investigate his books. Campbell teaches there is great power in myth if it is interpreted correctly. Myth of course being a story or symbols with a deeper often hidden meaning. He isn't promoting religion he's encouraging people to seek the deeper meaning of life.

 

I am not normally interested in that sort of thing, but since a lot of his stuff is historical in nature I have read excerpts from several of his books and watched some youtube video. What I've read has pique my interest enough to continue researching his material. At the very least he is interesting to read.

 

 

 

Geezer if you ever want to discuss Joseph Campbell, our friend Joshpantera is a big fan.  I've started watching Campbell's 'The Power of Myth' interviews with Bill Moyers.  Fascinating. 

[Geezer]

1 hour ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Geezer if you ever want to discuss Joseph Campbell, our friend Joshpantera is a big fan.  I've started watching Campbell's 'The Power of Myth' interviews with Bill Movers.  Fascinating. 

 

My friend Agricola over at ex-Church of Christ.com is a big fan too. She recommended Campbell but I didn't follow up until JP mentioned him in a post I read today. I've spent a good portion of the day watching his videos on YouTube & reading excerpts from several of his books. 

 

He is interesting but I haven't formed an opinion yet. 

[TABA]

4 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You are very right here. Too many atheists simply want to throw the bible out, instead of looking at it as ancient literature of peoples musings - some of it true and wise... some of it terribly wrong. 

 

 

I think there are some good reasons to want to throw the Bible out.   If the Bible were just treated as a collection of ancient literature, it would be one thing.  But billions believe it is inspired by God, and hundreds of millions believe that every single word of it is the literal word of God.  I fear that as long as this Holy Book is around, there is the potential for extreme groups, even cults, to seize upon it and who knows what harm might be done.  It's the same with the Koran: Iran and Afghanistan were modernizing countries as recently as the 1970s, with women and girls enjoying unprecedented freedom.  But now it's all gone backward through much of the Muslim world, thanks to scripture being used to justify a return to medievalism.  And it's all God's will.

[Shinobi]

On 3/21/2017 at 8:50 PM, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

I think there are some good reasons to want to throw the Bible out.   If the Bible were just treated as a collection of ancient literature, it would be one thing.  But billions believe it is inspired by God, and hundreds of millions believe that every single word of it is the literal word of God.  I fear that as long as this Holy Book is around, there is the potential for extreme groups, even cults, to seize upon it and who knows what harm might be done.

,,,,,,,,

[TABA]

Hi Shinobi!  No, I didn't mean to suggest that the Bible should be banned; that would be hugely counterproductive.  I agree with you that our goal should be a world where this and other scriptures are treated as fascinating parts of human history, products of a purely manmade theology, like the system of Greek and Roman gods,   I think that goal may be reached in the distant  future. 

 

I guess what I was trying to say is that the Bible (and Koran) currently have the potential to do far more harm than good and that if I had my way, they would magically disappear without trace in the memory of humans. 

 

Touching on something you mentioned earlier, I believe that in he world today, Islam is causing much more harm and human suffering than Christianity.  That might not have always been true in ages past, and might not always be true in the future. 

 

[Shinobi]

On 3/22/2017 at 9:10 AM, ThereAndBackAgain said:

Touching on something you mentioned earlier, I believe that in he world today, Islam is causing much more harm and human suffering than Christianity.  That might not have always been true in ages past, and might not always be true in the future. 

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[TABA]

8 hours ago, Shinobi said:

So, yes, I think you are right when you say that Islam is causing more harm in the world right now than Christianity.  Nonetheless, under the right set of circumstances, Christianity, if left unchecked, could once again become the societal menace that it once was.

 

I think we're in full agreement, Shinobi.  Since my deconversion, I have become increasingly convinced not only that theism is unsound, but that it's positively harmful to humankind.  

 

By the way, welcome to our community!  Youve only been active a short time but you've contributed a lot already.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 3/21/2017 at 1:32 AM, Shinobi said:

Belief is important...  Yeah, I know.  Some of you are probably thinking that I'm about to write a testimony where I go completely off the rails.  But, before you jump to conclusions, just hear me out.

 

 

I agree with you 100% on this. I think I said this before in my testimony but I came across one of my friends that was a pantheist (once was an athiest) and I didn't know it. He actually goes to an episcopal church because it is one of the most liberal of Christian churches, but he doesn't view the bible as literal at all. He holds a pantheistic view that God is in everything and everything is God. 

     I told him what had happened to my faith and he shared his views with me. He told me that he hopes I never stop believing in something because athiesm is a lonely place to be. While his sentiments on athiesm may not resonate with everyone here I'm sure that most have recieved structured their lives with various goals to fill the void that belief has left behind.

     I think it is very important to believe in something even if it is just yourself, like you said. My leanings are probably that of dualistic panthiesm. I have personally seen and felt what I thought were ghosts or spirits. Which was one issue I had with biblical teaching because it didn't really leave room for a spirit other than the holy ghost to reside on earth. When we died we either went to heaven or hell, or alternatively to the grave to await resurrection. Depending on who was interpreting the bible. So I still believe there is some for of consciousness outside of this existence. And I have expressed my hope that at the very least reincarnation is real. If so this time around I left organized religion in my mid 30s. Maybe next time I'll start figuring stuff out sooner. 

     I also can't believe this earth or any other life bearing planet just spontaneously happened. I think that whatever spiritual energy is out there is what manipulated life giving cells to organise this planet as the life support system that it is. 

     While my beliefs won't be shared by any of the more athiest leaning members of this site at least I can say they are my beliefs and not what I was told to believe. 

     But to get back to your point. Yes some form of belief is important for our human existence. Even if your belief only in tales you setting goals for yourself to reach throughout your life. It gives you a since of purpose and a since of fulfillment when that goal is reached. Right now I have a goal to build a house by paying cash to have it built in 4-5 years. If I reach that goal next it will be to build a garage for said house with a loft apartment, also with cash. I want to be virtually debt free before I retire so that I can have peace of mind financially in my final years. I mentioned before I want to build a Zen Garden as well to focus my own spirituality and meditation. And I have a more urgent goal between now and then to get my body into shape so I can enjoy this life longer. Because just in case I am wrong I want to drag this one out as long as possible because if nothing else I do have a love for life and all the experiences that come along with it.

      Thank you for posting this shinobi. And I'm glad that you found belief in your life after deconversion as well. 

 

Best regards,

            Dark Bishop

[Shinobi]

On 3/26/2017 at 5:03 PM, DarkBishop said:

 

I agree with you 100% on this. I think I said this before in my testimony but I came across one of my friends that was a pantheist (once was an athiest) and I didn't know it. He actually goes to an episcopal church because it is one of the most liberal of Christian churches, but he doesn't view the bible as literal at all. He holds a pantheistic view that God is in everything and everything is God. 

     I told him what had happened to my faith and he shared his views with me. He told me that he hopes I never stop believing in something because athiesm is a lonely place to be. While his sentiments on athiesm may not resonate with everyone here I'm sure that most have recieved structured their lives with various goals to fill the void that belief has left behind.

     I think it is very important to believe in something even if it is just yourself, like you said. My leanings are probably that of dualistic panthiesm. I have personally seen and felt what I thought were ghosts or spirits. Which was one issue I had with biblical teaching because it didn't really leave room for a spirit other than the holy ghost to reside on earth. When we died we either went to heaven or hell, or alternatively to the grave to await resurrection. Depending on who was interpreting the bible. So I still believe there is some for of consciousness outside of this existence. And I have expressed my hope that at the very least reincarnation is real. If so this time around I left organized religion in my mid 30s. Maybe next time I'll start figuring stuff out sooner. 

     I also can't believe this earth or any other life bearing planet just spontaneously happened. I think that whatever spiritual energy is out there is what manipulated life giving cells to organise this planet as the life support system that it is. 

     While my beliefs won't be shared by any of the more athiest leaning members of this site at least I can say they are my beliefs and not what I was told to believe. 

     But to get back to your point. Yes some form of belief is important for our human existence. Even if your belief only in tales you setting goals for yourself to reach throughout your life. It gives you a since of purpose and a since of fulfillment when that goal is reached. Right now I have a goal to build a house by paying cash to have it built in 4-5 years. If I reach that goal next it will be to build a garage for said house with a loft apartment, also with cash. I want to be virtually debt free before I retire so that I can have peace of mind financially in my final years. I mentioned before I want to build a Zen Garden as well to focus my own spirituality and meditation. And I have a more urgent goal between now and then to get my body into shape so I can enjoy this life longer. Because just in case I am wrong I want to drag this one out as long as possible because if nothing else I do have a love for life and all the experiences that come along with it.

      Thank you for posting this shinobi. And I'm glad that you found belief in your life after deconversion as well. 

 

Best regards,

            Dark Bishop

......................

[Abrooks2007]

Shinobi, I got an even BETTER one for you:

 

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' (1 Samuel 15:3)

 

At work, I look at some of our customers with the most beautiful kids and I wonder how "god" could be so sociopathic. :-/

 

-Andrew

New Living Translation

[Shinobi]

On 3/28/2017 at 2:03 AM, Abrooks2007 said:

Shinobi, I got an even BETTER one for you:

 

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' (1 Samuel 15:3)

 

At work, I look at some of our customers with the most beautiful kids and I wonder how "god" could be so sociopathic.

 

-Andrew

New Living Translation

..,.,.,.,.,.,.,,,...,

[Tsathoggua9]

48 minutes ago, Shinobi said:

Yeah, Abrooks, the Bible is full of scriptures that prove how "loving and humane" the Judeo-Christian God is.. Check this one out:  "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." - Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV).  Apparently, the punishment that God prescribes for rape is that the guy who committed the rape has to marry the girl and pay her dad a sum of money.  Oh, and he can't divorce her which subsequently means that the girl who got raped is legally stuck with a psychotic abuser for the rest of her life all because she was unlucky enough to catch his eye.  The "purity, justice, and holiness" exhibited in these verses is almost more than I can comprehend. Wow... just wow.  Smh :/ 

 

Yeah, that is one of the verses that led me to believe, even as a child, that ol' Jehovah was a quite a jerk. (And nonexistent...)

[ShakyLady]

@Shinobi, thank you. I needed this! 

[BobCu]

"I don't know if there is an afterlife."

 

Any child could figure it out. Magic is not real therefore a magical 2nd life is impossible.

 

 

[Ablemate]

I think that the evolution of Islam is following the evolution of Xianity, only its 500 years behind and the world has evolved too.

so instead of knights going on crusades we have terrorists with missiles, bombs, tanks etc.

 

it is possible to trace the growth of Islam as following the growth of Xianity. Criticism of Mohammed is blasphemy as was reading a bible in English. Jihad is crusade or witch hunts. Sunni, Shi-ite, Wahabi etc to mimic Catholic, Protestant, Methodist etc. Extremism is evident in both cases.

Unfortunately Islam has modern technology to help its struggles and modern weapons of mass destruction to aid its battles.

However the opposite is also true. Modern technology also allows greater use of education to open the minds and eyes of followers of Islam. 

We are in trouble if the religious extremists prevail.