God cant exist.

[FreeAtLast]

 

This may already be here, and if so, I apologize. I dont want to take the time to read through 500 pages of threads lol
 
Today, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you:
Logical proofs of Gods non-existence.
 
“But wait”, you may say, “you can't prove a negative!”
 
I beg to differ, you absolutely can if the thing in question is self-contradictory. For example, take this statement:
Married Bachelors exist
Now, how can I know that, somewhere, at some time married bachelors did exist? Because, it cannot exist. It is self-contradictory.
Its very simple. Let’s move on.
 
Next I would like to acquaint you with the square of opposition:
 

Now, this square is very helpful in logical problems. If you don't understand it, I would be happy to explain it to you - or you can take a course on traditional logic and im sure it will come up.
 
As we can see: A (All S is P) and O (Some S is not P) are contradictory.
 
Now allow me to bring this all together and show you how the very nature of the Christian God is contradictory, and thus we can deduce that he cannot exist.
 
1 God can do anything. (Rev 1:8 says he is Almighty)
2 God is immutable (Cannot change because He is perfect - if He changed He would no longer be perfect and thus could no longer be God. Thus, God cannot change) (Also, there are many Bible verses that say that God cannot change, most Christians will even tell you God cannot change).
3 From 2 we can deduce that God cannot do something (Change).
1 and 3 contradict (A statement = God can do anything, O statement = God cannot do something. Refer to square of opposition if this doesn't make sense to you.)
 
Thus, God cannot exist.
 
Some being cannot be able to do anything and not do something at the same time. It is contradictory! The Christian God Himself is logically self-contradictory.
 
Heres another one:
1 God can do anything.
2 God cannot lie (Heb 6:18)
3 From 2 we can deduce that God cannot do something (Lie).
1 and 3 contradict (A statement = God can do anything, O statement = God cannot do something. Refer to square of opposition if this doesn't make sense to you.)
 
Thus, God cannot exist.
 
We can do this over and over for different things, but I wanted to expand and also show logically that no God who is omnipotent and omniscient could exist.
 
Here’s a dialogue I had with someone (paraphrased of course):
 
Me: Is God omnipotent?
Friend: Yes.
Me: Is He omniscient?
Friend: Yes.
Me: So, he knows all things?
Friend: Yes.
Me: And because he knows all things, He cannot not know something.
Friend: Ok.
Me: So He cannot do something.
Friend: What?
Me: He cannot not know. Thats what you said.
Friend: Ok, so what?
Me: He cannot exist.
Friend: HOW?
Me: You said He was omnipotent. According to the definition of that statement, omnipotence means that God can do anything.
Friend: So?
Me: You just said He cannot do something. A being cannot do all things and simultaneously be unable to do something. Thus, God cannot exist.
Friend: Listen, (names “experience” they’ve had with God and asks me how it happened if God isn’t real blah blah blah ughh)
 
Anyways, you guys get the picture. God logically cant exist (at least not an omnipotent omniscient, morally perfect, or immutable God)
 
If you noticed any flaw in what I said, feel free to point it out. I have been thinking a lot about this and this took me a while to put into words.
I would love any feedback you guys could give me.
Thanks!
 

[Geezer]

I'm not certain who said this, it may have been Richard Carrier that  said I can't prove God doesn't exist, but I can prove the God you worship is man made. 

 

That response saves a lot of time & puts the issue in perspective. 

[FreeAtLast]

 

I'm not certain who said this, it may have been Richard Carrier that  said I can't prove God doesn't exist, but I can prove the God you worship is man made. 

Nice. I like that quote!

Richard Carrier is the man. 

[sdelsolray]

There is a flaw in your reasoning.  By demonstrating one attribute/property of a particular god cannot exist you conclude the god itself cannot exist.  All you can conclude is that a god with the contradictory/non-existent attribute cannot exist.  You have not demonstrated that a god without the contradictory/non-existent attribute cannot exist.  This, of course, assumes the particular god has more than one attribute/property.

 

You do address this point at the end of your post, but it seems to be more of an afterthought than a critical item.

[FreeAtLast]

 

There is a flaw in your reasoning.  By demonstrating one attribute/property of a particular god cannot exist you conclude the god itself cannot exist.  All you can conclude is that a god with the contradictory/non-existent attribute cannot exist.  You have not demonstrated that a god without the contradictory/non-existent attribute cannot exist.  This, of course, assumes the particular god has more than one attribute/property.

 

You do address this point at the end of your post, but it seems to be more of an afterthought than a critical item.

Sorry if I came off that way - and your absolutely right.

I should probably rephrase this to "The Christian God" rather than "God" because, your right, people define God in different ways.

Good catch. Thanks!

 

[HisGrace]

I think the "not not do something" part is a bit of a stretch, but I do agree that being both almighty and immutable is a contradiction. Also the arguments that people trot out about god being constrained from doing things by his "holiness", if that were the case he wouldn't be almighty/omnipotent. 

[Ellinas]

The basic concept behind this can be easily demonstrated in this question:

 

Can an omnipotent deity create a weight so heavy that he is unable to lift it?

 

If yes - he is not omnipotent because he cannot lift the weight.

 

If no - he is not omnipotent because he cannot create a weight too heavy for him to lift.

 

As pointed out above, the argument only holds good for a concept of god that alleges omnipotence.  That is not the only concept out there, however practically is the only one that is going to be applicable in dealing with Christians.

[LogicalFallacy]

 

Some being cannot be able to do anything and not do something at the same time. It is contradictory! The Christian God Himself is logically self-contradictory.

 

This is similar to the logic I use regarding whether man has any free will if the Christian God exists, and therefore whether the fall was man's fault or God's plan.

 

Essentially if God is all powerful and all knowing, then nothing man can do can change his will, or his plan.

 

So you cannot logically hold that God is all powerful, all knowing, with a grand plan, and that the fall was mans fault at the same time.... I went through this with poster Stranger who wanted to hold that God's will is absolute, but Adams will went against God's will.... which is a contradiction to God having absolute will.

[Lucy]

I don't think Heb 6:18 is saying god cannot lie. He made two promises to Abraham and swore them as an oath upon himself because he himself is the greatest thing to swear upon. He would not lie about those two things because it was a sworn oath. It wasn't that he was unable to lie, but that he was proving he wasn't lying because he swore those two promises upon himself. If god was incapable of lying, why would it matter that he made an oath upon himself at all? Just saying it would be enough. It seems to be saying that on this particular topic god was definitely not lying. He couldn't lie because he swore an oath upon his own holy name! I'm sure many believers take it to mean he cannot lie, but that doesn't seem to be how the original writers intended.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+6&version=CJB

 

Anyway, as mentioned before, the omni-god is disprovable, but disproving omni-god only shows any god that exists is not omni-anything and that omni-god cannot exist. But all you have to do is redefine his attributes until you are back into the realm of possibility again. The Christian god is just redefined as being as powerful as logically possible and the believer can go on believing.

 

Perhaps Bible god was a liar that told ancient scribes to write epic tales about how awesome he was for his own amusement? You couldn't really disprove that sort of god, but nobody would really want to worship him either.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 
1 God can do anything. (Rev 1:8 says he is Almighty)

 

 

I think "do anything" is too open-ended for this premise to do the work you need it to do. 

 

If we substitute "make a square triangle" for "do anything", then we are saying that something can be A and ~A under the same set of relations. We have annihilated all discourse, since from a contradiction it follows that all statements are true. 

 

I would limit the argument to proving that some set of attributes that entails a contradiction cannot be attributes of God. 

 

If you want to investigate further the entailments of God's being said to be omnipotent, I would do a lot more unpacking of "omnipotent" so that it's clear what qualifications attach to that term as you are using it. If "omnipotent" is going to be said to entail stuff like "will His own non-existence" I don't think your argument is going to gain much cred.