The age of accountabiliy. Is it Biblical?

[Geezer]

In order to be a Christian you would pretty much to believe what you just posted. I could give you a long list of reasons why your "Holy Bible" is anything but holy. It's a collection of man made myths, legends, folklore, and Jewish midrash that reflects the cultural beliefs of the ancient people that wrote it. If you actually studied religious historians instead of apologist you would know that, but it's clear you haven't done that.

 

Every ancient culture had lots of Gods. The God you worship Yahweh was the mythical son of EL a mythical Canaanite War God. The mythical Yahweh produced the mythical Jesus whom you also worship. Dr. Karen Armstrong in her book A History of God, explains all of this and lays it out in a simply way that is easy to follow.

 

[Joefizz]

On 8/12/2017 at 3:58 PM, Geezer said:

The answer of course, is no. There is nothing in scripture that even hints that such a thing exists. It's obvious why believers "wish" the Bible said that, but it doesn't. That is not to say that apologist haven't cut and pasted unrelated scripture to create new scripture, as well as using some imaginative and creative interpretations to make it seem like that doctrine is biblical, but it isn't.

 

The church had to create it or loose a lot of adherents. If parents believed their young children or babies, who had prematurely died from disease or accident, were going to hell because they didn't "believe" in Jesus they'd likely say screw you Jesus we're out of here. The church created this doctrine out of necessity, not because it was theologically correct.

 

Now, lets apply this doctrine to those militant antiabortion Christians. They believe life begins at conception, and a creditable argument can be made for that. Let's assume life does begin at conception and the fetus has a soul the moment conception occurs. If the fetus dies or is aborted, according to the doctrine of the age of accountability, that fetus soul goes directly to heaven to be with God forever. That fetus will never have to suffer ever. It will exists in glory with God forever and ever.

 

Now, lets say the fetus is brought to term and is born. What are the chances this baby will grown into an adult and make it to heaven? The first and obvious problem is that it has to choose the right religion from among a multitude of choices. That assumes this person even has any interest in religion. Not only does this person have to choose the right religion it must also choose the correct sect within that religion since religions tend to have lots of various groups that believe slightly different things. And these various groups tend to not like each other. The next problem is that this person must believe the right things. Some Christians believe the wrong things and will be doomed to spend eternity in hell because of their error.

 

Even if this person manages to find the right religion and believes the right things, they still have to live a faithful life unto death. And then God still has to give them the final approval at the final judgement. So, I seriously ask this question. What are their chances of making it to heaven? Obviously, their chances are slim or close to zero. So, using Christian logic, wouldn't it have been better for them to have been aborted so they could be with God for all eternity?

 

You say that entire scenario is stupid, illogical, and absurd. Yes, it certainly is, but apparently not if you're a Christian.

 

 

as to the overall question of "accountability" such a thing in Christianity's "holy doctrine"'is possibly in it but it is difficult to discern much of what is written,the closest scripture I've found that can at least give an estimate of age accountability for at least teaching is in Luke Chapter 2 verses 42-49 Jesus as example...

"And when he was twelve years old,they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

And when they had fulfilled the days,as they returned,the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem;and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

But they,supposing him to have been in the company,went a day's journey;and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

And when they found him not,they turned back again to Jerusalem,seeking him.

And it came to pass,that after three days they found him in the temple,sitting in the midst of the doctors,both hearing them,and asking them questions.

And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

And when they saw him,they were amazed:and his mother said unto him,Son,why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold,thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

And he said unto them,How is it that ye sought me?wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?(referring to teaching for God) so this portion tells about perhaps that child can teach perhaps for God at 12 years old but it is unclear as to what age a child is accountable for their sins,though this portion gives a rough estimate at least...

On 8/12/2017 at 3:58 PM, Geezer said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Geezer]

I promise you Joe quoting scripture at folks on this site is a bad tactic. We are not uneducated when it comes to the bible. Most of us were long time Christians that served in leadership, preached, taught bible classes and some even served as evangelist. We know what the bible says Joe and we also know that it isn't inerrant or inspired. It's a collection of man made stories commonly called myths.

 

If you think preaching at folks on this site and quoting scripture will work you really need to stop posting and starting reading so you will at least have a clue who you're dealing with.

 

 

[Geezer]

I see you're from TN. Me too. Are you Church of Christ? Your post indicates you might be, or some other ultra conservative fundamentalists group. Trust me Joe, quoting scripture at us is a bad idea. Whatever you think you know about non-believers, atheists, or agnostics is almost certainly wrong. You've been deeply indoctrinated Joe. All of us were too at one time, but we figured out that we'd been brain washed and began thinking critically, logically, and rationally. Education is the cure for brainwashing Joe.

 

 

 

[mwc]

32 minutes ago, Joefizz said:

"And when he was twelve years old,they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

And when they had fulfilled the days,as they returned,the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem;and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

But they,supposing him to have been in the company,went a day's journey;and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

And when they found him not,they turned back again to Jerusalem,seeking him.

And it came to pass,that after three days they found him in the temple,sitting in the midst of the doctors,both hearing them,and asking them questions.

And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

And when they saw him,they were amazed:and his mother said unto him,Son,why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold,thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

And he said unto them,How is it that ye sought me?wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?(referring to teaching for God) so this portion tells about perhaps that child can teach perhaps for God at 12 years old but it is unclear as to what age a child is accountable for their sins,though this portion gives a rough estimate at least...

 

     Whoa!  What is this?  Is this some new thing?  It's absolutely mind blowing.  Do others know about this?

 

     That's quite the stunt he's pulled.  I bet in the next section he really gets it.  He's cost his family a bunch of worry.  Not to mention a week of time with the all the unnecessary travel and searching.  As well as the increased risk they now face traveling home alone.  And the week of addition lost income.  All because of a lie of omission.  I can't wait for you to post the next bit.  I bet his hide gets tanned.  Mine sure would have.

 

          mwc

 

[Deva]

Jofizz:  I think you will quickly discover that the "authority" of the Bible just doesn't hold much weight here.  Even if it did, the passage you quoted only shows that Jesus taught Rabbi's at age 12.  It does not speak to the accountability issue. 

 

Another thing we like here are your actual thoughts and we  also like sentence punctuation (yes, I also read what you wrote in the Introduction section).

 

Trying to be positive here and lend some helpful hints.

[Joefizz]

19 minutes ago, Deva said:

Jofizz:  I think you will quickly discover that the "authority" of the Bible just doesn't hold much weight here.  Even if it did, the passage you quoted only shows that Jesus taught Rabbi's at age 12.  It does not speak to the accountability issue. 

 

Another thing we like here are your actual thoughts and we  also like sentence punctuation (yes, I also read what you wrote in the Introduction section).

 

Trying to be positive here and lend some helpful hints.

I appreciate your honesty,and no matter what the forum site is people are always so keen on punctuation,I went through school for that stuff but forums are more of "conversations" so you may see me put hardly any punctuation or even indenting for 2 reasons...

1.I'm typing on an android phone and so it's tough to figure what typing system to use so I at least use commas,quote brackets,and other outlining punctuation as well as some indention but it's a headache to me lol

2.it's tough discerning if I should indent before starting a post,or even what time to put a comma(I barely remember English class lol) and it's a nuisance on some sites back tracking to reedit for misspellings or correcting punctuations(some sites only give you 5 minutes!)so I just try to get things at least readable and understandable,because I do now understand about the aggravation to others of "wall texts" so I try my best to avoid such things but if I do,then I apologize ahead of time for this,I don't do such things intentionally.

[Joefizz]

36 minutes ago, Deva said:

Jofizz:  I think you will quickly discover that the "authority" of the Bible just doesn't hold much weight here.  Even if it did, the passage you quoted only shows that Jesus taught Rabbi's at age 12.  It does not speak to the accountability issue. 

 

Another thing we like here are your actual thoughts and we  also like sentence punctuation (yes, I also read what you wrote in the Introduction section).

 

Trying to be positive here and lend some helpful hints.

that's why I said "estimation" of the age of accountability,I mean come on Jesus staying behind in Jerusalem instead of just following his parents home,that certainly is rather "independent" sort of hinting that 12 may be the age of accountability,but noone have I heard of that is for sure,though it's a topic that has been brought up many times.

[mwc]

     So if they would have crucified jesus as a child what would have happened?  Considering this whole age of accountability and all?

 

          mwc

 

[Geezer]

2 hours ago, mwc said:

     So if they would have crucified jesus as a child what would have happened?  Considering this whole age of accountability and all?

 

          mwc

 

 

Jesus was supposedly God incarnate, so he had an endless supply of get out of jail free cards.

[mwc]

11 minutes ago, Geezer said:

 

Jesus was supposedly God incarnate, so he had an endless supply of get out of jail free cards.

     Oh, I know.  But he took on the sins of the world.  The whole world you see.  And then descended into hell (according to scriptures).  For three days.  Then came back to life.  All magical and such (but not magic...miracles).

 

     Ok.  But.  Now, he dies and he's not of the age of accountability.  And he gets all these sins.  The sins of the world.  And now what?  He dies and goes...to heaven?  Yes.  To heaven.  He's not accountable.  So free pass to straight to heaven.  For three days?  Then magic, err, miracle of back to life.  Then back to heaven?  Young jesus with age of accountability stuff changes things.

 

          mwc

 

[Geezer]

22 minutes ago, mwc said:

     Oh, I know.  But he took on the sins of the world.  The whole world you see.  And then descended into hell (according to scriptures).  For three days.  Then came back to life.  All magical and such (but not magic...miracles).

 

     Ok.  But.  Now, he dies and he's not of the age of accountability.  And he gets all these sins.  The sins of the world.  And now what?  He dies and goes...to heaven?  Yes.  To heaven.  He's not accountable.  So free pass to straight to heaven.  For three days?  Then magic, err, miracle of back to life.  Then back to heaven?  Young jesus with age of accountability stuff changes things.

 

          mwc

 

 

In the military that's called RHIP. (Rank Has Its Privleges). And God is like, well, God. I think that's several pay grades above President of the United States, so that makes God like totally in charge. The Golden Rule you know. Those with the Gold make the rules, & God has all the Gold & therefore makes all the rules, & He exempts Himself from all of those rules. 

[mwc]

     Wouldn't that also mean that any kid could be jesus though?

 

     Just take any kid under the age of accountability, put the sins of the world on them, get them killed off, all their sins are forgiven since they can't be held accountable, the kid hangs out in heaven for a few days, then bring the kid back to life.  Problem solved.  All kids are jesus.

 

          mwc

 

[Storm]

18 hours ago, mwc said:

     Wouldn't that also mean that any kid could be jesus though?

 

     Just take any kid under the age of accountability, put the sins of the world on them, get them killed off, all their sins are forgiven since they can't be held accountable, the kid hangs out in heaven for a few days, then bring the kid back to life.  Problem solved.  All kids are jesus.

 

          mwc

 

Another point to show that Jesus wasn't anything special like Christians think he is.