24 replies to this topic

[HoustonHorn]

I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

[JGJ@ReligionisBullshit]

I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

What if you're wrong? Fear of Hell? Is that the kind of god you would want to worship anyway? Don't worry about it, even if we are all wrong, including early Christian writers of the Bible who felt the need to punish those who didn't believe and to keep people on the straight-and-narrow path to the Church coffers, I don't think god would mind. It's his crappy planet full of people who condemn those who are different, not a Christian god who made them different who condemns.

[white_raven23]

Google images of little children in India (hindu), the middle east (islam), and China (buddhism). Remember that all these kids....these representatives of the human future with amazing and different life perspectives and rich and varied cultures......are all bound for HELL.

All because they were raised according to the "wrong" book.



Can any supreme being worthy of being titled such, condone and approve of something that ignorant?

[cathuria]

23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

Exactly... you're the victim of something very like a post-hypnotic suggestion.
But just to be fair -- if you're seriously going to ask, "what if I'm wrong in denying Christ?", then in equal seriousness you must ask:
"What if I'm wrong in denying Muhammad?"
"What if I'm wrong in denying Krishna?"
"What if I'm wrong in denying Buddha?"
"What if I'm wrong in denying Zeus?"

I assume, however, that you've always felt very comfortable in the knowledge that all the people who pursued those beliefs were just living a fantasy. Oh, but you were different; you had a book (a 2000 year old book full of witches, giants, & talking animals) that was really true!

My point being, if you can deny Islam or Hinduism, it shouldn't be any harder to deny Christianity.

[HoustonHorn]

My point being, if you can deny Islam or Hinduism, it shouldn't be any harder to deny Christianity.

I never said these doubts made sense Just something to get through... And the having to deny other gods is what actually made me start doubting Christianity.

[LosingMyReligion]

The "What If I'm wrong" question plagued me for awhile too.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe in a supreme entity. But I believe that said "god" is benevolent and loves everyone. I'm still into all the afterlife, angels, and etc...

However, I realize that I cannot love and adore a malevolent tyrant like the one in the bible.
Read through that book some more. You basically have a guy with all the power who pitches genocidal hissy fits whenever something doesn't go his way.

The only reason to praise something like that is out of abject FEAR. And that is what the church does, instill fear...

More importantly, there have been hundreds of religions throughout the history of the world in EVERY culture...What makes ours any different?

I remember my Sunday school teacher telling me that, "Christianity is the truth because we have the bible to stand on..." I couldn't believe that even when I was a Christian. The Muslims have a Holy Book, Buddhists have their own texts, I'm sure the Greeks and Romans had bibles about Zeus and Hera...

I think when you break away from The Christian religion and open your mind to the world and history it gets easier.

I'm sorry to all Christians out there but I don't think Ghandi is in hell.

[Manta]

Hey don't stop there.

If anyone who doesn't know Jesus goes to hell, then everyone who dies incapable of learning about such things, i.e. babies, the brain damaged and and the like goes too.

[willybilly30]

i think all this stuff posted proves god dont really care what u believe cause if god did hed make sure you believed it.
and if he dont try to make sure you believe it its gods fault not yours.
the bibles just someones idea of god theirs no proof its true theirs more proofs its not true.
the feelings will go away as you start thinking about things more.

[Amethyst]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The emotional manipulation and guilt trips that religion lays on you are insidious. It's how they keep people in the cult all their lives.

The way I get myself to quit worrying is this: If they are right about hell, then their deity is a diabolical tyrant who is not worth worshipping anyway, even if he does exist.

[Taphophilia]

Every once in a whle the thought still creeps in, so it takes a really long time. Such thinking does become less frequent though the longer you are out of it.

Taph

[Saviourmachine]

Delve into the mysery of mankind. Force yourself to look at misformed babies and ask yourself what they have done, what their parents have commited for cruel crimes to deserve such thing. Realize yourself what black corners on this scary world god doesn't care one fart about.

Think about hell once, twice, thrice, think it through. Swallow every drop of sweat that falls from the bodies in this bottomless pitt.

Realize yourself all the psychological tricks that are hidden in christianity. The overwhelming feelings of conversion, of commitment, of realizing that a superpower offers himself on the altar of your sins for another or the same superpower. Tremendous scale. And that collapses into one human mind, yours, emotional, psychological, human. Do you oversee all the forces that push and pull you from here to there?

Investigate into detail what exactly of which prophecies did come true. What is suspect, what not?

Read liberal xians from all flavours. If you actually are "afraid" that xianity is attractive to you, you should be aware that it evolved into many subspecies.

Study pseudoscience. It helped me a lot to try to debunk Velikovsky, Von Däniken, YEC (young earth creationism) or other material.

[BigToe]

Whatever it is you're afraid of being wrong for sounds like a lousy reason to believe something anyway. Basing a belief on something you will get in return - be it good like heaven or bad like hell- seems like missing the point to believing it anyway. What if you're wrong? So what?!? You get to decide what you believe based on what factors are important to you for making that choice. Are you causing harm to anyone else? Is it hurting you? Then do what makes you happy.

[jrmarlin]

Google images of little children in India (hindu), the middle east (islam), and China (buddhism). Remember that all these kids....these representatives of the human future with amazing and different life perspectives and rich and varied cultures......are all bound for HELL.

All because they were raised according to the "wrong" book.



Can any supreme being worthy of being titled such, condone and approve of something that ignorant?

WR, that is very cool -- I never thought about it all quite like that before. Even though I have never been through a "What if I'm wrong" phase, this is a very good post. It really should give someone something to ponder....


Houston, it sounds like your brainwashing from the xians was very effective if you're having doubts. Most brainwashed victims have doubts; however, that is a residual from the brainfuck you went through in xianity. Don't fear, just brush it off. You know that xianity has filled your head with bullshit. If it will help, read some passages from the bible. Look at it from a realistic point of view not the fairy tale it weaves that others make into a belief system - then ask yourself, "Am I sane to believe this is real?"

Brainwashing can fuck people up in a major way. During deprogramming... you will have your moments. It's natural. WR hit the nail on the head. If you really look at it objectively the brainwashing will lose its foothold on your brain.

[Fweethawt]

This is some scary shit...

I mean -- what if Balaam's ass really did talk?!?!?!
What if, a serpent really did trick Eve into eating a magical fruit that gave her knowledge of good and evil?!?!?
What if, Jesus really did walk on water??
What if, He really did rise up into the sky?!?!?
What if, a giant dragon really is going to wipe one third of the stars from the sky with his tail?!?!


Yep! You've plenty of thinking sittin' on your table.

Better get to it!!

[Alexandrian]

Personally, I believe that if any God does exist, that so long as I try to live a good life it wouldn't have me tortured for eternity. I think anything else would be unjust. And if there is a God, such a being would be the first creator, what could their be to make that God unjust? If God is all powerful, how could anything he created move him so as to give him the idea of being unjust?

I just don't think it's rational to believe in a God as cruel as the Christian God.

[Rosa Mystica]

I'm sorry to all Christians out there but I don't think Ghandi is in hell.

I don't, either.

To the OP: I dont' know what to advise. I've only be deconverted about a month and a half. I do a lot of "What if-ing". Of course, I also call myself a seeker, and acknowledge that this is probably a normal part of the searching process. It's like you said: twenty or so years of belief have a major effect on a person. I think the cure is time, to be quite honest.

Now, if I could only convince *myself* of the same thing...

[Mike D]

I went through the "what if I am wrong" phase for awhile. But eventually I thought is that really, honestly what this life is all about? The entire objective of our existence is just some cosmic guessing game and if we "guess" wrong, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to hell for eternal torture? And "god" went to all the trouble to create the huge infinite vastness of the universe soley just to support our one tiny spec of a planet and a few microscopic humans just so they could play this game?

No.

Edited by Mike D, 11 April 2006 - 12:24 AM.

[Rosa Mystica]

I went through the "what if I am wrong" phase for awhile. But eventually I thought is that really, honestly what this life is all about? The entire objective of our existence is just some cosmic guessing game and if we "guess" wrong, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to hell for eternal torture? And the huge infinite vastness of the universe was created soley just to support our one tiny spec of a planet and a few insignificant humans just so they could play this game?

No.

Exactly. The entire Christian system is a setup- or so it looks to me. I played the "game" for over 23 years. I don't want to play it anymore.

[All Gods Fail]

I'm in what I would classify as a "what if I'm wrong" phase with Christianity right now. That is - I don't really believe it, but have a nagging feeling about picking the wrong team so to speak. Sure, I understand it's not a logical feeling, but 23 years of believing in the basics of God followed by 4 years of fairly fundamental churches nag in the back of my mind.

So I supposed the question that follows is how long did y'all stay in this phase. Any suggestions on speeding it up? I assume the more research I do in to the absurdities of Christianity the easier the transition will be as I shift from feeling based to fact based knowledge of religion.

You kind of answered your own question there, HoustonHorn. 23 years of brainwashing doesn't just go away in a few weeks. Might take another 23 years till it's completely gone.

But the good news is, you've already got the answer - research and study. The more educated about religion you become, the quicker you realize what a load it is. And the quicker you can get over that nagging doubt.

For me, it really started when I realized the OT was nothing more than folk tales - fables, passed down for generations. None of it was true - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses - all were as real as Aladdin, Odysseus, and Paul Bunyan.

It was an ancient desert tribe's attempt at explaining the natural world, mixed with a lot of left-over religious notions from Egypt, Mesopotamia, etc. So how could xtianity possibly be true if the OT was made-up bullshit?

Just remember, you were brainwashed - you were told to believe burning bushes can tell people how to live their lives. You were told to make your loved ones second in your heart to a 2,000 year old carpenter who lives in the clouds. They took a lot of your time, energy and money, and all you got in return was holy doubletalk and a head full of nonsense. We all went through that. Xtianity is a cult that mutated from a crazy desert religion. You might as well worship Zeus or the Manitou - they're just as real as Yaweh.

[Saviourmachine]

Whatever it is you're afraid of being wrong for sounds like a lousy reason to believe something anyway. Basing a belief on something you will get in return - be it good like heaven or bad like hell- seems like missing the point to believing it anyway. What if you're wrong? So what?!? You get to decide what you believe based on what factors are important to you for making that choice. Are you causing harm to anyone else? Is it hurting you? Then do what makes you happy.

Hi Toe, yes, of course that's true. But we remain those little, easy to hurt, big eyed, hairless animals. It's virtually impossible to figure something out rationally or intellectually while your feeling says no. You, as a woman, actually knows that much better than I do.

It's indeed a fallacy, called Argumentum ad Consequentiam (appeal to consequences of a belief). This is a very general fallacy and actually IMHO the mother of a lot of others. Why does someone not question a tiny rule/law of his/her doctrine? That's because of the (supposed) consequences, that the whole belief system would collapse in that case.
What you mention, I see as a subspecie of Argumentum ad Consequentiam, namely the Argumentum ad Baculum (out of fear). However, opponents could very well think that you're commiting also the fallacy ad Consequentiam (namely wishful thinking). They would argue: "Although you know the consequences (hell), you think they aren't true, because you don't like them!"

It's your belief that your belief(s) should have no consequences.