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Goodbye Jesus

Departing the Mainstream Atheist Movement: My Journey to Authentic Humanism


TheBluegrassSkeptic

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In a world marked by diverse belief systems and a spectrum of values, the atheist movement has provided a platform for individuals to embrace rationality, critical thinking, and secular ideals. For many, it's been a space to challenge dogma and promote open dialogue. However, my journey through the mainstream atheist movement has been tainted by an unexpected aspect: the insidious pressure on non-religious women to conform to certain sexual expectations. This expectation, combined with the disheartening experiences I faced, led me to step away from my involvement in the movement and my atheist podcast.

 

The atheist movement prides itself on its foundation of reason, science, and skepticism. However, this intellectual backdrop often masks an underlying issue: the expectation for non-religious women to be more sexually available than their conservative counterparts. This paradox intrigued me when I initially joined the movement. I believed that shedding religious beliefs also meant shedding oppressive attitudes about gender and sexuality. Yet, as I delved deeper, I realized that these harmful stereotypes were still pervasive within the very community that championed freedom from dogma.

 

My participation in the atheist movement quickly became tainted by the feeling that my sexuality was becoming an inescapable aspect of my identity within the community. This unexpected sexualization pervaded conversations, social gatherings, and even online interactions. It felt as though my thoughts and contributions were being filtered through a lens that emphasized my gender and appearance over my ideas. This was disheartening, as I had hoped that the atheist movement would be a place where my intellect and opinions would be valued without being overshadowed by my gender.

 

As I struggled to find my place in this movement, I encountered another distressing aspect: predatory behavior from fellow atheists. During moments of vulnerability, some individuals within my circle preyed upon my emotional state, exploiting it for their own gain. If I was experiencing financial hardships and asked for advice, the first suggestion was always along the lines of selling photos of my body or camming. Never did my male counterparts suggest I have a yard sale, pick up a second job or advise me on how to fight debt collectors. It always came back down to my body. This manipulation shattered my trust and made me question whether the movement truly valued empathy and human connection.

 

During my journey within the mainstream atheist movement as a podcaster, panel guest, and blogger, I came to the painful realization that I was not alone in my experiences. Conversations with other women in my circle revealed that many of them had faced similar instances of sexual harassment and objectification. Shockingly, some recounted instances where they were targeted by malicious rumors and gossip after refusing unwanted sexual advances at events like Nanocon. I knew the men they were accusing, and some even admitted they did it. This disturbing trend of using rumors about supposed sexual encounters as a means of control and retaliation against those who rejected advances highlighted the toxic underbelly that had infiltrated the community. Learning about these distressing stories reinforced my urgency to find a more inclusive environment for all atheists, regardless of gender.

 

It was evident that a profound transformation was needed within the movement to ensure that these stories of harassment and degradation became a thing of the past. But, how can I do this within a community that purports itself to prioritize reason and humanism and not allow toxic behaviors to flourish unchecked?

 

Breaking Away 

The decision to step away from my involvement in the mainstream atheist movement and my podcast was difficult, but ultimately liberating. As I gradually distanced myself from the pressures to conform, I began to reclaim my autonomy and prioritize my well-being. Breaking away allowed me to rediscover the core principles of humanism – values centered on compassion, ethics, and a commitment to the well-being of all individuals, regardless of gender, belief, or background. I ended my podcast, even severing ties with three of its members. As news of Dave Silverman broke during this time, I was more assured in my decision to take a break and focus on a time of introspection. I delved into why I felt it was important for me to be part of the more visible side of atheism, why I allowed myself to be disrespected, manipulated, and sometimes exploited. I realized it was so my voice would be amplified, or so I thought. Maybe it was for a time, but ultimately, it was church all over again. A lot of drama and idol worshipping. 

 

The important lesson I took away from my experience was that leaving behind the mainstream atheist movement wasn't an abandonment of my atheism or skepticism. Instead, it was a choice to embrace a more genuine form of humanism that respects the dignity and agency of all individuals. My journey has been one of self-discovery, growth, and finding solidarity with like-minded individuals who share a commitment to inclusivity and empathy. I strike up more conversations now than ever before, and I still kept most of my inner circle intact despite losing my podcast and not participating in community initiatives with local atheist groups. 

I discovered genuine camaraderie. 

 

My departure was a pivotal moment in my life. It was a step toward recognizing that enlightenment doesn't always include shedding harmful expectations and confronting predatory behavior. In fact, you may be so wrapped up in discovery that you don't see the red flags. While the atheist movement continues to be a platform for many important discussions, it's crucial to acknowledge and address the issues that tarnish its potential for inclusivity and ethical growth. 

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Weezer

Posted

As a retired behavioral/social scientist, I find the above very interesting.  Not being an extrovert and getting involved personally with different groups, I had not given it much thought, but reading what you said goes along with a "feeling" I have had for years.  There seems to be some difference in the personalities of atheists, agnostics, and humanist.  Is it ego??  I have jokingly said for years that atheists can't bring themselves to say, "I don't know".  In everyday terminology, they, as a group, seem more "pushy".  

 

 

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

16 hours ago, Weezer said:

As a retired behavioral/social scientist, I find the above very interesting.  Not being an extrovert and getting involved personally with different groups, I had not given it much thought, but reading what you said goes along with a "feeling" I have had for years.  There seems to be some difference in the personalities of atheists, agnostics, and humanist.  Is it ego??  I have jokingly said for years that atheists can't bring themselves to say, "I don't know".  In everyday terminology, they, as a group, seem more "pushy".  

 

 

I mean, I don't know why differences in personalities are something of note. Everyone has differences like that and is perfectly normal. Even with religious communities, you'll have the rabid hell-fire types and more liberal-minded "we're all gods children regardless". I guess I would need you to clarify what you mean. 

I've not met an atheist yet that can't say "I don't know". In fact, to be an atheist is to be okay with saying "I don't know". So, I guess, I'd need more clarification. 

As far as being pushy, seems you're using a broad paint brush here. I could use a broad brush attitude about those who are religious and say much the same, but we both though that's not an accurate assumption. If you look at PEW research studies, atheists are more accepting of religious views than vice versa. We tolerate a hell of a lot more than those who are religious. So, not sure what you're getting at.

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freshstart

Posted

Hi Bluegrass, I'm sorry you experienced everything you described.

I wonder if this sort of unwanted behavior is really more a function of (a) anonymity (b) a large virtual audience and (c) evolving group-think or group norms, rather than a display of correlating traits in atheists? In other words, there are assholes everywhere, no matter what their other identities are.

Just a thought.

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Weezer

Posted

Wow!  I did not expect that response (from Skeptic).  Did you think I am Christian?  Perhaps I need to explain that I consider myself agnostic, and am a member of American Humanist Association.   What am I getting at??

 

You said your, "participation in the atheist movement quickly became tainted....."    You go on to explain why, and from your account of why you are leaving, I could see why you are leaving them to identify as a humanist.  I thought I was supporting you and explained that I have seen what seemed like some differences between them and other secular "groups".  No big deal.  Just something that has crossed my mind and thought might give you some insights into what happened.

 

Then you say, "We tolerate a hell of a lot more than those who are religious".   And go on to defend them.  I am confused.  I thought this whole blog was about you being disappointed with them, and leaving them.  I think you need to explain just what it is you are getting at.  

 

 

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

13 hours ago, Weezer said:

Wow!  I did not expect that response (from Skeptic).  Did you think I am Christian?  Perhaps I need to explain that I consider myself agnostic, and am a member of American Humanist Association.   What am I getting at??

 

You said your, "participation in the atheist movement quickly became tainted....."    You go on to explain why, and from your account of why you are leaving, I could see why you are leaving them to identify as a humanist.  I thought I was supporting you and explained that I have seen what seemed like some differences between them and other secular "groups".  No big deal.  Just something that has crossed my mind and thought might give you some insights into what happened.

 

Then you say, "We tolerate a hell of a lot more than those who are religious".   And go on to defend them.  I am confused.  I thought this whole blog was about you being disappointed with them, and leaving them.  I think you need to explain just what it is you are getting at.  

 

 

I'm sorry, I mistook your response to be referring to atheism as a whole. When you said "

 

On 8/12/2023 at 11:31 PM, Weezer said:

I have jokingly said for years that atheists can't bring themselves to say, "I don't know".  In everyday terminology, they, as a group, seem more "pushy".  

I took that as going after all of atheism which surprised me as well! LOL

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

20 hours ago, freshstart said:

Hi Bluegrass, I'm sorry you experienced everything you described.

I wonder if this sort of unwanted behavior is really more a function of (a) anonymity (b) a large virtual audience and (c) evolving group-think or group norms, rather than a display of correlating traits in atheists? In other words, there are assholes everywhere, no matter what their other identities are.

Just a thought.

Oh, I'm sure any ideological group has issues with anonymity and toxicity. My experiences were firsthand, in person and online. And yes, there are assholes everywhere. It's just easy to overlook the red flags when you think you've found your tribe.

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RankStranger

Posted

Remember Gamer-Gate?

 

Other women have had similar experiences.  Not sure if Atheists and the like are any worse than the general population in this regard, or if the ladies in question simply expected them to be 'better'.

 

 

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

On 8/23/2023 at 9:40 AM, RankStranger said:

Remember Gamer-Gate?

 

Other women have had similar experiences.  Not sure if Atheists and the like are any worse than the general population in this regard, or if the ladies in question simply expected them to be 'better'.

 

 

Personally? I went in expecting better behavior because in mainstream atheism, the mantra is "we aren't like that here". That was as a newbie in the social circles though. Sadly, I agree, it was wishful thinking and misleading messaging imo. 

 

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RankStranger

Posted

Wait... did I say gamergate?  I meant elevator-gate :D

 

That happened around 2011.  From what I saw as a long-time atheist posting here at that time, that incident really fractured the atheist/skeptic community- and it's never really recovered.

 

It's funny how claims of moral superiority often don't pan out in the real world... whether those claims are made by atheists or Christians.

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9 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

From what I saw as a long-time atheist posting here at that time, that incident really fractured the atheist/skeptic community- and it's never really recovered.


Any community that’s built on only one thing - disbelief in god, or belief in a single deity for that matter - is going to have to be rather narrowly focused.  Theists, after all, have been enthusiastically killing and persecuting each other for centuries.  Human nature usually wins out, for better or for worse.  We are fearfully and wonderfully evolved.

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RankStranger

Posted

4 minutes ago, TABA said:


Any community that’s built on only one thing - disbelief in god, or belief in a single deity for that matter - is going to have to be rather narrowly focused.  Theists, after all, have been enthusiastically killing and persecuting each other for centuries.  Human nature usually wins out, for better or for worse.  We are fearfully and wonderfully evolved.

 

Sure, I don't disagree with that.  I'd say the atheist/skeptic community has some evolving to do if they're going to remain a force though.  I mean, a whole movement stagnating over one tiny scandal where nobody got hurt... that's just not a robust system that's going to weather the storms of life.

 

Look at the Southern Baptists on the other hand.  Their version of God lost the American Civil War.  They've gone on to weather one scandal after another... even a chomo scandal recently.  And they're still going strong 🙄

 

 

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27 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

that's just not a robust system that's going to weather the storms of life.


Indeed.  While I approve of and advocate for atheism, most of us need something more, something positive, to motivate us and to guide us.  For me, it’s atheism plus an evolving combination of ideas from Stoicism, Epicureanism and Buddhism, as I’ve mentioned before.   The challenge for all of us - godly or godless - is to have guiding principles without becoming slaves to dogma.  Again, human nature often hinders that, but the good news is we have the intelligence and judgment to at least allow us to overcome or mitigate the instincts that can get us in trouble, whether it’s putting on a condom or resisting tribalism.   

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7 hours ago, TABA said:

 

 but the good news is we have the intelligence and judgment to at least allow us to overcome or mitigate the instincts that can get us in trouble, whether it’s putting on a condom or resisting tribalism.   

 

Do you see intelligence, judgement and rational thinking, "selling" in our society anytime soon?  I think moral evolution needs to happen, but it seems to have a lot of opposition at the present time.  

 

 

 

 

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RankStranger

Posted

Condoms are overrated, and we're all tribal.  IMO.  Have a Blessed Day 😇

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On 9/16/2023 at 1:32 AM, Weezer said:

Do you see intelligence, judgement and rational thinking, "selling" in our society anytime soon?  I think moral evolution needs to happen, but it seems to have a lot of opposition at the present time. 


To some extent, but only to some of extent.  Intelligence, judgement and rational thinking have always been all too scarce.  Moral evolution has always had a lot of opposition, and generally more robust and violent than we see today.  Is there a long way to go? Absolutely.  But I also don’t buy the gloom and doom in some quarters that Things are Worse Than Ever.  In one or two respects maybe, but not in most.  

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1 hour ago, RankStranger said:

Have a Blessed Day 😇


Godless best wishes to you too, foul godling.

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

 

On 9/15/2023 at 1:32 PM, RankStranger said:

Wait... did I say gamergate?  I meant elevator-gate :D

 

That happened around 2011.  From what I saw as a long-time atheist posting here at that time, that incident really fractured the atheist/skeptic community- and it's never really recovered.

 

It's funny how claims of moral superiority often don't pan out in the real world... whether those claims are made by atheists or Christians.

Actually, there was another elevator gate, and it occurred in 2016ish I think, and involved one of my podcast crew. Let's just say some advances were made, rejected, and the dejected cast member started running horrendous gossip about the woman for the remainder of the convention. Just awful stuff. I've seen first hand folks being unwantedly kissed at some of the after parties.  There's this expectancy of uninhibition and access, which is really disturbing. It's like going to church where everyone is dressed and acting proper, then once church is out, they're back to being abusive aholes. Awww humanity. Just love it, right? #sarcasm

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TheBluegrassSkeptic

Posted

On 9/15/2023 at 2:00 PM, RankStranger said:

I mean, a whole movement stagnating over one tiny scandal where nobody got hurt... that's just not a robust system that's going to weather the storms of life.

 

There have been numerous scandals where people have been hurt. Some assaulted. Some manipulated for gain. And that's just on the local level. With the recent focus on Silverman, Mandisa Thomas, and even my former group leader Jim Helton tearing apart our strong community where I lived, atheist communities have a lot of introspection on their plates imo

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RankStranger

Posted

I hadn't heard about all that, but I guess it's not surprising.  We humans are a nasty bunch of apes.  Doesn't seem to matter what religious affiliation or -ism is involved... our simian nature always comes shining through.

 

 

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