Thumbelina Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I apologize in advance but I am posting this because of this forum :To All Of God's Critics God owns the whole schbang ;well, to the believer anyway. I'll let a Christian Doctor explain how God allows us to have free will and why humans tend to worship, even if it's idols they're worshipping. I understood it, but he helped me get a deeper understanding of it. Dr Jennings came up with this model: Spiritual Nature -> Reason l -> Conscience l -> Worship l Mind --------> Will --------> Thoughts --------> Feelings He explained that man has a Spiritual Nature which comprises reason, conscience and worship. He explained that these are the HIGHEST faculties that God created us with that make us in His (God's) image. The highest of those faculties is our ability to reason, i.e. the way we weigh evidences and draw conclusions; but, reason is NOT enough. God designed that reason should work in conjunction with conscience; conscience is the mental faculty that is sensitive to the movement of the spirit of God (i.e. how we know what is right and wrong). God can impress us directly through our conscience.; conscience does not work by itself either, it works jointly with reason. God created us with an innate desire or drive to worship. Dr. Jennings further explained that our spiritual nature is to direct our will, which is the aspect of our mind that actually makes choices, and we choose to implement the conclusions of reason and conscience in the formation of healthy thoughts (thinking the right things), formations of healthy beliefs, values, morals, the right use of our imagination, forming healthy relationships which are from our natural desire for relationships and healthy attachments. He said that feelings are at the bottom, it's subordinate to the rest. In God's order of things, feelings always fall behind as a caboose on a train; they are NEVER to be in charge or to dictate our decisions but they are to be part of our experience. However, we are not to ignore our feelings; feelings are data, they're information that one can elevate to reason and conscience for evaluation and understanding but reason and conscience remain, or should remain, in control. Could a person follow this diagram sans God? The diagram requires our participation but all by ourselves, without the assistance or input or cooperation of God we would be lost! We cannot do this alone and isolated. To not fall into such a trap we need to remember our proper relationship to God. GOD IS OUR CREATOR, we are created beings, we are FINITE, there are things we DON"T know. Therefore, remembering that relationship helps to keep us from becoming filled with self and letting our reason take control to the exclusion of our conscience. God's goal is to heal the faculties of the mind that HE CREATED. To RESTORE those faculties in proper balance so that we have a noble reason, a clear conscience, a healthy worship, a strengthened will and that we make healthy choices from moment to moment; that we are able to discern right from wrong. We can't tell God to totally take control of our lives, but God WON"T do that anyway because that would mean taking control of our will and we won't be able to FREELY choose to LOVE Him. Can you imagine a parent that has to always put a gun to their child's head in order to get them to be respectful? Children should obey their parents (in the Lord; meaning they're not breaking the 10 commandments) because they love them and it's the right thing to do. Anyway, the way God takes control is by establishing His truth in our hearts, His principles, that we come to understand and INTELLIGENTLY cooperate with Him as free will beings Dr. Jennings asserted that the reason God asks for our worship is NOT because God is insecure or because He needs the affection of His creatures, He WANTS our affection, He created us to love and for us to love Him in return (see Psa.102:14; Rev.4:11). While God is The Creator and The Supreme potentate and He is entitled to our worship, a much bigger reason why He commands it is because of His selfless character. God created a law in the universe, Dr. Jennings calls it "The Law Of Worship", psychiatrists call it "The Law of modeling". The law of modeling in the bible is referred to as "By beholding we become changed." (See 2 Corinthians 3:18) We actually adapt or assimilate ourselves or become like the things we worship and admire.There is NOTHING on this planet that we can worship and grow. Everything on this planet would devolve.Throughout history humans have worshiped all sorts of items that were made with hands they even worshiped the sun, they still do, even if it is inadvertently so. Worshiping The CREATOR God is the ONLY way for intelligent creatures throughout the universe to continually advance and to continually grow. He is the ONLY being in the universe that can be worshiped and not be selfish. God is giving of Himself to all creation. Any other being in the universe that seeks worship becomes self-centered because they don't have anything that would cause the rest of the beings that would worship them to grow and advance; it actually destroys the beings that worship any other being or thing. It is ONLY the TRUE CREATOR GOD that can say worship me in a healthy way by worshiping Him, He is giving of Himself for your own growth and advancement. In Romans 1:21 Paul says "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. So, everyone worships something. Karl Jasper wrote "That which you hold to, upon which you stake your existence, that is truly your god." Richard Creel who wrote Religion and Doubt wrote " A person's deity is that which actually dominates that person's life, giving it unity direction and inspiration, whether the person realizes it or not." So, the question is what are we worshiping. Actually, if you have awareness you worship. Worship directly affects the health of reason and conscience, the use of the will and the overall health of the mind. The right kind of worship i.e. ..................................................... A pastor had mentioned that humans that get a lot of fame tend to develop Acquired Situational Narcissism; their popularity makes them extremely extremely selfish and egotistical. That happened to the devil, certain biblical characters such as Saul and Absalom, the Caesar's in Rome, the popes during the dark ages, the prophet Mohammed and a number of dictators etc. Anyway, Dr. Jennings gave a definition for spiritualism, "spiritualism is the pursuit of knowledge without the use of reason or the investigation of evidence." Sooooo many people just follow a creed without even digging deep into what it entails, they just follow because " their preacher/priest/philosophy professor told them!" The bible says that each individual should know and understand what they believe and why they believe as they do ( see 2Tim2:15; 1Pet.3:5) God wants us to understand Him (see Isaiah 1:18 ). That is why different religions persecute others who do not believe as they do.If their faith is grounded on truth why should they persecute others who do not believe as them? God's way is to leave it up to Him to be the judge. His followers are supposed to tell the good news of salvation to others and if they don't want to hear then we are to leave them alone and pray for them instead heh heh. Psalm 119:165 "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." Even if the gates of hell come against God's people they are not to worry because God is in charge. "Sound faith has nothing to fear from right reason." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 That is why different religions persecute others who do not believe as they do.If their faith is grounded on truth why should they persecute others who do not believe as them? God's way is to leave it up to Him to be the judge. His followers are supposed to tell the good news of salvation to others and if they don't want to hear then we are to leave them alone and pray for them instead heh heh. Psalm 119:165 "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." Even if the gates of hell come against God's people they are not to worry because God is in charge. "Sound faith has nothing to fear from right reason." I'm glad you don't see any need to persecute those who believe differently from you. If you understand why people believe differently, you may come to see that your own beliefs are at fault. Gods of all stripes and colors are the inventions of men, and men have used those gods for their own purposes whether it be the conquest of other people (and their slaughter), the establishment of a theocracy, or the collection of enough money to build giant cathedrals and live in luxury. The Good News is that Hell doesn't exist. You can live this, your only life, without fear of eternal torment for not following some "correct" path. You should do what's right because it is beneficial to others and yourself. If you really study opposing opinions, look at science (particularly evolution) without fear or prejudice and examine the evidence, then you will arrive at conclusions based on reason and not just blind faith. "Sound faith has nothing to fear from right reason." Follow reason, examine the facts, and think for yourself - follow the conclusions regardless of whether they agree with your preconceptions. Don't be afraid of the truth. Or, you can pray, and listen to the silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 "Is God?" Prove that much and I'll entertain your extremely long posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 ......snipped...... Tiiiny little problem in Dr. Jennings theory: there is no god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 God didn't command us to worship him. The priests who collect tithes told us God demanded us to worship him. Regularly. Or burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 God didn't command us to worship him. The priests who collect tithes told us God demanded us to worship him. Regularly. Or burn. Those priests conveniently wrote in that if we do not worship their god, and pay them an ass load of money, we would all go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I learned the principles of god early in life, I have pretty well always lived by them. I felt a deep close personal realtionship with god, butI have never felt the need or inclination to worship him. That lack of worship things extends to all of life, I dont have heroes. If christ is the firstborn of many brethren, are we not equal? Christ taught me we are all equal. Worship makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 None of the quotes or ideas actually seem to come from any "gods." They all come from people and they all say that quotes from other people are either right or wrong. Call me when "god(s)" are ready to turn on the old universal P.A. system and let us all know what the real story is (I won't bother giving you my number since I know you won't be calling...ever). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 17, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2010 Your question seems to be one you're trying to answer for yourself. It means nothing to people who don't believe that your version of god exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'll let a Christian Doctor explain how God allows us to have free will and why humans tend to worship, even if it's idols they're worshipping. Yet another Christian pusher of the free will fairy tale arrives. Dr. Jennings can draw diagrams all day long but he didn't deal with this: Eph 1:4-5,11 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: According to whose will? According to God's will, not your will. God's goal is to heal the faculties of the mind that HE CREATED. To RESTORE those faculties in proper balance so that we have a noble reason, a clear conscience, a healthy worship, a strengthened will and that we make healthy choices from moment to moment; that we are able to discern right from wrong. If God's goal was to heal people's minds, he wouldn't do this: 2 Thess 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Sooooo many people just follow a creed without even digging deep into what it entails, they just follow because " their preacher/priest/philosophy professor told them!" Like the free will creed, which the Bible shoots full of holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 A god that has to command people to worship it... What an idiotic concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 A god that has to command people to worship it... What an idiotic concept. I would phrase that: A god ... What an idiotic concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Who is this "god" and what evidence do you have that he/she/it/they is/are real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I Love Dog Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Dr. Jennings asserted that the reason God asks for our worship is NOT because God is insecure or because He needs the affection of His creatures, He WANTS our affection, He created us to love and for us to love Him in return Well, he must be just THE greediest thing. I'm more than happy with the love of just two children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't have any strong desire to worship, especially not no God. I might worship a beautiful woman, but only if she worships me in return. But that won't include praying to them , bowing and kissing their feet or any other kind of religious ritual. It will be through acts of love and desire. If God has anything to say, then I would expect him to come down and appear physically and tell us whatever it is. If he cannot or will not do that, then he clearly does not understand me as a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godsfavoritecolor Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 "Thumbelina, Thumbelina tiny little thing Thumbelina dance, Thumbelina sing" Is your god Geppetto? Are you his Pinocchio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 For no particular reason, I think this thread needs a sinful song... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Who the hell is this mysterious, unidentified "Dr. Jennings", and why should anyone take his opinion seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabula Rasa Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 For no particular reason, I think this thread needs a sinful song... I quite agree Legion. I second with some L.A Guns: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 First off, Real Gods don't demand worship. They're above that bullshit. That's just people ego tripping and finding new ways to screw their fellow man. So, no, since gods don't demand that this whole thing is like what sort of grass the rabbit down the street likes to eat: completely irrelevant. Sorry to make all that hard copy-paste work worthless, but you already did that with your false religion. Oh,and it's true because I say it is and have a neat book about it and everything. Nyah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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