Mixed Feelings Difficult Decisions

[R. S. Martin]

I got a big card in the mail from my youngest sister. She is so much younger than me that we barely know each other and definitely share no childhood memories. I was sixteen and a half years old when she was born. Most of our relating has been in the context of me being an apostate from the church she believes is right. And now I have apostated from the very religion itself.

 

She has been teaching grades one to three in a church school for ten years or so and I guess she gets school-related mail. Apparently she got a large fancy Christmas card with a CD with music. In our culture we throw out NOTHING. So she automatically started thinking of everyone she knew to see if there was anyone who might want such a card. Some of her students are car Mennonites but I don't think that group has computers and definitely not artificial music such as tapes. So she sent it to me.

 

It's some of the best Christmas music I've ever heard and I love it--religious and secular. Not to brag but the community I come from, and my family in particular, are very talented singers. It's unaccompanied and it's natural talent. No musical instruments and no training outside what is passed from generation to generation inside the community. Finding music of equal quality "out here" has been impossible and how I have missed it! Not even in evangelical churches could I find anything that compared--well, the occasional Sunday morning the volume and rhythm were good. This CD measures up.

 

It's like the carols we sisters used to sing as we did the dishes at home in the old kitchen. We'd sing in four part harmony as we went about the various chores throughout the house on a Sunday morning. And we would sing heartily enough to hear through the doors without missing a beat. And mind you, my sense of rhythm is SHARP--as was that of most of my sisters. If you get adolescent girls stepping to the beat of the song as they pass from room to room and from inside to outside emptying the bedroom johnnies...blending voice and beat with those doing the dishes at the sink...These memories will never be forgotten.

 

But these sisters will gather and sing the Christmas songs without me yet another season. And the singing is not so cheerful as it used to be when we were young. Everyone strains to relive the memories and everyone has their own ideas of how that should be done. This will be the first year that Mom isn't there and won't need to be pleased. I don't know how that will affect things but I won't be there to see.

 

I struggle with the appropriate response to my sister for this gift of great music. I appreciate it so much. But what message will she get if I say so? I pretty well have to include a disclaimer stating that I like it for it's musical quality and nostalgic value alone and not at all for its religious value. Yet what is religion outside nostalgia and beauty? I like the mythical quality of the nativity and the music that goes with it. It helps me see Christianity for what it is. This perspective also allows me to enjoy the music and my cultural heritage without compromising personal integrity. But how to communicate this without seeming to lie or raising false hopes?

 

My method of relating the past many months has been not to respond at all to anything they send to me. This has given me a sense of peace and liberation from them that I need for my well-being. Yet not thanking people for something I genuinely appreciate.............hard decisions.

 

Would it make sense to say they have taken so much from me without saying sorry that it is only right to keep something for myself without saying thank you?

[RIPw4]

thank her for the beautiful music. Thats is all you can do. How she understands that thankyou is up to her to decide. If you are truly thankful for it then say it.

Hope that helps.

[Eric_PK]

Hmm. How about something like, "Thank you for the music. I enjoyed it, and it brought back some great memories"

[mwc]

It seems to me that you kind of know what to say since it's all in your post. Maybe just tell her that you're always afraid to interact with them because religion always seems to get in the way and you wish it wouldn't, then tell her how the music brought back those wonderful memories and how you'd love to thank her for all that. I think by mentioning that you're hesitant to communicate with them on account of the religion but you're able to appreciate this music on a different level that it should get the message across that you aren't changing your position on that issue.

 

Knowing you I think you'll be able to take all that and write a nice message that makes your points.

 

mwc

[The-Captain]

The fact that you are considering the feelings of those involved as well as your personal integrity is already more than alot of people I know would do in that situation.

 

My advice, for what its worth is to speak openly about this with your family, tell them the dilemma it puts you in (preferably w/o scaring them off mailing you things) be clear about your choice of belief.

 

Not to sound all combaty, but take the initiative, as long as theyre willing discuss. Maybe this advice will seem worthless to you, it very well may be.

 

All I can say is that candid honesty and bringing issues to the front, rather than letting things go unsaid is best.

 

Best Luck

[Deva]

I know the situation with your family is difficult and complicated, but you enjoyed the music so much. I think there must be a way you can thank your sister for it without compromising your integrity. RIP is right. Just thank her and the way she interprets it (and the rest of the family) is up to them. Puts the ball in their court. Then see what happens.

[ShackledNoMore]

You know your sister, and I don't, but she does know where you stand as an apostate, so I tend to think that she would not misinterpret a "thank you" as an expression of appreciation for its religious value.

[R. S. Martin]

Thank you for your suggestions, esp. those of you who know the situation. I'll think about it and see what I come up with.

[R. S. Martin]

You know your sister, and I don't, but she does know where you stand as an apostate, so I tend to think that she would not misinterpret a "thank you" as an expression of appreciation for its religious value.

 

I didn't see this until after I'd posted. I am not so sure about this, SNM. They are not Calvinists. They are Anabaptists. They will look for, hope and pray for, my repentance until the second the doctor pronounces me dead. And then they will probably grieve my spiritual death (being in hell) more than my physical death; it will be horror beyond human comprehension. Understandably, they want to prevent this.

 

Even if I appear unconscious they will seek evidence that I still have enough rational thought to "think of my Creator" before I pass away. I base this on a first-hand story I heard of a person who was fatally injured while in an unrepentant state and devastated family hovered over him desperately seeking and pleading him to repent even when he was not conscious, seeking some sign, even if only a slight pressure of the hand, to acknowledge having accepted Christ as savior before passing out. It was believed (hoped) that he could hear and think despite seeming unconscious.

 

This is why I am trying to arrange not to have my family notified when I am in my final illness until after I am gone. I don't want them crowding into my room pressuring me to repent. I want to be left to die in peace.

 

What I am trying to say is that they will be looking for any sign--any straw whatsoever they can grasp at all--that I am rethinking my position. It would be cruel to put them on a false hope. Not to mention that it could return to "bite me in the ass" if they decide I intentionally put them on a false impression. They would take that as an outright lie.

 

Since my deconversion I have been falsely charged too many times with intentionally doing things to them that never crossed my mind.

[R. S. Martin]

I'm wondering if something like this might work:

 

Dear Sister,

 

Thank you for that CD. It is really good music, like the Christmas carols we used to sing at home. Just so you know...Jesus said out of the mouth of babes and sucklings.........

 

The way I remember things, Mom told me about Jesus and that people hated him so much they killed him. We didn't have a Bible Story book back then; all I had was what Mother told us. I might have been about 6 years old. The idea of hating anyone enough to kill them wrenched my sensibilities but it made sense on the logical level. A long time later I heard Mom tell my younger siblongs that Jesus died so we could get to heaven when we died.

 

HUH???

 

It was as though someone had grabbed me from behind with great force. IT MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

 

I have no idea if I said anything out loud or what happened next. All I remember is the absolute shock with which it grabbed me for its shere illogic. I might have been 8 years old.

 

My argument is that if this was so clear to a child, surely it is WRONG! a false religion, a false doctrine, a wrong-headed idea or whatever. It is the single most important item over which I deconverted at the age of fifty. So far as I am concerned it is a lie and I can believe it but I do like this music and I want to thank you for a much-appreciated gift.

 

Your sister,

__________

*****************************

 

Any ideas. Is this too confrontational?

[Taphophilia]

How about something like this:

 

Dear Sister,

 

Thank you for the music cd. It was nice of you to think of me.

 

Your Sister,

 

RubySera

 

You don't have to tell her you enjoyed it, if it will only make them speculate.

[Alice]

Hi Ruby,

 

I find that my story has some similarities with yours - in that my sister is part of an unusal sect that struggles with technology and has a certain approach to the Bible. For example, her community will not use musical instruments also and all their singing in unaccompanied - (in fact they are 'exclusive psalmodists' - they will only sing psalms from the Bible) also my sister is very very distressed by my apostacy - believing that I will burn in hell for all eternity and that I will be taking my children there as well - having led them astray. This is extremely difficult for her. Add in the fact that we didn't ever get on when I was a christian and it makes for a difficult relationship to say the least!

 

I'd be inclined to go with something much simpler along the lines Taph suggested.

 

Dear Sister,

 

Thank you for the CD. It is really good music, like the christmas carols we used to sing at home.

 

I am touched that you thought of me.

 

If you are wanting to send a longer letter you could add in your description of singing together as described in your opening post. (a beautifully worded memory) Also if you are worried about raising false hopes you could add a final,

 

'although I no longer find religious meaning in the words of the songs, I continue to enjoy the music and loved the nostalgia the melodies evoked.'

 

If I sent a similar response to the one you outlined below my sister would certainly find this upsetting and confrontational.

 

 

I'm wondering if something like this might work:

 

Dear Sister,

 

Thank you for that CD. It is really good music, like the Christmas carols we used to sing at home. Just so you know...Jesus said out of the mouth of babes and sucklings.........

 

The way I remember things, Mom told me about Jesus and that people hated him so much they killed him. We didn't have a Bible Story book back then; all I had was what Mother told us. I might have been about 6 years old. The idea of hating anyone enough to kill them wrenched my sensibilities but it made sense on the logical level. A long time later I heard Mom tell my younger siblongs that Jesus died so we could get to heaven when we died.

 

HUH???

 

It was as though someone had grabbed me from behind with great force. IT MADE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

 

I have no idea if I said anything out loud or what happened next. All I remember is the absolute shock with which it grabbed me for its shere illogic. I might have been 8 years old.

 

My argument is that if this was so clear to a child, surely it is WRONG! a false religion, a false doctrine, a wrong-headed idea or whatever. It is the single most important item over which I deconverted at the age of fifty. So far as I am concerned it is a lie and I can believe it but I do like this music and I want to thank you for a much-appreciated gift.

 

Your sister,

__________

*****************************

 

Any ideas. Is this too confrontational?

[mwc]

Any ideas. Is this too confrontational?

Probably too confrontational. Look at what Taph and Alice have to say for some good ideas.

 

mwc

[ShackledNoMore]

You know your sister, and I don't, but she does know where you stand as an apostate, so I tend to think that she would not misinterpret a "thank you" as an expression of appreciation for its religious value.

 

I didn't see this until after I'd posted. I am not so sure about this, SNM. They are not Calvinists. They are Anabaptists. They will look for, hope and pray for, my repentance until the second the doctor pronounces me dead. And then they will probably grieve my spiritual death (being in hell) more than my physical death; it will be horror beyond human comprehension. Understandably, they want to prevent this.

 

Even if I appear unconscious they will seek evidence that I still have enough rational thought to "think of my Creator" before I pass away. I base this on a first-hand story I heard of a person who was fatally injured while in an unrepentant state and devastated family hovered over him desperately seeking and pleading him to repent even when he was not conscious, seeking some sign, even if only a slight pressure of the hand, to acknowledge having accepted Christ as savior before passing out. It was believed (hoped) that he could hear and think despite seeming unconscious.

 

This is why I am trying to arrange not to have my family notified when I am in my final illness until after I am gone. I don't want them crowding into my room pressuring me to repent. I want to be left to die in peace.

 

What I am trying to say is that they will be looking for any sign--any straw whatsoever they can grasp at all--that I am rethinking my position. It would be cruel to put them on a false hope. Not to mention that it could return to "bite me in the ass" if they decide I intentionally put them on a false impression. They would take that as an outright lie.

 

Since my deconversion I have been falsely charged too many times with intentionally doing things to them that never crossed my mind.

Yeah, on second thought, I think you're right about their being inclined to grasp at straws.

 

I think that Alice came up with a winner: it was gracious and tactful while still keeping things clear about your convictions.

[Grandpa Harley]

Based on what I know of your back story, I think Al has hit the tone about right...

 

Question, will it translate to Prairie German?

[R. S. Martin]

Based on what I know of your back story, I think Al has hit the tone about right...

 

Question, will it translate to Prairie German?

 

I think you mean Pennsylvania German.

 

We read and write in English so that won't be a problem. I agree that Alice's is the perfect note (um, no pun intended exactly though it is very fitting ).

[R. S. Martin]

Here's what I wrote:

 

Dear Esther,

 

Thank you for the CD. It is really good music, like the Christmas carols we used to sing at home. Although I no longer find religious meaning in the words of the songs, I continue to enjoy the music and I love the nostalgia the melodies evoke. Thank you for thinking of me.

 

Your sister,

 

********************************

 

Me being the person I am always looking for potential in relationships can't help but see a glimmer of hope that perhaps this will begin to open the possibility for a genuine connection with my sisters based on human affection rather than religious belief.

 

Maybe they would like this kind of relationship but don't know it exists because nobody ever taught them about it. They are taught that religion and Christ is all that exists.

 

I'm overwhelmed by the idea that via an anonymous ad in the mail and good music it may be possible to bridge the terrible gulf of extreme rigid religious alienation.

 

On my mother's side of the family, excommunication within families due to religious belief goes back many generations. My mother went out of her way to hold the family together, blundering and dysfunctional though her methods were.

 

The down side of my idealism is building castles in the air that are doomed to fail. I'll mail this note and try not to put too much hope on it.

[Alice]

Ruby,

 

I'm an idealist also and sometimes know the sting of disappointment that might have been avoided if I'd been a little more 'realistic' in my hopes. However, I do believe the advantages of this way of thinking outweigh the disadvantages ...

 

I hope the vision you have, of how a sisterly relationship could be, becomes a reality for you. Without your belief in the possibility that the terrible gulf of religious alienation might be bridged you may never have taken the time to take this step ... and although you can't know if it will make any positive difference at this stage you can be sure that without it the gap would definitely persist.

 

I feel inspired to try something new to try and connect with my own sister

 

 

Here's what I wrote:

 

Dear Esther,

 

Thank you for the CD. It is really good music, like the Christmas carols we used to sing at home. Although I no longer find religious meaning in the words of the songs, I continue to enjoy the music and I love the nostalgia the melodies evoke. Thank you for thinking of me.

 

Your sister,

 

********************************

 

Me being the person I am always looking for potential in relationships can't help but see a glimmer of hope that perhaps this will begin to open the possibility for a genuine connection with my sisters based on human affection rather than religious belief.

 

Maybe they would like this kind of relationship but don't know it exists because nobody ever taught them about it. They are taught that religion and Christ is all that exists.

 

I'm overwhelmed by the idea that via an anonymous ad in the mail and good music it may be possible to bridge the terrible gulf of extreme rigid religious alienation.

 

On my mother's side of the family, excommunication within families due to religious belief goes back many generations. My mother went out of her way to hold the family together, blundering and dysfunctional though her methods were.

 

The down side of my idealism is building castles in the air that are doomed to fail. I'll mail this note and try not to put too much hope on it.

[R. S. Martin]

Ruby,

 

I'm an idealist also and sometimes know the sting of disappointment that might have been avoided if I'd been a little more 'realistic' in my hopes. However, I do believe the advantages of this way of thinking outweigh the disadvantages ...

 

I hope the vision you have, of how a sisterly relationship could be, becomes a reality for you. Without your belief in the possibility that the terrible gulf of religious alienation might be bridged you may never have taken the time to take this step ... and although you can't know if it will make any positive difference at this stage you can be sure that without it the gap would definitely persist.

 

I feel inspired to try something new to try and connect with my own sister

 

Thank you for your encouraging words, Alice. And if this encourages another family to try to reconnect, wow! isn't music wonderful. I am curious what you are going to try and how it turns out.

[R. S. Martin]

Maybe my sisters do want a relationship. Yesterday I got mail from another one. I found myself opening it and then asking myself what I was doing because that particular one was one of the worst pain in the asses in the family. Well, I had to open it so I did. It contained a cheque for $25. Whatever for??? She didn't owe me. I read what she wrote:

 

To my Sister _______,

 

Just a line your way as I think of you. Did you find out that we got your produce wagon when [name of sister I shared home with when living on farm] moved to town? We didn't give anything for it, it needed some repairs. Recently when we were using it to haul pigeon manure to the strawberry patch, I once again thought of how we got it for nothing. It's such a handy thing to have when hauling apples from the orchard, raking the maples leaves, etc. We would never have bought a new wagon but I think we owe you a bit. Please accept this tip.

 

Your sister,

_________

 

Here's my thank you note:

 

Hello _______,

 

Thank you for that "tip." I didn't pay much for the original wagon but I put a lot of work into it to make it like I wanted it and I paid [name of local OOM welder] to make it so that large wheels (inflated tires) fit on, plus the new wheels and tires. It was worth the cost and work for me and I'm glad someone is still getting value out of it.

 

PS. I think I will use that money to get something in memory of my home in ______, esp. the things I used the wagon for. Thank you for this gift. It's a long time since I had money for anything other than the basic necessities of life. I was thankful I had that. I didn't even think to ask or wish for more. Not with so many pleasure free for the taking, such as the beauties of nature out my window or the inspiration and love of other people that I meet on the street or in the store, or wherever I go.

 

********************************

I haven't mailed it yet. I'm not sure if I should say all that. In a way I am making myself vulnerable by mentioning all the things that make life worth living for me. I also make myself vulnerable when I tell her how I plan to use the money. She is one of those people who tends to have distinct ideas on how other people should wisely spend their money and she also has the audacity to tell them when she thinks they don't measure up.

 

Here are my reasons for telling her the things I do:

 

1. About the things that make life worth living. First of all, it's true and an extra $25 looks like quite a gift to me. Secondly, it lets her know one doesn't need God to be happy with little and that one can "count one's blessings" without the help of God.

 

2. Family tradition dictates that one with barely enough money for the basics of life should use every penny for the basics of life. By stating that I will use the entire $25 for luxuries I am declaring independence of family tradition.

 

That clause in my thank you note is a necessary strategy. One does not grow up in a family of emotional manipulation and emotional deceit without learning a few survival tactics. If she is sincere, that statement is an honest bit of confidential information, something that is highly valued in our family. So what if I end up buying a Christmas dinner with it? That is not my plan right now. If she is the kind of sister I want a relationship with, there are no strings attached to that money. If there are strings attached to that money, then I will know not to trust her next time.

 

That is my thinking of the moment. Any thoughts? As stated, the note is not in the mail yet.

[RIPw4]

I think your thankyou note in beautiful.

Send it