Am I The Only Ex Mennonite Amish Person On Exchristian.net?

[live and learn]

By the way, graphicsguy, do you live in Goshen or Elkhart? Gotta be one or the other.

 

What? No, neither. I live in Canada in the province of Alberta!

 

We have Hutterites here...another Amish-like sect that I really have no clue about...

 

 

Sorry, I guess it was Blue Giant I should have asked the Goshen/Elkhart question. For the most part, it is easy to assume that Yoder or Zook or Stoltzfus or Schwartendruber are Mennonites or Amish, and that certain locations, like the above in Indiana, are chock full of them. I guess it may not be that way all over, and I know I am generalizing, but the closeknit isolated people tend to meet those stereotypes.

 

I'm only vaguely familiar with Hutterites, and know very little about Canadian Mennonite communities. I am interested in the differences.

[Grandpa Harley]

By way of a question... are these 'sects' simply sects or are they tied to some idea of ethnic purity? Are there black Mennonites, Huttierites etc?

[.god]

I wasn't aware that there are so few Amish and Mennonites compared to other denominations such as Baptists... There's just a LOT of Mennonites in my own area but that seems not to be typical across North America.

 

Mennonites/Amish cluster together, and it's interesting/horrifying how the isolation of the sect skews our perceptions. Although they often are 90% or more of a community, they represent only a very tiny fraction. If you live near Lancaster, Pa., Goshen, Ind., Harrisonburg, Va., Kalona, Iowa, northeast Ohio, or Kitchener, Ontario (correct me if I'm wrong on this one), you can expect Mennonites/Amish to be the norm.

 

Actually, I never saw an Amish or Mennonite in all my 30+ years until I visited Niagra Falls recently. To me they are more rare than the Tibetan monks dressed in orange robes who I see much more often. Are there any communities here in the West Coast? I think I had heard of maybe one in an obscure part of California and another in Oregon. We aren't big on farming here where most of the population lives ( that would be in our inland valleys), most of our modern cities grew up around fishing villages and trade ports.

 

I didn't even know who the Amish were until I saw the Harrison Ford film a few years back =)

I wonder if there are better numbers, but from Wikipedia I gleamed the following:

Amish est population in the US in 2000 - 198,000

Another page with numbers: http://www.kindredtrails.com/American-Refuge-2.html

Old-Order Mennonite: 224,000 & non-Old-Order 17,000

 

Compare that to the estimated total US population in 2006 of 3 million and Amish/Mennonite societies may consist of about 15% of the total population, assuming my numbers are correct.

Here's another breakdown that's way over my head personally, as I don't know anything about the many sects of religion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of...ous_affiliation

 

Over where I live, seeing Amish or Mennonite persons may be about as unusual as seeing a purple elephant =)

It is vastly more common for us to come across Mormon families.

 

Actually, Ruby, I wonder if you think of the Mormon communities, as they tend to be very insular as well. If you're curious, just check out their ex-mormon stories over at:

http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/ind...xmobb_biography

http://www.exmormon.org/

 

They make for some interesting reading, Their societies and communities seem pretty fucked up sometimes and very constraining and suffocating, especially for women - the vast number who seem to suffer from depression.

 

These people have survived small gene pools for thousands of years. They may be up against a crisis but they'll survive again. If worse comes to worse, they'll team up with like-minded communities in other parts of the continent with whom they haven't bred in a hundred or more years. Some small obscure sects will die out--they know it--it is "God's will." It's happening today. These people are farmers and they understand gene pools. What works with animals works with people. They know that. What they are unsure about is whether it's right. Well, actually, they are sure that it's not.

 

here's an interesting story regarding that concerning the Amish:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/magazine/06amish.html

[GraphicsGuy]

By way of a question... are these 'sects' simply sects or are they tied to some idea of ethnic purity? Are there black Mennonites, Huttierites etc?

 

I know there are rumors of the Hutterites keeping things "within the family" and I have also heard rumors of them paying outsiders to...well...breed their women...

 

I have no clue if there is any truth to the rumors or not though. May just be the locals poking fun at their anti-social ways.

 

However, there may be some possibility to the "ethnic purity" idea. I know some groups have very strong Ukranian or Polish backgrounds and you definitely never see any racial...coloring...amongst them beyond pasty white.

[live and learn]

By way of a question... are these 'sects' simply sects or are they tied to some idea of ethnic purity? Are there black Mennonites, Huttierites etc?

 

When I was very young my parents went to a Mennonite church in Youngstown, OH, and almost everyone there was black. They had the first black Mennonite preacher. Those are the only black Mennonites I remember hearing about.

 

It's something you are born into. I imagine some of the more liberal churches gain members now and then, but I am pretty damn sure in most circles everyone is related to everyone else if you go back very far. I hate to admit it, but my parents were related some steps back. (Yeah, I know, that explains it all! )

 

I think the whole genetic issue is fascinating. Seems to me the culture is a clear example of evolution at work. And I agree that groups from Canada and different parts of the US may have to merge eventually to alleviate the gene pool shrinking, but I think they will put it off as long as possible.

 

I can imagine this scenario: "The Lord has shown me that it is better to have horribly handicapped children rather than to allow any intermingling with those shameless hussies with their ankles showing and the men who wear those evil buttons! Better to be holy than healthy, sayeth the Lord. Interbreeding was good enough for Adam and Eve's children, right?"

 

 

RubySera, I have to really hand it to you. I had such a hard time freeing myself from all that, yet I was a part of a far more "worldly" segment than you were. I cannot image the culture shock. I had been so insulated that I went off the deep end when I left home to go to college (Eastern Mennonite in Virginia). I cannot even imagine leaving the way you were able to. You show such incredible strength.

 

I really hope you are not offended by my sarcastic remarks about the religion/culture/genetic family. It still just makes me crazy to think that innocent little children are brought up in such a stringent Spartan emotionally repressed world.

 

Religion is like the Japanese art of bonsai. A seedling tree is coerced to grow against what nature intended, and any shoots that are not in the schematics are snipped off, for the good of the plant, of course. So you end up with a warped, twisted, emotionally dwarfed characture of what nature means a child to be. The conservative churches are just more vigorous in the trimming. Of course, they follow a carpenter, so it's appropriate that they chop wood. Yeah, I'm still bitter, even after all these years. The more I write the more I realize that so much of the emotional difficulties I've had in life stem directly from the stifling of personality development that devastates the process of individuation. Add to that the genetic predisposition (amplified by religios isolation) to depression, and I begin to understand why my early life was so f'ed up.

 

Sorry to ramble on, I just had to get that out once I started.

[R. S. Martin]

Pippa,

 

I dug up this old thread.

 

I'm bringing your post over from Ex-Pastor's thread 2 Years Of Freedom And Counting! Don't want to take that thread off-track too far.

 

Ex-Pastor, I see you've been here for two years but haven't posted much. So I looked at your profile. Found your deconversion story....Another MENNONITE????????

 

Welcome!

 

I'd pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm the only Mennonite on here. Swiss Mennonite here. You Russian Mennonite?

 

Ruby i have some experience with the Mennonites, too, though i wasnt born into it. a group was started in my area, like an outreach, and i was involved with it for a few years. i wore amish attire for about 6 years. i joined because i believed that women were meant to wear headcoverings, and the Mennonites seemed to be the only ones who did, apart from the Exclusive Brethren. i strongly believed in it, and in avoiding worldly things, like TV. i felt that if i was going to follow the bible, i wanted to follow it properly, and it made sense to not conform to worldly fashions. if i was still a christian i would still agree with that, i mean, if i still believed the bible. why i left was because i couldnt handle the idea that salvation was conditional on doing the right thing. it reminded me of the roman catholic idea, that you could die in sin and go to hell. they believed that if you remarried after divorce you were living in adultery and the only thing to do was break up the marriage even if the new couple had had children together. otherwise you would go to hell.

 

later, i found it too hard to continue wearing a headcovering, even though i still believed in it, because in my area it was unheard of, and it was quite a difficult thing to deal with. i was called up by another member and told that i was risking hell by not doing what i believed in, ie. wearing the covering.

 

i came to think it was possible to be amish but not spiritual. but there were a lot of things about the amish that i really liked, and i always felt 'right' about wearing the cape dress and headcovering.

 

Pippa, I'm curious what kind of plain Mennonites are in Australia?

 

I disagree with your friend that you have to dress like the Amish because you believe in it. You probably also believe in dressing the way you do. It is not possible for me to dress in all the ways I believe are okay for people to dress.

 

I still wear the traditional cape dress because it's all I have ever been used to wearing and it's part of my identity. I feel I have had to change enough things; I don't have to force myself to change into contemporary garb, too. I intentionally chose a "worldly" church so that I would not have to meet a dress code, and now I don't go to church at all. It does not seem right that I have to change my clothes to meet anyone's ideas.

 

I did eventually stop wearing the head-covering because I felt I was misrepresenting my people. That was such a difficult step I cannot imagine myself ever making other changes in the near future.

[FriedVillageGuts]

By way of a question... are these 'sects' simply sects or are they tied to some idea of ethnic purity? Are there black Mennonites, Huttierites etc?

 

Alright, since we're playing Mennonite games I might as well throw in a little statistic about where all the Mennonites are:

 

Africa - 529,703

Asia & Pacific - 241,420

C/C & South America - 155,531

Europe - 52,222

North America - 499,664

_{from http://www.mwc-cmm.org/}

 

So yes, very definitely there are black Mennonites and are now the majority of Mennonites worldwide. They have taken the Mennonite identity but added a charismatic and evangelical element to it which has accounted for its rapid rise in Africa (added 125,000 in 6 years). In the church that I used to pastor it is now apx 1/3 African. Mind you that is not typical in North America where it is mostly a homogenous grouping. There are also a number of Hispanic churches, but they also tend not to mix.

 

Anyway, some numbers to chew on.

[ogilvy]

[quote name=

Pippa, I'm curious what kind of plain Mennonites are in Australia?

 

I disagree with your friend that you have to dress like the Amish because you believe in it. You probably also believe in dressing the way you do. It is not possible for me to dress in all the ways I believe are okay for people to dress.

 

I still wear the traditional cape dress because it's all I have ever been used to wearing and it's part of my identity. I feel I have had to change enough things; I don't have to force myself to change into contemporary garb, too. I intentionally chose a "worldly" church so that I would not have to meet a dress code, and now I don't go to church at all. It does not seem right that I have to change my clothes to meet anyone's ideas.

 

I did eventually stop wearing the head-covering because I felt I was misrepresenting my people. That was such a difficult step I cannot imagine myself ever making other changes in the near future.

 

 

Ruby, they started out connected with an amish mennonite church in Gworgia. people came out from that church and stayed a while to help set it up. it was never big, because the interested people were too far apart, all over australia. some of us did have weekly meetings, and we kept in touch with the ones across australia. it was a very rare thing here. people wondered what i was! it was exciting having the real mennonites over from the usa. i can understand you thinking there was no need to give up wearing the cape dress. i thought the cape dress was a logical idea for those trying not to conform to fashion. we can wear whatever we want. it was a nice clean cut image. i felt we had dignity. actually i think the muslem women have dignity, and that wearing a headcovering is a natural type thing. but i dont know why i think so now, because i dont believe in the bible any more. guess just because i'm in transition. actually even before i was a christian i had some kind of repulsion towards a lot of the crappy things on TV, and i wished when i was a child that we didnt have TV. guess i always liked old fashioned things, expecially old books.

i think there would still be some mennonite converts around, but i've lost contact now. i'd be ashamed to tell them i've given it all up.

[live and learn]

Hi. I was raised in a moderately liberal Mennonite home. Of course, there is such a gradient of conservatism with Amish/Mennonites that liberal is kind of hard to define. Skirts, long hair, no jewelry, keep to your own kind, etc., for us, to give you an idea.

 

I'm glad you resurrected this thread.

 

I found this ex-conservative Mennonite's bog on the Huffington Post website. He's a free-lance writer in LA now, and has interesting perspective on the religion.

Steven Denlinger

 

I'm really surprised that you still wear the cape dresses. I think of that as a way of indicating that there is something instrisically wrong with having breasts. I can understand, though, how hard it could be to change, and if it works for you guys, more power to you.

 

I'm curious. Are there other parts of the traditions you still use?

[babysealclubber]

Dear live and learn,

 

I'm new to this website, I just wanted to say that I was raised as a mennonite brethren in California. I never had the restrictions that you had, although they were strongly suggested, but my parents had some of them when they were younger. I do not know any other mennonites who have rejected their faith outright, although I have met a few who were disillusioned.

 

By the way, the link is broken in your last comment.

 

-Brad

[babysealclubber]

Never mind, here is a proper link.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-denlinger

 

-Brad

[R. S. Martin]

Hi. I was raised in a moderately liberal Mennonite home. Of course, there is such a gradient of conservatism with Amish/Mennonites that liberal is kind of hard to define. Skirts, long hair, no jewelry, keep to your own kind, etc., for us, to give you an idea.

 

I'm glad you resurrected this thread.

 

I found this ex-conservative Mennonite's bog on the Huffington Post website. He's a free-lance writer in LA now, and has interesting perspective on the religion.

Steven Denlinger

 

I'm really surprised that you still wear the cape dresses. I think of that as a way of indicating that there is something instrisically wrong with having breasts. I can understand, though, how hard it could be to change, and if it works for you guys, more power to you.

 

I'm curious. Are there other parts of the traditions you still use?

 

That argument works only if you accept the argument that the cape is required for modesty. I've done some research on the development of the cape and that argument is a very weak one, in my opinion. I've seen some very old-fashioned capes and they did not serve well to cover breasts. According to folk-tale, I understand the cape started out as a kerchief worn over the shoulders, with the tips tucked into the belt--tips of a kerchief don't cover much. I would not be surprised if the wearing of a cape is related to wearing a shawl for warmth, possibly the peasant version of shawl.

 

The Mennonite and Amish of today are mainly of German peasant stock, I think. Maybe someday I can research this in more depth. Peasant women had to work, which would have made the wearing of a shawl very inconvenient, not to mention that they might not have had the luxury of owning a shawl. Yet their huts must have been cold in winter. Throwing a kerchief across the shoulders might have helped retain body temperatures. Tucking it into the belt would have secured it for work around cooking fires.

 

When they crossed the ocean, and after a few generations settled into relative prosperity in the new world, the cape may have been retained more as an identity or cultural marker than necessity. Then came the nineteenth century when modernism was taking over North America with a vengeance, and churches were splitting left and right into conservative and liberal elements. There are records for the mainline Swiss Mennonite church that by about 1890, traditional identity markers were hardened into test of membership church rules based on scriptural authority.

 

I saw a paper by a Mennonite historian on the women's head-covering where this was the case for the Ontario mainline Mennonites. I talked with a man who told me his mother or grandmother (I forget the details) was a teenaged girl about 1900 or 1910 and wanted to get higher education. The church suddenly decided to ban higher education and she was not allowed to get it. This would be in keeping with the tightening of church rules around the turn of the 20th century. My guess is that the "cape as modesty" argument was developed around the same time.

 

Regardless of what others think, that is not why I wear it. I wear it because it is part of my identity. I've got enough changes to make; can't be forced to change dress, too. Outward appearance is just that--outward appearance. What matters to me is what's inside.

[live and learn]

Regardless of what others think, that is not why I wear it. I wear it because it is part of my identity. I've got enough changes to make; can't be forced to change dress, too. Outward appearance is just that--outward appearance. What matters to me is what's inside.

 

 

Rubysera,

Thanks for the interesting background on the cape dress. Once again I "Live and Learn"!

For myself, I'd be quite happy never to wear a dress again. I just hate those frickin' pantyhose! But then I deconverted at a younger age and from a less strict Mennonite segment, so the change was not so drastic for me. You have definitely earned the right to dress any way that you feel comfortable without me questioning. I guess I was just so surprised because the whole dress thing was one of the most irritating aspect of the religion.

[live and learn]

Dear live and learn,

 

I'm new to this website, I just wanted to say that I was raised as a mennonite brethren in California. I never had the restrictions that you had, although they were strongly suggested, but my parents had some of them when they were younger. I do not know any other mennonites who have rejected their faith outright, although I have met a few who were disillusioned.

 

By the way, the link is broken in your last comment.

 

-Brad

 

Thanks for fixing the link, BSC. I've been in and out on the forums here for a while now, doing much more reading than writing. I think you'll really find it fascinating.

I never think of California as home to Mennonites. Did you leave that church before you left religion in general, or exit directly from Mennonite-ism?

[babysealclubber]

 

Thanks for fixing the link, BSC. I've been in and out on the forums here for a while now, doing much more reading than writing. I think you'll really find it fascinating.

I never think of California as home to Mennonites. Did you leave that church before you left religion in general, or exit directly from Mennonite-ism?

 

 

No problem.

 

I may have given the wrong impression by stating that I was raised a Mennonite. I am still a member of the church I grew up in. I am struggling with (among other things) how I will break the news of my fairly recent "de-conversion" to my family and friends, or even if I should. I must say that this site has been a big support to me, and reading some of the stories on this thread has given me perspective on just how easy I have it. I doubt that I would feel forced to leave the continent at the very least! Although I would be surprised if I would be able to associate with other members in the community.

 

There are many Mennonites living in the Central Valley of California, between Sacramento and Bakersfield. I do not know of any horse and buggy types here. The strictest forbid radios, computers, and other electronic wizardry, and have traditional dress codes. The most liberal are barely distinguishable from any other anabaptist church. Obviously, I have internet access and a computer, so our church leans towards the liberal end. The communities are fairly tight-knit, and tend to cluster together in small towns. A good percentage of them are farmers, as my family is.

 

Thanks again.

[babysealclubber]

Oh, I want to add that, similar to what others have stated, I had seriously considered moving to a stricter church north of where I am. That was when I was first questioning how I was raised. The rest was all downhill.

[Guest Clodomir]

I've only lived on the west coast... no Amish there.

 

 

Interesting census maps of churches by county...

 

http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/geo/courses/geo200/religion.html

[ogilvy]

When I was a serious fundy I played with the idea of going Amish or something like that...... Scary that I wouldve wished that oppression on myself, but I kinda bought into the whole "being apart from the world" that started the Amish in the first place. But in my deluded state o' mind it seemed perfectly logical if I wanted to follow all the babbles good orders.

 

Dont know about ya'll but whenever I read the stories of xians doing terrible things to themselves and others in the "name o' god", I shudder b/c I can remember when I might have done much the same.

if the bible was God's word, then i think joining a group of 'plain people' would be the logical thing to do, because it's impossible to avoid worldly living whilst living in normal society. if there had been a group of plain people who didnt believe you could lose your salvation, i would have liked to join that, when i was serious about following the bible. being involved with the mennonites made me scared of hell, i.e. arminian doctrine, and i couldnt take it. what i'm saying is that if the bible really is true, then being a mennonite wouldnt be stupid. however, i came to think that being amish or mennonite didnt necessarily mean being spiritual. i felt that being spiritual involved being apart from the world, but being apart from the world didnt necessarily involve being spiritual. in fact, you wouldnt even have to be a christian to live an amish lifestyle.

 

apart from the biblical connotations, i think the amish way of life is perfectly logical if a person, for any reason, wished to avoid modern day society, as long as its a personal choice. its hard to live in this society without being involved with a lot of things one might find repugnant for some reason or other. i still like the concept of the amish mennonites, though not every aspect of it by any means.

[crazycanuck]

Hmmm...I can't believe anyone hasn't brought up the lyrics to THIS song yet...(it's older, released in '96 I believe)

 

http://www.elyrics.net/read/w/weird-al-yan...ise-lyrics.html

 

Now that I am an exchristian, the lines near the end about "I'm a million times as humble as thou art..." and "...on my knees day and night scoring points for the afterlife..." really strike me as funny/ironic. As a Christian I was offended by this song (slightly) after all, you don't make fun of others religions...! Now I find the little "barbs" in it amusing.

 

I don't remember when this came out if there was alot of controversy about it...somehow I can't picture Mennonites being offended like the Danish cartoon situation/Muslims and putting a death threat over Weird Al's head, LOL

 

Dh was raised in the Mennonite tradition (Mennonite-Bretheren, many in my inlaws church wear traditonal bonnet, cape etc but they never did), and is a bit bitter about it, remembers much legalism, nit picking, not being allowed to go to various activites because they were on Sunday. My mother in law is HORRIFIED that we both want to be cremated (but what about the rapture...?!?!?) so much so we both specified it in our will specifically so it was "black and white" and at least I could say to her that is what dh would want! She was forbidden to marry my now "step" father-in-law when she was 18 because he went to the wrong mennonite church. Whoa! We now live in an area in Canada, like RubySera does, with a very high concentration of mennonites, and still have immigrant families coming from Belieze, Paraguay, Mexico, etc which originated in Russia and Germany. Culturally, very interesting to me to see the dress, etc. But, it's interesting looking at this city as an "outsider" from Christianity now. For example, we are a "dry" town, bylaws forbid liquor stores, but only in the last few years have the restauraunts been allowed to serve alcohol (and it must be with a meal, no just going in and having a drink). When that was voted in with the liquor referendum, the uproar in the local paper was unbelievable, many bemoaned the fact we were becoming godless, etc! But, we all know that one can drive a few km away and go the "liquor store" and it's OK because it is outside the municipal boundary, LOL! As a christian, I would of thought this "strictness" was called for at least, but now it just looks like legalism and double speak. Funny what changing your paradigms does to the way you see things.

[R. S. Martin]

I love this conversation. At last some Mennonite issues are discussed, such as moving to a more strict community, to really keep the biblical command. There was a time when I thought going Amish would be more biblical because there really was no stricter Mennonite group to go to but the Amish in the Aylmer area were plainer than we were. No electricity, no buttons, no flowery dresses, etc. We didn't have electricity on our home farm but Dad had an engine to pump water. It was causing a lot of problems and I thought perhaps that was a sign from God that we shouldn't have an engine and should use other means to pump our water for the animals. Also, the Amish believed in having their girls wearing a head-covering and our Mennonite group did not. I seriously questioned that our church correstly interpreted the Corinthian passage about the head-covering being only for married women and not for single women and girls; it made no sense to me to read it that way.

 

When I talked to my parents about going Amish and about the problems with the engine, Mom said my ideas about the Amish just came from reading the stories in the Amish magazine we were getting. About the engine she said things just went wrong sometimes. Her tone of voice told me she wanted no trouble from me. So I said no more on the topic. But I did not understand why things going wrong could be signs from God at certain times but not other times. Why was it a sign from God only when it was convenient or made you look like a saint, but not when it was inconvenient or made you look stupid? Dad always said we had to stand up for our beliefs regardless of what people said. I was about 14-16 at the time and knew what was good for me; I did not ask those questions. Nor did I say another word about going Amish.

 

i came to think that being amish or mennonite didnt necessarily mean being spiritual. i felt that being spiritual involved being apart from the world, but being apart from the world didnt necessarily involve being spiritual. in fact, you wouldnt even have to be a christian to live an amish lifestyle.

 

You're absolutely right. I've known a few scattered families that drove horse and buggy but were not affiliated with any church. I don't know if they believed in God or not. I assumed they did because I could not imagine otherwise but I realize now that this is not guaranteed; for their own self-preservation they would have kept their mouths sealed if they didn't. Besides, I myself have been an atheist of sorts all my life--I did my best to believe but never saw any evidence that made for true conviction.

 

apart from the biblical connotations, i think the amish way of life is perfectly logical if a person, for any reason, wished to avoid modern day society, as long as its a personal choice. its hard to live in this society without being involved with a lot of things one might find repugnant for some reason or other. i still like the concept of the amish mennonites, though not every aspect of it by any means.

 

Some New Age or other groups have tried doing this, and living in communes, basing it off the Plain lifestyle. I don't personally know any cases but I've heard that all such attempts last only half a dozen years or less because it's usually college students who are looking for a utopia and don't want to invest the hard work that goes along with it. However, I am aware of the very strong ethnocentrism (pride in own culture and disdain for outsiders) that the Plain People carry; they would make it sound at least as bad as it really is. Maybe these "New Agers" never intended it as a life-long endeavor; I have no way of knowing.

[live and learn]

http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/geo/courses/geo200/religion.html

 

 

That is a really interesting link, Clodomir. Thanks.

[live and learn]

"Party like it's 1699"! I about choked laughing! Ain't it the truth.

Yep, humility and modesty are the only things to be proud about. Irony, like sarcasm, are not concepts familiar to the Amish/Mennonites (A/M).

 

I bet most never heard of Wierd Al. It's SO much easier to not be offended and to turn the other cheek when your entire world is composed of people who dress, act, and think (or rather don't think) like you do. Unfortunately, that just makes it that much more painful when one does come into contact with the "worldly" world.

 

 

Yep, the More Correct the religion, the longer the list of things you're not allowed to do.

 

Funny what changing your paradigms does to the way you see things.

 

You hit the nail on the head with that. The horse and buggy people put blinders on their horses so they cannot be distracted by anything other than what they want them to see. Doesn't work quite as well for children, I guess, but it's about the same principle. What evil ways might my father have learned by moving beyond his 8th grade education?!?

 

I am still bitter, too. Maybe I'll get that worked out in time.