Admin webmdave Posted January 29, 2008 Admin Share Posted January 29, 2008 By Kent I believe in life after death. So do you. The death of once living animals and plants nourish us. That is why we eat. When plants and animals are eaten, they are transmuted into whatever life form consumes them. Even when flora and fauna are not eaten, their decomposition returns nutrients to the soil or sea. These nutrients are eventually taken up by some form of life and reincarnated. This is the way of the world. Living things die so that other living things may live. Life follows death. I don’t, however, believe individual consciousness transcends death. How could it? Consciousness depends on, and cannot be separated out from, our biological living bodies. Yes, our sense of self –which is as close as I can get to understanding what people mean by the word soul– usually endures throughout our lifetime. It survives sleep and periods of unconsciousness. But it is always affixed to our bodies. There is no way for our sense of self to continue once our corporeal senses are dead. When most people speak of life after death, they use sense words like seeing and hearing. They say things of the dead person like, “She is watching her daughter grow from a better place.†But seeing requires eyes and hearing requires ears. With what eyes is a dead person watching? With what ears is a dead person hearing? None. So clearly people who speak of life after death in that way can’t really mean what they are saying. They must mean something else. But what that something else is, I couldn’t say. And neither can they–at least I have never heard or read anyone explain what is really meant when vision or hearing is attributed to a dead person. Seeing requires a viewpoint. One must be located somewhere in space. One cannot be everywhere or nowhere and be able to see any- thing. Vision is a physical interaction with light. Therefore, to see, one must be a physical entity. One cannot be nonphysical, spiritual only, and see. The same is true of all our senses. So disembodied souls are senseless. I believe in life after death whenever dead plants or animals are transubstantiated into the body of a still living being. And so do you. That is why you eat. I don’t believe in the continuation of individual consciousness after death. Do you? http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2008/01...fter-death.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I tend to, but only because I feel that I've received evidence. I don't expect my evidence to convince others, however, and am not here to sell a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I believe in a continuation after death in another form of existance and that it just because I want to believe it, there is no proof. When I die and if it doesn't happen, I won't have time to be disappointed anyway! All the ramblings and psychobabble I've heard growing up just does not have any proof behind the claims. I like to think I will see my relatives and friends and pets again but I don't know. When I die, it won't matter. I'll have my final answer then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Here is my take on it. If you look into astronomy, you will see that our universe is a bubble, an expanding bubble in a space called "cosmic singlarity". It is believed that within the CS there is countless numbers of "universes" or bubbles. These bubbles may make up their own swirling mutli-universes. So, if infinity is truly a spinning number, meaning total endlessness, then the exisitance of just one, is indicative of the existance of countless ones of the same, with limitless variations of the same. That being considered, this means it is "possible", using your existance today as evidence, that you will exist again and again, endlessly for all time. No "god" required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nude Disintegrating Parachutist Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 In reference to the nourishment provided by death to the living in the OP, this one of the few things I think Christian theology gets right in it's usage of "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust" for burial service as adapted from Genesis 3:19, all things in existence sprang from the same chemical process and all will return to that chemical process to be recycled and reprocessed into new forms of existence, organic and inorganic. I guess this could be defined as a form of reincarnation of sorts or more to the point iI just see it as the circle of life. But the only evidence I see of anything that could be referred to as life after the death in any real sense is the that provided by the passing on of DNA to the progeny of all living things, this is the only life after death I see any evidence of, the only way you can live on past your physical death. Also the closest thing to eternal life we can hope to achieve also comes from the passing on of said DNA, in other words if you want to live forever you better start sexing it up out there and spread that genetic material around...of course even if you don't fret over life after death and eternal life, sex is still a most worthy consideration As to life after death or immortality in the spiritual sense...in my short time on this planet I have never seen anything that would lead me to think this is in fact a possibillty, this not to say that it emphatically can not be passible, but for me, like god or all things supernatural in general there is simple no evidence that I have observed that would allow me to believe that it is even vaguely possible, but of course as always...YMMV. ...so now that you know where I stand...any fine evil backsliding heathen ex-christain woman out there wanna little shot at immortality ...and just to beat you to the punch............... ...just a little bored here ...oh and you can me later if you feel the need ...stupid emoticons....can't use just one ...dammit stop that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 For me, the odds are even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Good topic. In regards to the question (Do I believe in the continuation of individual consciousness after death?), I consider the fact that I can't comprehend how long the earth has been here and, in turn, I can't comprehend mankind's time on the planet. But I know that there have been countless lives before mine and there will be countless lives long after I'm gone. Each individual life has been filled with joys and sorrows and lessons to be learned. Each person lived and attempted to accomplish something. We can see direct evidence of those who've been here before us, but in reality, we know next to nothing about them on a personal level. In the overwhelmingly vast majority of lives that have inhabited this planet before us, individuals are utterly unknown and forgotten and proof or evidence that anyone has "continued on" after physical death in any way, shape or form is nonexistant. And though I believe we are more than "animals", I believe that we're no different than any animal in the scope of birth, life, and death. We live and we die. Just like those before us. Just like those after us. I think that's a fair enough deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellsybop Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I think we just die.. but I think of the possibility of reincarnation once in a while. I really don't spin my wheels giving it a lot of thought any more because it doesn't change what the outcome will be anyway. But this is an interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 The lack of an afterlife was the hardest part of atheism to get my head around for a while. I at least wanted somewhere to say to the fundys "see, I told you HE wasn't like that." but in my mind its simple math (mathgeek will appreciate this.) Of the hundred billion or so folks who have departed before us, not one has bothered to come back to say "it's ok over here", or, "run, its a trick." Nothing. NADA. You'd think we'd at least get a weather report once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 This just in from Happy Tangent Land... Big Brain Theory It could be the weirdest and most embarrassing prediction in the history of cosmology, if not science. If true, it would mean that you yourself reading this article are more likely to be some momentary fluctuation in a field of matter and energy out in space than a person with a real past born through billions of years of evolution in an orderly star-spangled cosmos. Your memories and the world you think you see around you are illusions. The basic problem is that across the eons of time, the standard theories suggest, the universe can recur over and over again in an endless cycle of big bangs, but it’s hard for nature to make a whole universe. It’s much easier to make fragments of one, like planets, yourself maybe in a spacesuit or even — in the most absurd and troubling example — a naked brain floating in space. Nature tends to do what is easiest, from the standpoint of energy and probability. And so these fragments — in particular the brains — would appear far more frequently than real full-fledged universes, or than us. Or they might be us. Very cool article at any rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 By Kent I don’t believe in the continuation of individual consciousness after death. Do you? http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2008/01...fter-death.html No, I don't. I pretty much agree with you down the line. Consciousness is a function of matter. No brain, no consciousness. When I die, I'll be gone forever. And I really don't care. I'm here now. The present is far more important than the past or future. The only reason I ever think of the past is to improve the present. The only reason I even think of the future is that it will be the present, and I hope to be part of it. I want my children to be part of it, and to do well in it, maybe have some children of their own. It should be quite enough to live now. Now is all we really ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "We're ALL gonna die!" - Sonny Landham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 By Kent I don’t believe in the continuation of individual consciousness after death. Do you? http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2008/01...fter-death.html No, I don't. I pretty much agree with you down the line. Consciousness is a function of matter. No brain, no consciousness. When I die, I'll be gone forever. And I really don't care. I'm here now. The present is far more important than the past or future. The only reason I ever think of the past is to improve the present. The only reason I even think of the future is that it will be the present, and I hope to be part of it. I want my children to be part of it, and to do well in it, maybe have some children of their own. It should be quite enough to live now. Now is all we really ever have. RO, Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophronia Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 It should be quite enough to live now. Now is all we really ever have. Amen! Reminds me of a good ol' Country Joe and the Fish song (yes, I do listen to some hippieshit)... I forgot the name of the song but it was on the Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die album. The song fades out with one line repeated over and over, "Life Before Death..." i think it is on the last song from the first side of the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 To quote the play "RENT," "There's only us...There's only this...Forget regret for life only this" or something like that...LOL. But pretty much true. I have my own theory for NDE's. I believe the unconscious takes hold, momentarily, and you see everything you long to see. So if you're christian you see Jesus. If you are Muslim you see Allah(and the virgins). And so fourth. Then you fade out...And go back to the earth and nourish all of the plants and animals. To me that is beautiful, in a sense. I'm a nature/animal lover. So just knowing that I am an intrinsic part of this planet is a beautiful thing. I do think reincarnation is possible though...No gods required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I for one would rather be immortal...there is so much to see in the universe. However it seems I'll have to content myself with what I know to expect in this life. But then I am young, I suppose the longer I live the less enamored of this life I will become, until despairing of it I wish for release rather than continued consciousness. Wow what depressing thoughts I have..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I for one would rather be immortal...there is so much to see in the universe. However it seems I'll have to content myself with what I know to expect in this life. But then I am young, I suppose the longer I live the less enamored of this life I will become, until despairing of it I wish for release rather than continued consciousness. Wow what depressing thoughts I have..... Well, I kinda think you are immortal, AND yet, ALSO are not. When you die you are dead. Period. BUT... (and this is a cool "but") It is possible, and quite probable that you will live again. Think about this for a second. Other then the dreaming stage, there are times while asleep where you simply do not exist from a consciousness point of view. But you wake, or start dreaming, and exist again. Now, think about astronomy. If the big bang, which happened in a section of space we call the "cosmic singularity" happened *just* once, then it likely is happening over and over through-out infinity. We call this the multiverse. Also there is endless time to consider. At the edge of the universe there is the edge of the big bang called "time zero". Since light has to travel before it reaches your eyes, it takes time to get to you. So, looking at things farther away, gives you a glimpse into it's past calculated by the distance vs the speed of light. Now, at "time zero" or the edge of the cosmic singularity, you are at the "present" as far as light and vision is concerned. But that really does not "MEAN" that time ends at time zero, it only means you caught up with emitting light.(from the edge of CS that is, not all the other things) Passing beyond the big bang barrier, would not launch you into the future, you would be going again, backward in time, since you are now moving away from the light edge. Time may not even really exist. There may only be an awareness of change, and movements, we call it time for a need to define our observation. At the speed of light, your "view" of time can be altered, but not actual time itself. *If* time does not really exist it therefore cannot end.. So, if *time* existing or not, is endless, and space is endless (it does not exist either, it is an observation of distance, true space is void) , then the existence of JUST ONE should mean, at the very *least* that *your* consciousness IS possible. But I think it is more then that. The fact that you existed just once, as in my other post, could very well turn out to be one day a mathamatical proof you will exist again and again, endlessly, somewhere. It is said that if you gave enough monkeys typewriters they would eventually quote Shakespeare. Well, we cannot really wrap our minds around endless space and time no matter how hard we try, but if we could, I think that maybe, on the surface, the monkey's could write Shakespeare... or maybe NOT. Why NO then? Following my logic here, should not the monkeys in infinity quote Shakespeare? NO the reason the answer is NO is because for this example to be proven as true, you need ONE monkey that can quote Shakespeare first. Then, you have countless billions in infinity doing it too. ONE in infinity is proof IMO of countless and endless reproductions of not only the same, but any possible variation of the same.. So, yes, I believe we are all immortal and mortal. You do die and become dead and non-existent, but you DO come back, having established yourself in the cosmic scheme of things by existing once. What is really COOL about this, is that since you do not exist, you won't be bored with the passage of time, may take trillions of years, but to you, it would be like dieing, then instantly waking up with a doctor slapping your ass. NO GOD REQUIRED. which brings me to god in this equation. There CANNOT be one lone god in infinity. If one exists, same as us, countless, endless gods and variations of the same peppered throughout the multiverse. I have said the above before, but I really do have a hard time putting it into words. It seems pretty obvious to me, we ARE paradox. We are immortal, but mortal at the same time. Nobody ever remembers past selves due to memory being a function of the brain. You cannot remember past manifestations of YOU because, paradoxically, they were not YOU, yet they were your window into reality, or consciousness. Does this make sense? Added a bit of bolding and formatting to some of the key points to make it clearer. I am not that good of a communicator, but I think this theory has a lot of merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 WOW. Yes that does make sense and is certainly the most interesting thing Ive heard all day. Thanks for taking the time to communicate that. I guess we'll find out....or rather we won't... but we'll still exist, which is pretty good. I suppose that is totally possible....whoa...just whoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I want some of whatever Michael is smokin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I want some of whatever Michael is smokin'. You mean "Pandora's Dream"? Sorry, private stash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 It is said that if you gave enough monkeys typewriters they would eventually quote Shakespeare. Well, we cannot really wrap our minds around endless space and time no matter how hard we try, but if we could, I think that maybe, on the surface, the monkey's could write Shakespeare... "We've all heard that a million monkeys, banging on a million typewriters, would eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." --Robert Silensky Seriously, fascinating stuff, but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to quote one of my favorites. Having thought it through to its logical conclusion, I've actually come to my own conclusion there isn't enough money/sex/drugs/what-have-you in all of existence to convince me truly eternal life would be a good thing, even if I could live it as a young man. An indefinite life, to be "paused" (via something akin to hibernation) or ended at a time of my choosing? I'd be all over that like white on rice. But eternal life? The shine on that would wear off very quickly, in the full scope of things. I'm with Sophronia. I like to believe in life before death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 .....I believe in life after death Descendant command will revive you ........ only if you're good and dedicated...... they'll use technologx unknown to you. You believe this? Spatz P.S Dead is dead. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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