House Divided

[junkpoet]

i sort of did this thread in the rant, but i thought i would try it here. how many of you are in a marriage or committed relationship where one is a xian and the other is an x xian? i am in such a marriage. if you feel like talking about it, i thought we could do that on this thread.

 

i assume most of you on this sight are x xians, but some of you may be christians whose spouses are the x christian. i magine that is difficult to deal with. since my deconversion a year ago, my sweetie has put up with alot. at first, i was so excieted about my reading and discovering i really wanted to share and i didnt take her reaction to my sharing very well. since then i have modified my behaviour and basically try to avoid the conversation. i kind of wish she had somone to talk to about this stuff...i am sure she talks to friends at work, but they aren't very religious anyway, and plus their spouse has not just deconverted, so not much to relate to.

 

so in this mixed marriage situation, what is working? what isn't working? what about the kids? do you throw a fit about them going to church? church camp? jesus camp?

[exhihhuli]

i sort of did this thread in the rant, but i thought i would try it here. how many of you are in a marriage or committed relationship where one is a xian and the other is an x xian? i am in such a marriage. if you feel like talking about it, i thought we could do that on this thread.

 

i assume most of you on this sight are x xians, but some of you may be christians whose spouses are the x christian. i magine that is difficult to deal with. since my deconversion a year ago, my sweetie has put up with alot. at first, i was so excieted about my reading and discovering i really wanted to share and i didnt take her reaction to my sharing very well. since then i have modified my behaviour and basically try to avoid the conversation. i kind of wish she had somone to talk to about this stuff...i am sure she talks to friends at work, but they aren't very religious anyway, and plus their spouse has not just deconverted, so not much to relate to.

 

so in this mixed marriage situation, what is working? what isn't working? what about the kids? do you throw a fit about them going to church? church camp? jesus camp?

 

Hello junkpoet,

 

Usually I just lurk in the backgroung of the forums, reading the posts but refraining from commenting (mostly because I know that starting that will end up the site eating too much time that I don't have to spare at this point of my life). But this question is too close to home to ignore.

 

I married my wife 6 years ago, while we were both very much fundies. Actually for me the fundyness (which is not as prevalent here in Finland as in the States) was one of the key thing appealing in her. Couple years later I decided to research the basics of my belief. Two weeks after that I'm full-blown atheist. While at the same time she did shed a bit of her charismatic edge, she's still very active in her church and definitely a fundie.

 

In my experience (having watched couple such friends) the key variable is what place the faith has had in the relationship. If two persons meet and marry knowing their theological differences, or if the faith is just a personal and not a shared thing, a de-conversion is very manageable, in a similar way that most marriages can accommodate varying political views. Sure, real life questions like money use to tithing and time spent in church events are issues to discuss, but usually the two can come to a reasonable compromise on the issues.

 

The challenging thing is when like in my case (and I assume in your case) the common faith has been a key thing in the marriage. Having one person deconvert in such a situation is a major challenge to the relationship. A big part of the glue that holds the pair together is ripped away and actually becomes a wedge pushing them apart. In that kind of situation the other common things holding the marriage together need to be stronger, or the pair starts to drift apart.

 

I did the same thing like you, explaining in first my exciting new finds to a non-receptive audience. That does not work, since as everybody here knows, getting dedicated believers to convert based on rational argumentation is rather a steep hill to climb. Actually, knowing how much comfort she derives from her faith, my quest for truth and my love to her drive me to different directions in the question do I want that she deconverts. The status quo in our family is that usually the topic is not talked about, but for the occasional lament on either side that it is sad that we don't see eye to eye. She goes to her church meetings and I stay home. If she comments on her beliefs I consider them a fair game to be hunted on, but I try to do it in a civilized manner. Some of the things do irritate me, like the fact that she has recently gained new interest on demons and exorcism.

 

But the lack of the formerly important common thing means that we are drifting apart and I have been considering divorce; not immediately, but I see it as a likely outcome in the long term. There are other things behind it, religion is not the only or main thing, but it is a big elefant in the livingroom. Luckily for this situation we don't have kids, which makes the question much more simpler.

 

So unfortunately I don't have a good advice for you. Do consider if the things you have in common can carry you over the different worldviews, and try to emphasize them, and make the faith a personal thing, for both of you. But there is no going back to way things were. After you take the red pill, everything changes permanently.

[4truth]

My husband and I have been married for 29 years. Christianity was definitely the foundation of our marriage and family life. Four months ago I realized that I didn't believe all of the garbage I'd been told all of my life and deconverted. It has been a huge adjustment. My husband right now prefers the denial route and refuses to talk about anything spiritual. It's very frustrating to me since I am figuring out more lies and absurdities all of the time.

 

Things were very uncomfortable for awhile, but are getting a little better. We are focusing more on things that we like to do together. It's been a challenge to re-define our marriage after so long. I still hope that soon he will let me talk about what I've learned. If he would, I think I could change his mind in about 30 minutes. He's really a very logical man; right now it's just too threatening to him to consider changing the only belief system and social support he has ever known.

 

Since our children are grown we at least don't have to work out any of those issues. I regret raising my children to be fundies, but hope that they will listen to reason with time. I haven't talked to them much about it. Just working out the marriage issue is enough of a challenge for me right now.

[HappyB4]

I thought I'd chime in. Junkpoet - I think you already know where I'm at, so maybe this is for those lurkers who might want to chime in and share.

 

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no easy nswers to offer at this point. I can "listen" and share if anyone needs it. I am currently frustrated beyond belief and this battle is wearing me out! We are definately a house divided. We currently talk about this stuff any time the kids are asleep or busy. We do listen to each other but often get in some nasty fights. He argues prophecy and I argue that I just don't believe it and even if I believed there was a god, is it the hebrew/Chirstian God? If so, how can I worship such a monster?? If ever I was to believe, I am sure I would sink into a depression to have to live for a god who killed so many people for not believing in him. The killing of the children is especially troublesome to me. It bothers me that this doesn't bother him.

 

Anyway, (I ramble a lot) my husband says he's not giving up on me. He wants me in heaven with him and the kids. He tells me I can be an outsider if I want to but that our kids WILL be raised as Christians. I'm not sure how I feel about all this. Everything I do is for our family. I put our family first...not Go. (BTW - That's another thing I never liked) I could never quite love an invisible entity like I love my family.

 

I think I am OK with the kids learning about what a Christian is, but I don't want them to think they HAVE to be Christians...but how do you do that if they are going to church??? Also, we go (yes I still go) to a very conservative SB church. They have a Children's Evangelical Group that is quite disturbing to me. I don't want my lovely children to be the weird ones witnessing to their friends. Also - I did finally watch Jesus Camp and it freaked me out. Those kids were so intense. Man - I wonder if they ever get to just play and be kids? Our church is not that bad, but they are pushy. Everything is "let's build this kingdom...invite everyone you know. They're really big on the Great Commission. Can't you ever just have a friend without pushing Jesus???? I've got to get out.

 

Part of me loves the talking and debating. It definately sparked things up a bit. I think we have learned a lot about each other these past few months. However, I don't think he will ever admit what he knows to be true. It is all he has ever known. He always talks about how he wants our family to be like his was when he was growing up....very Chirst centered. I just wonder what will happen in our lives. I hope we can stay close should we remain divided.

 

I have more to say, but time is limited. Two kiddos and a nosy hubby.

[junkpoet]

i sort of did this thread in the rant, but i thought i would try it here. how many of you are in a marriage or committed relationship where one is a xian and the other is an x xian? i am in such a marriage. if you feel like talking about it, i thought we could do that on this thread.

 

i assume most of you on this sight are x xians, but some of you may be christians whose spouses are the x christian. i magine that is difficult to deal with. since my deconversion a year ago, my sweetie has put up with alot. at first, i was so excieted about my reading and discovering i really wanted to share and i didnt take her reaction to my sharing very well. since then i have modified my behaviour and basically try to avoid the conversation. i kind of wish she had somone to talk to about this stuff...i am sure she talks to friends at work, but they aren't very religious anyway, and plus their spouse has not just deconverted, so not much to relate to.

 

so in this mixed marriage situation, what is working? what isn't working? what about the kids? do you throw a fit about them going to church? church camp? jesus camp?

 

Hello junkpoet,

 

Usually I just lurk in the backgroung of the forums, reading the posts but refraining from commenting (mostly because I know that starting that will end up the site eating too much time that I don't have to spare at this point of my life). But this question is too close to home to ignore.

 

I married my wife 6 years ago, while we were both very much fundies. Actually for me the fundyness (which is not as prevalent here in Finland as in the States) was one of the key thing appealing in her. Couple years later I decided to research the basics of my belief. Two weeks after that I'm full-blown atheist. While at the same time she did shed a bit of her charismatic edge, she's still very active in her church and definitely a fundie.

 

In my experience (having watched couple such friends) the key variable is what place the faith has had in the relationship. If two persons meet and marry knowing their theological differences, or if the faith is just a personal and not a shared thing, a de-conversion is very manageable, in a similar way that most marriages can accommodate varying political views. Sure, real life questions like money use to tithing and time spent in church events are issues to discuss, but usually the two can come to a reasonable compromise on the issues.

 

The challenging thing is when like in my case (and I assume in your case) the common faith has been a key thing in the marriage. Having one person deconvert in such a situation is a major challenge to the relationship. A big part of the glue that holds the pair together is ripped away and actually becomes a wedge pushing them apart. In that kind of situation the other common things holding the marriage together need to be stronger, or the pair starts to drift apart.

 

I did the same thing like you, explaining in first my exciting new finds to a non-receptive audience. That does not work, since as everybody here knows, getting dedicated believers to convert based on rational argumentation is rather a steep hill to climb. Actually, knowing how much comfort she derives from her faith, my quest for truth and my love to her drive me to different directions in the question do I want that she deconverts. The status quo in our family is that usually the topic is not talked about, but for the occasional lament on either side that it is sad that we don't see eye to eye. She goes to her church meetings and I stay home. If she comments on her beliefs I consider them a fair game to be hunted on, but I try to do it in a civilized manner. Some of the things do irritate me, like the fact that she has recently gained new interest on demons and exorcism.

 

But the lack of the formerly important common thing means that we are drifting apart and I have been considering divorce; not immediately, but I see it as a likely outcome in the long term. There are other things behind it, religion is not the only or main thing, but it is a big elefant in the livingroom. Luckily for this situation we don't have kids, which makes the question much more simpler.

 

So unfortunately I don't have a good advice for you. Do consider if the things you have in common can carry you over the different worldviews, and try to emphasize them, and make the faith a personal thing, for both of you. But there is no going back to way things were. After you take the red pill, everything changes permanently.

thanks for sharing.

[junkpoet]

My husband and I have been married for 29 years. Christianity was definitely the foundation of our marriage and family life. Four months ago I realized that I didn't believe all of the garbage I'd been told all of my life and deconverted. It has been a huge adjustment. My husband right now prefers the denial route and refuses to talk about anything spiritual. It's very frustrating to me since I am figuring out more lies and absurdities all of the time.

 

Things were very uncomfortable for awhile, but are getting a little better. We are focusing more on things that we like to do together. It's been a challenge to re-define our marriage after so long. I still hope that soon he will let me talk about what I've learned. If he would, I think I could change his mind in about 30 minutes. He's really a very logical man; right now it's just too threatening to him to consider changing the only belief system and social support he has ever known.

 

Since our children are grown we at least don't have to work out any of those issues. I regret raising my children to be fundies, but hope that they will listen to reason with time. I haven't talked to them much about it. Just working out the marriage issue is enough of a challenge for me right now.

 

you bring up and interesting point. "We are focusing more on things that we like to do together. It's been a challenge to re-define our marriage after so long." i am probably just doing some wishful thinking here, but do you think it is possible that a change like this (one spouse deconverting) could be a positive in some ways? i mean, since my deconversion, there are ways in which i feel closer to my wife. i am working harder and finding and putting emphasis on those activities that we both enjoy. i try to plan stuff for she and i to do together. and is a new difinition of a marriage after a while a good thing? when i see couples, religious couples, that have been married a while, even ten years or like my folks, 30 plus years, it seems the relationships are so stagnent.

 

i think people get stuck in an intellectual rut and everything about them and their relationships just wilts. my sweetie is more passionate since my deconversion 13 months ago. i think it scared her and jump started her brain. she is still a fundy, but she is thinking about the issues. as the deconverted spouse, if we are committed to keeping the marriage, we have to be patient and not expect our spouses journey to follow our own. i have posted this advice before, i cant remember who wrote it to me, but i have followed it and it has helped me.

 

1. Do not make it an intellectual argument. This will get you nowhere and also amounts to "you're stupid if you believe in...." This helps no one - least of all her.

 

2. Do not pressure her to agree with you. If you discuss religion - make it solely about her. Be sure to let her know that your love is unconditional and that you will love her if she believes in God or not.

 

3. Keep the children out of the discussion of religion. I undersand the fight against indoctrinization - but you don't have to worry about it - they will come to you with questions. When they ask - be respectful but honest.

 

4. Start making plans every sunday. EVERY SUNDAY. Let it conflict with Church. If she dreads church - give her a reason to not go. Extend the invitation - "ask her out." This empowers her to say no and make her own decisions.

 

5. You know her better than just about anybody and have a bigger stake in this than anybody. Don't gamble. If you are getting extreme resistance - then don't fight religion - fight the guilt and shame. When she exhibits characteristics that support the negative feelings - correct them in a complimentary way.

[HoustonHorn]

We are focusing more on things that we like to do together. It's been a challenge to re-define our marriage after so long

That one hit me as well. Reading it I just realized that when we were both Christians the only things we did together revolved around church, or at least involved friends from church. For the past couple of years we've not been doing as much together because I wasn't going to church. But in the last couple of months we've been making an effort to find new things to do together and it's helped a lot.

[Light_of_Reason]

My wife and I have been married for nearly four years and are expecting our first child, which may complicate things a lot. But I was a deconvert before we met, and she has known that about me since we were dating. And somehow, she still managed to fall for me and marry me.

 

Religion has never been a big issue with us. Yeah, she was raised Southern Baptist, but she has always been far more interested in science and truth than even she realizes. She is currently taking an evolution class and is altering her religious views in ways she had before thought impossible. Will she ever give up religion? I don't know, but I find it highly unlikely as it is an emotional crutch for her, and she has not had an easy life. Sometimes it is just better to let her have the crutch and deny reality in ways I cannot.

 

Best of all for me is that she is very open-minded. She wants more to teach her children how to act and how to think than to teach them what to think, and that is my biggest agenda. I don't want brain-dead, mind-washed zombies for children. I want them to believe what they want, but only if they can support it with some kind of rational justifications.

 

All said, we have a fairly solid relationship, though it has taken some blows by close friends seeming to constantly move away and being extremely slow and difficult to replace, which has injured our social life. But we are getting on better than I thought I would with a religious person as a spouse, and that says a lot to me.

[4truth]

I think that you are right that there are some positive things about a major change like deconversion. We are both trying harder to be more understanding and patient with each other. It has been almost like getting to know each other all over again since we aren't who we thought we were. Finding new interests together has gotten us out of the huge rut we were in. I'm glad we had a good marriage going into this because it has been a difficult process. We are committed to making this work. We've had too many years together to let this tear us apart.

 

Good guidelines, Junkpoet. Sometimes it's hard for me to understand why he can't see things like I do. I need to be less obsessed about my newfound un-faith.

[HappyB4]

My wife and I have been married for nearly four years and are expecting our first child, which may complicate things a lot. But I was a deconvert before we met, and she has known that about me since we were dating. And somehow, she still managed to fall for me and marry me.

 

Religion has never been a big issue with us. Yeah, she was raised Southern Baptist, but she has always been far more interested in science and truth than even she realizes. She is currently taking an evolution class and is altering her religious views in ways she had before thought impossible. Will she ever give up religion? I don't know, but I find it highly unlikely as it is an emotional crutch for her, and she has not had an easy life. Sometimes it is just better to let her have the crutch and deny reality in ways I cannot.

 

Best of all for me is that she is very open-minded. She wants more to teach her children how to act and how to think than to teach them what to think, and that is my biggest agenda. I don't want brain-dead, mind-washed zombies for children. I want them to believe what they want, but only if they can support it with some kind of rational justifications.

 

All said, we have a fairly solid relationship, though it has taken some blows by close friends seeming to constantly move away and being extremely slow and difficult to replace, which has injured our social life. But we are getting on better than I thought I would with a religious person as a spouse, and that says a lot to me.

 

 

Hey LOR -

 

Lucky you! It sounds like you may have the best shot of eventually having a Christian-free home. The evolution class sounds like a good sign. Congrats on the upcoming baby! We have 2 and are also going on 4 years of marriage. '

 

For us, the children are the biggest issue of all. I don't think this would be nearly as traumatic if we didn't have others to think about. It sounds like your wife is very open to raising thinking for themselves types of children even though she's a Christian. I think that's great!

 

I understand about the friends moving away. We are the ones who moved away from everybody, though. All our friends here are from the church and there's only one that I really hope to remain friends with when this blows over. Right now I'm in a weird spot. I get emails and phone calls for prayer requests from my "friends." I just can't tell them, yet. Anyway, it can get lonely without the support of close friends. I miss the socializing...going out for drinks, cook outs, etc.. We're always "fellowshipping" which is not the same thing and does nothing for me. I can't continue to keep this up for long! Anyway, I hope we can some friends that we can kick back and have a good time with. I hope you can too! Good luck!

[junkpoet]

My wife and I have been married for nearly four years and are expecting our first child, which may complicate things a lot. But I was a deconvert before we met, and she has known that about me since we were dating. And somehow, she still managed to fall for me and marry me.

 

Religion has never been a big issue with us. Yeah, she was raised Southern Baptist, but she has always been far more interested in science and truth than even she realizes. She is currently taking an evolution class and is altering her religious views in ways she had before thought impossible. Will she ever give up religion? I don't know, but I find it highly unlikely as it is an emotional crutch for her, and she has not had an easy life. Sometimes it is just better to let her have the crutch and deny reality in ways I cannot.

 

Best of all for me is that she is very open-minded. She wants more to teach her children how to act and how to think than to teach them what to think, and that is my biggest agenda. I don't want brain-dead, mind-washed zombies for children. I want them to believe what they want, but only if they can support it with some kind of rational justifications.

 

All said, we have a fairly solid relationship, though it has taken some blows by close friends seeming to constantly move away and being extremely slow and difficult to replace, which has injured our social life. But we are getting on better than I thought I would with a religious person as a spouse, and that says a lot to me.

 

 

Hey LOR -

 

Lucky you! It sounds like you may have the best shot of eventually having a Christian-free home. The evolution class sounds like a good sign. Congrats on the upcoming baby! We have 2 and are also going on 4 years of marriage. '

 

For us, the children are the biggest issue of all. I don't think this would be nearly as traumatic if we didn't have others to think about. It sounds like your wife is very open to raising thinking for themselves types of children even though she's a Christian. I think that's great!

 

I understand about the friends moving away. We are the ones who moved away from everybody, though. All our friends here are from the church and there's only one that I really hope to remain friends with when this blows over. Right now I'm in a weird spot. I get emails and phone calls for prayer requests from my "friends." I just can't tell them, yet. Anyway, it can get lonely without the support of close friends. I miss the socializing...going out for drinks, cook outs, etc.. We're always "fellowshipping" which is not the same thing and does nothing for me. I can't continue to keep this up for long! Anyway, I hope we can some friends that we can kick back and have a good time with. I hope you can too! Good luck!

 

fellowshipping. dont get me started. now i tell you what would be an interesting fellowshippin'...get a few couples together that are HD like ours, maybe a large bottle of vino, and have some discussions.

[HappyB4]

My wife and I have been married for nearly four years and are expecting our first child, which may complicate things a lot. But I was a deconvert before we met, and she has known that about me since we were dating. And somehow, she still managed to fall for me and marry me.

 

Religion has never been a big issue with us. Yeah, she was raised Southern Baptist, but she has always been far more interested in science and truth than even she realizes. She is currently taking an evolution class and is altering her religious views in ways she had before thought impossible. Will she ever give up religion? I don't know, but I find it highly unlikely as it is an emotional crutch for her, and she has not had an easy life. Sometimes it is just better to let her have the crutch and deny reality in ways I cannot.

 

Best of all for me is that she is very open-minded. She wants more to teach her children how to act and how to think than to teach them what to think, and that is my biggest agenda. I don't want brain-dead, mind-washed zombies for children. I want them to believe what they want, but only if they can support it with some kind of rational justifications.

 

All said, we have a fairly solid relationship, though it has taken some blows by close friends seeming to constantly move away and being extremely slow and difficult to replace, which has injured our social life. But we are getting on better than I thought I would with a religious person as a spouse, and that says a lot to me.

 

 

Hey LOR -

 

Lucky you! It sounds like you may have the best shot of eventually having a Christian-free home. The evolution class sounds like a good sign. Congrats on the upcoming baby! We have 2 and are also going on 4 years of marriage. '

 

For us, the children are the biggest issue of all. I don't think this would be nearly as traumatic if we didn't have others to think about. It sounds like your wife is very open to raising thinking for themselves types of children even though she's a Christian. I think that's great!

 

I understand about the friends moving away. We are the ones who moved away from everybody, though. All our friends here are from the church and there's only one that I really hope to remain friends with when this blows over. Right now I'm in a weird spot. I get emails and phone calls for prayer requests from my "friends." I just can't tell them, yet. Anyway, it can get lonely without the support of close friends. I miss the socializing...going out for drinks, cook outs, etc.. We're always "fellowshipping" which is not the same thing and does nothing for me. I can't continue to keep this up for long! Anyway, I hope we can some friends that we can kick back and have a good time with. I hope you can too! Good luck!

 

fellowshipping. dont get me started. now i tell you what would be an interesting fellowshippin'...get a few couples together that are HD like ours, maybe a large bottle of vino, and have some discussions.

 

Now that's the best idea I've heard so far....bring it on! Joking...

 

 

OOOOO man that would be SO ugly, though. I know how our religion conversations go...I can't imagine doubling or tripling that under one roof! I think some of us would be leaving with broken bones.