Question For Athiests.

[Guest Muna]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

[SWIM]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

 

 

Not all ex-christians are atheists btw. And many atheists don't rule out god, it's just that, well, there is NO proof that god exisits. So, (speaking for myself) I am open to the possiblity, and I feel there *might* be something out there along the lines of a "higher power" but who, what and where it is, if it is even there at all is supject to doubt.

 

I will not believe something without proof. However, I will form theories and speculations, these ARE suject to change and revision upon further data.

 

It's not a *stark* unbelief in many of us, it is simply an abscense of proof.

 

BTW did you mean to put this in the arena? It's a bit more formal an area then we ussually chit chat in.

[Monk]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

 

 

To me, it's simple...when most of the atheists you speak of (I'm almost in that category) get to the point you're talking about, it no longer seems worth it to give a god a second thought. The concept of god becomes more trouble than its worth to sustain.

 

Your's is the classical argument for Deism/Agnosticism. Some people just find it untenable. Some consider it intellectually dishonest to cling to the idea of a god in the face of so little evidence. Such is the occasional consequence of rationality.

[Ouroboros]

Moved to the Colosseum, because the Arena is reserved for official and moderated debates and not the ad hoc dicussions.

[godlessgrrl]

It isn't a Xian god/no god dichotomy. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that any god exists. Hence, I'm an atheist.

 

There are other theist options once one leaves Xianity. I was pagan for awhile, myself. I just reached a point where I wondered why any one deity made any more sense than another, since they all seemed ultimately like reflections of humanity.

[Monk]

It isn't a Xian god/no god dichotomy. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that any god exists. Hence, I'm an atheist.

 

There are other theist options once one leaves Xianity. I was pagan for awhile, myself. I just reached a point where I wondered why any one deity made any more sense than another, since they all seemed ultimately like reflections of humanity.

 

 

Thank you. That was a much better way to put it.

[Rev R]

There aren't any questions in that OP. *scratches head*

 

What I would like to know is why there is so much confusion?

 

In my case it's quite simple.

 

1. I have seen no evidence of the existence of any god.

2. I have no use for the concept of god.

 

If you still don't understand then I'm sorry, there is nothing I can do to help you.

[Sparrow]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

 

 

I appreciate you are not "knocking" athiests, but do yourself a favour and read the numeros pages here. Also, go read some scientific literature - there's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of documents available.

 

Secondly, you're a deist - you're belief is not, in any way, unique. There are numerous people who share the same belief as you.

 

I don't want to sound harsh, but you're just one of a number of people who come here and carry on the way you are doing.

 

If you want to stay, then super, then great, we have other deists and agnostics and athiests, etc here - the common thread is ex-christian.

 

Enjoy.

 

Spatz

[Kelli]

Muna, it is the belief of the atheist that there is no god, and that's their right. Simple as that. I personally don't hold to that as many others don't. I'm neither a christian nor an atheist. I started a thread on this awhile back and there's even an entire forum here on XC dedicated to non-christian theism: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showforum=30

 

XC isn't necessarily about atheism. It is exactly what it says it is: about being an ex-christian, no matter what form of belief (or unbelief) that brings you to.

[RedPillAddict]

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists.

Why? Where is the evidence for this?

 

There are many people that believe many different things. Doesn't make them correct.

Atheists tend to base their beliefs on evidence. There is no evidence for God, so we don't believe.

That doesn't mean that if evidence presented itself, we wouldn't change our minds.

[R. S. Martin]

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

 

So you think people who are different from you are odd. I happen to find that odd. That's why I'm not a fundamentalist. If you want to be respected around here, you'll be well advised to learn about humility ASAP. Calling other people odd, making yourself out to be something special, telling everybody else what to do--that doesn't go over here.

 

I think I remember you from last spring. You were horrible then and you're horrible now. Taking a break doesn't change you. You have to change yourself if you want to change. God won't do it for you, no matter how many gods or goddesses you believe in, or which ones.

[R. S. Martin]

it no longer seems worth it to give a god a second thought. The concept of god becomes more trouble than its worth to sustain.

 

Thanks, Monk, that expresses my sentiments exactly. I simply can't be bothered. I used all my energy. I looked so hard for so long. As I say in my avatar, I have yet to see the evidence. Forty seems to be the holy number. Moses was forty years old when called out of Egypt. He was another forty years older when called to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Then he led the Israelites for forty years. Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness. Then, according to some of the Gospels, he spent forty days on earth after the resurrection. Well, I gave Bible God fifty years to present evidence of his existence and he never materialized in any perceptible way. And I wasn't asking for much--just something that could not be explained any other way. Bible God can do that.

 

The fundy who asks me how should not be surprised not to get an answer. I am a mere mortal and cannot be expected to know the mind of God. According to the Bible, the thoughts of God are so much higher than the heavens are than the earth. Fundies claim left and right to know God's will and God's mind, etc. but that's just plain arrogant, unbiblical, and condemned by their own holy book.

[Dave]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

It doesn't matter which god the fact is that all gods are just the product of mythology. There is no reason to believe that such beings exist outside of their respective mythologies. It is not because the christian religion is so screwed up that I don't believe in gods. I'm not that shallow. The reason is as I have said, there is no reason to believe in gods.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

No, it doesn't make sense. What reason is there to believe a god of any kind exists?

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

That would be odd which is why any Atheist I know does not base their Atheism on the rejection of the christian religion or god.

[pitchu]

Muna,

 

No one is born with a god-concept.

 

If the god-concept had never been conceptualized it would be a non-issue.

 

It would be just like anything else nobody had ever thought up -- nobody would think about it.

 

The fact that there are great numbers of humans who feel the need for some concept of a god says much about what many humans think they'd like to believe. It says nothing about the legitimacy of their belief.

 

Great numbers of humans believe in the need for female genital mutilation, too, though no female was born with mutilated genitals. (And someone first/once had to conceptualize that!)

 

There is nothing intrinsically holy about things humans think up.

[Guest Muna]

I think a lot of people are taking offense at what I said when no offense was intended, as well as reading things into my post that were not there. I never said that athiests were wrong just because they don't believe in a god. I never said anyone was odd or called them names or anything. I did say that it seemed odd to me to jump to the conclusion that no Christian god = no diety. That was my whole question.

 

I totally get why someone would come to the conclusion that no diety exists, even if I disagree with that conclusion. What I don't get is the idea that it's the Christian god or no god that some athiests have. I've seen many statements here and other places that when people realized that the bible was wrong, they decided then and there that there was no god.

 

I think I remember you from last spring. You were horrible then and you're horrible now. Taking a break doesn't change you. You have to change yourself if you want to change. God won't do it for you, no matter how many gods or goddesses you believe in, or which ones.

 

You must be confusing me with someone else. Look at my post history. I have only a few posts here and I don't think anyone has found them horrible. I have had no other names here and I'm certainly not a troll, if that's what you're thinking.

 

I don't get why I'm being attacked for being a diest. Are athiests the only ex-Christians allowed here? Am I not allowed to ask a question to try to learn more about those who believe differently without being flamed?

[Mythra]

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists.

 

With all due respect, that's just dumb.

 

As long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists? C'mon.

 

He exists as WHAT? He exists as a belief - okay - I'll buy that.

 

He exists as a real, live entity? Belief is what creates spiritual beings?

 

No, sorry. Either some god or gods really exist or they don't. And what anyone believes has not one iota of effect on reality.

 

As for me, I'm convinced they are all man-made nonsense.

 

And the most pernicious of them all are the blood-god yahweh and the greco-roman son of a ghost.

[Guest Muna]

He exists as WHAT? He exists as a belief - okay - I'll buy that.

 

He exists as a real, live entity? Belief is what creates spiritual beings?

 

Like I said, I believe all gods are aspects of The God. So I believe that Yaweh is not a separate entity created by belief, just a different facet of The God. It's a common belief in Wicca.

[Mythra]

So, let me get this straight. You say that ALL gods are an aspect of The God. So is that true for all of the babylonian, persian, greek, egyptian and roman gods that have now been relegated to their rightful place in mythology? Those are all real too?

 

If so, this god has many many heads. Puts some of the hindu gods to shame.

[Mythra]

I don't get why I'm being attacked for being a diest.

 

I don't think you're being attacked at all - but you might want to learn how to spell deist.

 

Anyway - you're welcome here - but this is a site where ideas that have no support in fact or evidence get pounced on pretty hard.

 

But none of us will tell you that you're not allowed to think whatever you please.

[RedPillAddict]

I don't get why I'm being attacked for being a diest. Are athiests the only ex-Christians allowed here? Am I not allowed to ask a question to try to learn more about those who believe differently without being flamed?

 

I don't see you getting attacked. You asked a question and got your answers. You didn't answer my reply, though.

 

Why? Where is the evidence for this?

 

There are many people that believe many different things. Doesn't make them correct.

Atheists tend to base their beliefs on evidence. There is no evidence for God, so we don't believe.

That doesn't mean that if evidence presented itself, we wouldn't change our minds.

 

I am trying to understand where you got your beliefs from. Not everyone here is Atheist, but those who are are going to wonder why you believe what you do. It's not an attack. I just require evidence before forming a belief.

 

*edit* also, you titled your thread "Question for Atheists", so you are more than likely going to get the majority of your replies from...Atheists.

[Dave]

I think a lot of people are taking offense at what I said when no offense was intended, as well as reading things into my post that were not there. I never said that athiests were wrong just because they don't believe in a god. I never said anyone was odd or called them names or anything. I did say that it seemed odd to me to jump to the conclusion that no Christian god = no diety. That was my whole question.

Was that question answered? Did you learn anything from what has been posted here? Although most of those here have been christian at some time I don't believe that it is just the christian god that to them "= no diety." The unreasonableness of the christian religion is a part of it but it's the CONCEPT of a diety that they no longer believe in. It's not just the christian god, but all gods.

 

And all that "anger" you see in many comes from the years of lies that has been forced on them. It also comes from christians, no you, looking down on us and claiming the moral highground when we know they are neither moral nor our betters.

 

I totally get why someone would come to the conclusion that no diety exists, even if I disagree with that conclusion. What I don't get is the idea that it's the Christian god or no god that some athiests have. I've seen many statements here and other places that when people realized that the bible was wrong, they decided then and there that there was no god.

Again, it's not the christian god, it's all of them, all of the millions of gods humans have dreamed up.

 

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Henry Roberts, Historian (1901-71)

 

I don't get why I'm being attacked for being a diest. Are athiests the only ex-Christians allowed here? Am I not allowed to ask a question to try to learn more about those who believe differently without being flamed?

Attacks are common around here. People get emotional. We are as human as any other group. We've (at least I haven't) not claimed perfection. You got several nice answers. Concentrate on them but than also try to understand the anger that some here have.

 

How would you feel if some other religion was forcing their way into your schools, your government, your private life, and forcing their religion into where it is not wanted and does not belong.

 

I'm not saying that you are guilty of this, but it is a part of the daily lives of Atheists and we have every right to be angry about it.

[Legion]

Please relax Muna. I'm not out to get you.

[Mythra]

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess.

 

Okay - so let's talk about this a little. You think that "The God" and "The Goddess" are real.

 

Why?

 

Do you hear or see them? Or did you perhaps read a book that convinced you they were real? Or just what was it specifically that lead you to think that these entities exist? And where did they come from? And what are they exactly? Are they all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing? Well, of course they must be. They're gods. Are they just spirit-people or do they have bodies? They must have some kind of bodies if they're male and female. Did they create the world? If so, how? Are they big or little or, like the universe everywhere all at the same time? Do they look down on people and watch their every move? Do they judge the souls of the dead based on the lives they've previously lead? Do they comfort you in times of trouble? Provide guidance? Give you assurances of some kind of existence after your body ceases to function? Provide friendship and caring? How does the presence of these gods affect your life on a day to day basis?

 

Sorry. I got a little carried away. From an atheist's perspective, ideas such as these are beyond consideration as anything valid. It's actually quite tough to even discuss such things as though there was the remotest possibility that they're true.

[Asimov]

I’ve seen many (not all) atheists state that because their observations and science and history and whatever didn’t support Christianity, then they came to the conclusion that there isn’t a god at all. I don’t really understand why there are only two choices, Christian god or no god. I know of many people who have left Christianity and are now Deists or members of another faith, but don’t believe in the Christian god.

 

My beliefs are someone unique in that I believe all the gods are aspects of The God and all the goddesses are aspects of The Goddess. So I believe that as long as a god is honored and believed in, he exists. So I guess you could say I believe in Yaweh and choose not to worship him. Though I definitely don’t believe that I will be sent to damnation for not worshipping him. I hope that makes sense.

 

I’m not knocking atheists at all, or saying they’re wrong. It’s just odd to me that someone would make the conclusion that since the Christian religion isn’t true and the Christian god doesn’t exist, that there can’t be any god.

 

Uh, no atheist says that.

[Lightbearer]

God's existence goes against reality and existence itself. It's a contradictory and thus, a self-defeating concept all together. If the Christian God of Abraham is a sham and a false concept then it's pretty safe to rule out the other gods that came out of his cosmic split personality disorder and delirious schizophrenia.

 

If one God is false, then it's a safe bet to say that all of them can be equally false and seeing as how someone else already pointed it out, there isn't any evidence for any of them anyways.

 

So it's more then safe, it's perfectly reasonable to say that none of them exist at all and all of them have the same chances of not existing.