mlr72 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 How is blaspheming the Holy Spirit worse than this?!?! HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- The stepfather of a 2-year-old girl lost control and beat her to death because she wouldn't say "please" and "yes sir," an attorney for the girl's mother said Wednesday. A body found last month in Galveston Bay is believed to be that of the little girl, Riley Ann Sawyers, though DNA tests are pending. Her mother, Kimberly Dawn Trenor, and stepfather, Royce Clyde Zeigler II, were arrested Saturday. Trenor's attorney, Tommy Stickler Jr., also said Wednesday that Trenor is pregnant. According to court documents, Trenor, 19, told police she and her husband killed the girl in July and hid her body in a shed before dumping it in the bay. Stickler said Zeigler, 24, was overwhelmed by his sudden fatherhood and didn't know what behavior to expect from a toddler. Trenor moved with her daughter from Mentor, Ohio, to Texas in June to be with Zeigler, whom she met online. Zeigler wanted his wife to spank Riley with a belt when she failed to say things like "please" and "yes sir" or "no sir," Stickler said Wednesday. Zeigler didn't believe Trenor was doing it, however, because the 2-year-old's behavior wasn't changing. Watch Riley's grandmother recall "a very wonderful little girl" The fatal beating happened after Zeigler stayed home from work to make sure his wife was following his discipline plan, Stickler said. In her statement to Galveston authorities, Trenor said the girl was beaten with leather belts, had her head held underwater in a bathtub and then was thrown across a room, her head slamming into a tile floor. Although the affidavit said the couple abused Riley over a four- to six-hour period, Stickler said it wasn't a continuous event. Instead, Zeigler grew increasingly enraged as he spanked Riley and she kept forgetting to do things the way he wanted. "There was never an intention to beat Riley to death," he said. At one point, Trenor wanted to call an ambulance but Zeigler wouldn't let her, saying they would both be arrested if officials saw her injuries, Stickler said. Instead, Riley was given some over-the-counter pain medication. When Riley later stopped breathing, Zeigler performed CPR on her tiny body, Stickler said. Neal Davis III, Zeigler's attorney, said Trenor's story isn't believable. "She is placing all the blame on Royce, but I think that once the facts come to light, once the timeline's established and the evidence is combed through ... I think her credibility is gonna become a big issue," Davis said. Trenor and Ziegler were arrested after investigators spent weeks trying to identify the girl they dubbed "Baby Grace," whose body was found in a plastic box floating in Galveston Bay. Riley's paternal grandmother in Ohio had called police, thinking a sketch of the dead child might have been the granddaughter she hadn't seen in months. Trenor and Zeigler remained jailed Wednesday on charges of injury to a child and tampering with evidence. Bail was set at $350,000 each. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/28/child.remains.ap/index.html So, beating a child to death for such a minor incursion is forgivable, but dissing on the Holy Spirit isn't?? How can any Christian or even God himself give this an ok pass over the "unpardonable sin"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 How is blaspheming the Holy Spirit worse than this?!?! So, beating a child to death for such a minor incursion is forgivable, but dissing on the Holy Spirit isn't?? How can any Christian or even God himself give this an ok pass over the "unpardonable sin"?? Don't the precious bible say "spare the rod spoil the child"? Or was that from somewhere else? The reason why it's not worse to bible gawd is it didn't insult his precious spook and damage it's pride... Funny, had the guy not been so full of buybull he might not have even done this. I hate child beating assholes with a passion. Child beating xtians are even worse. This guy should be used in a Zombie Survival training camp as target practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 When I was a Christian, I understood that blaspheming the Holy Spirit had a pyschological effect that literally deleted one's desire and ability to do good. From that perspective, murder was a gross sin and seriously compromised one's status before God and possibly hardened the conscience beyond repair. However, it did not necessarily to delete all desire and ability to do good as did blaspheming the Holy Spirit. There was a remote possibility that the murderer would repent. Given that a person's heart must be seriously hardened with sin before that person ever commits murder, the chances of a murderer truly repenting are extremely slim, but they exist. Such was my reasoning as a Christian. For that reason, there was more hope for the murderer than for the one who blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Let me assure you that this kind of logical approach to theology is what brought about my deconversion. The Plan of Salvation does not stand up to this kind of scrutiny. I have since my deconversion seen the Blasphemy Challenge on a YouTube. I was impressed with the dignity and solemnity with which the young exChristian blasphemed the Holy Spirit. He did not resort to a raging tirade; it was a well-thought-out and well-worded rebuke, so to speak. He used King James language. No Christian under-going believer's baptism has ever taken his/her decision more seriously and with more clarity of thought and commitment that this man did his Blasphemy Challenge. The couple in the article you posted were raging maniacs in comparison. I do not think this young man in Blasphemy Challenge will ever be found abusing his kids, but rather that he will teach them to think critically and be compasionate to all creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiergirl24 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Don't the precious bible say "spare the rod spoil the child"? Or was that from somewhere else? The reason why it's not worse to bible gawd is it didn't insult his precious spook and damage it's pride... The saying "spare the rod and spoil the child" is a paraphrase of Proverbs 13:24- PR 13:24 Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them are diligent to discipline them. This verse has been used by child abusers and other forms of the brain-dead to justify beating children for a very long time. What those people did is revolting. They should be used for target practice! I agree that beating a child is absurd and horrific. But, I was spanked as a kid (mom had a spoon she would spank our butts with when we disobeyed and Dad would give us a swat when we mouthed off). There is a big difference between spanking and abusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Fuck the Holy Spirit! I love Jesus! I agree. Those "people" (and I use that term very loosely) should be used for target practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Don't the precious bible say "spare the rod spoil the child"? Or was that from somewhere else? The reason why it's not worse to bible gawd is it didn't insult his precious spook and damage it's pride... Funny, had the guy not been so full of buybull he might not have even done this. I hate child beating assholes with a passion. Child beating xtians are even worse. This guy should be used in a Zombie Survival training camp as target practice. And even in the NT in Romans 1:20-32 God still thinks that disobidient children and those that support them deserve death. Even if the NT God no longer directly commands to stone children, any God who thinks children deserve death no matter what is a terrible monster. And it's sick that they say this woman's story is unbelivable. I don't see how it's any less believable than any other horrific child abuse story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennywocky Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 What did this have to do with Christianity again? I missed any connection within the article itself. It just seems to be about someone with a foul temper and emotionally immature, with no parenting experience, who completely worked himself up into a homicidal rage and killed this poor girl. Or are people just using this news story to compare in a general sense to some of the punishments espoused by the Deuteronomical law? (Or was there some other thread talking about abusive parenting by Christians, and I just happened to miss it?) If we're going to vent, let's just diss these two sorry excuses for parents who did this to their daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 How is blaspheming the Holy Spirit worse than this?!?! Cos when you attribute the works of the holy spirit to the devil he gets pissy. 'Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlr72 Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 What did this have to do with Christianity again? I missed any connection within the article itself. Hi Jenny, I posted this article after I found it online because it forced me to ask a question: how two-faced is it for the Christian god to extend the opportunity to forgive the people who beat a child to death, but it's beyond forgiveness to speak out against the Holy Spirit. It's just unfathomable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I posted this article after I found it online because it forced me to ask a question: how two-faced is it for the Christian god to extend the opportunity to forgive the people who beat a child to death, but it's beyond forgiveness to speak out against the Holy Spirit. It's just unfathomable. Yeah - I made the connection. As in asking the question "what kind of a god is this" ? What kind of a god is this - who would establish a rule that the only thing a person can do for which no salvation is available - is to blaspheme the holy spirit. And how does the vile act of killing a little innocent child stack up (in the mind of god) against saying something bad about the holy spirit. And what kind of a god is it that would open the doors of heaven to a repentant baby-murderer, yet would slam them shut in the face of a person who honestly questions the christian faith - yet turns out to be mistaken. Do I have the correct general interpretation here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 I posted this article after I found it online because it forced me to ask a question: how two-faced is it for the Christian god to extend the opportunity to forgive the people who beat a child to death, but it's beyond forgiveness to speak out against the Holy Spirit. It's just unfathomable. Yeah - I made the connection. As in asking the question "what kind of a god is this" ? What kind of a god is this - who would establish a rule that the only thing a person can do for which no salvation is available - is to blaspheme the holy spirit. And how does the vile act of killing a little innocent child stack up (in the mind of god) against saying something bad about the holy spirit. And what kind of a god is it that would open the doors of heaven to a repentant baby-murderer, yet would slam them shut in the face of a person who honestly questions the christian faith - yet turns out to be mistaken. Do I have the correct general interpretation here? I have no idea if your interpretation is correct. All I know is that it's not the one I used to have. I thought to blaspheme the Holy Spirit meant to mock or make fun of the Holy Spirit. I refuse to believe that God would slam the door in the face of a person who honestly questions the Christian faith and happens to arrive at the wrong conclusion. That would not be just or righteous or merciful. The absolutely crazy thing I am obligated to accept is that for fundies there is no such thing as "honestly questioning the Christian faith." I never knew that; it's totally contrary to common sense. For them it's all a decision and/or choice. As though truth could be chosen! It's so DISGUSTING as the title of this thread says. Though I guess maybe that isn't what the thread takes its name from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Though I guess maybe that isn't what the thread takes its name from. No, Ruby. That's what I meant by "do I have the right interpretation". I meant - am I correctly understanding the OP - that the whole idea is disgusting - that the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit would be considered a worse offense to God than the murder of a little child. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Blake Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Kitty Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Fuck the Holy Spirit! And the dove he flew in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 According to Christianity, I blasphemed the Holy Spirit. One day I had a breakdown, and I felt my conscience disintegrate. Just saying words against the Holy Spirit is nothing. Believe me, there's nothing quite like what I experienced. I was off work for 8 months and suicidal a lot of the time. I still cannot work full time now. So that's how I see it. I mean, it's one thing to have a "hard heart", but if you have no conscience left you are truly beyond the pale. Jon. www.antichurch.org.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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