See Saw Christian....

[jchpiper]

I've meandered around here for a few days. Wondering when, if, where to post. I don't enjoy debates....had enough of them. Just me. Plus, probably the last thing I need is another forum....so I don't know how much I'll post or if I'd have any real input. But last week, when I saw the creative section here and someone had posted looking for agnostic or atheist poetry....I bit and posted over there.

 

I feel a little odd just posting poetry, and thought I should at least post more about me. But I wasn't sure where to post, seeing as I'm not an ex-christian. I'm more of a see-saw version. In fact I have a poem entitled "See Saw," about the dichotomy I go through. Since I don't have a "deconversion" story, I didn't want to post in that forum. I thought about your open forum....but decided Ex-Christian Life might be the better place. If for any reason, this is the wrong place please let me know. If it is inappropriate I understand if it is deleted or moved.

 

First, how I found this place. If you read my story below you will see I've been looking into Universalism since around March, 2007. This site was mentioned on a Universalism site and (due to my history) I thought this site sounded interesting. Plus one of my best friends is an ex-C, and I thought he'd enjoy meandering a bit. Thus a few months ago I first read a little here. Then last week a topic came up on an ex-JW site where I visit and I posted a link to this site. And that is when I found the creative forum, etc. (btw: I am not ex-JW. You can read below if you want to know more. )

 

Following is my story, a version which I have posted elsewhere. I just feel a little better introducing myself, especially if I decide to post more poetry or in another forum. Since this is an ex-Christian site, I will share my spiritual journey thus far......

 

Okay...here goes. Apologies for the long post.

 

**************************************************************************

 

My name is Carol. I am currently 48 years young and have been married for 23 years. We have two children; 19 and 17, and have always home/eclectic/un-schooled. I work distributing snack size art and making music with little people. I also enjoy poetry, and that is my main forum hobby.

 

The following was written in response for an introduction request at an online forum regarding members' spiritual journeys thus far. It was written in 2007 and updated recently in 2008.....always in process...of course :wink: :

 

********

Though much of my formative years draws a blank in my mind I have some lingering memories, including some regarding the spiritual aspect. I wasn't 'raised' in church though my family went to church a few times a year. I attended some sort of revival with a friend when I was maybe 10; I remember going up for the altar call. I recall seeing the movie about Nicky Cruise sometime in my preteen or teen years. I attended a Methodist confirmation, but to my recollection never completed the requirements.

 

I recall from about age 8 years old and up that I was fascinated with the supernatural reading books on UFOs, playing with Ouija boards, enjoying talk about witchcraft, and dabbling with astrology. Around 8th grade, I read the four gospels and concluded that Jesus Christ was the biggest egomaniac that ever walked. However, I did like the poetic flow of the gospel of John. In the Old Testament I read about a vengeful god who annihilated people. Of the folks I talked with about the Bible, no one could explain to me apparent contradictions. I could argue most Bible believers into a corner, and for some reason I enjoyed it. Understandably, I rejected the Bible as an ultimate authority, but thought it contained some truth alongside other religions.

 

I got heavily into psychedelic drugs at the age of 15. Being intrigued with the supernatural, I felt the trips on psychedelics connected me with the spiritual realm. During this experimental phase I 'overdosed' on datura stramonium (link: Datura Stramonium). That experience left a profound imprint on me of which I didn't come to realize until years later. I continued experimentation with various kinds of acid, LSD, MDA, etc. I would ingest some sort of chemical drug at least 4 to 5 times a week, often combining it with alcohol. Over the months I became more and more paranoid and withdrawn. The trips started turning bad on a regular basis and the feeling of tripping lingered even without having dropped any acid. Needless to say I had many thoughts of insanity. My saving thought was 'if I was insane I wouldn't know it.' I quit drugs all together about 9 months after the stramonium incident.

 

At that point I turned to Transcendental Meditation and got 100% involved, planning to attend the Maharishi Mahesh University in Iowa. After 1 year into TM, I met (my next) boyfriend (5 years older than I) and moved in with him the summer before my senior year of high school. He went to a Baptist Church and smoked dope and lived with me with all the 'benefits.' I wanted to please him so I decided I would try to believe the Baptist doctrine which was difficult for me, especially the hellfire stuff. We had wedding plans for a few weeks after I graduated from high school, but I broke off the engagement. I was spiritually hungry and felt our relationship was deterring my quest. I couldn't continue to pretend I believed in a god of damnation.

 

Shortly after the split from my fiance, I moved onto a farm with some hippie types who had moved to the North Carolina mountains from New York. I dabbled with TM (again), Ram Dass, yoga, and the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ. I was desperately hungry for spiritual truth. I went to visit one of my cousins with the intent purpose to visit a WICCA meeting. He ended up having to work so I ended up spending the day with my aunt with whom I attended a charismatic fellowship. I heard speaking in tongues for the first time. That day I was led into tongues and began to delve into the scripture, mainly the book of Acts and the following epistles. Upon return to the farm, I told all my yoga hippie friends that they didn't have to do all that meditation to be one with god; just believe on Jesus Christ and speak in tongues.

 

I began reading and rereading the Pauline epistles, mainly Ephesians through Colossians; I couldn't seem to get enough of Ephesians. I drove over an hour to go to church where I had been led into tongues, a Lutheran/Catholic charismatic mix. I was full of questions and wanted to understand the Bible, to be able to reconcile at least a majority of the contradictions. So I decided to attend college; I'd learn Hebrew and Greek and then I'd understand. I also had an interest in counseling and outreach work such as VISTA or The Peace Corps. I chose a college that had 'spirit-filled' connections, Montreat Anderson near Black Mtn., NC, in the heart of Billy Graham country.

 

I lasted only one semester at Montreat because while there I got involved with The Way International. The Way was able to answer, with relative satisfaction, my questions regarding many contradictions that plagued me. (link: The Way International)

 

Friends warned me that The Way was a cult. I considered their words and read about The Way in some cult books. It appeared to me that those who claimed The Way was a cult, based that conclusion mainly on the fact that The Way did not believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Until shortly after starting college I never realized that Christians believed that Jesus was god. I was stunned that anyone would think such a thing. Therefore, the main thrust of The Way being a cult because it was non-trinitarian didn't concern me.

 

Like with drugs and with TM, I got 100% involved with The Way beginning at age 18 in October, 1977. After dropping out of college after the first semester, I moved in with Way believers and landed a job in the laundry department at a hospital. At the first available outreach program I jumped on board: Summer Outreach the summer of 1978. I served as Word Over the World Ambassador from August 1978 - August 1979 and entered The Way's leadership training program,The Way Corps - a lifetime commitment to Christian service, in September, 1979. I spent time at three of the The Way 'root locals' in Kansas, Indiana, and Ohio. I coordinated fellowships at various levels for over 10 years.

 

I spent over 4 years in the Way Corps; however, I never graduated because twice I dropped my Way Corps commitment of 'lifetime service.' The shame I carried from those broken commitments proved to be detrimental in the ensuing years, resulting (at least in part) toward some self-destructive behavior. Still today I continue to carry some of that shame.

 

In October, 2005, I exited The Way after 28 years of involvement. I no longer believed certain Way doctrines and my eyes began to open to the exclusivity that The Way propounds. The organization had become abusive over a period of time, the most obvious years for me being in the latter 90's. Yet The Way overlooks the abuses, as if the offenses never occurred. That continues to bother me deeply. Looking back, my cutting ties with The Way had begun at least 8 years prior to my official exit. I stayed with The Way for my family and I left for my family and my own integrity. My husband and children cut allegiance from The Way within 5 to 6 months after me.

 

I wasn't aware of the many sexual abuse allegations and offenses against The Way until a year or so before I left. I was aware of a few allegations, but not the many. I wasn't aware of the abundance of abortions until after I left The Way. I too experienced an abortion while in The Way. I suppressed that experience, not dealing with it until 27 years later. Emotional suppression, not just because of The Way but also due to other life experiences, played a significant role in chronic illnesses that have plagued most of my adult years. That story is here: Beyond Survival...

 

Yet, I lived some very good years in The Way often filled with rich experiences and wonderful people. For that I will always be thankful. Had I not joined The Way, I would have most likely ended up in some other group, possibly more controlling.

 

Upon exiting from The Way, I visited a few churches but nothing resonated. I dabbled with some ex-Way splinter groups, one which was very helpful, but I was(am) hyper-sensitive to any sort of group think. I've considered that maybe there is no god. I've also been considering various schools of thought regarding different beliefs. As of early 2008, I am coming to terms with the reality that I think I no longer hold the belief that the scriptures as originally given are infallible not are they the inerrant 'Word of God.' In March, 2007, I was led to look at Christian Universalism. If I decide to continue with certain Christian tenets, these will probably be along the lines of Christian Universalism.

(link: Christian Universalism)

 

I don't know where my journey will lead from here, yet I want to have a fervent hope that there is a loving creator and that one day all wrongs will be made right. I am willing to be wrong; yet I know that hope has served me well and enriched my life thus far.

 

**********************************

 

So for what it is worth....... there it is.

 

~carol

 

*********************

edit note: After reading Brother Jeff's posted link on this thread: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=21919 , I decided to update my story, so I've entered the updated version...knowing it may never be read. But it was a good exercise for me.

[jchpiper]

Oh...and thanks...

 

(where is the edit button? )

[mwc]

Oh...and thanks...

 

(where is the edit button? )

Keep posting...you'll get it (I forget what the magic number is though).

 

mwc

[Sparrow]

Hi, and welcome to the site.

 

Spatz

[ExConfusedChristian]

I'm new too - welcome and thanks for sharing your story

[jchpiper]

Well...thanks ya'll. I'm surprised anyone actually read all that. lol

 

I do appreciate it.

 

Exconfused, I read some of your story. My thoughts are with you...

[Antlerman]

Thanks for sharing your story. It seems Sojourner's link at Universalist forum has brought a number of visitors here. I see a number of things in the more liberal incarnation of Universalism that is appealing, primarily in that it is inclusive of humanity here and now, and it approaches sacred texts in a far more symbolic manner than the traditional Christian Evangelical does in their literalist approach. To me that becomes a system of language to talk about something in the human experience that transcends borders of theologies.

 

I recently saw some things of John Shelby Sponge, and from what I saw it expresses the things I see coming more from the non-theistic side of things. To me it's all languages we use to talk to ourselves and others, but the underlying message is a shared one in all humans. It's more a matter of finding one system of language that works for your personality and experiences. Some people’s feet need a softer tennis shoe, others need a firmer hiking boot, so to speak. But it's all about walking so long as the footwear doesn’t become a symbol of something in itself that leads to trampling on others footwear. At which point you’re no longer walking anyplace and are working against those who are. And that describes the religious fundamentalist - the religious priests that worship tradition over God.

 

Just a little rambling this morning.

[sojourner]

Hey jchpiper,

 

Good to see you

 

Hey Antlerman,

 

Loved the post, I am seeing this more and more and its blowing my mind at how freeing it is! It really is all about languages. Wow

 

Sojourner

 

Forgot to say, I wish I could take credit for jchpiper being here but she has been here reading for a while now. She is a wonderful person.

[jchpiper]

Thank ee Burnedout, Antlerman, and Sojourner.

 

To me it's all languages we use to talk to ourselves and others, but the underlying message is a shared one in all humans. It's more a matter of finding one system of language that works for your personality and experiences. Some people’s feet need a softer tennis shoe, others need a firmer hiking boot, so to speak. But it's all about walking so long as the footwear doesn’t become a symbol of something in itself that leads to trampling on others footwear. At which point you’re no longer walking anyplace and are working against those who are. And that describes the religious fundamentalist - the religious priests that worship tradition over God.

 

Just a little rambling this morning.

 

Well, that is a beautiful ramble.

 

I think of communication with what you rambled. Communication goes beyond or beneath words. I realize you stated language, which is a part of communication. (hmmm....I of course think of a certain poem... ) Communication involves all our senses, but not all at the same time....necessarily.

 

With current research in the field of communication, I think science of the not-too-distant future will not limit man to 5 senses. I'm not talking about "psychic" stuff, but a real vibrational/energetic sense....on a physiological level.

 

 

Well ... that was a tangent. *roll eyes* I excel at tangents.

 

 

(Hey!!! The "edit" button appeared. I must have graduated. lol Now I understand the comment mwc made about the number. )

[Antlerman]

Thank ee Burnedout, Antlerman, and Sojourner.

 

To me it's all languages we use to talk to ourselves and others, but the underlying message is a shared one in all humans. It's more a matter of finding one system of language that works for your personality and experiences. Some people’s feet need a softer tennis shoe, others need a firmer hiking boot, so to speak. But it's all about walking so long as the footwear doesn’t become a symbol of something in itself that leads to trampling on others footwear. At which point you’re no longer walking anyplace and are working against those who are. And that describes the religious fundamentalist - the religious priests that worship tradition over God.

 

Just a little rambling this morning.

 

Well, that is a beautiful ramble.

 

I think of communication with what you rambled. Communication goes beyond or beneath words. I realize you stated language, which is a part of communication. (hmmm....I of course think of a certain poem... ) Communication involves all our senses, but not all at the same time....necessarily.

 

With current research in the field of communication, I think science of the not-too-distant future will not limit man to 5 senses. I'm not talking about "psychic" stuff, but a real vibrational/energetic sense....on a physiological level.

 

 

Well ... that was a tangent. *roll eyes* I excel at tangents.

 

 

(Hey!!! The "edit" button appeared. I must have graduated. lol Now I understand the comment mwc made about the number. )

I started this line of thought almost a year ago with this thread here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=15020&hl= (I don't know why it takes old posts and changes the quotation marks to square boxes - I should ask a mod here if they know why). But I tend to use the term language in the sense you mean of communication. It's in this sense that languages, be it myth, or poetry, or music, or science, etc shapes our perceptions of reality and expresses our relationship and response to them by creating a framework for our minds and spirits to connect to it.

 

I think it's getting time for me to take my thoughts of the last year on this subject and post a new version of the topic. I've tired of the debate circuit I've spent all my time on over in the Arena, even though it has been a fruitful experience for me. (Though I doubt that forum here has seen the last of me - just for now though). Let me think about it. This is a much less draining thing for me to spend time on than debate.

 

P.S. it's great to have you here.

[jchpiper]

I'll have to take some time to read the link.

 

Communication is a fascinating field to me, especially non-local and non-verbal and vibrational communication. I might jump in, if you start a thread.

 

Shoot, the last thing I need is another forum to get addicted to. My internet life has become problematic. *roll eyes*

 

Thanks Antlerman.