How Much Shit That You Rant About Today, Did You Do As A Fundie?

[Kelli]

I have thought about this a lot in recent days. As a fundy I held lots of beliefs that today I see as complete dogma and tend to get angry about sometimes.

 

Take for example, the fact that I was quite homophobic and transphobic as a fundy. Pretty ironic, I think. Many times I got angry with myself and angry at God for not "fixing whatever was wrong with me" but was fairly vocal on the outside, against such things.

 

I took the Bible literally, believed in Creation, thought atheists were stupid, and I'm sure could probably write a book about all the ignorant things I said and did that I can't even remember anymore, if I could remember them...

 

So what sort of things did you do and say as a Christian that make you angry when you see others do them today? Honestly...

[The-Captain]

Well it would be a long list indeed....

 

Pretty much everything silly fundies routinely get chewed out for, I can see my self saying or at least thinking before.

 

But thats dogma for you ,even if I was uneasy with it I still forced myself to regard it as true even if I couldnt always practice it.

(I mostly say that in reference to having to think like a misogynistic homophobe as prescribed by xianity.)

[GraphicsGuy]

The un-budging arrogance. Honestly, I was a complete asshole during my "high" times. I literally hate who I was and how I acted during those times.

 

I figured God was shaping me into some kind of prophet that was going to bring judgement to the church. I was harder in my judgements of believers than non-believers. Still, I thought I was above non-believers...they were unenlightened and blinded...yet I believed that the Bible instructed us to judge believers, not unbelievers.

 

I had my own personal interpretation of Revelation that I preached to anyone that would listen. The literalism of the "Left Behind" viewpoint was garbage (at least I had that much brains), but I still believed in a rapture based on Paul's writings. Stupid.

 

The talking to God I did in my head that was driving me insane.

 

Believed the OT was basically a spiritual metaphor for the NT.

 

Believed that God made the universe "old" when he created it. All the evidence for evolution and such was planted to encourage "faith" rather than having proof.

 

Caught up in the emotionalism of praise and worship..."Vineyard movement" type of stuff...eventually got disgruntled with that at least.

 

Gees, I could probably go on and on...

[Deva]

This is really quite embarrassing to remember. I recall around 1990 while I was living with my parents agreeing with some fundies that were visiting the house who were saying "There is no such thing as situation ethics." In other words I was buying into their idea that Biblical morality was true for all time. How stupid of me.

 

I thought there was something mentally wrong with atheists.

 

I thought the proper thing for all women to do was to get married and that ideally there would be no sex before marriage.

 

Then there was the homophobic attitude which I carried around for a few more years. Now it makes me cringe to think how I viewed gays as sinners and/or defective. Yes, I was in many ways a true fundie. Seems like a different person. At least I was too shy to preach these ideas to others. I always felt guilty that I was unable to "witness." It made me doubt my salvation. I guess shyness was in my case a saving grace.

[Amethyst]

To be honest, I really haven't been uber fundy since I was a kid, but I probably did all of it because I was learning from the morons around me at the time. I did cling to the idea of "no sex before marriage" for years though.

[bellsybop]

I used to think that gays were nasty, perverts.

I used to think that inter-racial dating was repulsive.

 

And I detest the idea that I was so closed minded.

My daughter now dates a black boy in her school, with our blessings. Pretty good boy at that.

[godlessgrrl]

Oh, man. I did and said all kinds of things that I'm not proud of when I was a fundiegelical. Mostly it was a matter of overall attitude.

 

I was a Biblical literalist and inerrantist. I didn't "believe" in evolution and I thought there was only one "correct" way of interpreting the Bible. At one point I was also partly a YEC, though I didn't think the earth was only 6000 years old. It's more like I didn't think it was as old as geologists said so. I can remember a little kid I babysat for getting very upset with me one day when she was trying to tell me about this really cool visit to a local dinosaur museum, and I told her that dating methods weren't reliable and the age of various fossils was "only a theory". The poor kid got very frustrated with me, and I don't blame her for a minute. Fortunately she's smarter than I was at the time, and I don't think I did any lasting damage, but still - I was a total fucking douchebag right at that moment. No question.

 

I was also a douchebag when it came to "debating" Biblical Truth™. I used all the same stupid apologetics arguments and bad logic employed by fundies on message fora to this day. Special pleading, appeals to popularity, appeals to incredulity, God of the gaps - you name it, I used it, all with that cheery little "I have God on my side so I know better than you!" passive-aggressive smile on my face. I can't think of how many arguments I "won" by falling back on "God did it, and that's the way it is whether you like it or not!"

 

I had a vague sense that homosexuality was "wrong", but frankly, I really didn't know much about it until I was in my early 20's. I believed in a real devil, and that he was really in the world and really out to get believers. I thought that roleplaying games were gateways to satanic activity, and rebuked a bunch of my friends for wanting to get a game going. Probably the worst of it all was the intense shame and guilt I felt about sex and my sexuality, though. I was wracked by guilt for some of the radical ideas that still plagued my head about sex and women's roles - stuff like gender equality (I couldn't reconcile it with the Biblically-mandated submissiveness of women), nonmarital sex, cohabitation, jilling off... you name it.

 

I was at my intolerant worst when I was in my late teens, still stuck at home. My alcoholic biomother had had a religions experience and quit drinking, and had swapped vodka for Jesus; otherwise, nothing really changed. She was still as abusive and intense as she'd always been, and she still thought I was nothing but trouble. I was right in the thick of her indoctrination. Sometimes I think that hey, I was 16, maybe I was old enough to figure out my beliefs on my own; but then, I was being abused daily, and isolation was one of my biomother's tactics. I doubt I could've escaped, even into the recesses of my own mind.

 

The truth is, though, that really - through all my teen years, when I think about it - a lot of what I was believing left a very uncomfortable, "this is not right" feeling in the pit of my stomach. A lot of the time I have to wonder if I was a fundy because it was just safer for me to be one at the time. I mean, I converted after I was sexually assaulted and had been punished for it, so there was definitely this sense that I had transgressed in a big way, plus I was living with my biomother, who didn't appreciate it when I didn't act like a little carbon copy of her. Becoming a fundy was, I suppose, a way of gaining some kind of redemption from my alleged "sin", and of becoming more like someone my biomother could actually tolerate.

 

It all makes me wonder where the lines between belief and choice and um... lack-of-choice are really drawn. I don't remember any of the above being conscious; it wasn't until I looked back and was able to see how being a fundy served me - protected me, even - that I could realize that it all never really sat right.

 

But I'm sort of digressing.

 

I was a passive-aggressive, neurotic douchebag when I was a fundy. That pretty much sums it all up right there.

[Mandatory Chaos]

There are many things, but one thing particularly comes to mind for me.

 

I used to pray that god would bring tragedy and hardship to my cousins so that they might find him. Of course it was easy for me as a christian to just wish hardship on someone else as long as it was for "their own good". And of course me being the upright christian soldier that I was, made me immune from such pain in my own life.

 

It makes me sick to remember my old thought processes.

[Rhia]

I did it all, and with much shame looking back on it.

 

I was homophobic, scared of atheists, and refused to associate with anything related to "witchcraft".

 

I spoke in tongues, tried to be a prophet, tried to be a Messianic Jew, wanted to be a missionary to Israel, and wanted to die as a martyr.

 

I wanted my adoptive mom to "arrange" a courtship/marriage for me, because I believed that marriages were arranged by God through the girl's parents - but my only flaw was my fear of being told to submit as a wife. I wanted my first kiss to be at the alter, and I kept a box under my bed (box since burnt to a fiery crisp) where I kept a marked-up bible, and anonymous letters written journal-style, meant to be given to my "future husband" on my wedding night.

 

I tried to save all my friends, and even lost a few in my then insanity, as I look back at one time in my life and can remember telling people that I'd rather kill them myself if it meant they'd go to heaven than to allow them to be promiscuous.

 

This is just a taste of what I did - I don't even want to go through the REALLY embarrassing stuff.

[R. S. Martin]

Gwen, thanks for sharing your story. I never knew this much about you. Probably not so much because you didn't say it but because it didn't stick to my brain.

 

It all makes me wonder where the lines between belief and choice and um... lack-of-choice are really drawn. I don't remember any of the above being conscious; it wasn't until I looked back and was able to see how being a fundy served me - protected me, even - that I could realize that it all never really sat right.

 

Sounds like choice was about as nonexistent for you as it was for me.

 

Regarding the question of this thread: Little or no respect for self and others. The person is of secondary importance to righteousness as dictated by God, i.e. religion.

 

After my breakdown in 1982, this began to change because I realized that I was just as bad as the people who were gossiped about in the community. My breakdown was caused by emotional stress but manifested with being unable to sleep and feeling physically ill. The feeling of physical illness is gone but the insomnia and related problems got much worse in the following years. My life has developed around these problems.

 

When I discovered books on self-esteem I saw light at the end of the tunnel. I think I read all the books my public library had on hand on the topic at the time. I analyzed myself and everyone I knew. Then I was introduced to Myers-Briggs and read everything on it that I could lay hands on. It gave me another tool for self-analysis and for analyzing my family and everyone I knew. I was beginning to get a handle on why I was feeling so unhappy. Perhaps the biggest thing I got out of it all was that it wasn't all my fault, as my family would have me believe.

 

Eventually, this led to university, where for the first time in my life I was accepted and respected by an entire community for who I was; my questions and ideas were welcomed and appreciated instead of condemned. I began to learn about self-respect. I took social work, sociology, religious studies, anthropology, theology--in short, I learned about other people, what they believe, and how they live. On forums like this I learned first-hand stories about people's personal life struggles, all of which fitted in with what I learned in school and about humanity in my community. The more I learn about other people, their circumstances, and what brings them to where they are, the more I can respect them.

 

Here's a rough timeline:

 

1982: breakdown

1985-1994: some positive experiences with real life people, read much about self-esteem; did much self-analysis

Christmas 1994: was given a book on Myers-Briggs; much analysis of self and others, esp. family

Fall 1995: located Myers-Briggs interest group; met with them for several years; met a counselor whom I saw for a while; he was a university prof; this didn't work out so I looked up another counselor who taught at the other university; that didn't work out either but I got information on applying to his university.

May 1998: started first university course; kept it a strict secret from the community; told my parents and a few siblings.

Aug. 1999: "came out of the closet" about my education; community disapproved so strongly that I felt a need to leave; worst ever experience of my life; when I got off the phone from talking with a modern Mennonite and planning to go to church with her the next Sunday I had a "new birth" experience, which tided me over the extremely rough persecution.

Sept. 2006: official deconversion; I'd never really known for sure if God existed; I'd never understood how the plan of salvation was supposed to work; I'd never thought of myself as a sinner; most certainly I never felt like I was saved by the shed blood of Christ; I trusted I'd get these insights when I got older, like I was promised at the time of my baptism but it didn't happen. Finally I concluded that if there were answers I would have found them and that god probably didn't exist; I looked into paganism; Christians happened to find out about this and kicked me out so I assumed I had deconverted. Not that my beliefs had changed all that much. I didn't have many beliefs to lose or change but they judged that I had been a good Christian up till that time. Funny how they judge people by outward signs such as church attendance and platitudes and dress.

 

Those are probably the things I rant about most in Christians; I really don't keep track. Depends how they treat me/us, what they bring to the table or battle. I think if they would only stop trying to be so good and just be who they are, then they'd be a lot happier and have much less need to preach to us. I think that way because that's what happened to me. When I stopped trying to be so good and had more empathy for others (which started back in about 1982 shortly after my breakdown) the pressure started to let up. I emphasize that it just started because I had a loooonnngggg way to go. I'm still working on it.

[ogilvy]

yes theres a lot for me to be embarassed about too. not only embarassed, but i feel very bad about some of the things i did as fundementalist, like making my kids do home school. and i taught religious education in primary school for a few years. sometimes i was not completely honest in putting something across as fact to back up a bible doctrine. thats how i know that a lot of christians do it, because i recognize the b/s. now i get irritated when christians feed me the same stuff i fed others re why is God so cruel, if he's really a loving God? answer, becaause he HAD to let us have free will. but where in the bible does it say that was his reason for not preventing anyone from going to hell, or suffering horrible things. i know for a fact that the majority of christians wont face difficult questions and doubts, and this is at the expense of honesty.

at least i wasnt homophobic. well i was at first, but then i got to thinking that i didnt hate them at all, or think they were wicked people. the ones i'd come across had appealed to me. some of the things i was meant to think, i didnt think. like i dont see anything wrong with euthanasia. i would be happy to be 'euthanasied' rather than be in pain for a lifetime.

 

i think the worst things i did were in restrictions i placed on my kids, believing that if i was going to follow the bible, i should follow it properly. thats logical, but in the last few months i have, to my own surprise, come to seriously think the bible is not God's word, and everything i've believed and lived by for 20 yrs was based on somehting which is not correct. its a strange situation to be in. it doesnt make sense to me.

[godlessgrrl]

Gwen, thanks for sharing your story. I never knew this much about you. Probably not so much because you didn't say it but because it didn't stick to my brain.

 

Thanks. I actually don't share that often about the details; they're too embarrassing. I really was an asshat back then.

 

I think you're right. Neither of us really had any real choice in the matter. I suppose that makes sense, given that we both seem to come from very authoritarian childhoods. If I'd been given as much freedom as I was assigned blame and responsibility, it would've been a miracle.

[SWIM]

Fortunately I was never a "fundy", just a mild, don't-think-about-it-much xtian. So, not anything that I can recall...

[GraphicsGuy]

Fortunately I was never a "fundy", just a mild, don't-think-about-it-much xtian. So, not anything that I can recall...

 

Heathen bastard!

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

[The-Captain]

Fortunately I was never a "fundy", just a mild, don't-think-about-it-much xtian. So, not anything that I can recall...

 

Heathen bastard!

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

Lucky bastard!

 

[GraphicsGuy]

Same thing...

[The-Captain]

Same thing...

 

[hereticzero]

I was a super Christian and preached all the crap you see on the internet forums and television for Christians: preached against homosexuals, nonChristian politicians, pagans and heathens beware! I've spent the last two or three years trying to make up for that. Jesus never gave me a clear conscience about what I was suppose to teach. In the back of my mind I knew it all had to be phoney but I could not sort out what was good from what I was taught.

 

It is all circular thinking with xtians and the more a person tells them they are wrong, the more the xtian believes he is suffering for christ. A cult member just has to figure stuff out on their own. I had to learn on my own. Fortunately, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell helped clarify a few things on 9-11 that got me started on my deconversion--they blamed homosexuals, feminists and everyone else except terrorists for the bombings. That was pretty much when I knew the religion was bullshit when people were applauding these assholes as speakers of the christian church, how else do they get their money unless a lot of people believe what they believe and send them money for their rants? Then there was the church that protested at every military funeral since the war started. And Christians praised them as well. It proved to me that the religion is full of shit and always will be. Then there are the Obama e-mails ranting about him ... God, they never quit!

[twincats]

Fortunately I was never a "fundy", just a mild, don't-think-about-it-much xtian. So, not anything that I can recall...

 

Me, too. Pretty much.

 

I used to harbor thoughts of pity toward those who weren't "saved" and thought that John Lennon's song "Imagine" was borderline blasphemy, but never thought to do anything about it. But I always did have a problem with evangelism and proselytizing.

 

My church never had anything to say about homosexuality back when I was still attending (going on 14 years now, so what they do now, I don't pretend to know.)

[R. S. Martin]

Gwen, thanks for sharing your story. I never knew this much about you. Probably not so much because you didn't say it but because it didn't stick to my brain.

 

Thanks. I actually don't share that often about the details; they're too embarrassing. I really was an asshat back then.

 

I think you're right. Neither of us really had any real choice in the matter. I suppose that makes sense, given that we both seem to come from very authoritarian childhoods. If I'd been given as much freedom as I was assigned blame and responsibility, it would've been a miracle.

 

This really got to me:

 

I was sexually assaulted and had been punished for it

 

That is the "blame the victim" syndrome. I was never sexually assaulted but I was target for many and many a "blame the victim" game. It's lots easier--and safer--to assume we really are to blame than that we are the victims of unjust behaviour. If we are to blame, then hey! all we have to do to solve the problem is change ourselves and we have control over that, so presto! life is all good. And if it doesn't work it's because we didn't do it right. It's still our fault so all we have to do is figure it out.

 

Finding out that my life's problems were not all my fault was a razor sharp two-edged sword. On one edge was the enormous relief that I wasn't a thoroughly bad person. On the other edge, I was nearly unable to deal with the helplessness of not being in control of the situation the next time someone failed me. I have since then developed strategies but was it ever a challenge!