My "coming Out" Letter

[electech98]

Hi everyone,

 

I think I've finished the last draft of the "coming out" letter I've been working on for the past several weeks, so I'm going to put it up here for you to take a look at and comment on if you think it needs some works, etc. ANY suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

By the way, I took out some of the more "preachy" parts because I didn't want to get into specific examples or whatever just yet. I figure that stuff will come later on down the line. I don't need to write a whole book quite yet...

 

This letter would go up on my blog and linked from my Facebook page once I've talked to my wife and maybe a few other close people. Sorry about some of the formatting, this is being copied and pasted from a Google Docs document.

 

Anyway, here you go:

 

Hello there. This is to my dear family, dear friends, and those who happen to stop by from other roads on the super information highway.

 

I have not touched this blog for almost 3 years, as you can tell. Despite its neglect, I am returning to it once more for a very important reason: I must declare a foundational shift in what I consider to be one of the very greatest “things” that has defined “me” as a person for most of my 31-year existence.

 

There is no real benefit to delaying this announcement any further. I can see that delaying it any more may only serve to hurt rather than help. I say this because I do believe time heals most wounds, and I desire the healing to begin sooner than later.

 

Before the next paragraph, in which I reveal this foundational shift, I must say that the reason I am making this information known publicly is because of how ingrained and important this certain “thing” was in my life. It was so ingrained in me that most of my friendships are generally based around this thing. Most of my family and I (used to) share this thing in common. Even one of the most important relationships I have, the one with my wife, was based on and centered around this thing. And with this thing now having ceased to be in my own life, I must make it known first of all that I am still “me”, and I heartily wish for all my friendships and relationships to continue despite this one thing we no longer have in common. I am not willing that anyone should be pushed away by my declaration, and it is no intent of mine to purposefully drive a wedge between you and me. I still love many of you (I may not know some readers of this blog, so I honestly could not say I loved ALL of you, unfortunately <smile>), and I seek not to change that. But, I cannot continue to be dishonest with those around me or with myself. I must declare in truth what I have concluded within myself months ago, even though it may change my relationships dramatically. Despite that risk, I continue to emphasize my hope that those relationships would ultimately be changed for the better in the end. With all of that said, and without any more delay, here is what I need to say:

 

I no longer have faith in the Christian God, or any other particular god for that matter. I do not believe in any god. In that sense, I am an “atheist”.

 

Please understand something: I am not rejecting you, dear reader. I am not denying that a huge number of good people of all walks of life have faith in particular gods of their own choosing. Many of the greatest men and women who have ever lived had faith in various gods throughout their lifetime. I do not reject you or those people. I am only declaring that I no longer lay claim to the Christian faith.

 

Half a year ago and any time before that, I never would have thought those particular words would ever issue forth from my mouth or from my fingertips onto the blog you are now reading. I don’t blame you if you may be totally shocked, stunned, angry, mystified, or just plain offended that I would reject Christianity. I felt the same way in the past when I would learn that some dear people I knew, a few who were close to me at certain periods of my life, eventually transitioned from Christianity to non-belief. I know how hard this is to have someone close to you, someone trusted, someone who may have once been a standard of the very faith you profess, all of a sudden reject that faith outright. I also know how easy it is to abandon a friendship with such a person...I did that to some of those friendships myself. And it is with that understanding that I have had to give myself plenty of time to think about the consequences of making this move and exposing myself as an atheist. This has the potential to ruin many relationships with friends and family. The consequences of this are far-reaching and very personal. In the end, though, I have to be true to myself and true to you, even though it may hurt more right now. I believe everyone goes through transitions in life that are hard, hurtful, and confusing. But those are the times to be honest and straightforward, and those are the times to hopefully look forward to relationships and friendships that are even stronger than before.

 

You may be wondering how long I have considered myself an atheist, and why. To be honest, I don’t have an exact date of “deconversion”, but I believe it was sometime in December of 2011 that the months and months of reading and studying and thinking and yes, even praying, culminated into a conscious decision that I did not believe the Bible (the 66 books of the Christian Bible) to be the inspired, infallible, inerrant “Word of God” anymore, and thus could not continue to have faith in the claims of Christianity. As a Christian, I had rejected other religions (Mormonism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Scientology, etc.) based on evidence, reason, logic, theological implications, problems with the founding documents (such as errors, contradictions, and so on), etc. I now see that I was employing a double-standard of sorts, because I never turned that criticism onto the Christian faith itself until a few years ago. This was during a time that I reconnected with one of my former Los Angeles friends on Facebook. He was a strong, Reformed (Calvinistic) Christian when I met him in the fall of 1998. I had gotten myself involved in a “Christian” cult of sorts barely a month after moving to LA in the summer of 1998. During one our evangelistic witnessing sessions on the campus of Cal Poly Pomona, I tried to convert him to our “One and Only True Church”, but he already knew all about us and he hit back with questions about the Church, the leaders, etc. I dismissed him at first, but his questions ultimately got me thinking about the kind of group I was involved with. With his encouragement and help over time, I finally left that cult in the summer of 1999, and I went to live with him for a while because I was currently living in a household full of members of the cult (I had to move out on the sly to avoid a big confrontation). When I was living with him, he helped me come to a more Reformed (Calvinistic) understanding of the Christian faith. I then moved back up to Bakersfield in the fall of 1999 to get back on solid footing financially (by the way, extreme “Thanks” go to my mom and sister for taking me in, and to both my mom and dad for understanding and being patient with me all through that ordeal!), but my friend and I lost contact over the years due to distance. In 2001 I joined a Reformed Christian church here in Bakersfield and have been a member of the same church ever since. It is where my wife and I met and married, and where all of my children have been baptized.

 

Anyway, as I mentioned before, my friend and I reconnected on Facebook a few years ago, but something was terribly wrong: I noticed his Facebook info page listed his religion as “Atheist”! Shocked and dismayed, I engaged him in conversation regarding his rejection of Christianity, and we eventually exchanged book and internet references and other resources for each other to look at. In the beginning of this conversation, I resisted examining Christianity in light of any criticisms surrounding it. Criticisms would be merely glanced over or automatically discarded if I even knew there was someone else out there with a rebuttal to the criticism. That is what emotional investment does to many areas of life for most of us: we tend to build up materials and sources in support of our prior emotional investments and almost always automatically reject ideas that are contrary to those investments.

 

Over time, however, my presuppositions (what I “supposed” before thinking about anything else) began to change from “The Christian Bible is the inerrant, infallible, inspired Word of God” to “Truth is truth no matter where it leads, and I can be wrong about ANY of my beliefs”. Thus, it was when I started applying the same criteria of critical examination onto my own faith (Christianity), the same criteria that I had previously applied to all other religions, that it all started to crumble around me.

 

I turned to studying the individual texts of the Bible; for instance, I looked at the history and sources for the different documents in the Bible, ancient pre-Biblical paganistic influences on the various famous Bible stories (like the Creation, the Great Flood, and many characteristics of the Messiah story), the errors of the documents (such as copyist errors, archaeological errors, cosmological errors, historical errors, etc.), and so on. I also started really paying attention to the internal issues and their theological implications, as well as the inconsistencies and contradictions when it comes to what the Bible says about very important topics (for instance, how a man is justified before God). And at some point along the way, in December of 2011, I finally had to admit to myself that I could no longer consciously and freely continue in a belief system that had also failed under the same criticisms as the other religions I had rejected previously. I could no longer declare any rational basis for believing that the books we have in the Bible have any semblance of infallibility (since it is not without errors, wrong views about the world, cosmology, etc.), inerrancy (because errors DO exist in the Bible both within and without: from errors of history, archaeology, basic sciences, geography, genealogies, comparative statistics, prophecies, and so on, to errors in copying the documents, errors in translations, errors in authorship, etc.), or theistic inspiration. From that point on, I could not fool myself into believing even if I wanted to. I’m sure you’ve heard the saying along the lines of, “I can’t make my heart believe what my head cannot”, and hopefully you can see where I’m coming from.

 

It makes a great deal of sense to me now why most of us believe what we do, and why I believed what I did. It is mostly societal influence (many times based on geography, or where you happen to be born), and the fact that by nature, as a survival instinct, we tend to accept as 100% reality whatever our parents tell us about the world when we’re young. For instance: if you are born in India, you are likely to be raised as a Hindu and be convinced of its truth by your parents and society around you. If you are born in Mexico or Spain, you are most likely to be raised as a Catholic Christian and be convinced of its truth by your parents and society around you. If you are born in Iran or Persia or Saudi Arabia or Iraq (etc.), you are most likely to be raised as a Muslim and be convinced of its truth by your parents and society around you. And if you are born in America, you are likely to be raised as some form of Christian (Catholic, Protestant, etc.) and be convinced of its truth by your parents and society around you. Because of this pattern, most of us are not really ever “reasoned” into our faith...we are raised into it. Even if we are not born into a religious family, it is very easy to become religious when most of society around you is already religious. There’s always a feeling of being the one “left out” of the group if you are one of the few non-religious out of everyone around you, and that makes it easier to “convert” to one of many religions if you are persuaded by those who are sincere.

 

There are a whole lot of implications that go along with that realization above, that I won’t get into here. But just to show you an example: I was raised as a Christian and have never known a time that I was NOT a Christian, until now. I was surrounded by believing friends, family, schoolmates, you name it. Partly because of the fact that my social circles were so permeated and inundated with a certain kind of belief, I was rationally and emotionally invested in it from the beginning because “belief” equated “reality”. That “reality” came to manifest itself in what seemed to be tangible ways. My parents and my sister know, you can ask them. I know the struggle of wanting to do right before God, wanting to have deep faith in God, crying out in prayer after prayer to God for all manner of things, feeling the “joy of salvation” at the thought of Jesus my Savior because of God’s grace, knowing in my heart of hearts that my destiny was with the eternal God of the universe at the end of my lifetime, loving the fellowship of fellow “brothers and sisters” in Christ, and much more. The “fruit” of my life as a Christian was there for all to see.

 

I say all that to make sure it is known that I have not tried in the past, and am not trying now, to fake anyone out. I was a true, genuine Christian. I believed, I was invested, I was “all in”. But I am not a Christian any longer, and I want to make known that the reasons for this change are legitimate and real, and not because of a perceived “rebellious” attitude toward a specific god.

 

Please understand that my being an atheist does not mean that I am any of the following: a Satanist, pagan, Wiccan, witch, warlock, KKK member, Scientologist, or any other such thing. Atheists come in all sorts of colors and backgrounds, like any group of people or religion out there - conservative, liberal, moderate, quiet, militant, shy, brash, funny, serious, skinny, fat, black, white, brown, red, and so on. Atheists are just people of all walks of life who don’t subscribe to any particular religious faith or deity. Over the course of my life, I have rejected all manner of other gods and religious faith systems; once I gave Christianity a fair shake, applying the same skeptical examination of its claims and source documents as I would of any other religion, I rejected it as well. You may have heard this before, but as a Christian I was atheistic in every sense of the word when it came to all other faiths and religions (by rejecting their claims and denying their deities). Only now, at this juncture, I have just run to the full end of this line of logic and reasoning by disbelieving in the specific deity and faith of Christianity.

 

I think it would take WAY too long for this blog post to go over all the items that went into my decision. Fortunately, there are a great many resources that I have made use of over this time. If you are interested in following the trail of resources I have used in my journey, to better understand where I am coming from and with what reasons I am rejecting Christianity, the following links / videos / books have been very helpful in laying out the issues (the “deconversion” videos are especially interesting, as it allows you to see what others like me have gone through in their thinking and reasoning when they “deconverted” from Christianity). I would encourage you to peruse these materials at your leisure, because altogether they present a grand showcase of reasons why I can no longer profess the Christian (or any) religious faith:

 

Articles / Websites:

1) http://www.bidstrup.com/Bible.htm - The Bible and Christianity: The Historical Origins

2) http://agnosticreview.com/index.html - Agnostic Review of Christianity

3) http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm - The Jesus Puzzle: Historical Jesus or Jesus Myth

4) http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html - Early Christian Writings (a very good resource for, among other things, seeing all the different views of Jesus, faith, disputes over Scripture / canon, etc.)

5) http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/index.php - The Origin of Christianity in the Essenes

6) http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ - Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?

7) http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/ - The Thinking Atheist

8) http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ - Jesus Never Existed (interesting take on the historicity of Jesus)

9) http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/ - The Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: A Skeptic’s Guide to Christianity (also in book form found below)

10) http://skepticsannotatedBible.com/ - Skeptic’s Annotated Bible

 

Videos / YouTube Channels:

1)

- Why I Am No Longer a Christian (a series of videos taking us through the “why” and “how” of Christian deconversion...one of the best video series I’ve found on the subject, as it covers a wide range of topics)

2)

- Part 1 of a Transition to Atheism: Atheism as Congruence

3)

- Part 2 of a Transition to Atheism

4)

- Part 3 of a Transition to Atheism: No True Scotsman Fallacy (addresses the argument that I must not have ever been a “true” Christian)

5) http://www.youtube.com/user/TheraminTrees/videos - The 3 Parts above come from this user’s YouTube Channel, which is full of great videos

6)

- My Deconversion Part 1: Everybody is Born an Atheist

7)

- My Deconversion Part 2: My Pillars of Faith

8)

- My Deconversion Part 3: Prayer, Miracles, and Superstition

9)

- My Deconversion Part 4: Lack of Scientific Understanding

10)

- My Deconversion Part 5(a): Morality Introduction

11)

- Series of videos on the Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism

12) http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54/videos - All of his videos are great...

13) http://www.youtube.com/user/Potholer54debunks/videos - ...as are the videos from his other YouTube channel

14) http://www.youtube.com/user/QualiaSoup/videos - Another great YouTube Channel

15)

- The Thinking Atheist videos

 

Books:

1) http://amzn.com/0578003880 - Why I Believed: Reflections of a Former Missionary

2) http://amzn.com/1591025923 - Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity

3) http://amzn.com/1616141689 - The God Delusion: Why Faith Fails

4) http://amzn.com/1616144130 - The End of Christiantiy

5) http://amzn.com/1569756775 - Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America’s Leading Atheists

5) http://amzn.com/1578840058 - The Case Against The Case for Christ

6) http://amzn.com/0060859512 - Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why

7) http://amzn.com/0061173940 - Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don’t Know About Them)

8) http://amzn.com/0062012614 - Forged: Writing in the Name of God - Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are

9) http://amzn.com/B004O6MSY2 - The Rejection of Pascal’s Wager: A Skeptic’s Guide to Christianity (Kindle Edition, much cheaper than the book form)

10) http://amzn.com/B003XVZC24 - Not The Impossible Faith: Why Christianity Didn’t Need a Miracle to Succeed

11) http://amzn.com/0345384563 - A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam

 

Just to be clear: this whole post is not an apology. I am not at all ashamed at having come to this point in my life, of rejecting something that I once believed after having studied the issue. That is what I would encourage all of my readers to do: study these issues for yourself. Everyone here, I would believe, is an adult capable of looking into issues such as these, and capable of deciding that the pursuit of absolute truth is a cause worthy of time and attention.

 

No longer do I wish to automatically “assume” conclusions about our world based on preconceived religious principles, without first actually studying the issue out thoroughly. I will strive, as a natural skeptic, to find out Truth about what we see and hear and feel around us, no matter if Truth blows away what I previously thought about something. I am now choosing to follow the rational, logical method of determining what is going on presently and what went on in the past:

• ask questions
  
• do some background research
  
• form a hypothesis
  
• perform experiments to test
  
• analyze the results and draw a conclusion (true or false hypothesis)
  
• if the hypothesis is true, report the results for peer review (the experiments and results should be able to be duplicated by others); if the hypothesis is false, go back to step 3.
  

 

What I described above is known simply as the “Scientific Method”.

 

Question everything. Even evolutionary theory. Question it, do research, look at the multiple hypotheses, look at the huge number of experiments and testing and correcting that has been done over the last 200 or more years, etc., etc. Question why it is called a “theory”, and don’t just assume - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory. Never take anything for granted, especially belief in the supernatural. Question your belief in the supernatural. You may be surprised at where that road leads you to. I was once told to “keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.” I would like to tweak that statement somewhat: “Keep an open mind: not so open that your brain falls out, and not so closed that you let it suffocate and die.” Here is a cool video on Open-Mindedness:

 

I did not mean for this post to grow into this enormous length. I guess it is not surprising, given that I have written this over a period of several weeks, due to the importance of the subject. Because of everything this implies, because of what may transpire after I publish this, I ask for your patience, kindness, sensitivity, and a willingness to consider the issues. As opposed to wanting to debate anyone outright, I think we can all appreciate dialogue, conversations, and sincere questions when performed with cool heads and open minds.

 

Let me emphasize here again something that is extremely important: I am NOT your enemy. I am still Jeremy, the one you know from school, or church, or work, or know in a more personal sense as your son, your husband, your father, your nephew, your grandson, your brother, your uncle, your friend. I do not think we should make enemies of anyone based on their intangible beliefs or their non-belief. Rather, we should regard each other by how we treat one another. This will be evident by how we love each other; how we laugh, cry, and converse with one another; how we comfort each other through the rough times and how we rejoice in the good times; how we help each other through difficulties and how we share our abundance with one another.

 

I would like to end this very long post by saying that I appreciate you all, very much. We all assume that what we believe with our heart of hearts is the truth, and we all feel something in the pit of our stomach when those beliefs are questioned. Upon encountering that feeling, it is natural for us by instinct to drop into “fight or flight” mode, because we are considering the unknown. I know, I was there for a long time. At some point, though, I had to confront my fears and let bias melt away to open-minded critical consideration of my previously-held beliefs. That road led to my rejection of those beliefs. But I would like you to know again that I, Jeremy, am still me. And I hope to continue to stay your true friend, your beloved relative, your trusted confidante, regardless of my lack of belief in a particular god. Life is too short to fight each other over particularities, especially unseen deities. And I truly want the rest of my life filled with you: family, friends, loved-ones, young, old, rich, poor, black, white, religious, non-religious...just plain humans.

 

Thank you all for your valuable time.

 

 

Jeremy

[ConureDelSol]

My guess is you have a lot of people to come out to! Honestly, I'm only concerned with coming out to my parents, so I probably won't "blogbook" (I just made that up, clever isn't it?) my letter. I think you got your point across well without sounding condescending or insulting in any manner. I'm sure the first thing you will be up against is the wave of friends and family commenting with Pascal's Wager. Perhaps you might want to mention why you aren't concerned about Hell? It may help to explain where your thoughts are now. Otherwise, fantastic job!

[Akheia]

Sensitively written and I like all the linkies!

 

I agree with Conure--I remember a lot of Pascal's Wager floating around when I finally stopped going to church. That's your call though. I hope the audience reading this blog entry takes it as kindly as you meant it.

[sarahinprogress]

This was very well thought out and written, my only thought is that the AMOUNT of references you've put in might overwhelm your family + friends. Not really a criticism, since i think it's necessary for them to see just how much time and thought went into your deconversion, but I might think about making acomment that you aren't trying to blindside them with information or something.

 

That said, *I* am going to start watching some of these video right now!

I wish you luck and strength in sharing this with your family!

[electech98]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I'm hoping that the reference to the book and website "The Rejection of Pascal's Wager" will take care of some of those objections that come my way. There are a good many other resources / videos I could link to that would serve to address almost every single argument I can think of that people might bring up, but the letter was getting very long as it was and I certainly don't want to overwhelm people more than I already am going to. I think I will wait for arguments to come in, and then probably write a follow-up blog post on those arguments and the answers to them. That way I can address specific things like, "You are going to hell", "You just want to worship yourself", "The wisdom of the world will be made to fall", "The Bible doesn't contradict itself, you are just reading contradictions into it", etc.

 

Thanks again, and I welcome more comments!

[MrsRoper]

Great job! You could always separate the references as an additional blog post

[♦ nivek ♦]

electech,

 

"Too damn much information" for a Coming Out letter.

 

Wonderful supporting material while giving buttress for your leaving their religious foundations. Most peoplle will read first paragraph, maybe two or three and leave rest to rot. "OMFG! BillyBob quit goin' to church! Gotta pray for him, an' bring his ass back!!!"

 

Seriously man, no matter what education level or other attainments in life, few folks will wade through your tome. First few paragraphs need to map your direction, let folks know why, and what you are doing with your life.

 

Electronic storage is inexpensive via your blog. Suggest strongly you send an abbreviated note out IF that is what you feel you need to. Remember strongly that anything you put into any public venue is "forever", your people, friends, relations, enemies will have pages and pages of ammunition to use against you whenever it is convenient to do so.

 

Shorten, summarize, simplify a short introduction to your dis belief and de conversion. The rest of your info looks and quickly looking through it is great.

Nothing you cause to be publicized past "I am no longer a believer" is going to be comprehended at first.

 

I suggest from first hand experience to not shoot all your ammunition in this the first serious round in a major change of direction in life.

 

Welcome to ExC, think you will find a spot with many Fellow Travelers to share your journey with.

 

kevinL

[electech98]

Thanks for the suggestions, Kevin. I will be continually rechecking the letter over the several days for ways to optimize / shorten it, to make my points better. There's a tendency in me, through my whole life as a believer, to want things explained thoroughly and thoughtfully...I've always hated short, blunt, hard statements without much thought for the emotional state of the reader, so I think I tend to err on the "expository" side rather than on "short and sweet". But I'll see what I can do, because it IS a long letter.

[Zephie]

I read your letter and thought it was really well thought out although I do echo the sentiments of the above posters about length. If I was still a Christian I would shit my pants after the first few paragraphs. The references are great and I've read/watched some of them already. That being said, you are incredibly brave and show integrity. Does your wife know yet? I would think she would need to know first. Also maybe putting ahead of everything else the fact that you are the same person before you make your annoucement. Just my two cents.

[electech98]

My wife does not know yet, and I will not be putting up this letter until I talk to her first. The plan is to talk to her first, let it sink in for a day or so, and then put up the letter as I see fit. I may want to talk to a few other people first after my wife, before putting up the letter. That depends on how the talk with the wife goes.

[Zaphod]

I love this. I would steal this for my own coming out, but my name isn't Jeremy, so I can't.

[Zaphod]

Also, if you're comfortable sharing with us, I'll be watching to see how things go with your wife. Good luck to you.

[blackpudd1n]

I love the letter. My advice would be to leave it as it is. The reason I say that, is because some people will only read a little bit of it, whereas others will read through the whole thing, and then check out the references. Regardless of whether someone skims the letter, or reads it all the way through, the message is still the same: yes, I've lost my faith, but I'm still the same guy, and I still want to have you all in my life.

 

Some people will want to know the whole story. The ones who want to know the full story are likely to also be the ones who will listen, hear you out, and quite possibly take a look at their own faith. Leave it as it is. It's good.

[electech98]

Wow blackpudd1n, that is very insightful...thank you for your input! I know I can't please everyone, so maybe it is better to leave it up to the reader how much they want to read and understand, and not worry about if it is too long. Maybe erring on the side of more length will be good in the end, for those who really want to understand.

 

Also, Zaphod, you are welcome to use as much of it as you want (with the exception of the personal backstory, unless you are somehow my doppelganger figuratively speaking ), as I think we could all benefit from sharing with each other our resources, reasonings, use of logic, etc. Good luck to you!

[blackpudd1n]

Wow blackpudd1n, that is very insightful...thank you for your input! I know I can't please everyone, so maybe it is better to leave it up to the reader how much they want to read and understand, and not worry about if it is too long. Maybe erring on the side of more length will be good in the end, for those who really want to understand.

 

Well, people are only going to read what they want to. It's not a book, and I think you've sectioned it up well. I'd let the reader make up their mind about how much they will read, myself. And if anyone decided to give you a hard time, my advice would be to refer them back to the letter once more. Tell them to read it again.

 

I personally feel, though, that the people who will read all of your letter will be the ones either closest to you, the most open-minded, or the ones with their own quiet doubts. For the ones with their own quiet doubts, your letter could be invaluable.

[Unbound]

I think this is great. I've bookmarked this page so I can go back and visit the links.

[2Honest]

I agree w/those who said to leave it as-is. I also err on the side of over-explaining b/c I anticipate the reaction of the reader. I think that's what you've done here and I think it's a good thing. You've covered all angles and responded to questions/objections before they are raised. I agree w/Pudd, people will read however much of it they want to read. Those who are more open-minded will follow the links and hopefully gain some knowledge for themselves. And I think it shows that this was not a decision you took lightly. I guarantee that you've put more thought, time and research into your belief system than any of the believers who read it. That says a lot.

 

I, too, am bookmarking so I can go back and check out your links. Great job!

 

2H

[★ Citsonga ★]

Great letter! Good luck with outing yourself.

 

Though I am familiar with several of the links, a few are new to me, so they could come in handy for me too. By the way, the guy behind the Agnostic Review of Christianity site is a regular on this board, going by the name centauri. Great stuff.

 

As far as Pascal's Wager, my only comment regarding having a link or two about it is that, as far as I can tell, the majority of people who use Pascal's Wager don't have a clue that that's what it's called. As such, unless they actually click the link and read up on the mysterious term "Pascal's Wager," many of them probably won't realize that you've addressed it.

 

Anyway, good job. Let us know when it's posted on your blog, and of course how thing go with your family.

[electech98]

Great letter! Good luck with outing yourself.

 

Though I am familiar with several of the links, a few are new to me, so they could come in handy for me too. By the way, the guy behind the Agnostic Review of Christianity site is a regular on this board, going by the name centauri. Great stuff.

 

As far as Pascal's Wager, my only comment regarding having a link or two about it is that, as far as I can tell, the majority of people who use Pascal's Wager don't have a clue that that's what it's called. As such, unless they actually click the link and read up on the mysterious term "Pascal's Wager," many of them probably won't realize that you've addressed it.

 

Anyway, good job. Let us know when it's posted on your blog, and of course how thing go with your family.

Yeah...the thing about the book and site about The Rejection of Pascal's Wager, though, is that the book and site barely even touch on the philosophical rejection of the Wager itself, and they both focus a TON more on critical-historical reviews of the texts of the Bible and the claims that Christians make. Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc. An entire book merely dealing with the rejection of Pascal's Wager on the philosophical end would bore me to tears! This is much more about the nitty-gritty rejection of the concept of the Bible being the "Word of God".

[★ Citsonga ★]

Yeah...the thing about the book and site about The Rejection of Pascal's Wager, though, is that the book and site barely even touch on the philosophical rejection of the Wager itself, and they both focus a TON more on critical-historical reviews of the texts of the Bible and the claims that Christians make. Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc. An entire book merely dealing with the rejection of Pascal's Wager on the philosophical end would bore me to tears! This is much more about the nitty-gritty rejection of the concept of the Bible being the "Word of God".

 

Indeed, a whole book solely on "Pascal's Wager" would be a bit overkill. I'll check out at least the site that you referenced, and perhaps eventually the book as well.

 

Speaking of a coming-out letter and the fact that there are "Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc." in the Bible, you may find the letter I sent my parents last year to be interesting. Considering what all you appear to have studied, there probably isn't much (if anything) in it that you aren't already aware of. However, considering that some here have said that your letter was too long, let me say that the letter I sent my parents was much, much longer (49 pages!). Of course, it wasn't posted as a blog or sent to a slew of people, and it was in response to my parents finding out that I had stopped going to church, but I still laid out in no uncertain terms why I cannot believe anymore. If you'd like to take a look at what I wrote them, feel free to download it from post #13 in this thread: http://www.ex-christ...__fromsearch__1

 

Anyway, what I really appreciated about your letter is that it not only provided references for investigating the evidence, but you were also abundantly clear that you were not attacking your religious family.

[electech98]

Yeah...the thing about the book and site about The Rejection of Pascal's Wager, though, is that the book and site barely even touch on the philosophical rejection of the Wager itself, and they both focus a TON more on critical-historical reviews of the texts of the Bible and the claims that Christians make. Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc. An entire book merely dealing with the rejection of Pascal's Wager on the philosophical end would bore me to tears! This is much more about the nitty-gritty rejection of the concept of the Bible being the "Word of God".

 

Indeed, a whole book solely on "Pascal's Wager" would be a bit overkill. I'll check out at least the site that you referenced, and perhaps eventually the book as well.

 

Speaking of a coming-out letter and the fact that there are "Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc." in the Bible, you may find the letter I sent my parents last year to be interesting. Considering what all you appear to have studied, there probably isn't much (if anything) in it that you aren't already aware of. However, considering that some here have said that your letter was too long, let me say that the letter I sent my parents was much, much longer (49 pages!). Of course, it wasn't posted as a blog or sent to a slew of people, and it was in response to my parents finding out that I had stopped going to church, but I still laid out in no uncertain terms why I cannot believe anymore. If you'd like to take a look at what I wrote them, feel free to download it from post #13 in this thread: http://www.ex-christ...__fromsearch__1

 

Anyway, what I really appreciated about your letter is that it not only provided references for investigating the evidence, but you were also abundantly clear that you were not attacking your religious family.

Uh, WOW!

 

That letter was amazing. Thank you so much for posting that.

 

Is it possible that I may use the main body of your letter (leaving out the personal references, etc.) as another resource, with all due credit? Your letter very nicely puts together an incredible summary of why I lost faith, and it seems you and I have probably read many of the same books and sources!

 

You could also probably publish a website with much of that information, as you have neatly-labeled sections and such that would make it easy to follow your outline.

 

In the main, though, I know I would be interested in using your letter to send to my in-laws, since my wife's dad is a pastor in our denomination and his wife is very outspoken for their faith. I just know, especially because they live out of state, that personal contact will be limited when I make my atheism known to them, so there will be a lot of emailing back and forth for sure. I think using your letter with all the points you made will go a LONG way in explaining all the issues I myself have with the Bible.

 

If you don't agree, I completely understand...but I hope you agree!!

 

Thanks again, Citsonga!

[sarahinprogress]

 

Yeah...the thing about the book and site about The Rejection of Pascal's Wager, though, is that the book and site barely even touch on the philosophical rejection of the Wager itself, and they both focus a TON more on critical-historical reviews of the texts of the Bible and the claims that Christians make. Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc. An entire book merely dealing with the rejection of Pascal's Wager on the philosophical end would bore me to tears! This is much more about the nitty-gritty rejection of the concept of the Bible being the "Word of God".

 

Indeed, a whole book solely on "Pascal's Wager" would be a bit overkill. I'll check out at least the site that you referenced, and perhaps eventually the book as well.

 

Speaking of a coming-out letter and the fact that there are "Errors, contradictions, bad use of supposed Old Testament prophecies, etc." in the Bible, you may find the letter I sent my parents last year to be interesting. Considering what all you appear to have studied, there probably isn't much (if anything) in it that you aren't already aware of. However, considering that some here have said that your letter was too long, let me say that the letter I sent my parents was much, much longer (49 pages!). Of course, it wasn't posted as a blog or sent to a slew of people, and it was in response to my parents finding out that I had stopped going to church, but I still laid out in no uncertain terms why I cannot believe anymore. If you'd like to take a look at what I wrote them, feel free to download it from post #13 in this thread: http://www.ex-christ...__fromsearch__1

 

Anyway, what I really appreciated about your letter is that it not only provided references for investigating the evidence, but you were also abundantly clear that you were not attacking your religious family.

Im reading this letter right now, Citsonga, and finding it very helpful in grappling with the bible questions that have started coming up for me

[★ Citsonga ★]

Uh, WOW!

 

That letter was amazing. Thank you so much for posting that.

 

Is it possible that I may use the main body of your letter (leaving out the personal references, etc.) as another resource, with all due credit? Your letter very nicely puts together an incredible summary of why I lost faith, and it seems you and I have probably read many of the same books and sources!

 

You could also probably publish a website with much of that information, as you have neatly-labeled sections and such that would make it easy to follow your outline.

 

In the main, though, I know I would be interested in using your letter to send to my in-laws, since my wife's dad is a pastor in our denomination and his wife is very outspoken for their faith. I just know, especially because they live out of state, that personal contact will be limited when I make my atheism known to them, so there will be a lot of emailing back and forth for sure. I think using your letter with all the points you made will go a LONG way in explaining all the issues I myself have with the Bible.

 

If you don't agree, I completely understand...but I hope you agree!!

 

Thanks again, Citsonga!

 

Sure, if using it as another reference would be helpful, then feel free to. Thanks for the kudos, and good luck with everything.

[electech98]

Uh, WOW!

 

That letter was amazing. Thank you so much for posting that.

 

Is it possible that I may use the main body of your letter (leaving out the personal references, etc.) as another resource, with all due credit? Your letter very nicely puts together an incredible summary of why I lost faith, and it seems you and I have probably read many of the same books and sources!

 

You could also probably publish a website with much of that information, as you have neatly-labeled sections and such that would make it easy to follow your outline.

 

In the main, though, I know I would be interested in using your letter to send to my in-laws, since my wife's dad is a pastor in our denomination and his wife is very outspoken for their faith. I just know, especially because they live out of state, that personal contact will be limited when I make my atheism known to them, so there will be a lot of emailing back and forth for sure. I think using your letter with all the points you made will go a LONG way in explaining all the issues I myself have with the Bible.

 

If you don't agree, I completely understand...but I hope you agree!!

 

Thanks again, Citsonga!

 

Sure, if using it as another reference would be helpful, then feel free to. Thanks for the kudos, and good luck with everything.

I'm thinking it might be good to combine elements of our coming out letters into a single document that could be added to / edited over time, as a good resource for others to use in crafting their own...or they could use the document as something to give to people who are curious or are questioning their motives for deconverting. Any thoughts on that?

[★ Citsonga ★]

I'm thinking it might be good to combine elements of our coming out letters into a single document that could be added to / edited over time, as a good resource for others to use in crafting their own...or they could use the document as something to give to people who are curious or are questioning their motives for deconverting. Any thoughts on that?

 

I've thought about adding more to it from time to time, maybe eventually even considering publishing whatever it grows into. I do have a separate file where I have corrected a couple typos that were left in the version I sent my parents, and it also has a couple minor details added. If you have some specific suggestions in mind, feel free to PM me and we'll see where it goes.